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[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread


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1 minute ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Thread is back now for some reason /shrug.

Here's that image you wanted.

G4S9rRX.png

with a base energy pool of 188 and an energy drain of 8.33 thats pretty bad for anyone who doesn't use zenurek or arcane energize. I assume the zenurek tree was what allowed you to use his 4th without too many issues in terms of energy.

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Nerf was absolutely heavy-handed and totally unneeded, and the main problem of overshields being pointless because of his Mesmer Skin is still in place.

I am very, VERY disappointed with this nerf.  I was enjoying Revenant, but you actually just made him worse.

Edited by Frostyinferno
typo
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Just now, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

with a base energy pool of 188 and an energy drain of 8.33 thats pretty bad for anyone who doesn't use zenurek or arcane energize. I assume the zenurek tree was what allowed you to use his 4th without too many issues in terms of energy.

That and the fact I keep running into energy orbs like crazy playing as revanant for some reason. Like at one point I saw 10 orbs just strewn around the map. Can't figure it out.

Also As I said, That's my umbral build. Revanant doesn't need the boost in armor or health to that degree, its just my preference so if you want to swap the umbra mods out to counter the drop in energy pool feel free.

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Loving the Revenant for the most part, he's very fun to play. Here are some ideas/suggestions that I think would make (the way I play him at least) smoother and more enjoyable:

1. I don't even use his Thrall ability while I play him, mostly because i prefer more mobile/aoe gameplay and this just slows me down way too much for very little return if any, especially because I just kill them off with Danse Macabre anyway. I think it'd be nice if you could cast this while moving, even in danse, and then re-cast to command all your thralls to a location/target and detonate together.

2. Mesmer skin is great for survivability, but the fact that you have to stand still to cast and can't recast it during danse makes gameplay just slowdown to keep an eye on this and doesn't feel good.

3. I love the range and speed on reave, casts smoothly and fits well with danse, but you can't see a thing while dashing. Please drop the smoke/particles for QoL.

4. This ability is SO fun. I like how you are rewarded for finding a "sweet spot" in a room where you hit the max number of enemies, or you can just fly thru levels deleting stuff on the go. However, it's silly how I so frequently get stuck on little things that can barely pass for steps, and there's no way to go up without ending danse. some minor vertical functionality to scale things like that or even teleporting upward with reave would make it much smoother to maintain momentum and danse.

EDIT - the most recent update with the energy increase to danse I find very strange. Now it just depletes your reserve to the point that you are discourged from reave dashing, which makes it crazy fun, and you are almost forced to slot Flow in, limiting build options. If anything I'd say lower the damage a bit and make the energy cost even less than previously. Even if this skill could be considered fire and forget, the mobility and momentum you have while playing makes this far more engaging than ember ever was/is in my opinion.

Overall, with the amount of particles going on between mesmer skin, danse, and reave, I find it so hard to see where I'm going while playing him. And the directional lock with reave means I run into walls all over the place with this guy. Overall I vote to make his movement easier during danse, allow more directional input while reave dashing, love particle effects significantly, and change thrall and mesmer skin such that you can maintain gameplay momentum AND they are still worth using.

Thanks

Edited by ledfever
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2 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

with a base energy pool of 188 and an energy drain of 8.33 thats pretty bad for anyone who doesn't use zenurek or arcane energize. I assume the zenurek tree was what allowed you to use his 4th without too many issues in terms of energy.

Not just that, I saw his range and 0.12M range when Boosted is a severe Negative when you combine it with the Energy Drain you get from boosting his damage (which would be 16.66 with his build).

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(About his latest nerf): I just got done modding my revenant the other day for his 4, putting on as much duration as possible so it can take up as little energy as possible cause that stuff already went away quick. Along with trying to make him do as much damage as possible...I managed to get it to 7 energy per second and even then it still took up the energy quickly...But now the least it can use a second is 11, almost 12, and it's going away way too quickly...Those few numbers can mean alot in duration...The energy already was going away quickly as it stood, but this throws away most of the work I put into him trying to mod him for his 4.

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Just now, VPrime96 said:

Not just that, I saw his range and 0.12M range when Boosted is a severe Negative when you combine it with the Energy Drain you get from boosting his damage (which would be 16.66 with his build).

Like I said. I don't use Danse to sweep entire room lengths, its much more effective up close anyways, Again, my build has room for improvements, if you find it bad, but I still can carry it through past sortie level easily, why not try to surpass me.

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1 minute ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

That and the fact I keep running into energy orbs like crazy playing as revanant for some reason. Like at one point I saw 10 orbs just strewn around the map. Can't figure it out.

Also As I said, That's my umbral build. Revanant doesn't need the boost in armor or health to that degree, its just my preference so if you want to swap the umbra mods out to counter the drop in energy pool feel free.

glad to hear somewhat of a work around this dumb nerf. But for everybody that doesn't use zenurek or arcane energize the ability is pretty much nearly unusable unless they dedicate their entire mod set up for his 4th channeling cost.

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Abilities that convert enemies to our side are inherently useless, as we've seen before they don't do any meaningful damage to each other. These kind of abilities may be mildly useful in solo play but the vast majority of us play in groups and what we want to do is kill the enemies. The Thralls die almost instantly and the only real way to fix this would be to make them immune to friendly fire and that is annoying in itself.

A better use for the ability would be to make them immune to player damage for say 6 seconds, during this time they enthrall others and all affected enemies take increased damage once the immunity ends, at least that would provide a benefit to the squad.

The energy drain on his 4 seems a bit heavy handed, why not just give it a ramp up like other similar abilities so it costs more the longer you have it active? Give it ten seconds at base cost then increase it incrementally, this would prevent people just pressing 4 and doing nothing else (not that I've seen anyone doing this).

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Enthrall: too long to cast. only affecting a single target makes it feel useless. The pillar has too small a radius and does too little damage. plus the pillar has no CC. enemies aren't drawn to it or anything, it just sits there. This ability needs to be an AOE cast like Equinox's two, or it needs to spreadable like Saryn's Spores or Khora's ensnare. adjust the pillars so they actually do something.

Mesmer: Best ability in his kit when it works. when it bugs out that's incredibly disappointing cuz you die when it's not really your fault. It's primary weakness is that it's not recastable, but that's okay IF you allow charges to be refreshable from his other abilities.

Reave: So you have a great ability in Mesmer which eats damage, giving you immunity. So why would you need health and overshields on this frame? Give Reave the option to refresh stacks of mesmer skjn. 3 enemies passed through for one mesmer charge. Or 1 enthralled enemy. Play with the numbers

Danse: Prior to this patch, this was the only reason to run him. but honestly it was just an inferior version of mesa's 4. if you want to keep up the energy drain, then you need to make it worthwhile. Ideas such as killing enthralled enemies with his 4 causes a large AOE explosion, or it completely refreshes his mesmer skin. Or just turn the energy back down. I disagree that this is a set and forget ability, when you move around and dash constantly to avoid taking damage. and the only way to last a long time in his 4 was with max efficiency. Now it's a mandatory build requirement.

 

Overall his flow of combat would become like this. Cast 2 for defense. Cast 1 to enthrall multiple enemies either through AOE or spreading on death. Cast your 4 to kill everything. meanwhile Cast 3 to quickly move around the battlefield and position yourself in the middle of the enemies, using the mesmer charges you've stored up (and refreshed with your reave) to sustain yourself.

Edited by SVN5ET
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3 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

But how does nerfing an ability with a straight energy nerf make a bad warframe anymore interactive or anymore enjoyable?

So far I haven't played him enough to finalize my opinion on him. I'll say so far that I'm enjoying his gameplay and find him pretty effective, and even with a non-minmaxed loadout I'm not having Energy issues. I use DM as a wipe ability when I have an abundance of thrall around me, in order to create the damaging pillars. While the laser dance of doom is pretty good for damage, the pillars deal 80% of DM's damage in larger areas for longer periods of time, for no energy cost. Therefore, my strategy's been forming around redirecting enemies with Enthrall and focusing on growing these zones of damage while my other abilities enable that. DM is good but expensive, so I only use it when needed. I played him before and after the recent update and the difference in DM's cost, for me, is negligible. I think it's because I don't use it for long periods of time.

Your title and OP claim that the change in Energy costs forcing DM's uptime lower has made Revenant useless. That he has no use outside of pressing 4 and calling it a day, and when the cost is tweaked to make that afk-ish strat harder, he now has nothing. That developers have ruined a frame just because it can't stay in an afk damage spin forever.

You are wrong.

 

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Personally I think Danse Macabre is fine now. Been using it since the update dropped and I can still spin for quite a while as long as I'm moving around to pick up energy from its victims. Still really bummed about how pointless the rest of his kit is because it revolves around flimsy awkward Thralls with few usable benefits.

It is NOT a good idea to use Nekros's abilities as a benchmark for balancing frame powers. Augments are required for ALL of his powers to justify using them. We want frames to perform fine on their own. A frame's design is not solved if it takes half our mod capacity to rectify it. Same goes for Limbo, whose powers require very careful gameplay just to not be a burden on your team the whole time.

Edited by Pfysicyst
unexpected censor
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4 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

So far I haven't played him enough to finalize my opinion on him. I'll say so far that I'm enjoying his gameplay and find him pretty effective, and even with a non-minmaxed loadout I'm not having Energy issues. I use DM as a wipe ability when I have an abundance of thrall around me, in order to create the damaging pillars. While the laser dance of doom is pretty good for damage, the pillars deal 80% of DM's damage in larger areas for longer periods of time, for no energy cost. Therefore, my strategy's been forming around redirecting enemies with Enthrall and focusing on growing these zones of damage while my other abilities enable that. DM is good but expensive, so I only use it when needed. I played him before and after the recent update and the difference in DM's cost, for me, is negligible. I think it's because I don't use it for long periods of time.

Your title and OP claim that the change in Energy costs forcing DM's uptime lower has made Revenant useless. That he has no use outside of pressing 4 and calling it a day, and when the cost is tweaked to make that afk-ish strat harder, he now has nothing. That developers have ruined a frame just because it can't stay in an afk damage spin forever.

You are wrong.

 

or they could of just decreased the range of his 4th so it can give people the incentive to move around instead of sitting still. But that would be my take on a nerf to afk's

edit: at least specifically for this ability

Edited by (XB1)ultamite hero
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Ok I said it in the patch thread, I'll say it again here: DO NOT LET THRALLS BE KILLED BY ALLIES. And second, please, pretty please, turn the energy drain on Dance Macabre down to 12.5 again. Hech I'd say turn it down even to less than that, I made a full eff build for him and the only way to use 4 consistently is in defense missions where every team mate drops energy spheres. Dance Macabre is NOT an efficient ability for many mission types, it requires navigating the map obstacles and using his dash (which increases energy cost by a lot) if you want to keep up with a mobile team. This is NOT world on fire, it is NOT a fire and forget ability, please don't make it already more useless than it is.

Edited by PraetorGix
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5 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

glad to hear somewhat of a work around this dumb nerf. But for everybody that doesn't use zenurek or arcane energize the ability is pretty much nearly unusable unless they dedicate their entire mod set up for his 4th channeling cost.

There is also energy siphon and pizza for those who don't want to spend super heavy investment on arcanes and focus.

i actually ran energy siphon when revanant came out before I was done mastering how his ability costs work. (reave still needs a cut to energy drain though, sure it can steal health, but it doesn't aim well or wind up well.)

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1 minute ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

or they could of just decreased the range of his 4th so it can give people the incentive to move around instead of sitting still. But that would be my take on a nerf to afk's

There's actually something weird about the revanants 4th's range. It often sweeps outside of its established range and i can't be sure why. If it spun faster for better effect in exchange for an indicator of your hard range where it sweeps, i think it would be a fair tradeoff.

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Just now, Omega-Shadowblade said:

There is also energy siphon and pizza for those who don't want to spend super heavy investment on arcanes and focus.

i actually ran energy siphon when revanant came out before I was done mastering how his ability costs work. (reave still needs a cut to energy drain though, sure it can steal health, but it doesn't aim well or wind up well.)

energy siphon and pizzas don't give energy while channeling abilities are active.

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Am I the only one who thinks Rev's 4 isn't that effective?  Even prior to the nerf.  I'd honestly would like a nerf.  

I'd love a rework.  Would highly prefer if it was an AoE impale from himself.  Him draining the opponents life, healing himself or something.  Or if he impales, it buffs his thralls for a period of time?  I love me some synergy.

I picture something like below, but AoE. 

685a75d2a0.png

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Revenant's 4th ability is his only good ability. His 1st, 2nd and 3rd are all terrible or mediocre. There is literally no reason to use all but his 4th ability. His 4th makes revenant feel like a sentient fame and is fun to use. And now It's nerfed to the ground. Literally no reasons left for me to use Revenant, other then that he looks great aesthetically

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

DE if you want to punish afkers so bad then why didn't just take logical approach of lowering the range of his 4th?

Or, instead of nerfing him MORE, just rip off Overwatch and have AFK players get kicked.

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As much as I hate to suggest copying the bandaids put on Hysteria and World on Fire, wouldn't it be better for Dance Macabre to increase in energy cost over time rather than making the ability cost much more?

Alternatively, please at least raise the damage and status rate of Dance Macabre proportional the increased energy cost.

EDIT: I will probably never use Enthrall while it removes enemies from the map. Finding the last enemy on defense can be a chore if they're under Enthrall. Since there's some incentive to kill them, I believe it would be better if they were shown on the map.

Edited by Neightrix
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The new energy cost is not really bad.
It is even rather well chosen.
This 4 has monstrous damage ability, it is normal not to be able to hold it for a long time.
And anyway there are plenty of ways in the game to have a lot of energy.
Make sure you have 175% efficiency, and it will cost 5 / s
There is really nothing to complain about on this point.

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