[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[Cyberhazard]

il y a 33 minutes, Fallen_Echo a dit :

You mean at max 1.5 minute? That the max amount when you have primed flow with high duration and efficiency.

Energy drops are RNG and with this high drain you at best get 10 seconds with an 50 energy drop.

Something around these lines,  Still playable and while I'm a bit sad that the cost got increased ( now the most expensive channeled abilty in the game ), I understand where DE is coming from with that.

[kyori]

I’d prefer it to be a ‘more strength, less duration’ or ‘more duration, less strength’ way of usage, rather than an exalted abilities without any shortcoming, because Mesa got reticle shrinking, Excalibur need to constantly press E etc. 

[vonmark12]

Ok, here are my thoughts on Revenant.
 
-He is more of a skill based frame like Harrow, but not as skill heavy to use as Harrow. 

-Always keep an eye out for enemies that are stunned by Mesmer Skin so you can get a free cast.

-Placement of the energy pillars is also a great way to make choke points as the energy pillars do decent damage.

-Make sure to always keep you overshields at max.

-Use Dance Macabre wisely as the energy is too high. And use it mostly for overshields.

-When you have the max amount of Thralls kill atleast 4 so you can make new ones and kill the older ones.

-Use Reave for emergencies only as it costs too much energy 

Suggestions for his abilities:
Revenant 
-increase his armor to 250 or 300 as his current Mesmer Skin will not be enough to make him last at higher levels. 

Passive
-please bring back the lifesteal. He is a "Vampire" warframe afterall. 

Enthrall 
- it's better now, but they still die really fast against allies. I suggest they take 70% less damage from allies, but take 100% damage from Revenant. That way they have more use in a squad. 

Mesmer Skin
- the ability itself needs some rework as it doesn't do well on high level content. I would suggest that this ability be duration based with a limited amount of charges, so that the player do not always stun enemies. Also have it at more or less 13 seconds at base with status negation and 90% damage reduction. 

Reave
- the cost for this ability is too high to recover a small amount of health and shields from non Thalled enemies. Reduce the energy cost to atleast 45 and increase the percentage of health and shields taken from non Thalled enemies. 

Dance Macabre
-this ability is just fine, but decrease the energy cost to atleast 16. 

[Synpai]

On 2018-08-25 at 10:44 AM, Synpai said:

Enthrall:

Enthrall is mind control, there's no other way to look at it. You'd be better off smacking it on Nyx, giving her DR per target controlled and making the targets harder to kill by allies like high level synthesis targets (at the very least....do this)

I'm flabbergasted that the Phatasma's secondary fire...wasn't Revenant's first ability, it fits the bill to a tee. Refund energy on enemies stunned by mesmer skin add in synnergy with other abilities and you could make the disco ball throw bullets too.

PPS: If you're going to give a warframe a trap ability....make sure they have a away to suck in/congregate enemies, otherwise you have an ability that....doesn't really DO anything. You could make it so that Revenant/his allies get a buff when standing in/picking up traps too.

 

Mesmer Skin:

Good ability, charges are inconsistent. I have a feeling if the charges functioned correctly you'd be dead more times than you could count.
For a pseudo tank (relying on the ability) and creating other targets it's hard to reliably take incoming damage to power up Dance Macabre in a team environment

 

Reave:

He's a pseudo-tank....he has no damage reduction so shields make him butter, he has very little actual armor so his effective HP isn't high enough to benefit from lifesteal. Better off going unused to avoid walls, cliffs, and such. Costs too much energy to use effectively with his main ability: Dance Dance Revolution (I'll see myself out).

No Energy wail or stomp....he turns into a cloud....for reasons unknown to me in my small scope of sentient research.

He could have stomped or pulsed out in a wave, and then dragged enemies back to him

 

Dance Dance Macabre:

It's the best thing he has. Range and angles makes this ability a bit awkward making damage inconsistent and the one ability you CAN use during this....there's no point to.

16 hours ago, Synpai said:

My issue with the energy cost increase, is that the error is in the design of the ability.

The reason players are using it and then afk-ing is because that's how it functions. There was a time when Mesa was like this and they eventually changed the mechanics behind Peacemaker.

They didn't just slap on a 65% energy drain increase.

 

There are ways to encourage active play; this was not it. Very poor choice to try to bandaid a leak.

I don't think the frame is "useless" or "dead" but I don't think the changes so far will solve the issues at hand.

 

[Madway7]

4 hours ago, xBZYKUx said:

I would like to see revenant's minions were unkillable by other players. You cant get overshield when your allies (teammates) killing them so fast.

 

Make shields good and then we can talk.

Same to you @Dumpins

Edited August 31, 2018 by Madway7

[AbyssMoth]

It seems we all have the same thoughts. Minion HAVE to be unkillable by teammates. I think it would be okay if even Rev could not kill them with anything despite 4.

 

Personally I have some additional ideas that make Revenant really pitiful.

Firstly, bad idea of frame. Eidolon-VladTheVampire-PapaSmoorth-REVENGE-DiscoBall. Sorry, but look at him! We see just a warframe with strong will for revenge as Valkyrie for example. It is his main theme. But than you say his first and third abilities refers to Eidolons, his third sucks shields and HP, his second is I don't know what, his ult was created for a performance with Octavia and his main look is really... Awkward. Can anyone tell me what DE gave us? Do we still play warframe? My friend (he is new to the game) yesterday asked me do devs plan to give us Santa Claus skin for Rev on Christmas? I doubt to say no...

Secondary, skills that do nothing. I do not want to say they are useless but surely are so optional that you may not even use them and feel no difference. 1 is cool and fun. We all waited Rev for his horde of minions. Personally I thought he would be like Warframe of Revenge that makes enemies fight with each other while killing them without being noticed. And you gave it to me! Not from the start but now even 7 minions are good! However, please, tell me, why you want me to kill my army? Another players kills them, my 4 kills them, my 3 kills them better than other enemies! What the?.. I do not need pillars after there death. I do not want overshields after killing them with my 4. I do not want to have lots of health and shields from using 3 through them. I want my army and buff it. But who cares?^^ The main problem here that 1 is not useful unless solo. Second is useless to unless maxing strength. Third is useless as it sucks shields and health so week. Fourth is OP. DE said they do not want us to "stay and win" but even with more energy consumption nothing changes. It is not fun, it is not interesting. We just have to play with 4 as there are no other options.

So I have a suggestions of rework. No, not fix, not buff, only rework. I do understand that devs paid a lot of attention to Revenant and try to fight with problems via balance but it is impossible. Sorry. The problem is not in damage or energy costs, it is much deeper.

Passive. I would have changed it for 3. Rev dashes forward as a mist with no "sucking". Just a dash with little invulnerability through enemies.

Pros. Evading many hard attacks and situations if you pay attention to surroundings. MOA's stomps, bombs, traps and even evading attention of enemies through dashing from one cover to another. Just the same thing as for Limbo, but simple and useful.

Enthrall. I would do it energy consuming. By pressing 1 you do not spend any energy at all but include or exclude enemy in your enthrallment. Each enemy would consume energy per second so only you decide who do you need and how many minions you want.

Pros. No more stupid enthrallment when one thrall do nothing for a few second and then runs to another enemy, hits and misses, hits again and misses, then another teammate connects to your game and kills everything in sight because he is Sarin. Your thralls becomes allies for all Tenno so they cannot be damage by them.

Mesmer Skin. Why stun? Once you have been hit you become partially a mist and ignore this hit and any damage in 1-3 seconds.

Pros. So, you have charges of skin but they would not be destroyed in a few seconds as there are lots of enemies. Yeah, you are still able to max strength to have really many of this charges. But if invul is only for 1 second it is okay to have 20. At least we want to play in the end game so it is really useful.

Reave. We moved it to passive, so here is a vacant place for a new skill. Personally I would make buff for thralls. For example when you push 3 all thralls becomes much more effective. Damage, speed and accuracy increase but energy consumption does it too. So you have to decide if you need lots of allies or a few powerful.

Pros. Fun and interactive gameplay.

Cons. No shield and health recovery.

Danse Macabre. Who wants spin to win? Why not add some interesting gameplay if you can? Now you emit one big and powerful laser however it does not damages enemies. You have to aim your thralls so that they divide one beam into 9. As thralls always runs somewhere you need skill to maximize the potential of your 4. Also you may damage enemies only around your thralls. Maybe it would be okay to add heal via this skill.

Pros. Not spin to win. Have to think before using. Damage too.

Cons. With all this skills you really need energy so maybe adding somewhere energy recovery.

 

I do not wanted to say that "I can do better than devs", just curious if it is so hard to imagine a gameplay that would not be boring? Now we are given thralls that are useless in party and okay in solo, 6 stacks of skin, straight dash that sucks shields (shields! I can regenerate them!) and "spin to win" button. Why DE did that? What they were thinking?

[mathuedoi]

6 hours ago, Mexusorian said:

ALSO

It was that way but it had to be nerfed because press2win

That's too little for such a powerful ability.

It's only as powerful as the level you are playing.

I mean, Limbo's banish is OP DPS at level 15...

At more challenging levels, revenant's 4 is fair to middling DPS relative to other frames. Press 4 to win only works on low level content for the most part.

The 4 was nerfed because of a problem that exists only at low levels, if then. In the past 12 hours I have heard over a hundred better ideas for tweaking the ability that are better than this ham handed, across the board nerf.

Edited August 31, 2018 by mathuedoi

[XSXShadowKnightXSX]

It may be to much work but had this idea for change for thrall that I think would be really nice and would make his abilities have much more synergy https://imgur.com/a/bYY17m0 

It makes the ability more eidolon/ vomvalysty and doesn't make it seem just as a multi-cast nyx mind control.

Hope other people like my idea as well and not just something I think is cool.

[hs0003]

Revenant is in my opinion a very interesting frame that just need that little 'extra' to hit home. 

Lets start with Enthrall.
In my opinion it's amazing right up till the point where the duration ends and all enemies just turns back to normal.
To fix that I suggest the ability makes use of the Devour mechanic of Inaros, but instead of dragging and draining the target, you instead drag it towards you and then pour sentient energy into the Enthralled enemy, reinforcing the link and extending the timer in exchange for an energy loss per added second (so it's less efficient than waiting and casting Enthrall again) Edit: You stand still during the process.

Next is the Mesmer Skin.
It's a great defensive ability that can give you breathing room when you're overrun by enemies or you're about to be oneshotted by a strong enemy.
Sadly it can't be recast before you're out of charges, which can leave you vulnerable after a fight that didn't use up all the charges.
To fix that I suggest we be allowed to again channel energy into our Mesmer Skin, using the Scarab Swarm charge mechanic for a substantial energy loss per charge (so it's less efficient than waiting and recasting) Edit: You stand still during the process.

Lastly is Danse Macabre.
This one is more simple, just allow the player to tilt the laser arm using the mouse, so we don't waste 70% of the damage by firing it into the ground.

Those were my 2 cents.
Thoughts? 

Edited August 31, 2018 by hs0003
Clarification

[Bulletjunkie]

The energy drain on Reave is too expensive if it's meant to be used for movement during his Danse Macabre.

Duration mods make Reave move you reeeeallly far away, but you NEED duration mods to buff Danse so it doesn't drain energy like crazy. Maybe change Reave range to scale with +range mods instead since Revenant doesn't really need much +range but he does need Duration.

Maybe allow players to "steer" during Reave if the range is going to remain so long.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Cyberhazard said:

Something around these lines,  Still playable and while I'm a bit sad that the cost got increased ( now the most expensive channeled abilty in the game ), I understand where DE is coming from with that.

I dont because there are skills capatable of the same for less costs around.

Even for channelled abilities exalted blade or the peacemakers offer much more for much less energy and due to how this skill is designed it was unuseable for "afk gaming" since the begining.

Previously you could stay for 3 minutes in this skill but in that duration literally anything can kill you if you dont move around.

This skill has the following negatives: requies los to hurt anything, doesnt offer any cc or self defense, slower movement speed, countered by both infested and corpus, the high energy cost makes the high efficiency mandatory.

The only thing it has going for it is the okayish damage but i wouldnt try to use this skill or the frame in sorties since the enemy just shreds you up while you spin.

[Cyberhazard]

Never had any issue in sortie with Revenant, his 4 isn't the only skill in his kit.

And the faction that pose more threat than the others are the Grineers, Corpus are squishy, and infested melt because they come close and throw themselves in the lasers.

For me, Revenant is one of these frames that  doesn't  ask you to go full str,  a balanced build, more Duration and eff over str while denying completely the range is a good way to go.

I'm happy with the frame, and don't have any trouble with his high level content, and 40 mins + survival.

 

Here is my build if you want to take a look.
 

Révélation

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Cyberhazard

[LadyYuria]

So...
He feels a bit underwhelming (quite a lot actually). Time for Ideas!

Passive: -Is fine I guess just feels a bit out of place with his higher base shields and overshields.
               -Maybe make it so that it procs when he takes a said amount of damage?

Enthrall: - I think he should have like 5 or 6 thralls on the base ability with strength scaling. (the current fixed amount of 7 are fine too to be honest)
              - Instead of the pillars, he should have the homing lasers/explosive orbs the eidolons have to go more with the eidolon theme

Mesmer Skin: - It should enthrall the enemies affected by it automatically for convenience sake. Of it shouldn't if the maximum amount of thralls is reached

Reave: - There shouldn't be a silhouette of Revenant while casting it, would make it look better.
             - Make him leave behind a damaging AOE styled after the the effect the eidolons leave behind to again helps his eidolon theme (also makes it a little better of an ability) 

Danse Macabre (Love the name.): - To make it feel less not fitting synergy wise:
                                                        - Either remove of scale down the damage against thralls.
                                                        - (to go with the first change) Make it give smaller amounts overshields on thralls hit in an area around Revenant instead of death.
                                                           


                                                                   Hope you make some changes to make him feel better and more like an eidolon!

Edited August 31, 2018 by LadyYuria

[Synpai]

31 minutes ago, XSXShadowKnightXSX said:

It may be to much work but had this idea for change for thrall that I think would be really nice and would make his abilities have much more synergy https://imgur.com/a/bYY17m0 

It makes the ability more eidolon/ vomvalysty and doesn't make it seem just as a multi-cast nyx mind control.

Hope other people like my idea as well and not just something I think is cool.

That could be a better medium instead of just making them neigh unkillable. I don't think it'll ever be more than upgraded mind control though. Rev's 1 belongs to Nyx IMO. He could do without it.
 

Enthrall->Phatasma Blast:

I'm still hoping they scrap this ability and give it to Nyx.

Phantasma's alt fire is the epitome of what this ability could be

 

Reave:

I think it would be more interesting to have him spawn sentient "ghosts"/specters 

A Conculyst that sucks and damages enemies.

A Battalyst that does what dance macabre is supposed to convey

 

Both versions could mark enemies and restore health and shields (Allowing overshields) when Revenant damages them with an ability.

Dance Macabre->Eidolon Cannon:

This is wild but...Just let players just shoot the lasers? They'd have to aim (no afk) and then there's the potential to let him use other abilities during.

1st Synergy: You could have the interaction with Phatasma Blast to make it empowered. 

3rd Synergy: You could make the sentient ghost/specters shoot off homing missiles or refract (In the direction facing when cast?)/reflect cannon shots

Edited August 31, 2018 by Synpai

[Darkmoone1]

His 1 buff is exactly what he needed, but it needs a bit more changes. Here is what I'm proposing:

 Change the single target cast of Enthrall to an aoe that affects enemies close by. 

This is what I feel should be done: 

1) Change the generic "Arm reaches out" animation that a lot of other first abilities have and turn it into a fist pump motion. 

2) Have energy cost determined by how many enemies you enthrall. I.E Enthralling one enemy is 5 energy, 2 is 10 energy, and so on. 

3) Have the Revenant effect be a way a circular pulse wave when he does the fist pump motion. 

This fixes several things with Revanant overall:

1) He'll have a reliable and efficient way to affect multiple targets with enthrall. 

2) It allows for more active and engaging gameplay, as Revenant will have to get close to turn enemies. He no longer just pokes one enemy in a mundane fashion. 

3) With an increased Cap and these new changes, allied players will be hard pressed to kill enthralled enemies if a cap of 7 are affected, unless they use room clearing abilities. 

I'm quite happy with everything else concerning Revenant. However THIS is what I'm looking for the next time Revenant is changed. He needs a reliable and consistent way to turn enemies that is enjoyable to play. 

[Sharkgoblin]

43 minutes ago, hs0003 said:

lets start with Enthrall.
In my opinion it's amazing right up till the point where the duration ends and all enemies just turns back to normal.
To fix that I suggest the ability makes use of the Devour mechanic of Inaros, but instead of dragging and draining the target, you instead drag it towards you and then pour sentient energy into the Enthralled enemy, reinforcing the link and extending the timer in exchange for an energy loss per added second (so it's less efficient than waiting and casting Enthrall again) Edit: You stand still during the process.

what about this:

enthrall:

-deals some damage and finisher true damage to low health targets

-killing a target with it, will enthrall the enemy for a unlimited amount of time, the enemy will now be counted as ally (such as specters and deployable ancients) maximum of 5 enthralled enemies, 

-enthralled enemies can be killed normally by enemies but not allies 

-enthralled enemies will now follow you in the same way, the captured target in rescue missions does

-enthralled enemies health scales with strength and get some armor pen maybe a 30% armor pen

-enthralled enemies weapons gains the damage based on your primary weapon damage mods

-enthralled enemies react to revenant gameplay, aka if you go afk, your enthralled guys are gonna afk as well

also shields are S#&$, give the guy some health in exchange of shields

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by COATTOQUALUNQUE

[Felix_the_Mage]

The nerf on his 4 was completely unnecesarry.

[VieuxPappy]

Il y a 2 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit :

if people didnt try to use it as if its the only thing he has, they wouldnt need to increase its cost in the first place. the cost increase is fine. people should try using their other tools they have at their disposal.

Did it maybe crossed your shallow mind that the reason people use mostly only his 4 is because his 1 and 3 are completely useless in a squad? It's a fact that people tend to use the best tools at their disposition (just look at the amount of Nyx and Atlas running around and for the extremely rare times you do see one, look if he/she actually uses ALL of their kits... I'll make it easy for you: no. Half their abilities are useless.) and not bother with garbage abilities. If a frame has underpowered or simply useless abilities, people will just not bother to use them. That's exactly why nobody bothers enthralling or reaving around cuz those abilities are simply hot burning garbage. 

 

So before you can have the audacity to ask people to play a frame in a certain way, how about making said way of playing it VIABLE, hmm!? The only somewhat viable way to play him in endgame was to use his 2 then his 4. Now with the recent changes, it still didn't change anything: enthralling enemies is still as useless while his 4 is still his only somewhat reliable ability (beside on infested cuz gas is useless the moment ancients start spawning) but it nows drains Rev faster. WOOT! So much for changes huh!

Edited August 31, 2018 by VieuxPappy

[GABRIEL0296]

what really gets me is why you holding him back.. last time i checked this is a pve game where you supposed to feel powerfull.. i miss frames like nidus where all 4 abilities synergies with each other... revenant was a one hit wonder.. now you even nerfed that.. only way he is somewhat fun is  with zenurik dash..

only hope i have for rev is maybe some game changing augment in future or i fear he will join wukong and nezha in the garbage can! 

[EinheriarJudith]

19 minutes ago, VieuxPappy said:

Did it maybe crossed your shallow mind that the reason people use mostly only his 4 is because his 1 and 3 are completely useless in a squad? It's a fact that people tend to use the best tools at their disposition (just look at the amount of Nyx and Atlas running around and for the extremely rare times you do see one, look if he/she actually uses ALL of their kits... I'll make it easy for you: no. Half their abilities are useless.) and not bother with garbage abilities. If a frame has underpowered or simply useless abilities, people will just not bother to use them. That's exactly why nobody bothers enthralling or reaving around cuz those abilities are simply hot burning garbage. 

 

So before you can have the audacity to ask people to play a frame in a certain way, how about making said way of playing it VIABLE, hmm!? The only somewhat viable way to play him in endgame was to use his 2 then his 4. Now with the recent changes, it still didn't change anything: enthralling enemies is still as useless while his 4 is still his only somewhat reliable ability (beside on infested cuz gas is useless the moment ancients start spawning) but it nows drains Rev faster. WOOT! So much for changes huh!

i have a shallow mind because im able to use all the powers and weapons i have equip? you must be blind. ive seen posts in this very thread with people talking about having their mod build set up around DM. apparently you also dont know what the meaning of useless is so let me help you with that.

Useless: not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome.

1. has no issue making thrawls

2. still blocks damage

3. absolutely does restore health/shields

4. damage did not go down cost went up enough that you cannot turn it on and leave it on.

while his 3 other powers can use some tweaks they are far from useless.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[EinheriarJudith]

you know what i do when i see a high threat target like: heyekka master, nox, bombard, napalm, heavygunner, bursa, healer ancient? i use enthrall on them.

[GPrime96]

7 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you know what i do when i see a high threat target like: heyekka master, nox, bombard, napalm, heavygunner, bursa, healer ancient? i use enthrall on them.

Why Enthrall them when you can just kill them with your Weapons?

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, VPrime96 said:

Why Enthrall them when you can just kill them with your Weapons?

because it allows me to focus on other enemies or objectives and protects the team from them their effects which can be used against the enemies and buff the team.

[VieuxPappy]

il y a 27 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

i have a shallow mind because im able to use all the powers and weapons i have equip? you must be blind. ive seen posts in this very thread with people talking about having the mod build set up around DM. apparently you also dont know what the meaning of useless is so let me help you with that.

Useless: not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome.

1. has no issue making thrawls

2. still blocks damage

3. absolutely does restore health/shields

4. damage did not go down cost went up enough that you cannot turn it on and leave it on.

while his 3 other powers can use some tweaks they are far from useless.

 

You missed the "using best tools available" and "not bother with underpowered" parts.
Also, making thralls and reaving is useless as it takes time and 99% of the time, unless you play solo, your thralls get insta-killed before they can be of any use and so using Reave on non-thralled enemies gives a puny 8% leech that can't be boosted, that is completely useless. Also, Reave only gives shield if you use it on corpus units so half of it's role/job is out the window for the 2 factions out of 3 therefore, it's effectiveness for a huge 75 energy is TERRIBLE aka underpowered. Finally, you are left with exactly what I said is the only somewhat "viable/reliable" way of playing Rev and it's to use his 2 for defense then spin with DM and hope you kill stuff faster than they can eat your mesmer skin charges. Also, disruptor ancients will remove the enthralling effect when they hit your thralls. So, again, effectiveness is even worse when there are ancients so infested and orokin missions aka the ability in general is pretty damm useless. Before you say something funny/silly like "use enthrall as a form of CC", well there are already tons of different abilities doing that and way more reliably at that or even in AoE. Also you can simply bring a radiation weapon.

Which brings back to exactly what I said earlier: stop nerfing the only reliable/viable abilities/playstyle of Rev and buff him, like I explained here:

 
Edit: Sadly, for the time being, Rev is indeed a pole dancer. It's a boring playstyle but that's all he can reliably do somewhat well. I would actually agree that his 4 is boring to use, doesn't feel like there's power behind the attacks and is just a worse version of Mesa's 4 and is also more costly. If the devs could change it (like they changed the "ult" of exca), I'd be all for it. In short he needs a whole rework or at the very least, a massive QoL buff over pretty much all of his abilities.  

Edited August 31, 2018 by VieuxPappy

[Fallen_Echo]

43 minutes ago, Cyberhazard said:

Never had any issue in sortie with Revenant, his 4 isn't the only skill in his kit.

And the faction that pose more threat than the others are the Grineers, Corpus are squishy, and infested melt because they come close and throw themselves in the lasers.

For me, Revenant is one of these frames that  doesn't  ask you to go full str,  a balanced build, more Duration and eff over str while denying completely the range is a good way to go.

I'm happy with the frame, and don't have any trouble with his high level content, and 40 mins + survival.

 

Here is my build if you want to take a look.
 

  Hide contents

 

And what are those?

The first what gets eaten away by teammates?

The second what fails to keep me alive even against the infested?

The third what costs too much considering what it does?

Im using a high efficiency, duration all positive build and other than danse i find no useful skill on rev and honestly i dont even find danse good.