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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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As it stands right now, the number of thralls should either have a larger cap, or scale in some way with power strength. I completely understand the decision to take his army down from a whopping 20 down to a significantly smaller number, but increasing that cap to seven (similar to Nekros' shadows), or anything ranging from 7-10 would be helpful to him. Four simply just isn't enough as a lot of others have said.

Otherwise, I'm having a great time with this frame. Right now, that's the only issue I have with him. I'll continue to update this post if there's anything else I'd like to bring up.

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2 minutes ago, VorteX8 said:

It is contagious, but by the time I've casted it on something and let it spread, Its usually dead. I don't think it taunts either which would have been a better survivability for late game.

Then you're fighting low-level stuff for what it's for. Past level 120 you get a lot of survivability from it. It even works on sentients and vomvalysts. 

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Ok Im a ps4 warframe player But I am currently watching Brozime stream for Reverant abilities and I have a few suggestions to his abilities. 

#1. Replace Enthrall with Vomvalyst call. This abilities allows Reverant to call a certain amount of Vomvalyst to come to his aid and allow Reverent to switch what they do like Khora cat. And do 1 of the following  and switch in between.

A. enemy control. It takes every 3 sentients to latch themselves and control 1 (will be reduced based on strength) enemy so if we make the ability based on duration and strength We can push for the Vomvalyst to say 45-60 seconds and have up to 9 sentients respectively and like Nova 1 based on your duration can increase.

B. Shield recovery . It just recover reverant shield I have no need to explain any more then that.

C. Attack....If any of you need me to explain what attacking means you shouldn’t even be playing this game in fact Go to School Summer over!

#2. Move Reave here for I think This ability is fine but it needs more range cause the range I saw was lack luster and could use work and elevation like brozime said seem acquard.

#3. Again with (face palm) Danse Macabe Move that to 3 but should be made for a visual and mechanical change.

 Lose the ballerina spin and instead make it as a aim mechanic  where it damages similarly to how it is now.

#4. The Big reason why Im making this! Have Mesmer skin put here BUT! Because its really not that great. instead like the ability actually do what sentients do at the fall mechanic.

When Reverant actives Mesmer skin he still become enveloped in sentient energy but instead when his health takes damage he stacks on how much damage he makes kinda like how harrow 4 works so Imagine that but instead until he actually looses all his health he goes on his knees and makes a huge Radiation explosion just like a Eidolon and makes a HUGE AOE Radiation proc in the entire facility based on your range, Duration, and Strength. You can only have a MAX of 4 take downs until you actually fall and be in need to be picked back up by an ally. Since you cant deactivate this ability your health will constantly stack, which means even if you have like 550 health and then go to like 24 health if you recover your health up back to normal; you will continue to gain stack until you fall.

Synergy Time!

A. If you have your 4 activated while your 1 is activated you can aim at your sentients press 4 and give some of your stacked energy to strengthen them. Or like Atlas aim at your sentients (Cause I would assume you would want to keep some of them around) destroy the one you pick and recover some of your health back. (Based on health and strength)

B. When you have lost all your health, during your explosive radiation Procing You can activate your 2 and then based on your range can go into the ground and travel to that location and reveal yourself coming from the ground. (Based on your 2 range). But if you dont activate it during that time you just get back up where you fallen at.

 Ok For the Passive ability I think its fine but if it was to be changed It be awesome while his shield is active he is immune to all status procs again since he’s a Sentient inspired Warframe.

  Give your thoughts about what you think of my idea. Im not good at numbers so I have no idea how much damage or how long somethings should last cause I would make it unrealistic. DE If your seeing this I know there’s NO way you would make changes to what you already made especially if its this drastic but if you ever can make it in the future like a year from now that would be amazing! Also Love your game I always play it. Big Fan for life DE!! (Not a big fan of Channeling removal though)

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Anyone else have an issue that he costs 325p in the market? 

Personally I would have gotten him if he was 225 like Nidus, but 325 without the alt helm seems steep. 

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So I'll preface this by stating that I've had an account for years, but literally posted like one other time and I thought I'd drop in and provide some feedback - in order of what I believe to be the best to worst.

personally quite enjoy Revenant, and I think that his 4 is in a good place. The damage is satisfactory without buffs and seems to scale quite well, and when built correctly even the extra channelling drain isn't too significant. 

His 2 is disappointing to me only in the way that instead of it being a DR effect, it's charges of invulnerability. Otherwise, it's quite useful when used in appropriate circumstances and seems to last longer than I thought it would.

His 3 provides nice mobility in his 4, but it's a shame that the health drain effect caps out so low. Being able to mod for increased drain would provide further interaction with his 1, and bring a few more gameplay oppurtunites to the table such as nuking single targets at high levels (being able to instantly reduce a level 150 Nox's health to 0 would be very satisfying).

His 1 is the biggest issue here, and from what I'm seeing on this forum, Reddit and in game it's the ability most people have a problem with. Simply stated, 4 thralls is entirely too low. Especially when you consider that not only are enemies dying rapidly around you from your teammates, you're also supposed to kill enemies affected by your 1 with your 4 so you can get overshields. My suggestion is to increase the cap back to 20 like you were toying with originally (you were on to a good thing!) or make the ability an AoE burst that maybe caps at 4 but allow your Thralls to enthrall other enemies beyond the cap.

 

Thanks for all the hard work you do. 

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Thrall's minion cap is extremely low. But the most annoying thing about this Warframe is that Thralls do not have any sort of added HP or damage mitigation like Nyx's Mind Control. In groups this move absolutely worthless, and it's already not very good solo.

His 2 and 3 could have decent synergy, but with the right setup his 4 is eclipsing the rest of his skills.

Honestly, it just reminds me about Nyx's Absorb augment being added and making her basically a tankbot. We had a second chance a a summoner/minion-based frame that just doesn't work so you slap a 4 that's mega powerful and it's all the warframe is about.

I may have rushed the pieces/blueprint but I did drop all the components, so working for this amiss the buggy and vague quest is extremely underwhelming.

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I think the playstyle they were going for based off the current designed was to 1st, mesmer skin, use enthrall to start that process of stunning cc/survivability, then danse for DPS, use reave while danse to heal up if needed, or just to use outside of it, I don't see much point in spamming it with 4 its just too inconsisent and when you run a 278 or 300% duration build for efficiency and damage you end up shooting waaay to far to really have it be of use. Perhaps in the like lvl 100 range it works a bit better but I don't think the thrall's taunt, I'll need to test some more, but if they don't it would make doing lvl 100 content pointless, if they do then this is a frame that kind of like nidus only starts to shine in later game, I do like that having 328% power strength gives like 8,200 damage a second boosted =p

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Just... wait till the Warframe drops for us. It's 100% certain they will tweak him in the following weeks.

 

PS: Those radical changes will never happen. Too much work

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Like most people have said enthrall just has too small a cap, I think it should have at least 10 thralls or maybe 6 thralls + strength scaling instead to be a decent ability, they can't even infect others properly as they reach the cap in a millisecond then the whole 4 man "horde" is auto killed by an ally using a gun.

 

Mesmer skin has way too many problems, in most fights the ability has a shorter duration than the cast time as the charges are burnt from high firerate weapons, the ability works well on snipers and bombards like we could expect but that rarely happens as the grunts make the ability disable way before the missile makes contact.

Other problems with mesmer skin is the whole stun then 1 combo is very clunky, I feel like you should add an auto target so when you cast 1 it auto points you to the closest Mesmer stunned target, 90% of the time you tank a bullet and spends the next 3 seconds trying to find the guy who shot you, then you cast your 1 and then bam mesmer has burned through all 10 of my charges for that free thrall, in short the whole ability just doesn't work that well in a large firefight which is where Revenant should be wrecking havoc with a plague.

 

Reave feels downright broken, I fly into a horde of 7+ guys + with 3 thralls in the mix and I heal on average 100 or less shields/health, sometimes I heal for 30's, it feels so random that I wonder why this ability exists?, it's too slow for an escape and way to weak for a form of sustain, maybe make it proc the death clouds on thralls even when they are alive so you can get more damage zones?

 

Danse macabre feels pretty decent, I feel like it could offer more stats on the ability screen, I have no idea what half of this ability even does, it doesn't tell me the % damage absorb or how much damage goes into the beams when I get hurt, no stats on the overshield gain either, maybe make it leach shields from thralls then grant an overshield core when a thrall is killed?

 

On the passive I feel like he should get his old one back, I feels like he should get his energy cap based lifesteal, the current one feels pretty worthless as it's effect goes against the frames design, you shouldn't be losing your shields in the first place, you NEED your shield as sustain is hard to come by, his Reave provides less healing than red healing orbs most the time.

You could add a cool passive like when his shields breaks he surges with Sentient energy and grants all allies in 5 meters 50 energy(5 second cooldown), this would give a minor support role and give you the energy for a mesmer skin, lifestrike or reave in a pinch, this wouldn't be op as they have long cast times which make it not an auto escape button combo when in danger.

 

On some other problems I feel like augments could fix many of his other issues, e.g. auto enthrall on mesmer skin, energy gain on Reave etc. 

 

On the whole this frame is a huge mess, his one is very useless in most fights, his 2 sometimes is great like vs corpus or infested but vs grineer it's very weak, the secondary effect is almost redundant due to the games pace and large enemy blobs blocking the attacker, his 3 is literally useless since bullet jumping is faster and doesn't cost me 75 energy, danse macabre is a good ability but the ability does not do what is intended, you can't make a horde then pull a reaper and death blossom while sustain from your kills, your thralls auto dies then a ballista or bombard insta gib you after a few lancer decimate your mesmer skin.

 

I feel his kit defeats the purpose of his other abilities, you gain meatshields which you kill for shields and damage zones but by doing so you kill your shields and meatshields while the damage zones kill future shields and meatshields, since you are spinning and you only have 4 thralls your entire combo ends in half a second leaving you vulnerable, you need a larger horde, you spend more time getting an army than their lifespan, hell keep the 4 man cap and maybe let the damage pillars infect people with the thrall plague?

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I'm disappointed a bit with Revenant. Here's my list of things I'd change/don't like but not sure how to fix.

1: His passive seems counter to how his stats and play style are setup. A stun when he loses shields? His style encourages you to never lose shields by draining enemies and he has a huge amount of shields as it is. I'd adjust it and make it so if he takes a certain amount of shield damage it procs, otherwise you'll just rarely ever see it except in late game play.

2: Enthrall and Mesmer Skin are just really awkward and clunky. Enthrall you have to target an enemy and it just feels so slow to do so. Meanwhile, you have a stun that goes off from any hit. Where is that enemy that got stunned? I gotta find em, target em, and hope that my stun hasn't worn off before I can make em a thrall. Maybe include a sort of passive radius around Revenant when he uses Enthrall, and any enemies that are within that radius that are stunned get Enthralled to make it a bit easier to pull off?

3: Danse Macabre's animation is just... so not bad ass. It looks pretty lame to me. This one I'm not too sure on, but, maybe do something where he curls up and does the lasers, kinda like Shadow Stalker's laser drone. Seeing him twirling about, while it fits with the whole "danse" name just doesn't scream bad ass space ninja. It kinda just scream laser ballerina. Which could be interesting in its own right, but, not as a Warframe IMO.

4: Thralls just get obliterated by allies.I'd say turn off ally ability to kill Revenant's thralls, otherwise it's difficult to impossible to plan out your death fields.

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Yeah I don't understand the passive either, he has all this natural high shield, low armor, it's great as a last chance get off of me move for a passive but that seems like a passive that rarely going to be used. It makes me almost want to max out shield recharge with lowest shields possible so that I can try and trigger it more often, almost want to try an umbral build just for that reason.

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Just... wait till the Warframe drops for us. It's 100% certain they will tweak him in the following weeks.

 

PS: Those radical changes will never happen. Too much work

Yeah i know i commented on that but its out there as my idea. I think it be great. Highly doubt it will ever be changed. But hey anything can happen and you never know unless you put it out there!

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5 hours ago, SSI_Seraph said:

Really disappointed overall tbh:

Passive:

- The range is ridiculously low from what I've seen.

Enthrall:

- Why limit the ability to 4 thralls only? As if bumping nyx's mindcontrol from 1 to 4 would make it any better. 4 is not enough to draw enough aggro and just forget the idea of them helping you deal damage because enemy damage on enemies is bad ( void spines (unairu) is a great exemple of why you guys should forget that type of damage mechanic)

- The pillars base range is too low and the damage they deal is meh at best, could use some effect to make up for all their flaws.

Mesmer skin:

- This thing gets destroyed by dots. As soon as parasitic eximi are near you you basicly don't have a two.

- With how many enemies are thrown at us this ability ends up a lot weaker than what you'd think.

- Just give him status immunity when he has this on (even fits with the eidolon proprities) or a grace period between the charges comsumption.

- The cast time is too slow for how important this ability is for him and knowing that it's not recastable.

- BUG: melees ignore your charges completly sometimes.

Reave:

- The delay on this is gonna drive me crazy. They all reposition before you even fired the ability.

- The energy cost is a bit too high for it to be worth using as mouvement tbh and there are better ways to heal more efficiently (makes it hard justify that cost).

Dance macabre:

- The energy consumption is just crazy when holding the LMB.

- This ability is a pain to use when there is any sort of verticality to the map.

- the reflect portion could use a multiplier because enemies EHP scaling >>> their damage scaling.

- please remove  or drasticly lower that counter decay. The fact that he'll will run out of energy/mesmer charges will force him out anyway and makes me question why it's even there.

Overall, he started as this CC afflicting minionmancer  warframe and ended up being kinda messy and not great (or even good) at anything. I hope he'll get some much needed buffs and changes.

i second that and want to add that the idea of destroying ones own thralls is kinda a bad idea, even IF you could use this tactically in a few situations... sadly, those nearly never apply to warframe, and since we usually kill everything around us fast this will only get the thrall killed before they ever been of any use to us - therefore, the energy will wasted most of the times. i can also see no real way of team mates sparing them just because the little "indicators" around them - they are likely to end up as colleteral damage.

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Revenant is cool, and his abilities are good on the surface, Can we get more thralls, or have thrall count scale with power strength, and they die way to fast to be of too much use. 2 is kinda bad, can we get status immunity, and a short invulnerability phase when casting, or have the cast time reduced, 3 has a horrid cast time, isn't directional while, and the cost is far too high for something that you may often miss, 4 cast time is kinda bad, but okay with Natural talent, wish it had a different animation.  

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I think Revenant is in a perfect spot other then his one, just up the max minions to 20+ and he will fully work, if you don't he will be just another MR Frame sadly, and I really love him so far.

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Since i could't wait for the quest i brought him with plat.

So far i think hes just another MF.

1. Enthrall: thrall cap is too low, dont feel like a real CC and feel useless in big maps as POE. Should have at least 15+ thrall cap scaling with strength.(This is a low tier nekros skill)

2. mesmer Skin: slow cast, high cost, cant survive a toxic cloud or a Dot.. This skill should be a duration buff and no a Charges base. (This is a low tier Mesa skill)

3. Reave: You cant control the direction of this thing, making you fall on every hole, trap or crashing with walls, if you have a long duration build Reave make you kiss any obstacle for the whole duration. maybe slow move and control option would be good.

4. Danse Macabre: How to start? Good damage and i always ended using this more than anything else. I feel like there is no synergy with any other skill. I know this give overshield if i kill thrall. But then we return to 1 with low cap of thrall and the fact this is a channeling skill i ended killing enemies with out the enthrall debuff. Maybe make this a castable skill with some duration, Also this skill hate obstacles so if you will let this in a channeling status maybe give us some way to maneuver (jump, dash, roll, i dont know)

In the end of the night i feel like this frame keep preventing me to have fun with so many restrictions. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 need a buff. Increase Cap, remove duration and Add range for the cast something like Harrow (1) and strength to scale damage of the thrall.  

2 need a buff. Less cast time, Duration-strength.

3 need a rework / Improve. Some mobility option and less jump of the cliff ability. Strength-Range  

4 need rework / improve. i rather prefer something less brainless and more interaction skill, like a cast ability. Strength-range

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Based on my own playtime, and based on what pretty much everyone else who has replied said, his thrall limit needs to be increased because a hard cap of four with no health or damage buffs is entirely worthless as an ability, to the point where it might as well not even be an ability as aside from some synergy with his other abilities it's pretty worthless, which you don't even have enough time to use your abilities on them as they die nearly instantly if you have teammates. I like his other three abilities, but the thralls in their current state aren't even worth using at all which is disappointing as I absolutely love controlling enemies. Perhaps increase the cap and maybe give them some sort of buff or allow us to control them a bit more (make them murder eachother, sleep, etc?) Right now it feels like Nyx's chaos but with a cap of 4, limited to one enemy per cast, and a nice little floating shard effect.

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So.. Revenant is interesting? I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea to give Revenant a constant AOE nuke after the whole resonating quake/world on fire debacle but that's besides the point. Enthrall's spreading is defeated by the cap of 4 which just plain doesn't make sense. In a way with a cap that low the spreading actually works against you, enemies will shoot enemies that don't provide buffs where I could be stealing an ancient healer buff or something otherwise if I had full control. It's also susceptible to the whole "your allies will steamroll indiscriminately so trying to setup on vulnerable enemies is pointless" thing. His 2 is alright but I wish it could take a few more hits considering how many hits one can expect to receive in a short period of time. Otherwise, I like the idea of the ability. Reave feels like a tidal surge reskin without the cc. A way to heal is nice, but it's also not enough. It has a lot of the same problems any of the charge forward abilities do - you can't stop it, you can't turn it, and it goes way further than it has any right to. Usually leading you stuck on a wall for a few seconds or barreling over a ledge. His 4 is alright, pretty good actually. Unfortunately I think it's the only part of his kit worth using, but it's fun and flashy.

 

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like Enthrall was originally intended to spread a lot more than it does considering how much of his kit involves getting and using thralls. I can only assume this was changed last minute because it felt too strong, but without changing or removing his dependency on his thralls, leaving a somewhat lackluster frame in it's wake.

Edit 2: So Danse Macabre wants you to take damage to buff it's damage, but rapidly decays, meaning you have to take more damage to keep it scaling, but Revenant is a shield frame and not very good at taking large numbers of hits to maintain that.. I dunno, if Mesmer Skin was better and the decay rate was slower  I could see this working but as of now it's not really worth considering for the risk involved.

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Revanant's abilities and my thoughts after a few forma:

1. Thoroughly underwhelming. Having a cap of 4 enemies removes any feeling of having an army of thralls at your command, and since allies can kill them having any nuke frame in the party will make this ability pointless. IMO going back to the earlier revision of 20 as the cap and having the thralls immune to allied damage would go a long way towards making this fun.

2. It's alright, perhaps add a cooldown between the charges lost, increase the number of charges, or just make it a %damage reduction like what gara, trin, or mesa have

3. The delay when not casting in danse macabre requires the use of natural talent, and the visual effect could use work, perhaps more akin to Wukong's cloud walket. Function wise, the ability regens a pittance of health and shield, and 75 energy for a movement ability is rather steep if that's the primary intended use.

4. It feels fine, but the damage quickly dropping off hurts its effectiveness in later missions. If revenant had a damage resist and the absorbed damage didn't decay the ability would feel much better to use. As it stands, it's all anyone plays him for as his other abilities don't really compare to it well, and it has a strong anti-synergy with enthrall as it kills them too quickly. 

Overall it feels like what we have now is a neutered version of what we were shown in earlier devstreams, and the frame doesn't quite feel as all-mighty as a Hydrolyst or Gauntualyst in its command of the battlefield. Rather, he feels about as powerful and strong as a vomvalyst.

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On 2018-08-17 at 1:37 PM, Pizzarugi said:

So I tuned in for Devstream #115 live, because I'm excited for the Revenant warframe. I'm a huge fan of petmaster/summoner playstyles. The more minions I can have in my arsenal, the happier I'm gonna be! When I learned of Revenant's abilities to enthrall enemies who can then enthrall others into his control (up to a maximum of 20), it immediately got my attention. Sure, he may have to deal with teammates wiping them almost instantly, but that's why he had 20 as a limit and they can enthrall other enemies on hit. I was excited to have another frame that deals with minions.

That was until I saw today's devstream.

It's hard for me to point out exactly where it was mentioned, but it happened sometime in the early attempt at showing off the new Elite Alert system. I distinctly heard "maximum of four" mentioned in regards to Revenant's minions. That concerns me. I admit that having 20 minions may be a bit excessive (8-10 would've been fine), but cutting that down to 1/5 of what it used to be sounds just awful. I also didn't see them enthralling other enemies either, all of them seemed to be coming directly from Revenant's actions instead.

His Enthrall mechanics has great potential to introduce another petmaster/summoner into the game, but if he has such a small cap to his minions and they don't get some damage reduction from other players' attacks, this is going to be a wasted opportunity

Well, I wasn't wrong. Revenant can still only control 4 thralls.

Needless to say, I'm kinda disappointed. When you have teammates that can just about instakill your thralls before you have the chance to with your 4 to make use of the overshields buff, it's nonsensical to limit your maximum to four. Revenant really needs to have 10 at minimum.

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12 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

When you have teammates that can just about instakill your thralls before you have the chance to with your 4 to make use of the overshields buff, it's nonsensical to limit your maximum to four.

I think a good workaround would be to go for a Well of Life sort of effect where it gets fully healed and receives a higher max health. Another additive idea is to give it resistance to all elements except one randomly which will received more damage instead. Danse Macabre would then auto alter itself to target the one damage type it's weakest to. They'd be a bit harder to kill to allow for easier Reave uses and Danse Macabre would be the only thing that could reliably kill it quickly.

If they allowed for more thralls and a way to get them a bit quicker I don't think this idea would be needed.

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Played him on my pc today. I love Revenant and he has potential but he has A LOT of issues.

All his cast times are painfully slow. His cast times should all get buffed.

 

1: Thrall cap is way too low. 20 might be too much but 10 would be fine. AoE, is too weak, either needs a dmg buff or needs something else like maybe a shield regeneration zone.

 

2: Interaction with 1 is extremely clunky amd charges are a pain the butt. Make it so enemies are automatically enthralled or they have a chance to be enthralled on stun, the way it works now makes it too difficult to get a free 1 cast. Make him immune to status effects when his 2 is up as well, PLEASE.

 

3. I was hoping this ability would get replaced, but its pretty meh outside of repositioning with 4. Drastically reducing or removing cast time would be a start and maybe increased life steal as well.

 

4: This ability is good and lots of fun, not sure how it will do in higher level content, so it might need some better scalings.

 

Revenant needs lots of work but he is a fun frame. His kit needs to flow a bit better and just needs deserved buffs.

 

Edit:

other notes: Add a cooldown in between his charges for his 2 and make his thralls immune to ally damage. AoE frames and anyone in general make his 1 absolutely useless.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)SilverWolf198 said:

4: This ability is good and lots of fun, not sure how it will do in higher level content, so it might need some better scalings.

His 4 is easily his best ability and from the testing I've done scales quite well. Pretty much spot on with the other descriptions though.

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So after some extensive testing, thrall DOES NOT do any kind of taunting, so its not much of a survivabiltiy tool at all really, if anthing using max range you enthrall something all they do is just walk by and keep going, the only CC and defense it adds if anything is the fact that they spread via damage but after 4 it caps so its pointless...

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