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3 hours ago, (PS4)creativedsign said:

No matter what we do or say.

DE will not listen and do whatever they wanna do. Always. 

Its almost like they own the game isnt it?

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9 hours ago, Chronozilla said:

Does logging in really count as playing though?, i can imagine most people just start up the game to get their counter up and close it afterwards, that doesn't really confer as loyalty to me. player count is important, but if everybody logging in are just slaves to the system, is that really okay?

I respect that you guys at 900+ days want everybody else to sit through the wait like you did, but a system like that is extremely disheartening to new players, or old players that ended up missing some days. The functional items should be readily available without waiting for years, whether that be through moving them somewhere else than the login system or adding a catch-up mechanic to the system.

The cosmetics can stay at high numbers though, they don't contribute to actual gameplay and i think everybody closing in on them or already possessing them would appreciate being able to show off that kind of long term non-essential prestige.

 

Well considering how steam measures the game time based on how much time it's been open versus DE measuring how much you've played I'd say yes it does play an important role at least on steam. 

So what would you replace those missing items with between 0-800 days (note I actually want the cosmetics to stay where they are purely for the reason they took so long to get), not to mention the compensation we'd (well I know I would and forma/riven mods wouldn't cut it) be expecting at higher login counts if things were changed so the time spent logging in daily is basically wasted and for no reason when a newbie can get it after a few hours farming or a quick purchase of some plat...  If you leave the cosmetics at 800 and 1000 days you'd then get people going, why do I need to wait 800 days and 1000 days to get said cosmetics when I can get the other items from reward table without any effort. 

Lets be realistic, if they change the system so that 'it's easy to get the items' to satisfy the 'instant gratification' playerbase they're basically screwing over the people who have spent the time getting them and that won't go down well imo.  The changes being proposed, while I don't see any reason for them, is a 'fair' compromise for those that have had no other option but to sit through in some cases nearly 1000 days to get their items. 

I'd be fine with 'login rewards' being changed so that the major rewards are given out at 'time played' intervals (based on DE time in game,not steam) as long as they're at high enough numbers to respect the '1000' days some of us have spent working on login rewards, but DE aren't going to do that sort of rework (which ironically would fix the issue with original players who had a break and came back and now have missing days) and I'd expect DE to screw the pooch and make it so the hours needed to get the items were focused at newbies anyway because that seems to be their focus these days.

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Coming back to Warframe after a couple of years and seeing this stupid system was almost enough to make me reconsider. A gear wall that cannot be surpassed except for logins is effectively punishing people for not logging in. I had played the game from beta for a few years, but clearly I picked the wrong few years according to this system. Cosmetics and other non gameplay effecting things should certainly be behind the login wall, but to have exclusive weapons and mods is just dumb. 

There should be an alternative means to acquiring the stuff which has a direct effect on actually playing the game...or really just do away with that aspect of the login system. I am unaware of any other game which blocks players from accessing parts of the game for years and there's a very good reason for that (I'd say it's obvious, but maybe it isn't to DE): it's a bad idea that doesn't help anyone. 

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5 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Actually if you were a real vet then the entire login system would still upset you since you lost all that time you played prior to it being added since DE gave you nothing for that time. Don't tell me you weren't around back then?

 I'm a PS4 vet so we didn't lose much since system lunched a bit later then PC ... I'm almost at 950 logins. 

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vor 36 Minuten schrieb plznohurtme:

Coming back to Warframe after a couple of years and seeing this stupid system was almost enough to make me reconsider. A gear wall that cannot be surpassed except for logins is effectively punishing people for not logging in. I had played the game from beta for a few years, but clearly I picked the wrong few years according to this system. Cosmetics and other non gameplay effecting things should certainly be behind the login wall, but to have exclusive weapons and mods is just dumb. 

There should be an alternative means to acquiring the stuff which has a direct effect on actually playing the game...or really just do away with that aspect of the login system. I am unaware of any other game which blocks players from accessing parts of the game for years and there's a very good reason for that (I'd say it's obvious, but maybe it isn't to DE): it's a bad idea that doesn't help anyone. 

We are talking about 0.6% of the available weapons and that percentage is shrinking...

Also how many games have items that latecomers have no chance to get at all? Here at least you can get these items

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1 minute ago, (PS4)creativedsign said:

Its almost like they dont need players to make money right? 

I'm pretty sure the games more popular than it has ever been, so apparently they're doing something right

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1 minute ago, Sahansral said:

We are talking about 0.6% of the available weapons and that percentage is shrinking...

Also how many games have items that latecomers have no chance to get at all? Here at least you can get these items

I have to agree. There should be vet exclusive weapons, something for new players to be motivated and keep on playing the game. Why are we trying to give everything to everyone only because they r whining that they want it asap. This just doesn't make sense plus I understand if we would be taking about Amazing weapons. 

Azima - blah, zenistar - bad melee weapon and only semi useful as CC but still we got better melee weapons not locked behind logins, zenith - good weapon but we got better primaries, sigma - special mechanic is broken, targeting is off and most of the time won't even stun An enemy, dmg is blah. And primed mods ... Most of them sucks, only two of them is semi useful, but we r talking about primed - so not new player friendly since u need around what 30-40k endo to level that sucker up for a super small buff. And again 90% of the time we r fighting Lil 20-40 enemies, and any and all of our weapons can handle that... Pointless to run around with weapons who can one shot lvl 150 enemy coz we don't have content for it ...

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6 minutes ago, Nighteyezzz said:

I'm pretty sure the games more popular than it has ever been, so apparently they're doing something right

Considering that 80% of my gamer friends never even heard of it. 10% played it for a week and quit coz they couldn't get into it coz de is not providing enough beginner player guidance, and 10% who still playing are unhappy with they direction. Sure! New games which are being release gaining a larger player base in months then WF after all this years so yeah... Sure let me "agree" with u. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)creativedsign said:

Considering that 80% of my gamer friends never even heard of it. 10% played it for a week and quit coz they couldn't get into it coz de is not providing enough beginner player guidance, and 10% who still playing are unhappy with they direction. Sure! New games which are being release gaining a larger player base in months then WF after all this years so yeah... Sure let me "agree" with u. 

If you look at the data on Steam it is consistently in the top 10 and average quarterly numbers always growing. Your group of friends isn't a good sample size

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)creativedsign said:

Considering that 80% of my gamer friends never even heard of it. 10% played it for a week and quit coz they couldn't get into it coz de is not providing enough beginner player guidance, and 10% who still playing are unhappy with they direction. Sure! New games which are being release gaining a larger player base in months then WF after all this years so yeah... Sure let me "agree" with u. 

People have tastes and many say *insert game genre here* are not for everyone.

I cant find Overwatch or Paladins fun. Nor Fortnite nor PUBG. Friends I have also agree with me. Does that mean the games are unpopular? No. Its just not our cup of tea.

And now you doomsay, they said the same in 2014.

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5 hours ago, Zanchak said:

This is just wrong on so many levels, and it has nothing to do with the "shineys" and everything to do with players who have dedicated their time to your game.

I'm not dismissing the fact that simply logging in takes no skill, to get that little arguement out of the way before it's beaten like a dead horse again.

When this system was implemented, players saw how it worked and went, "ok, we do this, we get this reward" - and that's what they did - for YEARS. These are players who have supported the game - for YEARS. Most people who have done this for YEARS have the mission hours to match.

Enter 2017/18. People rush literally everything, hit top rank in a few months and then are upset they can't have something that someone else put 800/900/1000 days into getting and BAM - they get spoon fed. Again. Total lack of consideration or respect shown for anyone who did what was set out in front of them to earn said rewards before.

Nothing is being spoon fed to THOSE older players to show, hey these people dedicated their time to us. Nope, just spoon fed to people who have rushed your game in their drive to have "everything" ASAP.

It honestly feels like nothing anyone put in before the PoE invasion of players matters. It feels like only the new wave of players get your consideration in anything. The loudest ones. Nerf this Nerf that booo I cant get the best killrate every single time cause this person who spent thousands of hours to mod everything well kills stuff I cant kill with my broken mods after 14 days. Just one fine example of what happens on a regular basis now.

It needs to stop. People with mission hours, and time spent supporting your work NEED your consideration. Please.

Cheers

Well said! Couldn't agree more! DE is focusing too much on pleasing they new players and absolutely ignoring vets who actually dedicated thousands of playtime hours and supported this game fir years. We got nothing to proudly own and wear besides a number of played hours. DE gotta start appreciating and rewarding vets. 

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2 minutes ago, Nighteyezzz said:

If you look at the data on Steam it is consistently in the top 10 and average quarterly numbers always growing. Your group of friends isn't a good sample size

I didn't say they r a good sample. U know what's not a good sample? #1 game out there with a player base 10+ time larger then WF and not even 1 y.o. game Fortnite. Free to play MMOs always gonna be high on the list coz they r free and all them squeakers who can't spend all they lunch money on buying games download it and keeping it at top 10 considering highly rotating player base most of won't reach pass MR15... Vets are the spine here! 

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Ok so when is this gonna drop? I'm like 17 days away from what will be with this change a log in weapon instead of a primed mod. I dont want to avoid logging in a playing just so i dont miss out on a new weapon because if i was to choose i would rather have one of the log in weapons than primed vigor.

 

So hows this gonna work? I really need to know.

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5 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

People have tastes and many say *insert game genre here* are not for everyone.

I cant find Overwatch or Paladins fun. Nor Fortnite nor PUBG. Friends I have also agree with me. Does that mean the games are unpopular? No. Its just not our cup of tea.

And now you doomsay, they said the same in 2014.

I agree, I am not a bug fan of PVP based games But we r talking here not about genre, but about appreciation of them dedicated players who supported the game for years but Dev spitting in all vets faces by trying to please new players over vets. OK let me ask this ... Let's say u r a new player, now this system will allow u to say F to sucky azima and get zenith right away which vets had to wait for almost 2 years of logins to get. They now have an Option what to get. Vets who are hovering around 900+ days like me still locked to just getting One item , whatever is next, we got no options. Unless DE will release about 50+ more other daily rewards vets can choose from. 

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14 hours ago, LSG501 said:

To be fair though (I'm mr25 for reference), it's not as though the mods given via login are game breaking or 'you must use them'.  I could understand the argument if it was something like primed continuity or primed flow where there is a clear benefit to using them but lets be real here, primed shred, primed fury and primed vigor are hardly 'needed' items in any build. 

Some would argue primed shred is a downgrade due to ammo usage, primed fury is easily replaced with berserker and primed vigor is only really useful if you need extra shields because you can pretty much match it's health using a gladiator resolve for less capacity (it's only about 200 health difference on inaros where it would have the biggest difference).  Plus it's not like most high MR players run with shields in their builds (obviously exceptions) anyway because we know they're pretty useless (yes DE we're still waiting on that shield rework...), especially against aura's. 

Then we have that mod I'm sure everyone is going to use on their builds when they get it, primed sure footed.... I only got the non prime a few months back after over 2 years playing the game and I've never seen a need to use that let alone a primed version, hell I'm not even going to waste the endo or credits levelling it when I eventually get it. 

Oh and I'm not even going to go into how rivens can outclass the weapon primed mods from login rewards on the right weapons. 

No one cares about ammo economy since carrier changes and primed fury doesnt replace berserker because both stack multiplicative.

And you stack rivens with primed mods. Dont get me wrong but you dont understand alot of those things.

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Please stop putting exclusive mods and weapons into the most insane time-gate system that has no catch-up possibility.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)creativedsign said:

I didn't say they r a good sample. U know what's not a good sample? #1 game out there with a player base 10+ time larger then WF and not even 1 y.o. game Fortnite. Free to play MMOs always gonna be high on the list coz they r free and all them squeakers who can't spend all they lunch money on buying games download it and keeping it at top 10 considering highly rotating player base most of won't reach pass MR15... Vets are the spine here! 

You don't have access to the numbers so you're just making stuff up and trying to pass it off as fact, you know who does have access to the numbers? DE and considering they managed to keep the lights on for this many years when so many games have come and gone, I'm going to stick with "their doing something right" 

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)creativedsign said:

Well said! Couldn't agree more! DE is focusing too much on pleasing they new players and absolutely ignoring vets who actually dedicated thousands of playtime hours and supported this game fir years. We got nothing to proudly own and wear besides a number of played hours. DE gotta start appreciating and rewarding vets. 

I'm a relatively new player, and I'm between day 200 and 250. With this proposed system, I'm still going to need to log in for 1000 days (or is it 1100? Will we get a new mod for the day 1000 slot? I hope not) to get all the unique stuff. Since I already have the Azima, I'm still going to stick to pretty much the same order that the old system had. If I were just starting out, I'd pick the Zenistar first, but that's the only, very slight improvement to this new system.

If DE are focusing on pleasing new players with this change, they're failing. If anything, it feels like they changed the original plan (pick anything every 50 days, which would allow you to get the mods and unique gear in 500 days, which is still a significant amount of time) so as to not upset veterans like you. Seems they failed at that too.

 

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23 minutes ago, plato13 said:

No one cares about ammo economy since carrier changes and primed fury doesnt replace berserker because both stack multiplicative.

And you stack rivens with primed mods. Dont get me wrong but you dont understand alot of those things.

LOL.. saying I don't understand the mods when your entire argument basically says 'take carrier' (which ironically is what DE tried to stop with the change to vacuum) and you can stack a riven with another mod (ignoring the fact you first have to have a riven for said weapon...). 

And you know what I never knew that I could only stack a riven with a primed mod for some reason I've been able to stack rivens with non primed mods all this time, I must be doing something wrong because clearly primed mods are the only thing I can stack with a riven mod....oh wait they're not.  Primed mods are clearly essential to builds that use rivens....how could I be so wrong. 🤣

Oh and let me guess... you haven't got the mods, hence why you're trying to make out they're so important...

Edited by LSG501
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4 hours ago, plznohurtme said:

Coming back to Warframe after a couple of years and seeing this stupid system was almost enough to make me reconsider. A gear wall that cannot be surpassed except for logins is effectively punishing people for not logging in. I had played the game from beta for a few years, but clearly I picked the wrong few years according to this system. Cosmetics and other non gameplay effecting things should certainly be behind the login wall, but to have exclusive weapons and mods is just dumb. 

There should be an alternative means to acquiring the stuff which has a direct effect on actually playing the game...or really just do away with that aspect of the login system. I am unaware of any other game which blocks players from accessing parts of the game for years and there's a very good reason for that (I'd say it's obvious, but maybe it isn't to DE): it's a bad idea that doesn't help anyone. 

I think it is obvious to DE, which is why they want to rework it. They've even said in devstreams that they weren't really thinking about what kinds of things they were going to add on day 1000 - it was just a simple reward system when it started out, and it wasn't too bad at day 50, or even 100.

It's pretty obvious to anyone (except maybe the irrationally covetous players who feel "screwed" by someone else getting access to a mod in this non-competitive game?) that this type of system doesn't work once we start getting into years, especially for new and returning players.

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1 hour ago, Nighteyezzz said:

I'm pretty sure the games more popular than it has ever been, so apparently they're doing something right

Yeh. Spoon feeding people who cry the loudest and don't want to wait for anything.

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44 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

LOL.. saying I don't understand the mods when your entire argument basically says 'take carrier' (which ironically is what DE tried to stop with the change to vacuum) and you can stack a riven with another mod (ignoring the fact you first have to have a riven for said weapon...). 

And you know what I never knew that I could only stack a riven with a primed mod for some reason I've been able to stack rivens with non primed mods all this time, I must be doing something wrong because clearly primed mods are the only thing I can stack with a riven mod....oh wait they're not.  Primed mods are clearly essential to builds that use rivens....how could I be so wrong. 🤣

Oh and let me guess... you haven't got the mods, hence why you're trying to make out they're so important...

You disqualified yourself as a reasonable person.

Most weapons dont need carrier with a firerate mod, the few wich do so can use carrier. Also punch through arguably doubles your ammo efficiency since you hit multiple enemies at once.

Also mods scale exponentialy with how the multipliers work thats why you cant compare riven + non primed vs riven + primed mods. Shred is a Rifle Mod and every rifle has a spare mod slot after modding serration, split chamber, 2x ele, riven and both crit mods. Even more open slots on non crit weapons, making Shred/Primed Shred a worthwhile addition to almost every rifle.

You are just trying to twist my words but failing. Obviously you profit from the status quo and are an apologist, unable to grasp the actual problem here wich power gated behind multiple years of logging in.

Edited by plato13
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6 minutes ago, plato13 said:

You disqualified yourself as a reasonable person.

Most weapons dont need carrier with a firerate mod, the few wich do so can use carrier. Also punch through arguably doubles your ammo efficiency since you hit multiple enemies at once.

Also mods scale exponentialy with how the multipliers work thats why you cant compare riven + non primed vs riven + primed mods. Shred is a Rifle Mod and every rifle has a spare mod slot after modding serration, split chamber, 2x ele, riven and both crit mods. Even more open slots on non crit weapons, making Shred/Primed Shred a worthwhile addition to almost every rifle.

You really are getting desperate now aren't you....  everything you've said there does not show the mods as being ESSENTIAL, I have never disputed they are a stronger version (not always a positive as I said earlier) so trying to change your argument to that direction isn't going to work....

 

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