[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[clearskky]

His passive is very uninteresting, I'd have loved to see something like a gated shield. There could've been a gate for every 250 shields for example, maybe with a super brief invulnerability period.

 

I detest Revenant's first ability, enemy enthrallment abilities just make no sense to me when you can just you know, kill them and not rely at all on AI.

Mesmer Skin can be an amazing ability with some tweaks. It shouldn't take this long to cast Mesmer Skin, Iron Skin is leagues better than it in terms of survivability and takes a fraction of a second to cast it. Revenant should also be granted a short invulnerability period with status immunity every time a charge is depleted.

Reave has no right to cost this much energy and take this long to cast. It also carries all the problems with Hydroid's Tidal Surge: It takes the control of your Warframe from your hands, you can't cancel it. Who likes being stuck in a wall for a full second? Reave should turn you into a fog similar to what Wukong has but with a much shorter duration and a high movement speed boost.

Danse Macabre is exhilarating to use, it has become one of my favourite abilities in the entire game. If I had to make any suggestions about it, I'd like to see Dance Macabre adapt to Sentient & Stalker damage resistances as they develop, once they become immune to corrosive the damage type should change to magnetic then gas and so on. But this is purely a flavor suggestion.

[m3stuart]

Thing's i'd actually like to see changed to Revenant.

First off:

Base Stats + Passive.

Spoiler

Passive:

Increase it's base range by 2 meters.

Base stats:

Health/Shield Unchanged.

Energy increased from 125(188) rank 1  to 150(225) rank 30.

Armor increased from 105 to 150 (I believe this is a typo tho).

1. Enthrall

Spoiler

This is a decent ability, but pretty useless when the cap it's 4 thralls at all times.

New:

Revenant  can enthrall up to 4/4/4/4 enemies. These enemies can add up a total of 12/14/16/18 enthralled enemies. Unaffected by power mods.

2.Mesmer Skin

Spoiler

While this is a good ability per se, Toxin/Fire/DoT abilities make it very bad. Not only that, but it's cast time it's so long, it makes it even worse. (Using natural talent it's a waste, so you either change this ability, or it's not going to be used in most cases).

New:

Whenever Mesmer Skin takes damage, it becomes invulnerable for the next 0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second. Affected by Duration mods.

Cast time/Animation speed lowered. (Or don't lower it if your going to add the thing i just mentioned above).

3.Reave

Spoiler

I'd say it's decent, but no. Just like Hydroid's 2, i would never use this. EVER. Unless some changes are made.

New:

First off, the visuals. The Effect's are amazing on this one, but instead of a Rectangle, can u change it to a more of an Ellipse kinda of shape? Similar to Volt's Shield.

Now, to the number part.

If all of the changes of the above come thru, some changes need to be made for this as well.

Energy cost reduced from 75 to 50. (Or instead of reducing it's energy cost, make it half when using Dance Macabre)

Thrall Shield/Health Drain/Restore reduced from 10/20/30/40 to 5/5/10/15%

Duration of the ability increased from 0.25/0.50/0.75/1 seconds to 0.50/0.50/1/1.50 seconds. If this goes thru, with at least some of the changes mentioned above, then this a must.

Something interesting i noticed, is the Windup this ability has while trying to use it. Honestly? Well.. why? Just why, well it can be fixed.

There is only 2 ways to fix this: First one, by greatly reducing it's cast time. Or keep it as it is but it dosen't stop your movement instead while casting it.

4. Dance Macabre

Spoiler

If anything this ability needs, it's nothing. It's already good, has good cast time / great range / damage with the downside being the insane energy consumption. But if you want to buff this ability anyhow don't buff it's damage/range.

All it needs it's energy reduced from 12.5/25 to 10/20 energy per second. Otherwise don't even bother touching this ability. It's good as it is.

That will be all for the Revenant. If those changes go thru, then i'd use all of hes abilities more often. Otherwise, i'll just keep using Dance Macabre until he gets an actual change to any of hes other abilities (inlcuding passive/base stats).

[vFlitz]

Okay, played with him enough to figure out how I want to build him. So here are my thoughts.

Passive: It's thematic I suppose, but has little actual utility. Mesmer skin and (theoretical) ability to recover shields work against making any use of it, and if everything goes wrong, the range is too low to actually save you.

Enthrall: By far the worst ability in his kit. Thralls will die instantly, and even if they didn't, they can't help you in any way other than drawing enemy fire. As the synergies it has with other abilities don't make much sense given the cap of four thralls, my impression is that the cap was a later change made in response to people saying he will be Nyx 2.0. I can only see two solutions. Either up the cap, make them invulnerable to damage from allies and die instantly once a defense/interception wave is over. Or, keep the cap if it's necessary to differentiate him from Nyx, make it convert enemies into allies indefinitely while making them immune to all friendly fire (maybe with the exception of Reave and Danse Macabre), and give them high aggro. That way they'll be a self sustaining meat shield for the Revenant (if one dies, another enemy will take its place via the spreading feature).

Mesmer Skin: The idea here is solid, but there are far too many problems holding it back. Long cast time. No ability to recast. No status immunity. No grace period when a charge is spent. This ability is the only thing that can keep Revenant alive against high level enemies, but as it is it feels more like a chore that you have to do over and over, rather something you want to do. Still, some quality of life changes is all it'd take to make it better.

Reave: My biggest gripe with this one is that the description is misleading. It suggests that the life/shield steal is 40% and more for thralls, but it actually is 9% for normal enemies and 40% for thralls. Another thing to note is that while the enemy is deprived of 9% of their max life/shield, the amount recovered by Revenant is 9% of his max life/shields. It also cannot grant more overshields than the overflow after hitting the shields cap. Combined with the cap on thralls (assuming they're even alive), the sustain aspect of this ability is very lackluster compared to just any about frame that can restore life and/or shields (Trinity, Inaros, Nidus, Volt, Mag, to name a few). As the mobility part of the ability is the only real use, it's incredibly overpriced at base 75 energy cost per cast (the ability to interrupt the movement with another press of 3 is a nice touch, however.) In my opinion, it needs either a major buff or shifting the effect to something else entirely, like granting more Mesmer Skin charges.

Danse Macabre: This ability is the most functional one. It's good at what it does - killing enemies - and makes you look fabulous while doing it. The lack of efficiency compared to other room clearing abilities can be excused by the ability to bring the cost down pretty low, although I do wish it wasn't so helpless against enemies that are even slightly above the Revenant. It requires very little interaction however, which is not necessarily bad as sometimes it's nice to have lazy options, but it does make it get somewhat boring after a while. There are a few things that could work better, though. First of all, the synergy with Enthrall - even if the thralls were still capped at 20 and shields weren't very poor means of survivability on a frame that doesn't have a damage reduction ability - 50 overshields per thrall killed is way too little. Next is the damage taken redirection to beams: thankfully, it works while Mesmer Skin is up (although Mesmer Skin still works against it somewhat, by stunning enemies and making them unable to damage you). But. The potential here is heavily limited by inability to recover Mesmer Skin while Danse Macabre is active, and complete lack of survivability without Mesmer Skin being active. Then the damage adaptation. Corrosive against armored enemies is very nice, but the other two have some drawbacks. While gas is normally good against fodder infested, the presence of a toxic ancient (incidentally, Danse Macabre is pretty bad at dealing with ancients) makes it much less effective. And magnetic against corpus.. Gas would be far better here, but I can understand the theme of magnetic vs shields. Still, the lasers should adapt to something else when hitting unprotected flesh once the shields are down. It could also adapt to either corrosive or radiation against fossilized infested. Corrosive procs have no real use against them but the damage type itself is effective. Radiation on the other hand, although it deals reduced damage against fossilized, it could disable the ancient's supportive capabilities.

(On a side note, while Danse Macabre's reach is fine and I don't mind have a stat to safely decrease, I don't really understand why range affects the lasers' thickness. It seems to serve no actual purpose other than visual?)

My opinion of Revenant is that he definitely has potential, but without some tweaks the only reasons to play him is his looks and Danse Macabre. Mesmer Skin is noticeably inferior to Iron Skin or damage reduction abilities, while Enthrall and Reave don't bring enough to the table to warrant use in his playstyle. Seriously though, when it comes to visuals, he's simply amazing (well.. with the exception of Reave).

[Vuksaa]

I agree with the general consensus around his 2/3/4 however I think people are misinterpreting his 1. The way I see it, its purpose is to easily CC/create chaos among enemies and not build an army that will kill everything on sight. What should kill the enemies are the pillars that spawn from thralls and his 4. And even as of right now, it has a very good use: it can remove auras from packs of enemies. This is most useful on healers, because it actually allows his 4 to kill other infested units.

I don't see the comparison people are drawing between him and nyx, they are very different in the fact that he uses enemies as disposable tools (pillars on thrall deaths, overshields from 4, bonus HP from thralls with 3).

That being said, I think they should enforce this theme of enthralling enemies and discarding them by buffing the on-death effects instead of giving him a generic buff like "thralls deal 100x damage" which might admittedly be good up to a certain point, but doesn't work a lot towards his theme IMO.

An idea would be to remove the hard cap of 4 thralls and make it so that when you get more than 4, the oldest thrall's HP starts decaying (maybe 100 to 0 in like 3 seconds). Would help a lot with spreading pillars and potentially making a group of enemies kill themselves over time through pillars/enthralling.

Another idea would be to make the pillars' damage scale based on the thrall's HP, or the damage dealt to it, and make the damage adapt to enemies (like his 4).

Overall, I love his theme and looks. His abilities are a bit rough around the edges, but I think all he needs is more synergy.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Vuksaa

[sockpuppetclock]

Thrall should just pull a little bit more from the whole "Eidolon" theme and make it so that killed thralls will remain in that spirit form like voms until duration ends.

Edited August 26, 2018 by sockpuppetclock

[Khromm]

For my part, I'm enjoying Twinkletoes (seriously DE, far better name for him), but still agree with most of the posts above. Specific thoughts:

 

Twinkletoes' 1: Not much use when in a group, since it's all too easy for team members to kill the thralls before you actually get any use out of them. In solo on the other hand, they aren't so bad, and will even turn off alarms for you (had it happen in the Kuva Fortress on a solo exterminate run). It's good that teammates *can* kill them inasmuch as if they're the last frenemies standing at the end of a wave, you don't have to wait for the ability to wear off before they can be killed, but it *is* a bit of a wasted slot in group sessions.

 

Twinkletoes' 2: Worth keeping active at all times; being able to passively stun an enemy you haven't actually spotted yet is quite handy. Making his 1 a free shot on that enemy is just an afterthought, since (for me at least) I'm running an efficient build with a large energy pool so's I can run his 4 without running out of energy too soon (if at all).

 

Twinkletoes' 3: Used it a couple of times, didn't even know you could use it while running your 4 (so will have to try that out). Can't say whether or not I like it much yet.

 

Twinkletoes' 4: Modded up for efficiency, power strength, a little range, is fairly nice room-clearance. Kinda puts me in mind of a ballet dancer too much though... hence Twinkletoes. The synergy with his 1 is great in solo play, and if in a group you can get a few thralls and immediately hit the 4 to get the overshield boosters, it's not bad.

 

All in all, I do like him, although I don't see myself becoming a Twinkletoes main any time soon...

[DeMonkey]

29 minutes ago, Nastumi said:

Revenant is not horrendously OP

I was wondering if that would trigger someone enough that they wouldn't actually look at the spoiler.

Congrats on it being you, you get a facepalm. 

[Nastumi]

deleted for the reason of trying to keep the topic clean~ish, and because I prefer to wash dirty laundry in private, not in public.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Nastumi
random dude attempt to feel good

[DeMonkey]

10 minutes ago, Nastumi said:

errr, I did look at the spoiler you know

Of course you did, Sunshine. Of course you did. 

That's why you felt the need to point out that I was wrong and he wasn't ''horrendously OP'', despite the fact that the spoiler makes it very clear I'm being ironic.

[ShinTechG]

Alright so about Revenant, first things first, loved the lore and quest. Glad we got some more content but, I feel like other frames deserved more attention before bringing a completely new frame. Anyways, on to the main point of this post, Revenants 4th Ability: Danse Macabre

I really don't get why this ability was added into the game the way it is now. Yes, it is powerful and everyone is excited for the flashy lights and making jokes about spinning to win but seriously, an ability that automatically changes damage type based on the enemy it is hitting?! How much lazier can the playstyle for this be?!

Why not make it so that the damage that the lasers do are based on the Warframe's energy color??  Warframes like Excalibur and Chroma that have elemental damage type based on their energy color was a much better implementation in my opinion. It helps players actually learn what enemies are weak/resistant to and adds more uniqueness of builds and customization. If this is the new direction of Warframe's abilities, why not just make Excalibur's exalted blade do damage based on the enemy’s weakness? I mean is this game really that hard at the moment that we need abilities like this? lol

This is just my opinion on Revenant. As for the other abilities and the frame overall, I just personally find it all boring and not suiting the pace of what the game is today. Anyways, thank you DE for ongoing content and a great overall game 👍

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by ShinTechG

[DeMonkey]

Of all the things to have a gripe about with his 4th ability, the damage adaptability being a feature is not one that I ever thought would appear.

Please note that Revenant requires players to play high level bounties, and as such isn't exactly farmable by newer players. No one will learn lazy modding from him simply due to how much of the game must be played before you get to him.

Rhino teaches lazy modding, not Revenant.

[SethCypher]

The biggest problem I see is his 1 ability. Even if I just want to get thralls so that I can generate Overshield pickups for my teammates when I use 4, its incredibly tedious and annoying when a teammate just comes in and kills them. I wouldn't even be bothered so much but getting a thrall to do damage to pass on the debuff is just so finicky and slow that you just feel like that guy in the room who keeps getting in the way. If 1 could give you more thralls, and your thrall cap could be increased by either mods or the base amount, then I think it would be way better.

Right now, his kit is really clunky mainly because his 1 is pretty much supposed to be the entire point of the Warframe.

Edited August 26, 2018 by SethCypher

[Shutterfingers]

does rev's 1 seem bugged to anyone else? half the time the enemies don't take any damage from me, sometimes only melee. the icon doesn't appear on their heads periodically or the energy pillar doesn't activate upon death, at one point i had 5 minions. 

also also if you go into operator form while his 2 is active the number of charges disappears from the icon for a bit.

[Tsoe]

its a sentient thing dont get carried away its not the usual WF we have here

[ShinTechG]

7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Of all the things to have a gripe about with his 4th ability, the damage adaptability being a feature is not one that I ever thought would appear.

Please note that Revenant requires players to play high level bounties, and as such isn't exactly farmable by newer players. No one will learn lazy modding from him simply due to how much of the game must be played before you get to him.

Rhino teaches lazy modding, not Revenant.

True very good point. I agree about the bounties part, but at the same time, these Warframes are accessible  instantly with platinum. 

[--RV--Dopekoke]

Revenant is Sentient based, they even explain it on the update page.

"* To invoke a more Sentient theme with Revenant, the last detail to change since past Devstream presentations is his Danse Macabre Damage. Sentients in the wild can often adapt to your attacks...so the damage output of the Danse Macabre now can adapt to certain enemy defenses!
3 special adaptations exist for the damage types of Danse Macabre:  "

[ShinTechG]

Just now, Dopekoke said:

Revenant is Sentient based, they even explain it on the update page.

"* To invoke a more Sentient theme with Revenant, the last detail to change since past Devstream presentations is his Danse Macabre Damage. Sentients in the wild can often adapt to your attacks...so the damage output of the Danse Macabre now can adapt to certain enemy defenses!
3 special adaptations exist for the damage types of Danse Macabre:  "

Hi yes, I understand the lore behind it. Makes sense but, if we are going to go based on lore, shouldn't Warframes have certain resistances to damages now lol? im just saying, but i get your view

[Xemgoa]

Let me first say that, even though the quest was short, I love the newest Warframe, Revenant, and his current kit. But the way he performs is held back and lackluster when it comes to Reave & Enthrall.

From what I understand as to what might be one reason why is that there might be a small group of people who don't want Revenant to perform better than Nyx... even though that doesn't really matter, Nyx excels well in distraction, possessing an enemy that best suits her needs in a tactical manner, and throwing enemies attacks right back at them, while Revenant is building up an entire army to assist him in combat, stealing life and shields to prolong his own life, and can clear out fodder/weak enemies without being too powerful to sweep out the toughest enemies on the field.

I think people are focusing too much on the idea of his Nyx's "Mind Control" and Revenants "Enthrall". Forgive me if I am shortsighted, but that is dumb and a bit narrowminded. I think I recall that Nyx will likely get some improvements so we'll see where this goes, otherwise making one Warframes perform worse than another is a dumb thing to do.

With that preface, I would like to offer some constructive criticism about Revenants "Reave" and "Enthrall" ability.

First off, Enthrall has the potential to be a useful ability in solo missions, or missions where there is going to be a heavy incoming of opposition... but I think 4 is way too little and... I hate to admit it, it comes off as a bit useless. Not to mention that your allies can kill your thralls, and will not stop to take the time to notice the visual over your victims head and cleave through them.

I am pretty sure it has been suggested, but how about we bump that 4 thralls at a time to 7 or 12 thralls at a time? 4 is too little, in that the premise of the thralls affecting more enemies that are attacked by the thralls handicaps hard and that is too little a squad to work with in a fire fight. Wasn't there 20 at a time during one dev stream? Was that really too much? The enemies you possess don't get a boost to their stats to make them remarkable and I believe when one dies at a higher cap, another enemy can be possessed through Revenant or a thrall to take that place.

But another suggestion I want to make is that the Thralls should be invulnerable to ally damage, the same way Nyx's "Mind Control"'d victim won't take care damage when possessed (Albeit that Nyx's victim "stores" up damage that it would otherwise take then and there, and then receives the maximum damage it would have when the ability wears off or is deactivated), then have it so that only Revenant can kill them in their Enthrall state when he uses Dance Macabre or through general gunfire.

 

Second, Revenant's "Reave" ability is... a bit clunky and slow to start, and from what I can gather, steals too little of health and shields. Is it possible to speed up the action and make the actions look more fluid? If not, at least add an Invulnerability period during the entire ability phase? And also bump up how much Revenant steals when using Reave?

Third, and this wasn't originally part of the criticism, but that Mesmer Skin is an excellent ability, albeit the ability only having 10 charges is not enough, in a vague sense. I can understand why, in that if changed too much, it'd function like "Iron Skin", but is it possible to bump the charges up to 15 or 20 of them depending on what dictates how much Revenant receives when activating the ability? Or if it must be 10 charges at a time, a "grace" period between each expenditure so that they last long enough? The idea being that when one charge is used to stun an enemy, there is a 0.50 - 1.50 second period where Revenant remains invulnerable to harm and a waiting time before the next charge is ready to be spent, so that it doesn't get eaten through when fighting enemies that use weaponry with high fire rate.

 

Overall, his Mesmer Skin and Dance Macabre are fantastic. I ask of you, leave those alone! You did great there-- really, bias aside, you did fine there. Though I think Mesmer Skin needs an additional change from what I can see; Dance Macabre is absolutely fine as it is, leave that alone 🙂
 

Great work, DE team, and have a wonderful day!

[Fallen_Echo]

Literally the only skill worth using on this cursed frame and you are here already wanting to nerf it?

Go to Void.

[--RV--Dopekoke]

1 minute ago, ShinTechG said:

Hi yes, I understand the lore behind it. Makes sense but, if we are going to go based on lore, shouldn't Warframes have certain resistances to damages now lol? im just saying, but i get your view

which ones and why plus, its not my view, its DE's view, in my opinion, having revenant spin with lasers is weird, i'd rather have him transform into a semi-eidolon with a new set of attacks that are sentient based, like lasers could be one but not like the one we have now.  That's my view.

[KirukaChan]

43 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

True very good point. I agree about the bounties part, but at the same time, these Warframes are accessible  instantly with platinum.  

If some newbie credit card warrior is going to buy a Frame at atrocious Market prices, before even understanding how elements work, there's really no point trying to make them not be lazy.

[ReinAxefury]

1 hour ago, ShinTechG said:

Why not make it so that the damage that the lasers do are based on the Warframe's energy color??

Nice joke, there's people asking for this to not be a thing all the time for frames that already use this (like chroma) and you want Revenant to be one more of them? no ty.

[ShinTechG]

2 minutes ago, KirukaChan said:

If some newbie credit card warrior is going to buy a Frame at atrocious Market prices, before even understanding how elements work, there's really no point trying to make them not be lazy.

I agree partially. They may skip the grind to obtain but as far as building and learning with the frame vs enemies, that part is still to be done manually

[MystikNeko]

The Revenants abilities should stay how they are now or I want my Plat back. 

 

That frame is a sentient frame dude. 

OK you are not amused about his for. But then I want the passive:

 

The frame adapts to different damage types. Would be fair

[ShinTechG]

3 minutes ago, ReinAxefury said:

Nice joke, there's people asking for this to not be a thing all the time for frames that already use this (like chroma) and you want Revenant to be one more of them? no ty.

 

Ya i just personally don't like abilities that do too much automation in one 🙂