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[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread


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5 hours ago, Maryph said:

This is actually quite a nice idea to balance his one (Which was the base idea of the frame, having an army, not a "press 4 and AFK" type frame)

thank you  just a thought i had during a survival mission after playing with his 1 it gives him still his 4 thralls and they follow him around while he has a small army of fanatic fighters kinda fits the sentient turning stuff against their owners 

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Mesmer Skin

I had an idea to make it more generally viable:

Whenever a charge is lost, the damage immunity could last a brief moment (say, 1 second) before a new charge can be depleted again. This would make it not so useless against rapidfire enemies, but still superior against hardhitting ones.

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18 hours ago, Sesaline said:

Why did DE give Revenant an AoE damage toggle skill? How is this any different from the old WoF or Quake Banshee? It can kill through terrain and obstacles with a base of 50 meters.  

50 minutes ago, kyori said:

Yes, he is the latest press 4 (after Saryn rework) + spin to win frame. In the 5 years of game development, you'd think something is learnt.

 

You guys do know that its a flat line skill with zero defense, right?

Tested in the simularcum and across the starchart, any unit what is 0.5 meter above or below it wont get damaged at all. It also worth noting that it doesnt have infinite punchthrought and from tests i can say that many obstacles can block it completely and even enemies are capatable of body blocking their allies.

This skill also offers zero survivability meaning that everything what shoots at you are capatable of killing you and you cannot recast any abilities while using it so as soon as your skin charges go off you are dead. The base movement speed is barely enough to run away from an ancient and just 1 disruptor or 1 toxic ancient is enough to make this skill useless against the infested.

The only faction what it works constantly against is the grineer but they are the ones who deal heavy damage so as fast as they level up you are dead.

 

Now if you compare it to old wof or quake banshee both of those had CC to keep the users safe and wof even let ember to use her guns or other skills to deal with the enemy, even the old spin2win had larger vertical area and much more power with the ability to keep enemies CC'd for good. Due to lenghty cast times as fast as you stop to kill a guy with your gun you are dead.

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il y a une heure, seprent a dit :

thank you  just a thought i had during a survival mission after playing with his 1 it gives him still his 4 thralls and they follow him around while he has a small army of fanatic fighters kinda fits the sentient turning stuff against their owners 

And that's totally what was shown during devstream 113, they said the ability would have a cap, but 4 isn't a horde.
And not mentioning the cap into the ability description is really deceitful.

Edited by Maryph
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9 hours ago, atejas said:

The cast time is fine with natural talent but NT shouldn't be mandatory. It's basically similar to tailwind or tidal surge, but those abilities have an instant startup, so there's no reason for the delay on Reave.

Reaving enthralled enemies does way more damage than it needs to (considering it's not meant to be a dps ability) but heals much less reliably than it should. Really bizarre ability.

  Honestly I think the damage you do to enthralled targets is fine and I really hope it stays. Since it's a nice perk to have. It synergies well with his 4 and like everything else with this ability the damage only matters on enthralled enemies. In retrospect if you look at the high energy cost and slow start up on the ability I wouldn't call them a bad trade off. Personally wouldn't mind keeping the slow start up if it meant not sacrificing the the true damage it deals.

Another solution I could think of proposing is to slightly lower the start up speed and add a short cool down to help prevent spamming the ability. If that's what they're were worried about.

If anything, the more I play Rev the more I think he'd be fine if
1.we had six or so thralls
2.the damage pillars from thralls scaled better. (specifically in terms of weakening enemy defenses)
3.The amount of charges we can get scaled better with power strength.
and more polish on his 2 (i.e. everything previously mentioned in my original post on page 21)
4. We got 100+ more shields for each Thrall killed while in DS.

To put it bluntly I think Revenant works best when he's played as a anti-enemy scaling warframe.
His 1, and 2 hobble enemy offences and his (1,2),4 hobble, and destroy enemy defense.
 

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9 minutes ago, Maryph said:

And that's totally what was shown during devstream 113, they said the ability would have a cap, but 4 isn't a horde.
And not mentioning the cap into the ability description is really deceitful.

ikr he really doeant "seduce" as many as he should

Edited by Kagemitsukenshi
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With people speaking of Devstream 113 I was reminded that they removed something without stating why (I think).

His 2 used to have an added effect (the parts on the back), but it was just taken out afterwards.

w0bxBiOh.jpg

M8BlJHBh.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

With people speaking of Devstream 113 I was reminded that they removed something without stating why (I think).

His 2 used to have an added effect (the parts on the back), but it was just taken out afterwards. 

1

Nice catch. That really would help as a clear visual on if I have charges up or not. Maybe a performance hit? I can't see it but maybe? Wonder what's up there.

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Having now actually played Revenant for a few days, I decided to throw my hat into the ring as well:

 

Current Passive: Like many before me have pointed out, his current passive is kind of pointless. It's mainly just a gimmick that doesn't actually help you even if it does trigger. For one, the shockwave seems to have a bit of travel time, so you'll usually die by the time enemies hit the floor. And the range, well, to be honest, I can't really tell if the range is simply terribly short, or if it simply never triggers when enemies are in the proximity, or if it maybe has some other unmentioned conditions for triggering.

New Passive: Like many others, I'd also prefer something that could be considered a callback to his Sentient nature. A variant of Sentient damage adaptation. What I have in mind is basically a damage reduction that is applied before shields and can theoretically reach 100% for a single damage type. So, the more you're hit by a certain damage type, the more resistance against it you'll gain, but capping at 100% total.

That means that, for example, if you were to be hit by puncture and puncture only for a certain duration, you'll eventually reach complete damage immunity against puncture. However, if you were to be hit by puncture and impact to an equal degree, it would only be able to reach 50% damage resistance for puncture and impact, both. In other words, that 100% damage resistance has to be shared between all applied damage types. And also, it's weighted, much like how status procs on weapons are weighted as well.

If you're not hit by anything for a while, your damage resistance will start to slowly decay again. Another thing is that it's active even while Mesmer Skin is active, so you don't just get oneshot the moment it pops, in high level play.

Further balancing can be done via gain/decay ratios.

 

Enthrall: Again, like many before have pointed out, a number of 4 is just way too small to be useful for... anything, really. Not enough to really use as traps, can't really spread by themselves because a single gust is enough to wipe out the whole group(?)...

They're really just another gimmick at this point.

So first things first, the number needs to be significantly increased. My absolute bottom line would be 10, but I'm actually thinking more 14-18. Numbers may or may not (if 14-18, probably not) scale with Ability Strength.

I don't think giving them any sort of protection against allied fire would really be necessary anymore at this point. But if yes, then I'd suggest that only the last remaining Thrall will become immune to squad damage, but not to your own.

On the flip side, once the Thrall number has hit the cap, they get some sort of crazy damage multiplier that could, for example, be based on their total EHP. Alternatively, make their damage scale with the currently active number of Thralls. This way, they'll still have some uses outside of simply spreading the affliction.

Thralls now have an individual duration instead of a shared duration.

The energy pillars created after a Thralls death now scale off their total EHP, on top of their regular damage. Or alternatively, the damage now scales off the EHP of the enemy that walks into it, on top of their regular damage.

Increase the base radius of the energy pillars and/or give them the ability to pull in enemies from slightly outside their current range. Similar to Mag's Bullet Attractor or maybe Tether Grenades.

(Optional) Killed Thralls will now explode, doing damage in a reasonable radius, before turning into energy pillars. Explosion damage may or may not scale with their total EHP and Ability Strength.

(Optional) Energy pillars have a chance to spread the affliction.

 

Mesmer Skin: Can disappear faster than you can blink in high level mission. And by the time you finished recasting it, chances are, it's already half gone again.

First, increase base number of charges to 10, at the very least.

After a charge is used, there is now a 3 second gate before the next one can get used.

Enemies that use a charge are now automatically converted. Should the Thrall cap have already been hit, they will be stunned as they are now, and possibility A: be opened up to finishers, or B: return energy equal to the amount you would save by them being converted automatically, upon being killed.

His previous shockwave passive is now moved to the beginning portion of the casting animation, with a range of about 25m, that may or may not be affected by Ability Range.

 

Reave: An actually fairly decent ability on paper, but somewhat horrible in execution. Clunky and way too expensive for what it actually does.

First, should be instant even outside of Danse Macabre.

Reduce energy cost to 40 while allowing it to recover 10 points of energy for every enemy caught up in it, much like Nidus' Virulence.

Increase leech effect on regular enemies to 10% while reducing it to 25-30% on Thralls.

If in mid-air, casting the ability will remove falling momentum and let you zoom off to wherever you last aimed the moment it was used.

(Optional but oh pretty please~) Once Reave has reached its MAX range without deactivation, it turns into a channeled ability, now consuming energy by distance travelled.

 

Danse Macabre: To be honest, I don't think this ability should actually be touched. Certainly not buffed in such a way that it actually let's you use all of his other ability while in it or in way that would allow you to use it 24/7. It's boring enough as is. I'd rather have more incentives to not be stuck using this ability. And hopefully through buffing his other abilities instead of nerfing this one into the ground. If anything, the only thing I can think of is to make the damage decay rate from received damage decay more slowly and/or allow it to also ramp up its damage from dealing it.

------------------------------------------

This last one is an alternative for his 1 I'd really love to see, but doubt I will. So I'm putting it at the end instead:

Since Thralls can now be created automatically by Mesmer Skin, Enthrall is now replaced by a Vomvolyst summon, with (hopefully) a unique design.

Vomvolyst's will always stay close to Revenant.

Health and attack damage is affected by Ability Strength.

You'll spawn 1/2/3/4 Vomvolyst's depending on rank. Number unaffected by Ability Strength.

Summon is duration based with 15/20/25/30 seconds (or higher) depending on rank. Numbers affected by Ability Duration.

Ability can only be recast when duration either ends or all Vomvolyst's are killed.

Vomvolyst's and their weapons are moddable like Sentinels and come with their own 3 unique precepts. A firing precept, a dash attack precept (like what we see them using already) and a sacrifice like precept, that allows them to use one Vomvolyst's life in order to revive a downed teammate within range (possibly affinity range?).

Animal Instinct and Vacuum can be used.

Regen cannot.

(Optional) Turn into a ghost form upon death that can either allow them to keep using their utility abilities but while having reduced weapon damage, or have them function as a sort of downed form they'll automatically revive from after a few seconds, with limited reusability.

(Optional) Will drop energy restoring Sentient Cores upon death.

 

And if worst comes to worst, just get Pablo to help. :p

Edited by StealthyCARNAGE
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I played Revenant and there’s a bug where if you use Mesmer Skin, the enemies would act like you are Invisible and don’t attack you. They can’t take damage while this bug is happening until you Enthrall them and you attack. Hoping you guys look at that.

Edited by VPrime96
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To me, the only thing that needs a rework is his 1 and his 2.
 

Make the 2 enthrall foes when they contact you, and significantly increase the cap of ennemies that can be enthralled to 20 maybe.
Saryn can spread to 30+ ennemies, why can't we just have an army of minions, plus the spores of saryn's aren't under a cooldown, and they can be considered as a massive CC when they're spreaded around an entire room.

So why the revenant can't enthrall more than 4 dudes, I just don't undersand, 20 is FINE as long as you keep the friendly fire on them, or maybe make them take less damage with firendly fire, but when you pass through them with the wall, it kills them instantly while giving you health/shields.

Is was first shown as a leader of a zombie army and with a massive CC as for his 4, now it's a laser ball of death, but we already have too much of thosr frames, and we all know where they end, right next ember because you just nerf them instead of balancing and creating a synergie between the abilities.

Please, let it be what it should be, an army commander.

It seems like you just released the frame as it is because you ran out of idea with it, so you decided to let the community what should be changed/added to it.
Right now the revenant is closer to a WIP frame (ability side, no design side).
Yep, lasers are cool, but it's the only thing useful with it, and it'll be a forgotten frame when you'll decide to nerf it...
So please, don't do it, and listen.

Edited by Maryph
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Having tried Revenant, he is... another press 4 frame. Dissapointing.

His 1 is just pointless in a group. my teammates kill them quickly or i do when i am distracted.

His 2 is well... Bad cast animation that has nothing to do with what the ability does (i mean he looks like nidus firing off his larva) on top of it being way too slow for a defensive ability. and it being charge based means anything with high ROF or DOT just makes the ability useless.

His 3 looks bad. Its a wall of smoke. thats it. I thought the ideia was to make it look like a life draining cloud. if that ideia was scrapped then bring it back cause it just looks bad. And its expensive to boot, especially considering the return on it.

His 4 is not a bad ability its just boring past the initial novelty. its press 4 and forget all over again.

 

Would suggest changing the mind control mechanic to be replaced with spawning our very own Vomvalysts, and then just use them to fuel his abilities via sacrificing them much like the teralysts use them.

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23 hours ago, Sesaline said:

A terrible meme. Seeing a Rev in my squad makes me cringe. Hearing them spin makes me cringe. He needs a serious fix to be taken seriously. I have zero interest at all in getting this frame as it stands now.

Lol, take a walk, he's really not that bad.

If you're in rant mode try Khora, there is a basket case.

That said, sure, you're not interested, which is fine.

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I laughed a lot from everything you said in the main post except the part on how is different of WoF. They changed WoF because you were able to go AFK or nuke low-mid lvl enemies easily or ruin the fun for new players or whatever, and now they released WoF 2.0 with Revenant.

Though you can still move while using Revenant 4, is just like the old WoF, you can go AFK if you want and let it farming while you do other things.

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3 hours ago, Madway7 said:

With people speaking of Devstream 113 I was reminded that they removed something without stating why (I think).

His 2 used to have an added effect (the parts on the back), but it was just taken out afterwards.

w0bxBiOh.jpg

M8BlJHBh.jpg

The Eidolon tendrils are still there when you cast your 2, but they appear to only show up clearly on your left shoulder and they're generally much harder to make out against the smoke.

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I see a lot of potential in this frame as a minion based frame. His 1 creates minions and his other abilities interact with said minions in some way and I love the synergy/concept but think not so great execution.

 

1. Possibly make recastable to bring more minions in? Minions do their best to stick somewhat close to you, your like the eidolon and the minions are your vomvalists

Drasticly increase max number of minions, originally you said y'all were thinking about 20 and I got excited because I love playing as minionmancer characters. Up to you the max number but would definitly make it over 10 unranked/minimum (Nekros gets 7)possibly max number can be effected by mods( ?efficiency? Strength seems like it would make unbalanced. Same energy cost but you get more minions for same energy amount)and you can go over 20 if you build that way? If having that many minions is going to mess with dps in an unfavorable way treat them like mirage clones where they do less percentage damage (power strength mods effects)

2. Needs more charges and some kind of indicator who is open to become free minion or possibly auto-enthrall.

3. Actually like overall adds some survivability/self healing/mobility  maybe just a tweak of the numbers or possibly add knockdown effect?

4. I honestly dont know what to say about this one it can clear a room in a few seconds at lower levels and it interacts with your minions in some way. Maybe just a straight number tweak. I like the modifying damage based on what its hitting it kinda fits with sentient theme.

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3 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Nice catch. That really would help as a clear visual on if I have charges up or not. Maybe a performance hit? I can't see it but maybe? Wonder what's up there.

I'd laugh if it was a bug and those bits are meant to be there, just having that little bit on the shoulder feels really weird

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My only big issue with him is that having only 4 thralls is not enough, specially when your thralls can enthrall enemies. Meaning that the abilitie loses its use after having 4 thralls and part of the use of his second too (the first ability being free when enemies are stunned). Maybe his one could also allow us to actually control them, for example if you hold 1 you can choose if you want your thralls to attack other enemies or just to be like body guards and stay close to you. 

There is a lot of potential in this frame but it feels like it is being restricted. 

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