Log in Dailies: Rerevisited.

[(XBOX)KoricZ]

Ok so I want to weigh in on this cause after watching like 90% of the community blow up over this I started thinking about it and I thought of something I think would work well and not take such a massive change that it would take a year to add to the game. And I also want it to be known who I am in this issues context and why I'm posting this here. I am a clan leader to a smaller clan that does not restrict anyone as long as they are not trolls to other members. I am Tenno Rank 25 through solo play mostly and have played on computer and Xbox 1 though my main account in Xbox 1 cause I am awful at using computer controls. And I am always farming for stuff I don't need to literally give to new clan members and friends to help them advance through the game and become more effective. Now, All that said.......I'm posting here cause I was about to open a topic for this and saw this post and agreed with some of it and had a couple things to add or change around that I think would help so any likes and comments to this for constructive purposes would be appreciated.

So first thing I want to say is that I love DE as a game company simply due to how they work so much on listening to their player base and try to be fair to people but that said they do have a few issues in their current game model that I feel they are aware of and some they may not be that I and many other people have noticed and the biggest issue here that hasn't been noted is the issue of Prestige Rewards vs. Player Effectiveness. So quick version of it is this. Like I said Im rank 25 and played a lot and still do but even I don't agree with their log in system due to the things in it and their rework seems like it will be worse.....and I know they are going over it to figure things out so I'm posting this idea to try to help. The problem is that the login system rewards items that players need for their gameplay effectiveness as major rewards instead of things that would still make people happy while being purely for bragging rights. 

Simple solution to this would be to remove the player effective items from the system but that creates issues too so here's my best idea on how to solve those problems.

1) remove the items and place them in a kiosk next to the ducat kiosk in relays. and I mean all the log in weapons and all the Prime mods from logins. that way they are not gone and everyone can still get to them. make the price for each one 100 ducats (really low amount but gives us another reason to farm them) and 50 login points per item. At 50 points per item it would still take 50 days to get each but that's half as long as current and since they could choose their item from the kiosk they could get what they wanted or needed for their gameplay style right then and wait half as long to get the next one.

2) Add a system for log in points to the game (this is really not hard). The game already tracks how many days you have logged in so have it give you 1 point per day and deduct 50 for each log in item you already earned when the system was put into place. It already tracks all out weapons/mastery and mods so that shouldn't be too hard either. They could even say that Baro state,"Tenno I recently noticed an anomaly in the void and when I peered into it he saw treasures galore and just had to share them with you for the low cost of my services. But Tenno I'm afraid that they came from a chronological tear in the void so time must be on your side to wield them." That explains why they were taken out of the login system in game and fixes a lot of things all on its own.

3) What to do about the holes left in the login rewards? So not we have what like 9 or so holes to fill in in the login reward thing. Well, in my opinion, these items should be cosmetics and things like that be made specifically for the logins alone. that way they are set apart from the ones you but and still give prestige to the Tenno who have Earned them with dedication to the game. But now it doesn't make the veterans have more power in a huge way. Veteran players will always have frames and weapons and all that that have been forma over and over to get them the way they want and a fully built weapon alone is worlds above a new player with nearly no mods in theirs. plus mastery level is a thing.....but that said nobody wants to play the game just so they can run behind the other guy and let him carry you the whole time. so it helps newer players to close that gap a bit but still gives them cool items to work for. I'm thinking armor parts and sets say 500 and 1,000 should be a full set at least weapon skins, Sigils, Glyphs, syandana, and sugatra. I would even be ok with warframe skins but I would assume they would take longer and not be as sought after in the case of certain people not using certain warframes. I also think each of these slots we are filling in should have a Forma, Exilus Adapter, or Catalyst at least maybe a Reactor. Reasoning behind that is it adds to us wanting to reach the milestone but doesn't give us enough that it breaks DE's gameplay model. It's a free game you don't have to spend money but if they gave you all the forma and catalysts and reactors you needed at a much faster rate you would be less likely to but them lol. And honestly, they deserve the support of people buying something from them for the great game we are all playing.....but there are way more weapons in game that need a catalyst that warframes that need a reactor......like 35 warframes not including primes and over 900 weapons so yeah......And god knows you need way more forma than that I mean everything uses that and some items use 6 or so for a full build.

4) Login Updates. I agree with the system laid out in the original post on splitting rewards into sections. I think basing it on rank would work. 1-10 low-tier, 11-20, mid-tier, 21-30 high-tier. And I know mastery doesn't hit 30 yet but it will cause the test trial is already in the relays and has been for a long time and everything else maxes at 30 so it only makes sense. just like you stated above with some minor changes due to not trying to hurt the company's money from stuff too much while still rewarding the players better.

• Low Mastery Ranking:

  • you have a higher chance to get things, like Gallium, Tellurium, Neurodes, Orokin cells, Morphics, and Neural Sensors, 30 minute boosters, credits, etc. All things that you'd commonly need to grind at that Mastery Rank.

• Medium Mastery Ranking:
  • At this point you'll need to be either grinding more quantity of what you've already been getting, or you'll need to start getting new resources. So, less % chance to get those resources from before, but larger amounts of them if you do. Also Endo, Oxium, Mutagen Samples, Cryotic, Forma blueprints, and 20-50% platinum discount. With a slight chance at Nitain Extract and 30 min. boosters replaced by 90 minute boosters.
• High Mastery Ranking:
  • At this point you have a much lower chance of getting rare resources such as Gallium, Tellurium, and all the rest. If you do, however, you a would get like 5 to 10. You get more Endo, Cryotic, Oxium, and Mutagen Samples than the tier 2 reward amount, 3 hour boosters replace the 90 minute boosters, Full Forma/Reactors/Catalysts/Exilus Adapters rarely, higher chance at Nitain Extract, and a chance at a good chunk of Kuva. You also get 50-75% off platinum instead of 20-50%

You could also add in Riven mods and Relics in some form but thats up for debate depending on how and what DE views them as. This is the best I can see the system working to help people get what they actually need/want to help them progress as well as giving them more incentive to raise their rank for better login rewards. Also, the players that have already hit the milestones for the cosmetics should be gifted the items in a letter from the lotus to explain and say that she hopes they enjoy the new Armors and weapon styles and attachments. and finish with her saying,"we all like to look good on the battlefield, Tenno." I think that fixes the majority of thing and allows them to keep expanding the login system easily past the 1,000 day mark without creating barriers where people sit there thinking I need this weapon or this mod but I have to wait over a year to get it.....it would still be the same for the armors and things but those are purely for bragging rights and don't affect core gameplay in any way.

Please share any thoughts you guys have on this idea if you took the time to read it.

Edited August 26, 2018 by (XB1)KoricZ

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)KoricZ said:

Please share any thoughts you guys have on this idea if you took the time to read it.

No good. 

 

I'm MR16 right now. I get excited when I get even a single Tellurium drop, after cutting everything that moves into tiny pieces, and then using Nekros prime to wring every last drop out of the myriad pieces for 20 minutes. Nitain I can usually pick up a couple if I need, but I have been doing the alerts any time I can, so I have a bit of a stockpile. 

 

That gallium that you figure isn't important to high ranked players, yeah try decorating a dojo and you'll see why some of them want lots of it. 

 

Oh and the platinum discounts? Yeah toss as many of those in as possible if console players would be on the receiving end, but we don't get those, do we? And hey don't you think that the people who have the greatest potential to spend plat are newer players who don't have a wholesalers bunch of prime blueprints to offload on the market, so shouldn't those heavy discounts swing the other way? 

[JaredWolf]

On 2018-08-24 at 9:48 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again to say that the number of logins isn't an indication of loyalty is true, but it also isn't an indication that the opposite is untrue. 

 

Just because you can have lots of logins and be a person who does not really play, does not mean that there aren't other people who do log in and play regularly. To say that "because there are people who are undeserving, nobody deserves it", is not a good step to take. 

Without giving any real foundation, you only repeated yourself.

Just because there are people who log in and play, doesn't mean there aren't people who log in and don't play.

Time is a tool, just like our words, and how you use it dictates a lot. You shouldn't feel like a special snowflake because you've logged in for 1000 days. Doesn't matter if you actually played often in those 1000 days. Because you can be right next to someone who has 1000 days and has a fraction of your play time (This is the Gw2 Example I made in the original post). That is the flaw of the system of "logging in for prestige". Now if you were playing back in 2014, and there was an event where upon completion you got a limited edition cosmetic item. Going forward to present day 2018. You still have said item. You will be wearing it and this will show how your time was used to dictate your "prestige". Where standing in a corner throwing your Zenistar doesn't.

People use the excuse "I took the time to take the effort out of my day to log in every day" or "I have to work 20 hours a day man logging in isn't easy for me, but I still managed"

I don't see anything besides a possibility of poor priority choices. If you're in a living situation where you need to work for such long hours, or commute for 3 hours a day to the job. I think log in rewards shouldn't be your main concern.

So again. In the terms of log ins; Time does not equal loyalty, prestige, or veteran status.
Log ins != time spent. Because it is not a static variable.

1 hour ago, (XB1)KoricZ said:

~snip

Please share any thoughts you guys have on this idea if you took the time to read it.

+1 post.

Working backwards here in your post.
I said above, in terms of relics, Vaulted relics shouldn't be added. But perhaps rare relics can work. Riven mods can work in a low % chance. We don't want to give players too many chances at rivens, as it'd powerspike the game even further. And cause the "No Mans' Army" problem to be even worse.

In my original post I mentioned in the tier log in idea, split Discount % based on MR. While not editing it out of the main post. I do not think it is that good of an idea anymore. But I do think 20% discount could be removed. Just make it 35/50/75 or something (I honestly can't think of anyone who's used the 20% discount). But the main idea of that system is to layout the resources in a method that is still ever useful to people in that "time frame". As someone nearing MR23, I have no use for any of the x1 resources I get from the log in rewards. I have hundreds of Gallium, Tellerium, Neurodes, Orokin Cells, etc. that I've farmed in missions. But if I was MR 5 or MR 13 I would benefit well from getting those because maybe that 1 Gallium was all I needed to finish my item, and I got it in log in,  so now I don't need to go farm it, I can go do something else, or farm for another resource.

I agree that proposed ideas can't infringe on the game model that DE has in place. So for all things impactful the chance is much lower, but not impossible (such as Forma Catalyst etc).
For the Milestones, the resources wouldn't ever be included. But instead it'd be the cosmetic things; like the sigils, syandanas, Armor sets, etc. but with a fancier flair to it. Even if its an already existing set/item in the game. Add a new flair to it. So when you see someone with it, even if you're wearing the same one. You'll see theirs looking cooler than yours. And then find out, you'll get it when you've put that many days in the log in system. It doesn't take enjoyment out of the game for lil' Timmy. Because its just cosmetics (unless he is materialistic, but that's not the games fault).

Your next point I agree with, and surprised I didn't think of it myself. A token system would work well (after talking to someone in the comments here about it, I gave it more thought). Add a new kiosk to the relays. This will be the -insert name of the tokens- Kiosk. Players will spend X credits and X tokens to pick the reward. These rewards would be new things, not what we already have in place. Those can be put elsewhere, or removed and let the people who have them keep them. It isn't like they're some amazing weapon set or anything. But that wouldn't solve the problem DE is trying to fix in the first place. And that is the enjoyment factor of ALL players. Veterans think of themselves, New players think of themselves*; DE thinks of ALL players. So perhaps throwing them all into Baro will work. With or without said token as a cost on top of Ducats and Credits.

*As with all things, there are outliners, not all users think of themselves.

Player Effectiveness. I believe a popular WF Partner covers this point well. Where he talks about lil' Timmy wanting to run around with the Sigma & Octantis acting like Captain America. He needs to wait 700 days(100 weeks); which is almost 2 years. That will remove the games fun factor to that player. Prestige should not come at the cost of another players enjoyment. That said; some events should be one time only events.

An example to this I go to Final Fantasy XIV.

Back when it was released, the game flopped. SE didn't give up, and they rebuilt the game from the ground up. Instead of simply turning off the old FF XIV and turning on the new one, pretending it never existed. SE made a over time in game event. This event let the players of the first game essentially play the closing of the first game, and the creation of the second game. These were in game events that only those players who played at that time, in that game, got to experience. Now, did they get some cool amazing weapon coming into the new game? I don't think they did (I didn't play FFXIV back then). But in the game itself, all those players are referred to as heroes that saved the world; in terms of story narrative for the new game (I'm not sure if it holds actual in game weight or not. I haven't played much of it). But it is an example of prestige, that isn't even an actual item. The proper way to value time for prestige.

This is a bit to over the top for Warframe, having world changing events. But it isn't impossible. There can be events where you participate, get a cosmetic reward. And then no one ever gets it again. Even if the even came back, the reward would be different.

The problem with this is; as the game improves--old rewards lose value.
Excalibur Prime is an example. Now that its been years, art has improved, skill has improved, etc. Someone who was untouched for so long, looks ugly in comparison to current editions, such as Umbral Excalibur. Which would mean, DE would either need to forget and accept; or change and adapt. To always make the past rewards feel valuable.

Another long winded post; happy reading.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Without giving any real foundation, you only repeated yourself.

Because it is the point that you didn't seem to understand. 

 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Just because there are people who log in and play, doesn't mean there aren't people who log in and don't play.

I accept that. I wouldn't cut off my nose just to spite my face. That's what you seem to believe needs to happen. There are some who may not play and yet have high logins. That doesn't bother me, the only thing I need to worry about is my logins. Why does what someone else have a possibility of getting bother you? 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Time is a tool, just like our words, and how you use it dictates a lot. You shouldn't feel like a special snowflake because you've logged in for 1000 days.

And you shouldn't feel inferior if you haven't. What's your point here other than to deride their number of games played? 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Doesn't matter if you actually played often in those 1000 days. Because you can be right next to someone who has 1000 days and has a fraction of your play time

So what? Read what you just wrote. It's like saying "it doesn't matter if you earned your millions of dollars, because someone else might have gotten lucky and won the lotto". Does that make sense to you, or are you just saying it for the sake of minimising the whole concept of having played for all that time? 

 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

That is the flaw of the system of "logging in for prestige". 

You're putting a lot of weigh in how you think others will view you. That doesn't shape my world. Especially not in a game like this one. I'm just happy to get something for having logged in. When I get to some high numbers I'll still be happy for it. Your opinion of my accomplishment being unworthy won't change how I feel about it. 

 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Now if you were playing back in 2014, and there was an event where upon completion you got a limited edition cosmetic item. Going forward to present day 2018. You still have said item. You will be wearing it and this will show how your time was used to dictate your "prestige". 

And while you stand there preening in your faded glory, most folks will not notice, and even fewer will care. Because and let's face it here, if as has been suggested there's no difference between vets and newbs, if those newbs were in a position to have earned the same cheap bauble, odds are that they would have. 

Where is your "four year old prestige" now? 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

People use the excuse "I took the time to take the effort out of my day to log in every day" or "I have to work 20 hours a day man logging in isn't easy for me, but I still managed"

Which people would that be? 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

I don't see anything besides a possibility of poor priority choices. If you're in a living situation where you need to work for such long hours, or commute for 3 hours a day to the job. I think log in rewards shouldn't be your main concern.

Funny. I don't know what straw man you just attacked, so I won't be trying to defend them. Of course I could suggest poor priority choices if you think that having a bauble in a game, given out years ago, should be particularly meaningful. 

 

3 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

So again. In the terms of log ins; Time does not equal loyalty, prestige, or veteran status.
Log ins != time spent. Because it is not a static variable.

And again, none of that is proof that time cannot mean loyalty, prestige, or veteran status. (You notice that it's the same point as above, and even further above.) 

It's like someone saying

1)"Some people cheat in video games" 

2)"They do not deserve recognition for their successes" 

3)"You play video games" 

4)"You may be a cheater and therefore deserve no recognition for your successes". 

 

It literally doesn't follow and you would probably think that the person suggesting it was cracked. Change "cheat" to "log in without actually playing and getting better" in lines one and four. Change "video games" into warframe on lines one and three. Those are the arguments that you are trying to make. 

[JaredWolf]

23 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

~snip

This doesn't really seem to be getting anywhere does it.

Sounds like, because there are two sides of a coin, you shouldn't talk about either side. What a boring life to live.
"This doesn't make sense because its true to someone else" Guess we shouldn't talk bout anything then?

I don't care what other people get from log in. I care about what they say, and impose their believes on others.
People think Log in systems are suppose to be some flashy thing for Veterans to have. It isn't. It is a catch up mechanic, typically speaking, for newer players to get wrapped up in the game to -catch up-. Like it is in nearly every other MMO game I've played.

People will feel inferior when they see someone have something they don't/can't have. Which is one of the big problems that is hard to address.
Whether or not YOU yourself care. Doesn't matter. I'm not talking about you, or me, or lil' Jimmy down the road. Talking about in general.

Don't compare physical money, and time in a video game, LOL.
There is no difference on the outside, if Player A or Player B is using the Zenistar, after these changes go through. Even currently it doesn't. Someone at 1000 days, or someone who just unlocked it; there is no difference. Other than the fact that you know you unlocked it X days ago. And that unless told, you assume he unlocked it then too (not that everyone would make that assumption, let alone care).

I really don't care how your world is shaped. If you're happy getting 5000 credits for logging in just as much as getting a Primed mod for logging in. Congratulations; you're a special snowflake in the minority. Give yourself a pat on the back.

I'm addressing my opinion on the COMMUNITY as a whole. Not on YOU. If you're an outlier, congratulations again.

The reason there is "no difference" between new players and 'veterans' is because developers don't limit content anymore. Holiday events? They'll come back all the time, with the same rewards. And if they don't they'll be some other way to get that reward. And odds are it'll be easier to obtain than when you did. Because people already figured the event out, that you had to learn yourself, without youtube guides.

For all those butthurt people talking bout how it takes effort to log in, Just go to Twitch or Twitter for Warframe You'll see plenty of comments/clips/retweets. Etc.

Do I think some event item should hold value? Sure if it isn't given out again. Do I think its something I should suck someones toes and grovel at their feet for? No. Just something cool they got on their character; that I can't get.

You say there is no proof that it doesn't mean the things I said it does not mean. Yet you show no proof it does. And you compare accomplishment vs cheating. But my point is, Logging in is NOT an accomplishment. You don't need a gold star checkmark for logging in like its preschool all over again. I don't care for the prestige, or log in system. Both can go in the recycle bin for all I care. I don't need a single quantity of resources for logging in. I'll go farm it myself.

Are we just grasping at straws at this point?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Sounds like, because there are two sides of a coin, you shouldn't talk about either side. What a boring life to live.

No, I've said it repeatedly, but perhaps the coin will be a better analogue, you're looking at a coin and saying "this doesn't always come up heads". I'm saying that because it comes up tails sometimes doesnt mean that it does not also come up heads. To insist that the existence of people who only log in to collect the dailies, doesn't mean that there aren't people who log in to play regularly. You've managed to miss that part repeatedly for some reason. 

 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

"This doesn't make sense because its true to someone else" Guess we shouldn't talk bout anything then?

You're the one who has repeatedly tried to ignore the members who have said that they log in regularly and play, or minimise the achievement of high logins "because of something that may be true for someone else". 

 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

People will feel inferior when they see someone have something they don't/can't have. 

Really? I think that you're projecting pretty hard there. But it really does explain your whole stance on the issue. So... Let me ask you something, how does it feel when you run into someone who is happy without the overt materialism? Someone who actually enjoys playing the game without the need to feel like a bauble or trinket (or lack thereof) is going to ruin their day. Because that's something that some of us seem to have, that you don't. 

 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Do I think some event item should hold value? Sure if it isn't given out again. 

And there you've doomed yourself to disappointment. Because what created that value for you is exactly why most people won't care "hey what's that?" "some reward for people who played an event 4 years ago.. Or another one about 3 years ago" "oh so I can't get it?" "no" "pffft, that blows why's he acting like it makes him better than me?" "that's just what he gets off on" "lol poser... oh look a nitain alert let's do that" *and forgets all about the dude standing around trying to show off because he happened to be around when some trinket was given out*

If nobody can ever get it no matter how hard they try, then it's not actually priceless is it? 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

The reason there is "no difference" between new players and 'veterans' is because developers don't limit content anymore.

No it's because those "new players" are now veterans too. They might as skilled as you used to be. They moved up. Maybe you don't like the idea that that's possible, but I doubt that gives them pause. 

 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

And odds are it'll be easier to obtain than when you did. Because people already figured the event out, that you had to learn yourself, without youtube guides.

That doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother you. I don't value myself based on what others achieve. You shouldn't either, but I can't change that. 

 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

You say there is no proof that it doesn't mean the things I said it does not mean. Yet you show no proof it does. 

Uh.... You don't get how burden of proof works, do you? You come here making a claim, it's up to you to actually prove that it's true. I showed you that what you said doesn't actually discount what people have managed to do, because proof that there are slackers isn't proof that there aren't people who who have done it. You even blew off someone who was pointing out that he's right up there. 

 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Logging in is NOT an accomplishment.

Really? That's nice. Of course you're the guy who only seems to place value on something if others can't get it too, so I don't know if everyone agrees with you on this. 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

And you compare accomplishment vs cheating.

Read it again and make the substitutions I suggested instead of skimming and snipping. 

 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

Are we just grasping at straws at this point?

Probably, but that's how the discussion started. You were using a Primed Stretch to try and make an illogical statement that doesn't actually support what you seem to want it to. 

[JaredWolf]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

~snip

Not once have I mentioned that there aren't people who log in and play actively.

Don't think I've ignored anyone, I've already stated that both people who just log in, and those who log in and play both exist.

If someone plays the game because they enjoy the game itself. More power to them, I'd certainly want to play with them over the people who play for the rewards.

How people look at "prestigious" things differ from person to person. (Like how I and others don't think having 1000 days of pressing Play is prestige, but it is to others)
For example (the ones I've used before). In Guild Wars 2, people would be impressed, or think its cool when they saw people with the Legendary weapons. Which quickly kicked the bucket when those became easily accessible. When you run into a player in FFXIV and they're from the merging of FFXIV and FFXIV: ARR, and they tell you about the events that took place. Some people will be impressed. Not everyone is self centered/carefree and think "my game, my way, can't get it-don't care". When you ran into players with Skillcapes in Runescape, similar to GW2. It was impressive to see someone who put in the effort to get a skill to 99; but that died out once it became easily accessible too.
So no, not everyone will dismiss prestige entirely, especially if they can't get it. What makes the Mona Lisa priceless? There is only 1 of them, and no way of getting it or another real one.

I misspoke there about the no difference in vets and new players it might have been a Freudian slip; my apologies.

But no, I don't value myself on others achievements. I myself don't care for prestige, but plenty of people do. (Hence this uproar about the rewards)

again, I never stated there was only 1 side to the coin. There are people who log in daily, for 1000 days, and play for each day. There are people who log in, and log out. This is a fact.

Let me rephrase that. Logging in isn't an accomplishment. If someone thinks it is. It's a personal accomplishment; which doesn't need to be reflected in the game.

I already read it in full and made the substitutions. But there is still a difference on multiple levels of accomplishments and cheating, or clicking "play".
So answer me this; why should pressing play, be shown as accomplishment?

You seem to think, I am for veterans getting prestige, and new players not getting things. I am 100% for new players getting the same things. I personally don't care for them (the weapons and mods or cosmetics), but I am sure there are some new players who 'really' want that Azima or Zenistar. More power to them if they can get it sooner. I won't be butthurt if they get it 'sooner' than I had to wait.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

33 minutes ago, JaredWolf said:

You seem to think, I am for veterans getting prestige, and new players not getting things. I am 100% for new players getting the same things. I personally don't care for them (the weapons and mods or cosmetics), but I am sure there are some new players who 'really' want that Azima or Zenistar. More power to them if they can get it sooner. I won't be butthurt if they get it 'sooner' than I had to wait.

Quick question, how do you think veterans so far, have gotten to their 1000 day login reward? You say you're 100% for new players getting the same things, so why shouldn't they too do the logins veterans have been doing, instead of getting spoon fed everything and getting their inflated sense of importance and entitlement inflated even further? Why should the developers waste valuable development time on a new login system, when there's things in warframe that's far more in need of change?

[MrMrs]

They locked mods and weapons behind the login system. That was really stupid on DE's part. The login system should never contain gameplay stuff like weapons and mods (really F*CKING 900 DAYS FOR PRIMED SURE FOOTED, A USELESS MOD I MAY ADD). If that stuff wasn't in the login system in the first place it would feel as "they're just self entitled noobs" when they changed the login system.  Also the MR system is very unreliable for skill factor. I hit mr 8 yesterday and I already completed the star chart at like mr 6. MR can be built with the right amount of patience. It really is never that hard. Login systems are always just bait and every game executes it in a S#&$ way and it's never fun seeing those in any game. People are salty because noobs now get to get the stuff they want without having to play 900 days. DE should just do away with the login system. That way there aren't people screaming that they aren't getting stuff and that it's unfair grind or that now all their hard work is wasted.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

 

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

Don't think I've ignored anyone, I've already stated that both people who just log in, and those who log in and play both exist.

And they're the reason why your claims of "people getting the 1000 day reward are people who just pressed play 1000 times" are invalid. 

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

For example (the ones I've used before). In Guild Wars 2, people would be impressed, or think its cool when they saw people with the Legendary weapons.

Even the ones who just dgaf? Because I suspect that's projecting again. 

 

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

When you run into a player in FFXIV and they're from the merging of FFXIV and FFXIV: ARR, and they tell you about the events that took place. Some people will be impressed. 

You literally just described the in-game equivalent of sitting around and watching a few hours someone else's vacation pictures from years ago. Some people might want to do that too. How many people do you think actually want to see your old vacation photos while you wax poetic about the upgrade you got because the first was a bit musty. 

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

What makes the Mona Lisa priceless? There is only 1 of them, and no way of getting it or another real one.

Insurance value less than some yachts. Also which Mona Lisa are you talking about, the one in the Louvre, that one in the Prado or, I shudder the Isleworth? Or did you mean the Joconde Nue in the Condé Museum? If you mean the one that was famously 'returned', is it the one on the top, or one of the two lower layers? 

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

There are people who log in daily, for 1000 days, and play for each day. There are people who log in, and log out. This is a fact.

Does that fact negate the logins of the people who have logged in and played? No it doesn't, and that's a fact. 

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

Logging in isn't an accomplishment. If someone thinks it is. It's a personal accomplishment; which doesn't need to be reflected in the game.

Go left by going right? And interestingly the people who made the game disagree with you about that. They're thinking that it is. Sort of means that your personal opinion on what an accomplishment is and isn't (at the same time it seems) is not the main one that people should consider, doesn't it? 

1 hour ago, JaredWolf said:

But no, I don't value myself on others achievements. 

Oh yes, I suppose that is true, you have indicated that you place more value in the things that they can't achieve. 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

So answer me this; why should pressing play, be shown as accomplishment?

Because the game counts it as one and rewards us for doing so, at least once per day, over time. Simple, really. 

2 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

I won't be butthurt if they get it 'sooner' than I had to wait.

Ah yes, that's clearly the point of this whole thread, that you aren't upset that the newbs will be awardee the same things that the long standing players have gotten. Except for the bit that was. 

[JaredWolf]

1 hour ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Quick question, how do you think veterans so far, have gotten to their 1000 day login reward? You say you're 100% for new players getting the same things, so why shouldn't they too do the logins veterans have been doing, instead of getting spoon fed everything and getting their inflated sense of importance and entitlement inflated even further? Why should the developers waste valuable development time on a new login system, when there's things in warframe that's far more in need of change?

Because it isn't about some sort of Entitlement, or Sense of Importance. If they want the weapon or mod because they think it'll make them have more fun in the game. Let them get it sooner. And not wait almost 2 or more years to get it. Remember, games are about having fun. You need to remember, Those items didn't exist (technically they did, but bare with me) until the first person(s) hit that milestone. So there wasn't really a sense of "I want that, I want that now" until it was announced/released from the person hitting the milestone. If DE, at Day 0 of the daily tribute, put out a list of the rewards for up to 1000 days. I am fairly certain the 'vetertans' who are crying bout people being entitled. Would also want to be "spoon fed" as you said. Because it'd be the exact same principle.

The reason I feel DE is addressing this now opposed to, say 2 years ago. Is first, the culture as a whole is an outrage culture, of entitled opinions and actions. And because there is a wind down of crunch time (I'm assuming) at DE. They're working on Melee 3.0, maybe Pet 2.0, and Venus open world. (While all of those imo should be top priority over log ins) I assume again, they don't have too many people working on the new Daily Tribute system, and I suspect that it won't be out before Venus open world either. (Especially after this outrage)

1 hour ago, MrMrs said:

They locked mods and weapons behind the login system. That was really stupid on DE's part. The login system should never contain gameplay stuff like weapons and mods (really F*CKING 900 DAYS FOR PRIMED SURE FOOTED, A USELESS MOD I MAY ADD). If that stuff wasn't in the login system in the first place it would feel as "they're just self entitled noobs" when they changed the login system.  Also the MR system is very unreliable for skill factor. I hit mr 8 yesterday and I already completed the star chart at like mr 6. MR can be built with the right amount of patience. It really is never that hard. Login systems are always just bait and every game executes it in a S#&$ way and it's never fun seeing those in any game. People are salty because noobs now get to get the stuff they want without having to play 900 days. DE should just do away with the login system. That way there aren't people screaming that they aren't getting stuff and that it's unfair grind or that now all their hard work is wasted.

Yes, locking weapons, and usable items behind a time gate is not a wise decision. And 'veterans' want to keep that gate up, because it makes them feel pretty standing on it, with the mass of people at the bottom. (Primed Sure footed, is a better example of what should be in log in system, than say, Primed Serration, or Primed Shred)

I agree that they might as well just remove the log in system. And its silly that 'veterans' are so upset about it they cry about quitting the game if the log in system isn't "just right".

13 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And they're the reason why your claims of "people getting the 1000 day reward are people who just pressed play 1000 times" are invalid. 

Even the ones who just dgaf? Because I suspect that's projecting again. 

 

You literally just described the in-game equivalent of sitting around and watching a few hours someone else's vacation pictures from years ago. Some people might want to do that too. How many people do you think actually want to see your old vacation photos while you wax poetic about the upgrade you got because the first was a bit musty. 

Insurance value less than some yachts. Also which Mona Lisa are you talking about, the one in the Louvre, that one in the Prado or, I shudder the Isleworth? Or did you mean the Joconde Nue in the Condé Museum? If you mean the one that was famously 'returned', is it the one on the top, or one of the two lower layers? 

Does that fact negate the logins of the people who have logged in and played? No it doesn't, and that's a fact. 

Go left by going right? And interestingly the people who made the game disagree with you about that. They're thinking that it is. Sort of means that your personal opinion on what an accomplishment is and isn't (at the same time it seems) is not the main one that people should consider, doesn't it? 

Oh yes, I suppose that is true, you have indicated that you place more value in the things that they can't achieve. 

Because the game counts it as one and rewards us for doing so, at least once per day, over time. Simple, really. 

Ah yes, that's clearly the point of this whole thread, that you aren't upset that the newbs will be awardee the same things that the long standing players have gotten. Except for the bit that was. 

I never said. Everyone who has 1000 days played, only pressed play and logged out.
I said multiple times. There are people on both sides of the spectrum (those with, and without playtime) and hundreds of people inbetween.

And lets keep in mind. The examples I gave are of MMO games. RPG ones in particular. Typically of communities of people who aren't asshats that "dgaf" bout anything but themselves. And will talk to people, share experience and not just thirst for rewards and self and only self improvement.

Touche on the mona lisa bit though. Ya got me there. x)

 

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

13 minutes ago, JaredWolf said:

Because it isn't about some sort of Entitlement, or Sense of Importance. If they want the weapon or mod because they think it'll make them have more fun in the game. Let them get it sooner. And not wait almost 2 or more years to get it. Remember, games are about having fun. You need to remember, Those items didn't exist (technically they did, but bare with me) until the first person(s) hit that milestone. So there wasn't really a sense of "I want that, I want that now" until it was announced/released from the person hitting the milestone. If DE, at Day 0 of the daily tribute, put out a list of the rewards for up to 1000 days. I am fairly certain the 'vetertans' who are crying bout people being entitled. Would also want to be "spoon fed" as you said. Because it'd be the exact same principle.

The reason I feel DE is addressing this now opposed to, say 2 years ago. Is first, the culture as a whole is an outrage culture, of entitled opinions and actions. And because there is a wind down of crunch time (I'm assuming) at DE. They're working on Melee 3.0, maybe Pet 2.0, and Venus open world. (While all of those imo should be top priority over log ins) I assume again, they don't have too many people working on the new Daily Tribute system, and I suspect that it won't be out before Venus open world either. (Especially after this outrage)

 

I understand your point about veterans not knowing what they'll get next, but they have to go through the disappointment of getting Primed Sure Footed and the joy of getting Zenistar. You can't compare, since it's 2 different experiences being first to find out and knowing what's to come.

I disagree with why DE is addressing this now, it's pure and simply because the new found player base is complaining about things in the game and doesn't give it a second thought, that 4 and 5 year veterans have a knowledge of the games, the bugs, the mechanics, the builds and synergies the new players didn't even thought possible. I mean why is it only actual veterans from before the removal of keys, that does 6-8 hour survivals and the new player base is adamant that it's impossible to stay that long?

DE is working on too many things, resulting in the new content being half baked, the problems they made in the game doesn't actually get fixed and veterans are leaving because they feel like the game is becoming noob simulator 2018.

[FireSegment]

really good post, i did not see a detail and well argue like this for a while around here, u got my like first

now, i haven't read it all yet, only to the guilt of war prestige example part, may be u do address this later in your post but currently my thought is that: DE not gonna remove the prestige of login, they are just gonna swap the cachet from

 - "having the newest tier login reward"

into 

- "having all of the login reward"

that way, those who are still login everyday do not have any changes upon their prestige level, cuz ... well they are still the only one who have all of them and don't have to choose which to pick on the next milestone. While it also shift the negative feeling for those who always fancy the newest login reward one. Which ... is kinda a good win-win for me, but i can see it require those who insisting on keeping "have the newest login reward" as prestige a big shift in mindset to see it as a win, (and i consider this is the majority of those who hate the change)

in other word, i don't think that this part about time, loyalty and prestige

On 2018-08-22 at 7:27 AM, JaredWolf said:

Can reaching the milestone for logging in show personal loyalty? This is not a trick question, the answer is no. Because of what I explained above.

So we're going to continue using this basis. Time spent != mean loyalty. Nor does it mean you're a veteran, or warrant prestige In the terms of log-in.

are relevant on the change DE gonna make. Login daily are considered by DE as something player should get a reward for, or we would not have this whole system from the start. a cachet that are unique to login would not be a big leap from there as a reward. Also, 1000 day of login are not easy and not everyone will eventually get there.

What im trying to say is that sometime, trying to determine what should be worthy enough to be consider prestige aren't gonna help, because different player would value different challenges and rewards .. differently. DE just throw exclusive into every corner have hope that every player would at least found something they happy with.

and again keep in mind that im not read the whole of your post yet so may be u did address this, but that's all for now. gonna edit if i found another interesting idea

 

[JaredWolf]

On 2018-08-27 at 9:50 PM, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

I understand your point about veterans not knowing what they'll get next, but they have to go through the disappointment of getting Primed Sure Footed and the joy of getting Zenistar. You can't compare, since it's 2 different experiences being first to find out and knowing what's to come.

I disagree with why DE is addressing this now, it's pure and simply because the new found player base is complaining about things in the game and doesn't give it a second thought, that 4 and 5 year veterans have a knowledge of the games, the bugs, the mechanics, the builds and synergies the new players didn't even thought possible. I mean why is it only actual veterans from before the removal of keys, that does 6-8 hour survivals and the new player base is adamant that it's impossible to stay that long?

DE is working on too many things, resulting in the new content being half baked, the problems they made in the game doesn't actually get fixed and veterans are leaving because they feel like the game is becoming noob simulator 2018.

Okay, so lets address Primed Sure Footed. Going from start to finish. Primed Sure Footed is a shot in the foot (or entitlement to be precise). But if we're to be honest. Primed Sure Footed is the "perfect" log in reward if we're going to branch off of the "actual" purpose for log in rewards. They're not meant to stroke your epeen; only to aid you (mainly new players).
I do agree, DE is working on way too many things right now. Before releasing or starting Fortuna I would have finished Melee 3.0, and maybe another overhaul or two.
But being honest once more; catering games to the umbrella term "veteran" playerbase, is not an easy task to do. People think new players are entitled. But that isn't true. everyone is entitled.

On 2018-08-28 at 12:19 AM, FireSegment said:

really good post, i did not see a detail and well argue like this for a while around here, u got my like first

now, i haven't read it all yet, only to the guilt of war prestige example part, may be u do address this later in your post but currently my thought is that: DE not gonna remove the prestige of login, they are just gonna swap the cachet from

 - "having the newest tier login reward"

into 

- "having all of the login reward"

that way, those who are still login everyday do not have any changes upon their prestige level, cuz ... well they are still the only one who have all of them and don't have to choose which to pick on the next milestone. While it also shift the negative feeling for those who always fancy the newest login reward one. Which ... is kinda a good win-win for me, but i can see it require those who insisting on keeping "have the newest login reward" as prestige a big shift in mindset to see it as a win, (and i consider this is the majority of those who hate the change)

in other word, i don't think that this part about time, loyalty and prestige

are relevant on the change DE gonna make. Login daily are considered by DE as something player should get a reward for, or we would not have this whole system from the start. a cachet that are unique to login would not be a big leap from there as a reward. Also, 1000 day of login are not easy and not everyone will eventually get there.

What im trying to say is that sometime, trying to determine what should be worthy enough to be consider prestige aren't gonna help, because different player would value different challenges and rewards .. differently. DE just throw exclusive into every corner have hope that every player would at least found something they happy with.

and again keep in mind that im not read the whole of your post yet so may be u did address this, but that's all for now. gonna edit if i found another interesting idea

 

I would suggest reading it all, then we can talk about it in more detail. But for now, I will address that as long as a player doesn't quit, or DE shuts down Warframe; everyone will get to the 1000 day log in rewards. And yes every player will have their own definitions of accomplishment/prestige. But when making content for it; it is best to use the standard definition.

[LuckyCharm]

The whole reason veterans are annoyed,  and thanks to your original post giving all the definitions,  is that regardless of mastery rank people have made effort to consistantly log in for years,  and what they have to show for that are their login rewards.  With the de proposed system this gets muddied a whole lot and any of those items lose their percieved value because a person at day 100 can pick the 1000 day reward if they choose, so wearing that into missions will no longer be "wow ive never seen that armor set before,  awesome! "  which is kind of what people like to happen in games theyve played a long time.  

Literally any mmo or LoL even have items and skins that were released and retired to remain exclusive after that content or event has ended.  Warframe had that and now it doesnt.  This is why veterans feel like theyre being screwed again because its effectively the last major system they had to show theyd played the last few years.  They cant pull out their snipetron vandals or latron wraiths like i used to because now they have literally no value other than maybe 10p for the parts.  They used to be "look at this sniper i got way back in the day when i started" and the only reason they were rereleased is because newbies wanted mastery rank. They dont even use the guns.  Not once have i seen someone with the latron wraith in missions other than hydron to rank it up,  and the only time i see the snipetron is in sniper only sorties when newbies im carrying dont have better.  At least in games like LoL when i pull out my neo pax sivir people actually are pleased to see it rather than here where people whine they cant have stuff till DE gives in.

If mastery rank wasnt tied to things it shouldnt be (it used to just be a number no one cared about which made the game much more about enjoyment than grinding out every weapon regardless of if its good or not) then no one would care.  The weapons would just be there to get eventually and be happy or not that you have something new to try. Mastery now though..  You need it for silly things like daily standing caps, focus caps,  simulacrum levels etc.  Why?  All that system does is burn players out rather than let them explore at their own paces.  

 

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

On 2018-08-31 at 6:41 PM, JaredWolf said:

Okay, so lets address Primed Sure Footed. Going from start to finish. Primed Sure Footed is a shot in the foot (or entitlement to be precise). But if we're to be honest. Primed Sure Footed is the "perfect" log in reward if we're going to branch off of the "actual" purpose for log in rewards. They're not meant to stroke your epeen; only to aid you (mainly new players).
I do agree, DE is working on way too many things right now. Before releasing or starting Fortuna I would have finished Melee 3.0, and maybe another overhaul or two.
But being honest once more; catering games to the umbrella term "veteran" playerbase, is not an easy task to do. People think new players are entitled. But that isn't true. everyone is entitled.

I don't disagree with your point about the purpose of login rewards and even if I could, I wouldn't remove primed sure footed. My point isn't to make the rewards good every time, my point is to stop crying about the login system, accept what we're getting and when. There's things that need far more attention and it's not happening because DE is catering to crying little timmy. It's not hard at all to remember the veterans at all. Think "would this be shafting a player who have been here from the beginning" and if the answer is yes, just say "not happening, we're not in the business of being unfair to our most loyal part of the player base".

[JaredWolf]

On 2018-08-31 at 8:39 PM, LuckyCharm said:

The whole reason veterans are annoyed,  and thanks to your original post giving all the definitions,  is that regardless of mastery rank people have made effort to consistantly log in for years,  and what they have to show for that are their login rewards.  With the de proposed system this gets muddied a whole lot and any of those items lose their percieved value because a person at day 100 can pick the 1000 day reward if they choose, so wearing that into missions will no longer be "wow ive never seen that armor set before,  awesome! "  which is kind of what people like to happen in games theyve played a long time.  

Literally any mmo or LoL even have items and skins that were released and retired to remain exclusive after that content or event has ended.  Warframe had that and now it doesnt.  This is why veterans feel like theyre being screwed again because its effectively the last major system they had to show theyd played the last few years.  They cant pull out their snipetron vandals or latron wraiths like i used to because now they have literally no value other than maybe 10p for the parts.  They used to be "look at this sniper i got way back in the day when i started" and the only reason they were rereleased is because newbies wanted mastery rank. They dont even use the guns.  Not once have i seen someone with the latron wraith in missions other than hydron to rank it up,  and the only time i see the snipetron is in sniper only sorties when newbies im carrying dont have better.  At least in games like LoL when i pull out my neo pax sivir people actually are pleased to see it rather than here where people whine they cant have stuff till DE gives in.

If mastery rank wasnt tied to things it shouldnt be (it used to just be a number no one cared about which made the game much more about enjoyment than grinding out every weapon regardless of if its good or not) then no one would care.  The weapons would just be there to get eventually and be happy or not that you have something new to try. Mastery now though..  You need it for silly things like daily standing caps, focus caps,  simulacrum levels etc.  Why?  All that system does is burn players out rather than let them explore at their own paces.  

 

After all this posting, I can't believe I never thought of using League for an example.

And it is one that I was personally affected by. With Championship II Riven. I got that skin when it came out. And Riot said thats it no more, if you got it, sweet, if not. Sorry not Sorry. A new skin next championship. Now while I am probably the worse Riven player you'll ever see on NA; I was happy to have that skin, and see very few people have it too.
I stopped playing for several years, (between season 3 or 4 to mid season 7) and what do I see? a "new" Championship II Riven skin, but it doesn't have an ugly border around it, and a few in game effects missing or something. And an altered name (2016) or something like that. That S#&$ pissed me off (even though I'm still terrible, if not worse, at Riven).
So it isn't like I don't understand veterans' crying about their "prestige" being taken away. But the difference is; Championship II Riven is a cosmetic reskin. The weapons are complete S#&$e, and the mods shouldn't be in the log ins either. And actually change gameplay. (less so the mods than the weapons). The Primed mods effect like.. the Lesion. And thats all I can think of. Aside from the preference of Shred on Primaries.

And I agree; Mastery Rank should not hold weight on the game mechanics, like standing etc. They should tie the max standing cap, to your syndicate rank. Etc.
The most important thing imo is the weapon capacity, so I can be lazy and get 60/60 without leveling it up and put all the mods on it LOL.

On 2018-09-01 at 9:05 PM, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

I don't disagree with your point about the purpose of login rewards and even if I could, I wouldn't remove primed sure footed. My point isn't to make the rewards good every time, my point is to stop crying about the login system, accept what we're getting and when. There's things that need far more attention and it's not happening because DE is catering to crying little timmy. It's not hard at all to remember the veterans at all. Think "would this be shafting a player who have been here from the beginning" and if the answer is yes, just say "not happening, we're not in the business of being unfair to our most loyal part of the player base".

I'm starting to feel bad for anyone in the community named Timmy. We've taken him for a ride back and forth by now LOL. My point with Primed Sure Footed is; IF log in rewards were to contain mods (which they shouldn't) Primed Sure Footed is the ideal type of mod to add. Never will it be mandatory in any build, but hey, it is something you have, that they don't. (granted they won't even know that because you can't see other player loadouts).

But yes, Log-in rewards should have been what Frame Fighter was. a Lunch Table discussion fix. Where they don't waste any man-hours for actual mechanics that'd fix or improve the game. Like idk, maybe Enemy AI/Scaling? I don't care if the devs cater to whinny Timmy, or Macho Joe whose been here for almost 6 years. Veteran's are the real cry babies. People get to get something that is textures put onto a model that they had to put "effort" into getting throughout the years.

News flash Vets: Warframe WOULDN'T be here WITHOUT you. That is something you should carry in your hearts. Not some fact that you took X days to get the Zenistar, and now someone else takes Y days.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

8 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

 

News flash Vets: Warframe WOULDN'T be here WITHOUT you. That is something you should carry in your hearts. Not some fact that you took X days to get the Zenistar, and now someone else takes Y days.

Exactly, warframe wouldn't be here, so tell me again how it's ok DE is pooping on vets?

As for mods being mandatory, I think we disagree on what mandatory means. Primed Fury isn't mandatory in anything, it's better, but not mandatory. It's also completely fair to reward a player for keeping up with daily logins, so DE can boost their unique daily players count. They rely on those popularity ratings, not advertising on tv/yt/streams.

[JaredWolf]

16 hours ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Exactly, warframe wouldn't be here, so tell me again how it's ok DE is pooping on vets?

As for mods being mandatory, I think we disagree on what mandatory means. Primed Fury isn't mandatory in anything, it's better, but not mandatory. It's also completely fair to reward a player for keeping up with daily logins, so DE can boost their unique daily players count. They rely on those popularity ratings, not advertising on tv/yt/streams.

I still can't see how reworking a log in system is doing that to vets. It isn't like they gave everyone Excal Prim.... Wait I think you're onto something.

And like I said, the primed mods are either niche or preference. The only weapon I could see Primed Fury being "mandatory on" is Lesion. Because Berserker doesn't do anything useful for a non-crit weapon. And noral fury is still a great option. But not for someone who loves using the Lesion and also a min maxer.

The real point here is. Veteran's false sense of Prestige shouldn't be used to hinder the gameplay of other individuals.

Lock Cosmetics behind time gates all you want. But actual gameplay things shouldn't be.

As I stated in my OP. I still think just making completely new milestones, and leaving people who have the ones (mods excluded) already, with those people. And start everyone back at 0. But that won't solve the problem that I just mentioned 2 lines above.

Edit: And I still stand firm that Sure Footed will never be mandatory ever. But if they did Primed Serration instead. That would make every veteran all giggly and cheery. But make the situation even worse. Players will need to wait X YEARS (not days or hours, YEARS) to get something that WOULD be mandatory for min/max/efficiency.
I can see it now, people doing Eidolon runs, or ESO runs "Must have Primed Serration" And they'll be sitting in recruit chat for ages, upon ages, just like how people only look for Void Strike maxed people for Eidolon groups. But maybe I'm being too cynical at this point.

Edited September 7, 2018 by JaredWolf

[birdobash]

One thing I'm a little bit disagreeing with the OP

The part where you said if the player was 456 days and the next milestone day was zenith, they wouldn't get it but someone at day 486 would.

Personally I think all players no matter how little days after their next milestone they are progressed through should still get the next milestone reward, imagine if a player has logged in every single day for 401 days looking forward to zenith and then the proposed change goes through, not only have they lost all their 401/500 days of progress but also they won't have had it given to them while others 2 months ahead of them in terms of logins would have gained the item.

Basically I don't think a player that is 99 off from their next big milestone reward shouldn't get cucked while someone 40-30 days away gets a free month worth of time saved.

Otherwise I like these proposed changes.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

14 hours ago, JaredWolf said:

I still can't see how reworking a log in system is doing that to vets. It isn't like they gave everyone Excal Prim.... Wait I think you're onto something.

And like I said, the primed mods are either niche or preference. The only weapon I could see Primed Fury being "mandatory on" is Lesion. Because Berserker doesn't do anything useful for a non-crit weapon. And noral fury is still a great option. But not for someone who loves using the Lesion and also a min maxer.

The real point here is. Veteran's false sense of Prestige shouldn't be used to hinder the gameplay of other individuals.

Lock Cosmetics behind time gates all you want. But actual gameplay things shouldn't be.

As I stated in my OP. I still think just making completely new milestones, and leaving people who have the ones (mods excluded) already, with those people. And start everyone back at 0. But that won't solve the problem that I just mentioned 2 lines above.

Edit: And I still stand firm that Sure Footed will never be mandatory ever. But if they did Primed Serration instead. That would make every veteran all giggly and cheery. But make the situation even worse. Players will need to wait X YEARS (not days or hours, YEARS) to get something that WOULD be mandatory for min/max/efficiency.
I can see it now, people doing Eidolon runs, or ESO runs "Must have Primed Serration" And they'll be sitting in recruit chat for ages, upon ages, just like how people only look for Void Strike maxed people for Eidolon groups. But maybe I'm being too cynical at this point.

I will agree that many veterans have an inflated sense of self importance, but as to go and rework a system, which is probably the only 100% fair system warframe ever had, that have nothing to do with prestige in any way. It's about making people feel that their efforts and time have no gratitude or value to DE. We supported DE when they needed it the most, then they go and noobify warframe, because 20 minutes takes too long for a reward and it's too hard to grind for 20 minutes. Then it's arcanes is too expensive, so they become abundant and extremely easily obtained. Then it's the focus is too hard to grind and we get eso. Meanwhile veterans who I might add think every single sortie is dirt easy and just speedrun it with what ever they happen to have equipped, get elite alerts, with they same ludicrous modifiers and the same level. And we get endo and cosmetics for it. I still got over a million endo left after upgrading all 3 umbra mods and the cosmetics, well they will be like the already existing cosmetics alerts, a speed run on easy mode.

[JaredWolf]

19 hours ago, birdobash said:

One thing I'm a little bit disagreeing with the OP

The part where you said if the player was 456 days and the next milestone day was zenith, they wouldn't get it but someone at day 486 would.

Personally I think all players no matter how little days after their next milestone they are progressed through should still get the next milestone reward, imagine if a player has logged in every single day for 401 days looking forward to zenith and then the proposed change goes through, not only have they lost all their 401/500 days of progress but also they won't have had it given to them while others 2 months ahead of them in terms of logins would have gained the item.

Basically I don't think a player that is 99 off from their next big milestone reward shouldn't get cucked while someone 40-30 days away gets a free month worth of time saved.

Otherwise I like these proposed changes.

Here is my reasoning for this, feel free to let me know what you think.

Why someone at 401 days shouldn't get the 500 reward, but someone at 486 should.

If you're on a timed race, and you are just about to make it to the finish line; the timer rings. You did not cross the finish line; you don't get a prize.
(Disclaimer: my original draft for this, I voiced that no matter how close you were, you didn't get it. But felt people would outrage even more; so I decided perhaps its better that if you were X days close, you should get it but not Y days.)

6 hours ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

I will agree that many veterans have an inflated sense of self importance, but as to go and rework a system, which is probably the only 100% fair system warframe ever had, that have nothing to do with prestige in any way. It's about making people feel that their efforts and time have no gratitude or value to DE. We supported DE when they needed it the most, then they go and noobify warframe, because 20 minutes takes too long for a reward and it's too hard to grind for 20 minutes. Then it's arcanes is too expensive, so they become abundant and extremely easily obtained. Then it's the focus is too hard to grind and we get eso. Meanwhile veterans who I might add think every single sortie is dirt easy and just speedrun it with what ever they happen to have equipped, get elite alerts, with they same ludicrous modifiers and the same level. And we get endo and cosmetics for it. I still got over a million endo left after upgrading all 3 umbra mods and the cosmetics, well they will be like the already existing cosmetics alerts, a speed run on easy mode.

 

I agree.
The Log-in day, doesn't need to be changed. Scaling differences would be nice. But if it was to be changed, I feel my proposed changes would work after balancing.
Yes they are making things easier, in general. These changes will not effect Veterans' because they have "everything" already. You don't need focus, Endo, Credits, Platinum, Mods, Weapons, etc; just cosmetics are left.

But this isn't a problem with log in rewards. If someone is playing just for log in rewards would be interesting. This refers to the infamous MMO genre problem of "no End Game" content.

I want to nitpick a few things in your post, if you don't mind.

"because 20 minutes takes too long for a reward and it's too hard to grind for 20 minutes." - Referring to "20minutes and leave meta"?
This in my opinion has nothing to do with Casual/Hardcore-New/Old players. I do believe Steve has said on record that DE wants Warframe to be a drop and play experience. They don't want people to sit down to play warframe and treat it like a MMORPG Raid, where they need to dedicate hours to play the game. Another thing which is more opinion and less than fact. But I think DE knows their scaling is terrible so they try to guide people away from going where the scaling is bad (Endurance runs). At least until they fix it; which should be higher priority than Log-ins.

"Then it's arcanes is too expensive, so they become abundant and extremely easily obtained."
This I partially agree with. I feel that the reason they put arcanes into the Eidolons; was due to time and company resources. Perhaps they felt Eidolons were a better way to obtain arcanes... or maybe they were just lazy. I personally think Arcanes would have been better in ESO.

"Then it's the focus is too hard to grind and we get eso"
I think the reason they did this, was mainly to kill, or guide players away from, Adaro farming. They stated that is NOT what they want players to do; NOT what they wanted their gameplay to be like. This doesn't mean what they did was right. Normal Onslaught could have been for focus, and then make ESO be the actual game mode for older players.

 

"...get elite alerts, with they same ludicrous modifiers and the same level. And we get endo and cosmetics for it"

Giving them feedback about this, instead of crying about log-in rewards; is what veterans should be doing. I agree that endo is a terrible reward for it. And I still need endo (wanna gimme yours LOL). Cosmetics are the right direction. But I think this is the same reasons as focus farming. I feel perhaps they don't want players farming Rathuum the way we are for endo, so they're giving us another method. And I also don't think it should be as easy as Sorties.

 

All of this leads me to a question (not you exactly but in general)
What is it that YOU want for rewards? As a veteran; you don't need forma, in game currencies, premium currency, any in game resources, any in game items. Most veterans don't need ANYTHING  because they have everything already.

"New content" doesn't cut it. You see new content, and then you see people put the upmost effort to put the least effort into it.
"New rewards" is probably a better response, but isn't the easier option.

It's a very interesting Circle 22.

 

[nerfinator6]

I've been playing since loki was a starter, got around 925 days on the login, and I couldn't care less if they moved the rewards to every 50 days, or hell, just give them out for free. I personally think the idea of having to wait YEARS to get an item is, to be honest, completely ridiculous. Just give me a 75% off every 50-100 days, I'd be rather happy with that.

[JaredWolf]

On 2018-09-09 at 12:09 PM, nerfinator6 said:

I've been playing since loki was a starter, got around 925 days on the login, and I couldn't care less if they moved the rewards to every 50 days, or hell, just give them out for free. I personally think the idea of having to wait YEARS to get an item is, to be honest, completely ridiculous. Just give me a 75% off every 50-100 days, I'd be rather happy with that.

If only more people were like you. I applaud you.