[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[iuki.]

My feed back so far:

- casting speeds are too slow making the rev's abilities feel super clunky, especially his 4.

- mot nullifiers can one tap me with danse/mesmer shield enabled: it's annoying. mogamu mention this in one his vids.

- his 2 is great, up until mobs start stripping it really fast: either make mesmer shield re-castable and or have way more charges.

- allow the ability to jump while in danse macabre: it would be nice to be able to deal with flying units that are close. plus it's ballarina, you know they jump around and stuff so why not the rev too? :D

Edited August 31, 2018 by iuki.

[bobsfireplace]

Just make it so Mesmer Skin work like shield gating cause we have Reaves to replenish shields. and change Danse Macabre back to same energy consumption as before 

Edited September 1, 2018 by bobsfireplace

[ES3M]

...he just needs more molding. First let's establish what that final shape should be. Everyone's making a fuss about Danse getting nerfed and that it doesn't justify the small buff to his thrall cap. I personally think it's a step in the right direction but is far from the true ending this frame deserves. Considering his overall kit and the changes made so far I think it's safe to assume that Revenant is supposed to be THE squad warframe. By this I mean he is not Nyx - confusing an army into attacking random targets - and he is not Nekros - resurrecting fallen enemies to act as your shield. Revenant, I think, is the frame you choose when you want to have the option of selecting special units to fight along side you or letting chaos reign as your enemies turn on each other one by one. The problem is that he's stuck between his peers and is having difficulty standing out. To truly enforce a thrall-centric playstyle DE needs to do more than gimping his Danse of Doom, they need to make thralls just as appealing as that old set-and-forget-it crap.

Question: Have you ever played "Overlord"? It's old now but it can easily teach the satisfaction had in having a horde and being able to use it. I think a sprinkles of faithful minions would be a good place to start with Revenant. Make thralls smarter. They don't need to beat you at chess, they just need to be able to stick around you and acquire targets more reliably. Thralls should try to path their way near you while still being able to fight effectively. That way you're not in too hot water if you're full on thralls but none are around because there should always be some around. To make things easy I think the code used to make enemies come at you to attack could be used to flip the script. They gather around you like any other enemy might if but their sights are trained on the opposition. Trim the conversion time and improve their aggro and we've got the makings of a real fighting force!

So now our thralls are more responsive and don't wander off too far but now they're all dead. What happened? More often than not your average Exalted Excal or Ignis Ember don't really care who's followers they slash and burn as long as their screen is constantly showing damage numbers. This will not do. You're infatuated enthralled need a bump in durability, sure they last long enough when faced against their old friends but your friends are the ones making pillars where you don't want 'em. If only there was a fairly sturdy, warframe powered suit of armor our devotees could wear... I know! Slap your fanboys (and girls) (and bots) with your patented Mesmer Skin! Just evenly coat it upon the application of Enthrall and you've got economical way of keeping your psychotic clem wannabes scratch free! It negates damage per stack, doesn't last so long as to really drag out a wave if you don't feel like putting 'em down yourself and helps squad-mates figure out what you mean by "don't kill my thralls" if they can't see the glowing rods floating around their heads. *sigh* Those silly, stupid, stupid, stupid, STUPID squad-mates... And hey, since we just pimped out our followers with the stuff, why not make all Mesmer Skin automatically enthrall? It already goes through all the trouble of setting up the pins why not let it knock 'em down too?

Things are getting real infomercial-y arn't they? Don't know if I can stop but here we go with YOU, the sentient beard-daddy with the penchant for pacification who's got a now highly decorated squad of former foes covering your back. Pretty sweet so far, aside from the fact they still deal normal enemy damage. That's fine if they're just a distraction or a sponge for the damage you should be taking but that's not who they are. These are your partners in crime! They deserve better, unless you don't care in which case just don't build Power Strength and stick to Duration. If you want some mob munching minions this is the change for you. It's really simple, thralls that still have Mesmer Skin get boosted damage too. The scaling would have to be enough that a high power set up can clear crowds but not auto-pilot a defense mission for ya. If you don't even grab Intensify they should probably just do enough to make sure they take down whatever is below them on the food chain.

Past all this Revenant's dash could use bump against non-thralls and I think the now nearly obsolete Danse Macabre should get a tweak. Thralls still drop overshields, non-thralls have a chance as well but Mesmer Thralls don't. Because they don't. Get. Hurt. When you're mowing the lawn you don't want to mince up the spouse's garden do you? When you're panicking at the disco that's hardly a choice so take the worry out and let your elites dodge the laser beams.

 

This is my dream for a perfect Revenant. Not a monster but a leader, one that cares for his flock and reaps the rewards of careful curation. I genuinely like where Rev is going and if even a little bit of this suggestion makes it into him I'd be ecstatic. A kind of Make-your-own-elites warframe sounds really cool but he just isn't there yet. Maybe I'm way off and Reave is supposed to be the big ticket ability and we end up with Dashframe. Who knows, it's super late and I'm gonna go collapse. If there's errors abound I'll do the proofreading after I've slept.

Cheers!

[Guest]

latest feedback with the recent play-tested changes:

1 - Enthrall is still mostly useless since it's only redeeming effect is the pillars of damaging light (that are exactly like hallowed reckoning - a very bad augment).  The only situation in which those are worth anything is when you're managing a choke point in a survival mission (just like hallowed reckoning), because there's no other way that the pillars will damage anything given their very short base range.  Even if the pillars do damage anything, they do very little damage and don't last very long at all, meaning they're expensive to upkeep and aren't viable sustained damage (thanks, armor scaling).  Increasing the thrall cap to 7 doesn't actually help for anything other than solo play, since the spreading mechanic takes so long, and all the thralls get killed before you'll ever reach that cap.  So to recap: thralls don't do any bonus damage over other enemies (enemy on enemy damage is awful, given their scaling), thralls don't survive long enough to actually reach thrall cap, and the light pillars don't do half-decent damage, given their short range and life-span.  I suggest making the enthrallment spread effect be tied to damage from the pillars of light.  That way, the player and their allies can kill all the thralls as fast as they want, and the pillars of light will serve to spread the enthrallment.  So, you enthrall a dude, he gets killed immediately, creating a pillar of light.  You've boosted the base range by 1m, and modded your frame for 145% range, so the pillar will hit any enemies within 4.5m with negligible damage and enthrall the damaged enemies.  If those enemies die, it'll create new pillars, thus spreading the potential enthrallment farther and farther out.  You'll be at thrall cap fairly quickly, and will likely stay at cap until your duration ends, while dealing damage all over the place and sowing a bunch of general chaos.  This would also provide great DPS synergy with Danse Macabre, since enemies touching the light pillars will get converted, danse macabre will status proc and hopefully kill them, and Revenant will generate both more pillars and over-shield drops.  This works on bosses, for some reason.

Option 2: make the eidolon shards that encircle the thralls provide mods for the thralls weapon.  It can be a semi-exalted weapon, taking primary mods which would boost whatever weapon the thralls have.  The thralls would need to be invulnerable to everything but the revenant's weapons and danse macabre damage, so that allies don't kill them before they can be of some use.  This would significantly de-emphasize the pillars, but would make the thralls do pretty decent damage once you've given them a bunch of crit and status on their weapons.

2 - Mesmer skin's cloud and smoke effects are really obnoxious.  He's like Pigpen from Peanuts.  For a second I thought a helicopter was trying to land on my head, then I realized I simply had a hygiene problem.  The ethereal tentacles that stick up out of his shoulder are a very cool effect, and do a decent job of indicating that you still have charges left.  They'd be more visible on his right shoulder, the one that's right in front of the player, and not blocked from sight by his head and syandana.  The smoke and the dust clouds on the other hand are extremely distracting.  I say more ghost tentacles, less smoke.  The ability still has problems with various damage types punching through it (including self damage and AOEs in general), and not being able to recast it is a bit of a bear.  I have noticed many high-level enemies can one-shot you straight through mesmer skin, when you have max charges and full health and shields.  This is a problem.  The cast time is extremely long, even with speed drift or natural talent.

3 - Reave's new effects look fantastic.  Good job there.  The ability is still significantly held back by the limitations of enthrall, overall energy economy, and it feels just as clunky as Tidal Surge.  Without a bunch of enthralled enemies to hit, the ability does terrible damage and healing.  Hitting thralls just doesn't happen, as it's impossible to get a large thrall army going with a bunch of allies killing them all.  It doesn't even seem to be effective against special bullet-sponge enemies, such as kuva flood pyrus carriers (totally immune).  Although, it is somewhat effective against battalysts and conculysts, even if it does take about 6 hits to kills them (their health gates are affecting it, it seems).  It doesn't make much sense that the 1-3 combo doesn't work at all on bosses or high-value targets, considering it's otherwise useless vs trash mobs.  It would be nice to have an energy cost discount when Danse Macabre is active and the energy drain of danse macabre should pause while reave is active, since danse macabre isn't dealing any damage during the reave.  The only advantage of casting reave during danse macabre is that you can avoid the stupid wind-up casting animation for both abilities, effectively letting you move faster from room to room than stopping the cast, bullet jumping, and restarting it again.  It doesn't even recharge your Mesmer Skin (which would again be a really nice synergy that would allow you to stay in Danse longer while absorbing more damage from enemies).  In terms of the clunkiness, it would be really nice if it functioned more like a very high-speed Cloud Walker, with the limitation that you can't jump off the ground, and that it's a set duration.  This would allow you to circle around and hit the same target multiple times, if you wanted to.  The casting delay at the start of the ability is really unnecessary, and makes aiming it much harder.  The cast goes whichever direction your frame is facing when you start the animation rather than towards where you're aiming at the end of the casting delay (or even where you're aiming at the start, for that matter).  That means you end up going off in random directions rather than at your often-moving target.  The only time it goes where you want it to is when it's cast during Danse Macabre.

4 - Danse Macabre is still the same as it was before.  It does middling damage, has a very silly animation, and it's extremely limited by line-of-sight, intentionally clunky casting animations, and slow movement speed, making you rely on Reave in order actually hit everything.  Meanwhile, Reave is too expensive to use while Dansing.  If you DO use reave, it's really clunky to aim and control - just like Tidal Surge.  The energy cost is now absurd, yet it doesn't change the fact that it's the only ability he has worth building around.  (Why the heck can you mod the radius of the laser beams?!)  The damage absorb and reflect mechanic built into Danse Macabre is a non-factor for the damage the ability is able to do thanks to how enemy damage and EHP scaling are significantly disproportionate to each other and you can't recaste your mesmer skin for protection during danse macabre anyways.  Trying to take damage to fuel your damage will just get you killed.  The status chance seems to be the most significant factor, and that's not moddable and doesn't affect a whole litany of enemies, including sentient fighters (someone you'd expect the ability to be especially effective against, given that it's supposed to change damage types based on enemy defenses).  To be perfectly honest, Mirage's Prism looks more like an eidolon ability than Danse Macabre does.  If Revenant's Danse Macabre was a ball of light that he put up over his head, and it just followed him around while he could run and gun, it would be significantly better given the extreme limitations on Reave and Enthrall.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Guest

[the_ladybug]

Revenant before the increase in energy cost of Danse Macabre was okay. Now... well...

From what I understand of his abilities, he is intended to Enthrall enemies to redirect aggro. He kills his thralls to create traps, or kills them with Danse Macabre specifically to gain overshields. This is okay. The problem is, the thralls tend to attack Revenant, have crossfire on their CC, and get murderized by squadmates before they are of any use or he can cast Danse Macabre. At high levels, if you cast Enthrall, then a split second later, said thrall is dead by the mobs they were next to especially with the way that targeting Enthrall is janky since you might hit a trash mob instead of the Corrupted Ancient or X Eximus you wanted to hit which wastes energy. Maybe the thralls should have a short windows of invulnerability (except, maybe, to Revenant's Danse Macabre) upon becoming Enthralled while the ability is active in order to make this ability useful and allow the thralls the spread instead of being cut short as they are coming out of the Enthrall stun. They are, after all, vulnerable to any source of damage.

He uses Mesmer Skin to stop enemies that are attacking him and open them up to a costless Enthrall. This ability is very slow and locks Revenant into place unless cast midair. It is not recastable, and nor will self damage remove the last few charges, which means that Revenant must be hit by enemies until all charges are gone if there is no convenient location to jump into the void to remove Mesmer Skin. This makes his survivability very questionable on higher levels due to the inability to manage Mesmer Skin in any effective manner. Mesmer Skin is supposed (?) to help when Revenant wades into a horde in order to sweep them up with Danse Macabre. The problem is that the aforementioned issues means that Revenant has to 1) get hit until Mesmer Skin is entirely gone, 2) retreat, 3) find cover, and 4) recast Mesmer Skin if he doesn't go down during step 1. (I suppose that this remains true to the "Eidolon Warframe theme" considering the way that Eidolon fights go, but Revenant is not an Eidolon, he is a warframe controlled by a Tenno.)

Reave is a costly ability that is supposed to regenerate health and shields and is vastly faster, more mobile and controllable when cast while channeling Danse Macabre. On it's own, it is slow, clunky, and again, costly. Misaiming and getting caught on geometry can be fatal at higher levels when each use of the ability has a slow cast and costs 75 energy. Currently, I cast Danse Macabre, waste 25 energy, and then use Reave before immediately stopping Danse Macabre rather than cast this ability on its own due to the difference in its behavior. This total base cost of this maneuver is 120 energy: 25 energy for casting Danse Macabre, 75 energy to cast Reave, and 20 energy for the duration of Reave, plus whatever extra energy is wasted due to human reaction time. Revenant's base energy pool at level 30 is 188.

Danse Macabre. What to say... Danse Macabre is the ability that ties Revenant's kit together. It is what makes Enthall okay. It makes Reave a usable ability. It also makes Revenant's kit very power hungry and leaves him extremely vulnerable when he has to stop dealing out damage in order to run away, especially when stopping the ability in order to retreat due to the stop animation. If Revenant's Mesmer Skin is down and he does not have enough energy to cast Reave in order to expedite his retreat or re-position himself, Revenant is dead. It doesn't matter how much health and shields Reave might gain him. Maybe upon the ability being cancelled, Revenant could gain a Reave-like movement without the associated energy cost or benefit from shield/health draining in order to re-position himself in order to run away and if you're not paying attention and just run out of energy he just stops like he does currently. So: Revenant casts Danse Macabre, he twirls around, his Mesmer Skin runs out and he doesn't have enough energy to use Reave, so he cancels the ability and gets to re-position himself. Turn it into a question of: Do I keep attacking or do I need to move?

TL;DR: He needs something to balance out the energy drain of Danse Macabre if it is left as is. Since he seems to be working out more as a hit-and-run warframe, adding channel-cancel mobility to Danse Macabre would make him able to run in, cast to start attacking, and flee when necessary to recast Mesmer Skin and pick up a few thralls. It would also encourage toggling the ability. Attack, move, [Mesmer Skin, Enthrall, Enthrall, Enthrall,] attack, move, [Mesmer Skin, Enthrall,] attack, move. (Of course, that wouldn't be a viable strategy in Elite Sanctuary Onslaught, but Revenant wasn't really an ESO viable frame anyway, even before the energy cost of his only real damage dealing ability was increased.)

[Orfeusz]

As a warframe Revenant seems to be an incomplete design (I will explain later), kinda.. however he has a great potential to become really satisfying character to play, as we all know the key to that is locked in some changes - by keeping "the good things" and by reshaping things which are rather falling behind (I'm talking about his kit here). Without further delay, let's take a look at Revenant abilities.

Passive: Does not suit Revenant (too similiar to Nova). Could be 5 - 10 % of dmg dealt by his abilities is true dmg as well (ignores armor and shields, straight dmg to health).

Enthrall: In short - a very interesting ability with some major problems. Enthralled enemies are great at aggroing other enemies and by that, protecting you and your allies / teammates from enemy fire... unfortunately they have a sad tendency to die pretty quickly (because of teammates or crazy endgame weapons dmg) and as you guess, my dear reader, it's stop them from doing their "work". My solution to that is very simple - change enthralled enemies to allies or give them some sort of protection like small dmg reduction, after holding Enthrall for 2 seconds or after Enthrall's duration runs out enemies (or rather allies in my concept) affected by Enthrall will be released from its effect and damaging pillar of energy will spawn under every enemy which was enthralled, set a limit of active pillars to 21 (recasting Enthrall will just relocate old pillars and refresh their duration), lastly - let's maximum number of "thralls" stack with duration (capped at 300% duration - 21 thralls) but the more active thralls you have the shorter is duration of Enthrall, it's for balance purposes. It is also worth to mention that Enthrall often spreads between enemies too slowly, so it should be fixed. 

Mesmer Skin: This ability is a perfect example of absolute disaster in a skill creation (sorry DE), Mesmer skin provides some defense and CC, but what is wrong with this ? What is so disastrous in this ability ? Charges.. you have only 6 charges and one charge is depleted per damage reflection, of course number of charges is affected by ability strength and naturally enemy which damaged you is putted to sleep. Sadly, in Warframe, you are often just swarmed by hordes of mobs and 6 charges won't help you in such situation, not to mention that using Mesmer skin feels ununsatisfying. Mesmer skin should be without a doubt redisgned. Personally, I would change Mesmer Skin to a variation of Rhino's Iron Skin / Nyx's Absorb - for 3 seconds (affected by duration mods) become enveloped in Sentient energy, which absorbs dmg from enemy fire and hits, then shell of protecting energy is created (iron skin) which health is based of dmg absorbed in scale 1:1 (incrased by strength mods) and  a small pulse is emitted, enemies hited by the pulse will be put to sleep, when shell breaks, another pulse is emitted. In missions with low level enemies mesmer skin won't be a big deal because it won't have base health like Iron Skin and shell created in such "environment" will be weak (unless you are planning to run with lots of strength mods). Mesmer skin will come in handy in encounter with stronger enemies. That's it.

Reave: I have not too much to say about this one specific ability. Reave is a fair, decent skill - a single dash, created to synergize with Danse Macabre. It helps us to move around when Danse Macabre is active and as a small bouns - we can restore some health and shields with it by passing through enemies. Maybe changing Reave to toggled ability could make it a bit more interesting, in such case it won't be a single dash. Instead of this Reave will just provide additional movement speed while active and increase rotation speed of Danse Macabre (if active). It would be more like Wukong's Cloud Walker, except you won't be able to fly around and you will be still targetable by enemies during Reave. 

Danse Macabre: Finally, Revenant final ability. I think Danse Macabre is fun enough, it's pretty effective too and, in my opinion, it doesn't require  any other changes than only balance changes. In one of the latest hotfixes Danse Macabre's energy drain per second was greatly increased (both for boosted and not boosted "cast"), from my point of view, to the point of absurd. I nearly forgot to mention that Danse Macabre is affected by almost "everything" (duration, range, strength, etc. mods), so it is impossible to make quality build heavily focused on Danse Macabre. How to fix it ? Set beam radius to 0.2m and to 0.4m for boosted cast, let it be unaffected by range mods, decrease energy drain per second to 10/s (18/s for boosted), decrease dmg to 750/s (1750/s for boosted). You may not like that last part saying about dmg nerf but it is necessary for balance. 

Stats expressed by numbers are assumed for Rank 30. Thank you for reading, feel free to rate, comment and share. I hope that DE will pay attention to this topic and maybe they will get inspired by some ideas. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Orfeusz

[PuNkShoO]

Enthrall - Allow more enemies to be enthralled at a time. 10-12 would be great and allow for more spread of the pillars. Make usable while in Danse Macabre. 

Mesmer Skin - Increase charges substantially or add a damage count value to each charge increase with Power Strength. This ability is nearly useless because its almost instantly exhausted on higher tier content. Enthralling at no cost to stunned enemies is not a perk. Change it. Give it some sort of inherent value like enemy health drain over time during the stun.

Reave - I like this ability. It helps with movement while channeling Danse Macabre. Fix the cast time and animation so that its quicker and a better visual.

Danse Macabre - The ability cost increase was unjustified. A banshee with max efficiency has a 3/Sec drain and can kill through walls and be build for incredible range. As has been mentioned, there are several massive AoE frames that completely ignore wall mechanics and when using Danse Macabre in groups with frames like Saryn, Equinox, Ember, Banshee, etc. you're not very competitive and since the other abilities aren't tuned well enough. Also, what does radius even do? I've tested several different builds and higher beam radius doesn't seem to actually affect the ability to any major degree. I should add that I also like the idea of focusing the ability into a single beam like the Convectus primary. Would be great when you need to single target Eximus units and bosses.

[xBZYKUx]

I would like to see revenant's minions were unkillable by other players. You cant get overshield when your allies (teammates) killing them so fast.

[moodster]

Toggle sprint - ON

cast 4 laser light show

turn off laser light show

Toggle Sprint - turns itself off. 

Please fix.

* After using Danse Macabre I have to toggle sprint back on again, every time.

* On a side note - Please separate toggle sprint for walking and toggle sprint for Archwing... I want to toggle sprint for walking, but I do not want archwing boost on toggle...

Edited August 31, 2018 by moodster

[Fallen_Echo]

Its a step made with wrong assuptions. The reason why everybody was using danse is because all of his other skills are worthless.

Even after the energy nerf none of his other skills worth using any more.

 

Thralls are stupid and get wiped out in the second you cast it, its nothing more than a soft-stun at this stage.

Mesmer skin gets eaten away faster than old wof run throught an earth exterminate, it might aswell ahve the description "saves your life once".

Reave is useless without thralls and even with them, it costs too much to use.

Danse has a buttload of problems and now with the even higher energy cost its a worthless cast but it still be the most used revenant skill.

 

Thralls need a grace time period where they are immortal and also need a +200% speed and damage buff to balance out the problems with the AI.

Mesmer skin once again needs grace times or just flat out triple the charge amount.

Reave needs to be drastically cheaper or have to be turned into a toggle ability where you turn into void energy and pass throught enemies to drain them.

Danse needs to be turned from a flat skill to an area skill like equinox maim and it will be "ok" atleast.

[NinjaZeku]

Do the same for Peacemaker please, that also turns off Sprint needlessly (unless you're using the Augment).

[V0LK]

2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Thralls need a grace time period where they are immortal and also need a +200% speed and damage buff to balance out the problems with the AI.

So much this!

Skills like this make me confident that DE don't play their game or don't know how it works. In theory it sounds so cool - having 7 thralls that fight for you. But in reality they run around, seek cover, shoot in short bursts and follow you ignoring incoming fire. Also AI to AI damage is pathetic.

DE need to sit down and rework AI under player control to make it more aggressive and be worth using.

[ShadowSekai]

After testing Revenant in 3 different Survival missions with lvl 100+ enemies post patch 23.6. , i've got to admit his changes from 23.6 just feel bad. So i tried 3 different builds, with max strength, max efficiency and mix of the two, and in all of them things became far worse in higher levels than before. The thralls don't give you nearly enough benefit later on to be considered useful, are they a somehwat funny gimmick? yes. but outside of that they are really underwhelming, especially with higher lvl enemies.
His 4 now feels terrible if you don't have a trinity in your squad, which really shouldn't be the goal! If you want to actually deal dmg to enemies above lvl 100 you're pretty much required to get a lot of ability strength, but this will leave you with a unmanagable energy cost. At the same time you will need to use your 3 alot as well to be able to survive, which you CAN'T rly do bcs guess what without efficency it costs 75 energy per use, that combined with your 4 will give you like 5 seconds before you don't have any energy left.
One could argue that his "2" would be giving him survivablilty but to be honest it leaves you with too little charges for it's energycost, especially since any shotguns or type of quick shooting (for example Heavy Gunners) will shred it in an instant. 
In a nutshell: nerving his "4" while buffing his "1" wasn't really a good idea. give us some improvements on either the "2", the "3" or give us some reduced dmg taken in his "4". otherwise you created another frame most don't even want to play on sortie levels of enemies

[Raisopod]

23 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Its a step made with wrong assuptions. The reason why everybody was using danse is because all of his other skills are worthless.

Even after the energy nerf none of his other skills worth using any more.

I think this just about sums it up. With the exception of Mesmer Skin, which is only useful as a defensive buff, Danse Macabre is the main reason why you'd want to play Revenant. His 1 and 3 are borderline useless, as long as allies can kill thralls faster than you can cast it, all you're doing is wasting energy while casting it. Remove the stun from his 3 and add it to Enthrall. Enthrall should no longer cause enemies to fight for you, but should now be a Pacify-like sleep effect. Enemies affected by this will perform the same benefits with some added numbers as the current Enthrall does, except remove the overshields gimmick and just let them become HP pickups for Revenant and his party in the form of a green spectral version of the enemy you killed, similar to the final phase of the Eidolon fights where they force the Vomvalysts to heal them.

I think it'd be cool if his 3 was a true teleport, similar to how Eidolons teleport by phasing in and out of the ground, and give it invulnerability when you enter and exit the ability's cast time. Remove the shield and HP regen gimmick that it had with Enthrall since it'd no longer be needed with the HP pickups from Enthrall, and decrease the energy cost by a small margin.

[Orfeusz]

As a warframe Revenant seems to be an incomplete design (I will explain later), kinda.. however he has a great potential to become really satisfying character to play, as we all know the key to that is locked in some changes - by keeping "the good things" and by reshaping things which are rather falling behind (I'm talking about his kit here). Without further delay, let's take a look at Revenant abilities.

Passive: Does not suit Revenant (too similiar to Nova). Could be 5 - 10 % of dmg dealt by his abilities is true dmg as well (ignores armor and shields, straight dmg to health).

Enthrall: In short - a very interesting ability with some major problems. Enthralled enemies are great at aggroing other enemies and by that, protecting you and your allies / teammates from enemy fire... unfortunately they have a sad tendency to die pretty quickly (because of teammates or crazy endgame weapons dmg) and as you guess, my dear reader, it's stop them from doing their "work". My solution to that is very simple - change enthralled enemies to allies or give them some sort of protection like small dmg reduction, after holding Enthrall for 2 seconds or after Enthrall's duration runs out enemies (or rather allies in my concept) affected by Enthrall will be released from its effect and damaging pillar of energy will spawn under every enemy which was enthralled, set a limit of active pillars to 21 (recasting Enthrall will just relocate old pillars and refresh their duration), lastly - let's maximum number of "thralls" stack with duration (capped at 300% duration - 21 thralls) but the more active thralls you have the shorter is duration of Enthrall, it's for balance purposes. It is also worth to mention that Enthrall often spreads between enemies too slowly, so it should be fixed. 

Mesmer Skin: This ability is a perfect example of absolute disaster in a skill creation (sorry DE), Mesmer skin provides some defense and CC, but what is wrong with this ? What is so disastrous in this ability ? Charges.. you have only 6 charges and one charge is depleted per damage reflection, of course number of charges is affected by ability strength and naturally enemy which damaged you is putted to sleep. Sadly, in Warframe, you are often just swarmed by hordes of mobs and 6 charges won't help you in such situation, not to mention that using Mesmer skin feels ununsatisfying. Mesmer skin should be without a doubt redisgned. Personally, I would change Mesmer Skin to a variation of Rhino's Iron Skin / Nyx's Absorb - for 3 seconds (affected by duration mods) become enveloped in Sentient energy, which absorbs dmg from enemy fire and hits, then shell of protecting energy is created (iron skin) which health is based of dmg absorbed in scale 1:1 (incrased by strength mods) and  a small pulse is emitted, enemies hited by the pulse will be put to sleep, when shell breaks, another pulse is emitted. In missions with low level enemies mesmer skin won't be a big deal because it won't have base health like Iron Skin and shell created in such "environment" will be weak (unless you are planning to run with lots of strength mods). Mesmer skin will come in handy in encounter with stronger enemies. That's it.

Reave: I have not too much to say about this one specific ability. Reave is a fair, decent skill - a single dash, created to synergize with Danse Macabre. It helps us to move around when Danse Macabre is active and as a small bouns - we can restore some health and shields with it by passing through enemies. Maybe changing Reave to toggled ability could make it a bit more interesting, in such case it won't be a single dash. Instead of this Reave will just provide additional movement speed while active and increase rotation speed of Danse Macabre (if active). It would be more like Wukong's Cloud Walker, except you won't be able to fly around and you will be still targetable by enemies during Reave. 

Danse Macabre: Finally, Revenant final ability. I think Danse Macabre is fun enough, it's pretty effective too and, in my opinion, it doesn't require  any other changes than only balance changes. In one of the latest hotfixes Danse Macabre's energy drain per second was greatly increased (both for boosted and not boosted "cast"), from my point of view, to the point of absurd. I nearly forgot to mention that Danse Macabre is affected by almost "everything" (duration, range, strength, etc. mods), so it is impossible to make quality build heavily focused on Danse Macabre. How to fix it ? Set beam radius to 0.2m and to 0.4m for boosted cast, let it be unaffected by range mods, decrease energy drain per second to 10/s (18/s for boosted), decrease dmg to 750/s (1750/s for boosted). You may not like that last part saying about dmg nerf but it is necessary for balance. 

Stats expressed by numbers are assumed for Rank 30. Thank you for reading or wasting my and your time :V

[X_Bo]

for the passive i feel as though he should have gotten some form of anti crowd control  like only affected by debuff's for reduced duration or affected by status for x% less damage. only real downside to his current one is the range on it but then again regaining and losing your shields due to being able to drain enemy shields could be a little crazy with the right amount of range.

i personally enjoy enthrall and mesmer skin, im cool with revenant having a thrall cap because it's not just a chaos "clone" from nyx instead it turns enemies on our side. now thrall's shouldn't take damage from allies and instead possibly have a perma health drain like nekros's shadows but should still be able to be drained/killed by and from reave and still gaining the passive(the pillar of death to me is cool) remove the free casts as well, if you'd want maybe his new enthrall passive could be any incapacitated enemy can be enthrall'd for x% less energy cost instead of free since it would still have your minions enthralling other enemies up to the cap of 7 which in this case way more reasonable.

mesmer skin shouldn't have stack's it should however have a duration, doesn't have to hard cc anyone that hits you but maybe while its on take the passive from thrall's and give it to mesmer skin (pillar of energy would gain x% to spawn on enemy/thrall kill) with probably a lower damage amount.

reave however should become a channel in some way instead of a dash like hydroids wave, way harder to control really not a huge deal either way not every ability can be perfect but the drain stats on it are really nice especially on thrall's.

Danse macabre should not be on this character as it's final ability, a lot of people say it fits and it's great and has many neat affects and all which is fine, it's a good ability. however looking at inaros no one truly enjoys using his sandstorm and for good reason , you can't do anything but spin and use reave (as cool as it may be to teleport like that), hydroids update really turned him into puddle prime allowing him to cast things while being under water allowing for a lot of support while being protected in a way, with revenant you just spin sure you can make the beams do more damage for more energy cost and that's perfectly fine but looking back at another characters "ultimate" was ash you couldn't play when he used his 4 you'd just watch the numbers while getting a nice cutscene. i'm not 100% sure on what to give him besides this if it came down to replacing anything but personally i'd give him some sort of ghost + titan form more like atlas golem while enhancing his other abilities.

                 V ideas for "ghost titan" V

Spoiler

looking back at the mesmer skin ideas in this form maybe gives him the pillar on kill (as stated before) while possibly taking reduced damage and slowing movement toa  degree or reave making it have an aoe as a blast around you or in a chosen area (like hydroids barrage targeting) that drains x(capped amount) of enemies life/shields in x range. for enthrall possibly then making it free on targets who are incapacitated. 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by X_Bo
forgot a word for clarification.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

Always sprint should be a option in settings imo, when do you jump into a mission and think "you know what, I'm going to walk through the entire randomly generated map full of copy pasted rooms instead of just bullet jumping through it", having to toggle sprint on controllers specially is annoying because those things easily break and are expensive to replace

42 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Do the same for Peacemaker please, that also turns off Sprint needlessly (unless you're using the Augment).

Are you referring to Mesa's waltz? I use that but sprint is still getting cancelled whenever I use peacemakers

[telphroned21]

revenants thrall seems fine, however if enemies die too quickly from allies, the range on which thrall takes over other enemies should be doubled, or have a chance of making enemies be thralled upon walking through the energy pillars.

his mesmer skin should have a recharge when in an energy pillar to make it so that his charges (upon being damaged from enemies) doesnt get eaten up quite easily , giving him a somewhat like rhinos iron skin augment.

his reave could have a faster animation speed, and have a chance of gaining energy per enthralled enemy (when in danse macabre, the chance is halved when using reave). the energy on which he gains from this ability is 5 per entrhalled enemy

danse macabre should have the energy dropped to 15 or 10, having it on 20 makes the double damage (holding down the fire button) seems rather worthless using it. also might want an alt fire for radiation damage, this would make it so that it can CC enemies at the cost using the selected damage type that it modifies on its own, which can be held like the double damage fire button.

his passive seems similar to that of novas knockdown passive, imo i think what would be a better passive for him is when standing in an energy pillar, he gains energy and regens health (he cant get energy when in danse macabre, and the hp regen can be scaled by strength in the enthralled ability).

Edited August 31, 2018 by telphroned21
forgot to add in alot more detail on it

[Schnoofles]

While I can appreciate the reasoning behind increasing the energy cost of danse macabre I think you're attacking the problem from the wrong angle. I, for the most part, share your sentiments regarding unengaging gameplay being a problem with some frame abilities and powers (WoF, Memeing strike spin2win, greathammer broken bullS#&$ combo etc), but by upping the energy cost you're only slightly gating the problem of danse macabre being a set-it-and-forget-it. High level players can still stack arcanes, syndicate procs and keep on truckin' whereas the newer players are the ones who are more significantly affected (and harmed) by the change.

I would instead propose a more fundamental change to danse macabre and changing it to a frontal cone instead of a 360 as well as possibly looking at its range. I've mentioned before that Revenant reminds me a lot of Grove Marcus from Vampire Hunter D (see attached image) and actually bringing his 4 more in line with this would both make it more engaging to use as well as more satisfying while preventing it from being used as an afk tool in defense mission

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Schnoofles
text wrapping issue

[cursedmoon13]

Thrall AI should be more aggressive, since enthralling an enemy just to have it spend 60% of its duration hiding behind cover, barely shooting, is boring and doesn't spread the effect OR get them killed to leave behind a damage trap. If an ally kills them there the pillar is against a cover wall, which does sort of "deny" that cover to enemies, but I haven't seen that happening really. Along with this, there seems to be a slight delay after an enemy is enthralled before they start, well, DOING anything, which just increases the chances they'll be killed before the ability shows any real benefit. Maybe shorten or even eliminate the pause?

Also, on more... mobile missions, if you or your teammates aren't killing your thralls immediately, they can get left behind, taking up your cap. I was thinking something along the same lines as @Orfeusz, where you can hold cast to release your current thralls, prematurely creating the damage pillars for your trouble. Probably won't even kill them, but I feel it helps to get something out of it, rather than having to choose between starting over or hoping your thralls do some work wherever they happen to be.

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 9 heures, arm4geddon-117 a dit :

Do something for MESMER SKIN, there are videos from Mogamu and Aweblade already running showing 1 major bug when the HIT u get deals more dmg than total EHP ( aka fatal ) which will completely IGNORE all the stacks, and that ability needs a grace period ala health conversion between 1 charge being consumed and the next ( 3 secs like the armor stacks of health conversion ) and a faster casting time. among several other changes. and you nerfed the energy drain seriously ? which i could go by with, but u didn't even optimize that 4th ability after all the feedback.

his 3 is still totally garbage, a pinnacle of uselessness so far

Ohhh .. that explain why something my 12 hits were getting destroyed by thing outside Kuva Cat ladies.. (the exterminate sortie we did get on Lua 2 days ago)

[OricSharp]

Now that I have Revenant (I traded for plat after the third or fourth Bounty that just gave me Vazarin lenses, and I still think putting any Warframe's parts in bounties is stupid, but this is a different post, about a different part of the Revenant subject), and have two formas into him, I am back to offer my feedback on Revenant himself.

His stats don't mesh well with his passive - his passive being triggered by loss of shields, his strongest defensive stat, is terribly awkward. I've attempted to build in such a way as to allow it to trigger as often as possible, putting absolutely nothing into Shields, and I still have 675. It doesn't trigger often, and when it does, it's not very noticeable, in my opinion and experience.

I feel like his passive should be replaced with something entirely new, but I can't really think of anything to suggest.

Enthrall: I thought this ability was supposed to have up to 20 thralls? I figured it would go 5-10-15-20, but apparently that was not the case. So then I wondered if it was supposed to have an interaction with Mesmer Skin, with Mesmer Thralls being free and allowing for extra thralls. The damage AoE when a thrall dies is neat, I suppose, but honestly, I find myself not really using this ability except to set up for Reave. I was under the impression that this was the keystone of his kit and the foundation of his play. Instead, it feels like a wonky Decoy.

I haven't tried to Enthrall anything since the recent adjustments, though, because I didn't realize they'd increased the max Thrall count to 7, instead of...was it 4? As such, I'm not going to suggest too much here, except maybe allow for an 'extra thrall' interaction with the Mesmer Skin.

Mesmer Skin: This is a pretty strong ability. I find it awkward to use, though, because it's only got six charges unless modded for Strength, which seems...odd, to me, since the charges are how long it lasts. But, I guess it would also be a little much to have everything the ability offers scale off of Duration, especially since so much of Revenant already works very well with Duration.

Reave: At early levels of Reave, I felt it was a bad ability, and not really worth using, since it didn't even feel like it covered as much distance as a roll. Now that I have a better handle on it, I find it's my most-used Revenant ability, since it's actually really useful due to the Shields/HP recovery. Against enemies who aren't Thralls, it feels a little weak, and against enemies who are Thralls, it feels super strong - very little in-between, but I'm okay with that, since it gives incentive toward Enthralling.

Danse Macabre: This ability is stupid good, at least in my experience. The adaptive damage works wonders. I'm not really a fan of the animation, though, because it seems pretty static, and doesn't look like something that Revenant would be able to move during, and I feel that the Thrall shields are lackluster, with 50 OS a pop adding up to a mere 350 for annihilating all 7 of the Thralls. 

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

Are you referring to Mesa's waltz? I use that but sprint is still getting cancelled whenever I use peacemakers

Ah, sorry, I didn't actually test that (Augment) myself, was just repeating something I read recently.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

Always sprint should be a option in settings imo

Yes please.

[Meshugganah]

I'm quite satisfied with the changes.
7 thralls are good enough to work, which makes this ability actually viable
The increased energy cost of Danse Macabre is not really that much of a problem, you just have to mod accordingly.
What I wish for would be the following: please deactivate friendly fire on thralls, so only the one who possesses them can actually kill them since your often braindead teammates ruin your lil horde.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

8 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Ah, sorry, I didn't actually test that (Augment) myself, was just repeating something I read recently..

Which is annoying because these abilities aren't cast and forget like Embers WOF or single use like Saryns Miasma so you're gonna be recasting it a lot during missions so making them cancel sprint makes even less sense