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Loyalty and Purpose


Dark.Chaoz.Bringer
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2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

Unless the future WF content is highly tactical and challenging, "exclusively necessary" can only occur via relevant pvp interaction ('cause, you see, all them monsters out there are really good... punching bags which don't really hit back). And relevant pvp interaction leads to a Conclave discussion... or a thousand of them.

Thought you might be interested in this idea. My suggestion for renewing interest in Warframe PVP. Could help with Clanliness lol

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Private_Ventures said:

You gotta be kidding me. They could access the labs the whole time?! I MISUNDERSTOOD THE WIKI? THEY'VE HAD LAB ACCESS?

I'm not sure how long you've had your whole system going, but yeah. The people in your clan are most likely laughing at you due to ignorance or may have been in the dark as well just accepting it. Then again, maybe it IS different on consoles. I have no conclusive idea due to not being tied down to a console anymore.

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10 hours ago, Dark.Chaoz.Bringer said:

I'm not sure how long you've had your whole system going, but yeah. The people in your clan are most likely laughing at you due to ignorance or may have been in the dark as well just accepting it. Then again, maybe it IS different on consoles. I have no conclusive idea due to not being tied down to a console anymore.

Welp. Thank you for educating me. At the very least, I haven't seen any of our new recruits with clan weapons yet. Nary a Castanas or Ignis among them. So, they may have just taken me at face value, which sounds pretty good. Aside from that, though, it's been a good day. Had two guys rank up, one earning a Telos Akbolto and the other earning himself a Lex Prime. Here's hoping the rest of the newbies just blindly believe me lol

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)Private_Ventures said:

Aside from that, though, it's been a good day. Had two guys rank up, one earning a Telos Akbolto and the other earning himself a Lex Prime. Here's hoping the rest of the newbies just blindly believe me lol

I would also have to un-applaud you for the last bit. But the way you're managing the loyalty bit is just commendable. Still, deceit and lying (be it even through omission) don't make for good loyalty building ingredients. While it would be useful for some control obsessed warlords to have a rank that can only contribute to the clan without getting jack-poop in return, the fact that it's not the case should have you reevaluate your lab access routine 🙂

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Private_Ventures said:

Welp. Thank you for educating me. At the very least, I haven't seen any of our new recruits with clan weapons yet. Nary a Castanas or Ignis among them. So, they may have just taken me at face value, which sounds pretty good. Aside from that, though, it's been a good day. Had two guys rank up, one earning a Telos Akbolto and the other earning himself a Lex Prime. Here's hoping the rest of the newbies just blindly believe me lol

No problem my dude. All I ask is that you pay it forward and spread the knowledge. Personally, I can't cosign that last part. My best guess in regards to your members not having the bps you mentioned, is that they're probably low MR and are new to the game vs new to the clan. That being said, they're most likely too low to be able to get them anyway.

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1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

I would also have to un-applaud you for the last bit. But the way you're managing the loyalty bit is just commendable. Still, deceit and lying (be it even through omission) don't make for good loyalty building ingredients. While it would be useful for some control obsessed warlords to have a rank that can only contribute to the clan without getting jack-poop in return, the fact that it's not the case should have you reevaluate your lab access routine 🙂

Though I understand what you're saying, I'm not doing it to be deceitful. I'm actually doing it to prevent others from deceiving me. I've had way too many new recruits come in, replicate the blueprints they want, and then abandon the clan. I've been taken advantage of in this way some 10-15 times, to the point where this is the best solution I can come up with, by giving them a trial period where I can evaluate them, to ensure that they won't just "take the money and run".

 

34 minutes ago, Dark.Chaoz.Bringer said:

No problem my dude. All I ask is that you pay it forward and spread the knowledge. Personally, I can't cosign that last part. My best guess in regards to your members not having the bps you mentioned, is that they're probably low MR and are new to the game vs new to the clan. That being said, they're most likely too low to be able to get them anyway.

I understand your hesitation to condone it. Actually, due to our Clan tryouts, instead of just openly recruiting, we hardly ever get new recruits under MR5. I prefer the clan gear to be something to be earned, rather than allowing them to use the Dojo I built myself like a Walmart: plenty of things I want them to earn and pay for in some way or other, but extremely prone to shoplifting.

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1 hour ago, Dark.Chaoz.Bringer said:

I'm not sure if you read all the banter thus far, but the crazy thing is that me and you have VERY similar ideas. The only difference here it seems is our methods and propositions.

I've noticed. Our primary point seems to boil down to making clans more of a special thing, as they should be. They, at least in my mind, were never intended to be used as a secondary non-platinum market or free trading station. It is my belief that they were intended to be places where like-minded players could come together, form alliances and friendships, and play the game the way they wanted to play it, instead of relying on the public to be what they wanted, when it is far too diverse to adhere to one single style.

Not that diversity is bad overall. But it isn't good for tight-knit unity in high doses.

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I don't think it's an issue of diversity. I think either it was a flaw in the system DE didn't consider a flaw themselves, OR DE is leaving such things untouched in an effort to pander to casuals/noobs/lazy mofos that would keep a flow of player population to be advertised as a positive. To help you better understand what I mean, I'm willing to bet that when Fortuna drops, new players are going to be able to head straight in. My point here is that much like the Plains of Eidolon, new players will have NO business being there so early. I'm VERY confident that DE is just scared of losing the new fans possibly due to how a majority of gamers have become too poosified and/or just straight too up lazy to EARN anything. Just look at how many people complain about the "long and hard" journey to the War Within.

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16 hours ago, Dark.Chaoz.Bringer said:

I don't think it's an issue of diversity. I think either it was a flaw in the system DE didn't consider a flaw themselves, OR DE is leaving such things untouched in an effort to pander to casuals/noobs/lazy mofos that would keep a flow of player population to be advertised as a positive. To help you better understand what I mean, I'm willing to bet that when Fortuna drops, new players are going to be able to head straight in. My point here is that much like the Plains of Eidolon, new players will have NO business being there so early. I'm VERY confident that DE is just scared of losing the new fans possibly due to how a majority of gamers have become too poosified and/or just straight too up lazy to EARN anything. Just look at how many people complain about the "long and hard" journey to the War Within.

I think you're assuming everyone and their mothers are fans of excessive control 🙂

Now, when Fortuna drops, it should be exactly like the Plains were. I visited them upon Lotus' invite when I reached Earth and I've got my arse handed to me. I concluded that it's a nice place with mean grineer fellows and left to look for that special thing that would turn my Lato into a tank. I did return a bit later (and by a bit I mean as I was reaching Neptune on the star chart) to run random low level bounties for crafting materials and mods.

These large areas can't be exclusively designed to those were stayed with Warframe since its inception. If anything, they should provide some special  ares - dungeons, if you like - for end-game players that they can enter by crafting a locator/key item that Konzu, Lotus or whoever sends to them as they reach maybe MR20. Then that locator/key thingie would open an otherwise closed door in one of the caves of the Plains (can't make any reference to Fortuna as I have very little knowledge of what's to come). Past that door a seemingly bottomless pit that will act as a loading screen or transition area (in case players would opt to go into the Plains without a pre-formed team) and the tenno will land maybe in Vay Hek's ghoul labs or whatnot.

To address the other thing both of you have mentioned, judging by DE's time investment in the Dojo decorations revamp, I don't believe they don't care about the fate of the clans' state. Both of you would call being able to enjoy public runs a weakness, if not a flaw. And both of you would want the whole Origin System to revolve around your clan (probably because of being a bad case of control freaks with good intentions ^.^)

Add to that the fact that DE did state in a few Devstreams that they're working on clan activities (or at least that's what I understood from what they showed there). And on this idea, I'm pretty sure both you and other warlords would rather wait longer for higher quality clan related activities than get an E/SO experience as a filler.

You can also take it down a notch with how DE is pandering to this or that category of players. Not everyone's a hardcore gamer and not everyone wants the same things in a game that offers a lot of variety, just like you said. Casuals don't want your levels of dedication in anything Warframe - maybe they don't have the time for it or maybe they just want to gather rocks and fish a bit.
 

Clans are a special thing even if void of game-given purpose with the end of the DS fights (which will eventually return in maybe a better shape and form than the DS mission outposts). Clan recruiting and clan benefits are tightly connected and simply because you fantasize about humongous rosters of obedient soldiers and recruit for it doesn't mean it's DE's fault or the clan system's fault. Options are simple - recruit people you enjoy playing with, but no!!! You want DE to give you tools so you don't have to actually make an effort to know those people before hand. In other words, you want DE to pander to other people's laziness ('cause no point putting effort into knowing your recruits), impatience ('cause you can't just recruit 1 person per day or per week - no, you have to get 1000 in 20 minutes) and desire for grandeur ('cause a guild that doesn't make them feel like gods is pointless, right?!).

It turns out that it is as I initially suspected. You care a lot less about purpose, you just want loyalty and power over your fellow clan mates... 'twas a waste of time and imagination from my part to present all them early ideas, as you don't care about them (if they don't serve your purpose of becoming a GWAMM - Guild Wars reference) and DE probably doesn't check these threads.

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25 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

I think you're assuming everyone and their mothers are fans of excessive control

It's not about "excessive control" in the least. It's about optimal game flow if we're being specific. I'm going to need some specific examples of me implying excessive control. Otherwise, it seems your view of what is considered excessive is completely subjective.

30 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

Now, when Fortuna drops, it should be exactly like the Plains were. I visited them upon Lotus' invite when I reached Earth and I've got my arse handed to me. I concluded that it's a nice place with mean grineer fellows and left to look for that special thing that would turn my Lato into a tank.

You're essentially taking the Dark Souls approach, wherein the player takes the harder route just because they can even though they know it is not optimal. This is very irrational.

33 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

I did return a bit later (and by a bit I mean as I was reaching Neptune on the star chart) to run random low level bounties for crafting materials and mods.

Having access to the lower tier stuff isn't an issue by itself. The issue lies in the fact that even the higher level bounties are open to the new folk. This will only lead to them getting stomped in the higher content if they go solo or being carried and/or a possible burden to others in multiplayer. Helping is one thing, but carrying is a whole other thing. On that same note, MANY people are on record stating that they'd feel a lot better if they knew they were actually contributing to the team rather than being carried.

37 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

These large areas can't be exclusively designed to those were stayed with Warframe since its inception. If anything, they should provide some special  ares - dungeons, if you like - for end-game players that they can enter by crafting a locator/key item that Konzu, Lotus or whoever sends to them as they reach maybe MR20. Then that locator/key thingie would open an otherwise closed door in one of the caves of the Plains (can't make any reference to Fortuna as I have very little knowledge of what's to come). Past that door a seemingly bottomless pit that will act as a loading screen or transition area (in case players would opt to go into the Plains without a pre-formed team) and the tenno will land maybe in Vay Hek's ghoul labs or whatnot.

I never said that the open world areas should be locked off to those who've just played forever. AT MOST, I'm simply saying that there should be SOME kind of prerequisite that SHOWS the player has some experience, a bit of firepower under their belt, and will be able to bring some synergy to the table. Simply put, new areas shouldn't be a spot to "gear up", but rather to add on or improve one's arsenal. As for all of the additions you mention here, I see nothing wrong with that stuff at all.

42 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

Both of you would call being able to enjoy public runs a weakness, if not a flaw. And both of you would want the whole Origin System to revolve around your clan (probably because of being a bad case of control freaks with good intentions ^.^)

Please don't assume things without sufficient evidence. Also, I thought you agreed to NOT attack the person and stick to countering the ideas themselves. I am not a control freak. Personally, that is not my mindset at all. A whole game that revolves around clans (which is already a flawed system), would be ridiculous. The game is "fine" as is with just clan ASPECTS.

47 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

Add to that the fact that DE did state in a few Devstreams that they're working on clan activities (or at least that's what I understood from what they showed there). And on this idea, I'm pretty sure both you and other warlords would rather wait longer for higher quality clan related activities than get an E/SO experience as a filler.

I'm pretty sure that was at the beginning of 2018 btw. It's nearing the end of the year.......That being said, YES - I do not mind waiting for quality changes. The only issue is the radio silence. One can only be left to assume that they either don't care or are busy with other things. In any case, all I'm doing is adding my feedback while they are hopefully working on solutions.

50 minutes ago, Himenoinu said:

You can also take it down a notch with how DE is pandering to this or that category of players. Not everyone's a hardcore gamer and not everyone wants the same things in a game that offers a lot of variety, just like you said. Casuals don't want your levels of dedication in anything Warframe - maybe they don't have the time for it or maybe they just want to gather rocks and fish a bit.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about simple login rewards and the like. I'm talking about actual in-game content to be ran by players in pursuit of goodies. This isn't about being hardcore. This is a simple case of rewarding someone who put in the effort and someone who didn't with the SAME things. It is very fair to say that someone who took x amount of time and effort unlock let's say a node is more deserving of the rewards there vs someone who got taxi'd. Also, I will keep bringing up the topic of casual pandering so long as it's a thing. The truth is the truth no matter how you feel about it. If you don't believe me, think about the whole Prime with Prime promotions. People had to farm those sets (ESPECIALLY Ash lol). I think Ash was given away soon after he got vaulted which screwed many people over all for the sake of pandering. There's been a CLEAR fluctuation of the player base each time so far they've done this. If you can dispute this, please do so.

1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

Clans are a special thing even if void of game-given purpose with the end of the DS fights (which will eventually return in maybe a better shape and form than the DS mission outposts).

Clans ARE NOT special as they are now. You are contradicting yourself a lot here. Not too long ago you stated that you were aware that they're just blueprint hubs......so yeah.

1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

Clan recruiting and clan benefits are tightly connected and simply because you fantasize about humongous rosters of obedient soldiers and recruit for it doesn't mean it's DE's fault or the clan system's fault.

This isn't about DE giving me what I ask for. This is about pointing out that there IS room for improvement. I just gave ideas of how I think they could do so. If you think that there is no room for improvement, then that begs the question of why you'd be in the feedback section to begin with. If you're here to defend the system as is, then I already countered that much earlier...

1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

Options are simple - recruit people you enjoy playing with

That is assuming if a clan is one of those "just for fun" type clans mentioned earlier on. A clan isn't "just for fun" as much as you'd like to believe. It's about working together. I can have fun with anyone, but when it comes to getting things done on the same page, I'd much rather have a reliable partner vs the guy who's gonna run around as a Pink Atlas flinging boulders everywhere. Furthermore, how are you going to recruit people you enjoy playing with when you don't even know them to begin with? Unless you're recruiting players already on your friends list, this seems unintuitive.

1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

but no!!! You want DE to give you tools so you don't have to actually make an effort to know those people before hand. In other words, you want DE to pander to other people's laziness ('cause no point putting effort into knowing your recruits), impatience ('cause you can't just recruit 1 person per day or per week - no, you have to get 1000 in 20 minutes) and desire for grandeur ('cause a guild that doesn't make them feel like gods is pointless, right?!).

I already countered this same accusation before, so I'll be brief with this statement. In an earlier post, I basically said that people CAN lie and stats don't. The point here is that no matter how much time you put in to getting to know people, it could all EASILY be for naught. I had a very good example of hiring a teacher that was a pedo. Check it out. You CAN'T honestly say, that having access to the more detailed info I requested in that post WOULD NOT help this process. I assure you, I CAN get to know people and have done so many times lol. The issues, as you mentioned earlier is time. If something can be done much faster with less words, then why not do it? Furthermore, it's not about being "impatience". The whole point is efficiency. Your exaggerations and accusations here have no basis and you seem to be unwilling to grasp the bigger picture.

1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

It turns out that it is as I initially suspected. You care a lot less about purpose, you just want loyalty and power over your fellow clan mates... 'twas a waste of time and imagination from my part to present all them early ideas, as you don't care about them (if they don't serve your purpose of becoming a GWAMM - Guild Wars reference) and DE probably doesn't check these threads.

We literally have a about half a page (probably a FULL page even) where I go back and forth about TEAMplay/teamwork/jolly cooperation/etc. Also, you know fool well this is NOT a power trip on my part as a clan leader. All I advocated for so far is better tools to do my part and a better system to help, AND reward members. That being said, I'm not going to entertain this any further by providing all the examples where I make such quotes. To be honest, it seems like you've been hurt by some outside force (irl) and just came here to vent with such negative attitude. All I can say is have a good one kiddo.

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