[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[Leqesai]

Bottom line is this.

 

Enthrall is boring. Needs reworked to be more sentient or eidolon themed (turning enemies into void ghosts or something)

Mesmer skin completely contradicts his shield passive and overshields functionality. If it stays the same then ditch the overshields stuff altogether. If changed go to adaptive damage resistance like the sentients he is based on.

Reave just sucks. Way too expensive to be used as intended. Should refill energy instead of shields. Cannot effectively use with danse now that it is 20 energy a second.  

Danse cost is simply too high. Overshields from the thralls is pointless and way over complicated to make happen on a team. Thrills literally never live longer than a few seconds of playing with a team. But even if they did the overshields is a pointless bonus considering you are encouraged to always have mesmer skin up.

[dwqrf]

Revenant's kit still suffer from a lot of impossible synergies in most of the public game.

- Being unable to choose the direction while moving in etheral form (Reave), and having the distance scale with ability duration (like Hydroid) is such a pain in a high duration build; which you would be trying to do if you want to play around with Enthrall. If the Reave distance travelled and area of effect would depend on range, that's be much better.

- Thralls seem immune to spell, as my Nidus friend couldn't damage them with 1 or vortex them ; but any other players would still spin-to-death my Thrall, while passing by, making Revenant's Thrall still useless, even if with a higher cap, they tend to spread a little bit more.

- But trying to support your team (or yourself) of overshield is still really impossible in public game, as the Thralls die quick and you can rarely set up a pack of thrall around you before casting your Danse Macabre.

- The mecanic of Mesmer skin (which is about a number of incoming attack blocked, depending on power strenght) is also really weird. I like to play Revenant with Growing Power and Energy Conversion, and the spell is great, as it makes me immune to status and damage for 13 attacks+, and with some duration, it can stun lock a pack ; but it's really inneficient at any level; the charges burst out really quick, and it happens to often to realize too late that you don't have any charges left, and that's often at the wrong moment where you are surrounded. Having a ability reducing incoming damage by a percentage, with a set duration, would feel much much better, and would synergize really well with Overshield.


-

I'd like to see Revenant being easier to set up ; Not seeing all your thrall get killed too quick, and having a better control of Mesmer Skin and Reave.

- Make Mesmer skin give up to 80% damage reduction (depending on Power Strenght) for a set duration. Enemies attacking you within a short radius would be stunned and prone to be Enthralled for a reduced cost.

- Make all Thralls have the %damage reduction of Mesmer Skin while casted. But Mesmer Skin wouldn't reduce the incoming damage of yourself (Danse Macabre). Also, all Thralls explode on death for the whole stack of mitigated damage from Mesmer Skin (taken from all sources).

- Make Entrall having a small Area of effect around targeted enemy, but reduce the casting range.

- Make all Thralls drop Overshield on death (depending on Power Strenght), not deal damage over time on a fixed point.

- Make all Thralls being killed by Danse Macabre drop a pillar of energy. Reduce Dance Macabre damage output, and reduce the new energy cost. Add a better variable of range for Danse Macabre. (the size of the aoe around you...)

- Make Reave give a Health, Shield, and Overshield generation depending of Power Strenght and the number of enemies you hit. Allow to move in any direction while Reaving. Also change the distance travelled  (from power duration to range), and make the size of the effect scale with Range.

Edited August 31, 2018 by dwqrf

[Ikusias]

Finished cooking revenant and brough it out for a spin...

He's mediocre if not downright bad.

So far unlocked up to mesmer skin both on a Umbral mods setup and on a duration/efficency setup and damn if it disappoints.

Enthrall:

utterly mediocre as an horde builder, allied AI is so damn annoyingly stupid it nearly gives aneurisms: you entrhall one of a couple of adiacent grineer for instance, what happens? The imbecile rans towards you under enemy fire doing freaking nothing instead of turning and shooting back for more thralls!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every single instance of enthralling one unit in a group to spread chaos and further thralls is absolutely defeated by the utter imbecillity of allied AIs-

Only use for this ability is for easy kills of small groups of enemies and even then the ability is single target and can't spread to save its life, thralls are simply too f..ing stupid to the point of stopping shooting if enemies move just a bit off the way.

Remedies: much more aggressive allied Ai that prioritizes attacking former allies rather than run to you and die or start attacking you the second the effect ends + Saryn's sphore behaviour without an upper limit, enemies and allies will see to it with aggressive overefficency - as is the ability is mediocre and other players are your worst enemy in using it.

 

Mesmer Skin:

not enough effect to be of help, enemy fire strips all charges in a single burst due to no cooldown in charges consumption, can't be recasted, what else? mediocre and badly implemented.

Not looking forward to testing the rest of its kit sincerely...

Compared to what was shown during development the actual frame is utterly mediocre exactly like khora... don't like this late trend at all.

Strong frames like Saryn being wasted tons of time on only to make them worse and stronger while new frames come out utterly mediocre or are also nerfed on top of that is surely a strange way to do development.

 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Revenant's thralls are complete garbage for the same exact reason Nyx's mindcontrolled enemies are bad. Enemies deal piss for damage relative to their own health. That 50 damage per shot a heavy gunner might deal may hurt against a warframe, but that 50 damage per shot get reduced to 0 by enemy armor. Not only that, people running embers and whatnot will just kill the thralls in matter of seconds.

[Synpai]

16 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

Each frame has different ability sets, some are basic, 1st is ‘weak’ and 4th is ‘strong’, some have equally useful abilities, like nova for example, and some have them all over the place, like nidus and saryn, were their ‘strongest’ ability isn’t necessarily the 4th.....revenant simply belongs to the former, and there’s nothing wrong with that, thus it shouldn’t be changed 

Other frames also have a theme. This ability does not belong to him. From what we've seen from sentients it doesn't match, nor does him turning into smoke and siphoning health and shields when he's invincible.

An ability like Phatasma's alt fire would've been a better fit.

 

I get where you're coming from, but I still feel like even if he had 100 thralls the ability just wouldn't fit with him.

[Madway7]

9 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

 

Mesmer skin completely contradicts his shield passive and overshields functionality. If it stays the same then ditch the overshields stuff altogether. 

 

Danse cost is simply too high. Overshields from the thralls is pointless and way over complicated to make happen on a team. 

Finally more people are getting this.

Tho a nice suggestion I heard was making Mesmer Skin only apply to health damage. This would give even his current passive some use. (Tho I would still prefer reduced damage to shields)

Also shields and overshields by extention are both very eh, usually just bad in most cases. There's a reason Arcane Aegis and Barrier sets are so cheap despite being rare.

14 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

If changed go to adaptive damage resistance like the sentients he is based on.

So far despite iy being mentioned a few times and somewhat cleared up a few times I'm still not sure how this would work.

Namely in how many damage types he could become resistent to, how quick and most importantly how resistant.

(Also for how long)

[VainSigil]

Recentely i came across this bug. At first i thought it was a part of his kit to refresh the up time of your 1st ability Enthrall, i was like dude, this frame has everything, it's really GOOD. Sadly i just realised it was just a bug. Just watch closely the up time of the ability. From max up time when i try to refresh it goes back down after a bit of time. PLEASE DE, MAKE THIS A REAL THING !
 

 

[-QUILL_PETER-]

As most people are saying, Thralls do trash damage, and also have bad AI.

One thing not being requested (I presume, I'm not gunna scroll through 45 pages of posts to confirm) that I would really like to see is a reason to keep number of thralls high (using the word high very loosely here).
Maybe grant Revenant some sort of offensive/defensive boon for having/being near x number of thralls.
Or perhaps having the Thralls buff themselves with higher numbers, like a sort of overzealous mob mentality granting a damage buff the more you have Enthralled. When one dies maybe they could gain a frenzy buff? 

[Helmed]

With regards to the changes to Revenant

 

Enthrall need to not be killed or they remain useless on the battlefield with everyone blasting away constantly

Thats the reason noone uses the skill, not because we can only have 4 or 7. 

 

If you increase the energy to Danse Mecabre, that only makes the pain of using Reaver a lot worse

I already have energy issues keeping Danse Mecabre up, and its a very very rare moment when i can actually use Reaver since it needs so much of my energy. It uses too way too much with little benefit.

 

And as always, Mesmer Skin needs to be recastable or increased to have double the charges. It gets stripped off Revenant way too fast at higher levels

[SteelSoldier]

 Status effects that normally go through shields should not be able to go through Revenant's shields, I think that would be a good passive for him and better than the one we currently have at the moment. 

 

[GPrime96]

6 minutes ago, SteelSoldier said:

 Status effects that normally go through shields should not be able to go through Revenant's shields, I think that would be a good passive for him and better than the one we currently have at the moment. 

 

Sentients normally don’t take bleed out damage so it would make sense.

[XioValency]

Please just change Revenants passive to armour affects shields in addition to health, he is a full shield frame with no consistent sustain unlike Harrow, at least this passive would make Revenants passive unique and helpful and would actually support a build style no other frame in the game could replicate.

 

You give a frame with 1.6k shields and overshield gain a passive that only activates when all 1.6k is broken, this is extra stupid as mesmer skin prevents all damage, his passive literally fights against his very design, abilities and stats, you can't say it's to help when his shields breaks to save him as the range is tiny and 2 things can happen when his shields break, either guardian activates or Revenant gets 1 shot...

Edited August 31, 2018 by BreezeKazero

[LarryOtter]

The question is in the title I don’t need to say more...

thx fore reading

[Zyneris]

Or more charges on his 2 at the very least pliss and thank you. 

[Rembde]

Revenant is strong enough. He dont need a buff at his Armour he need to be just more usefull

[Spartan336]

Revenant

+ more armor =

Idk. I think I like the former more. 

[peterc3]

Asking for specific buffs or nerfs to things will go nowhere with DE.

[SteelSoldier]

^^ That's one of the fundamental flaws of the game, Hit Points are superior because there are quite a few things that can go through shields at the moment and if you are just building shields, you end up shooting yourself in the foot, 2k Shields<any amount of hit points superior to base hp any day of the week

 

[Lorkmir]

This is my suggestion for a rework that could be more effective and also more thematic for something based of the sentients.

 

Passive: something more fitting of sentients would be to make him ignore the shield piercing quality of damage types that normally ignore shields like toxin.

 

Enthrall: instead of mind control, make it create vomvalyst-like shades of enemies that die under its effect. This eliminates its current problem of being ineffective for team play because thralls just die too fast and do poor damage.

 

The new version would have infinite duration on the initial “curse” that lasts until the target(s) die. Upon death, the cursed target leaves a swirling vortex behind like thralls do now, and a ghost version of the creature spawns. They would be invulnerable, but last for a short duration, just to add some extra damage and draw fire.

 

Most importantly, make his curse spread via these ghosts attacking or being attacked by enemies. This would create a dynamic of enemies dying, a short lived decoy appears that spreads the curse, and the cycle repeats.

 

This leaves true mind control in the hands of Nyx. Its short duration, method of spread, and lack of stat buffs for the shades also means it doesn't trample on the toes of Nekros' ult (not that Nekros wouldn't still have a superior overall kit anyway)

 

Mesmer Skin: change it to fit the sentient theme he is based on. It has a set duration, say a base 30 seconds. During this time, on a short internal cooldown of a few seconds, Revenant gains immunity or very high resistance to the first incoming type of damage for 5-10 seconds base.

 

This change prevents him from gaining total immunity to everything and being OP,  as his accumulated resistances gradually change and fall off, while still fitting his theme of an eidolon based warframe.

 

Reave: let him control direction during it, maybe increase duration as well, or just have it be a toggle that makes him ethereal like a vomvalyst during its charge.

 

When he charges through enemies he steals health and regain energy instead of shields. If he goes through the shades created by his #1, he destroys the shade and gains increases health and energy.

 

Danse Macabre: Right now this feels like a more expensive and less effective Mesa ult. Change it completely and make it fitting of an eidolon. I say make it work like the homing attack they launch into the air. He shoots a single bolt out in the direction he is aiming. After a short delay, or after hitting an enemy or surface, it explodes and releases a number of homing bolts that scales with power strength. The bolts deal void damage to things they hit.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Lorkmir

[GPrime96]

18 minutes ago, SteelSoldier said:

^^ That's one of the fundamental flaws of the game, Hit Points are superior because there are quite a few things that can go through shields at the moment and if you are just building shields, you end up shooting yourself in the foot, 2k Shields<any amount of hit points superior to base hp any day of the week

 

The only Factions that can ignore our Shields is Infested and Grineer because of the Lancer's Hind and Infested's Toxin. At lvl 200+, Grineer is much more of a threat because of their Armor Scaling and the amount of Damage the enemies can do to you (Enemies like Seekers, Napalm, and Shield Lancers). Infested have Enemies like Toxic Ancients, Mutalist Ospreys, Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor, and Tar Mutalist Moas. Those are Threats at high level too for Shield Heavy Frames and Weapon Relying Casters. Since Revenant have next to no Armor, Those Factions would kill him Extremely Fast with the Current Mesmer Skin he got now.

Edited August 31, 2018 by VPrime96

[GABRIEL0296]

revenant  2 is trash tier at 40 min + runs... you get into a fight and come out with lets say 1 charge.. now since you cant refresh it if you dive into another mob you will be dead.. yes you can refresh by jumping off the map.. but maps like mot doesnt have many jump off map areas.. even then, frames shouldnt be based on something like that... im not sure why devs are scared to make him a good frame.. his 1 is even more trash tier.. its a gimmick nothing else...🤬

Edited August 31, 2018 by GABRIEL0296

[SteelSoldier]

12 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

The only Factions that can ignore our Shields is Infested and Grineer because of the Lancer's Hind and Infested's Toxin. At lvl 200+, Grineer is much more of a threat because of their Armor Scaling and the amount of Damage the enemies can do to you (Enemies like Seekers, Napalm, and Shield Lancers). Infested have Enemies like Toxic Ancients, Mutalist Ospreys, Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor, and Tar Mutalist Moas. Those are Threats at high level too for Shield Heavy Frames and Weapon Relying Casters. Since Revenant have next to no Armor, Those Factions would kill him Extremely Fast with the Current Mesmer Skin he got now.

 Since Revenant has 105 base armour, then he would have 105/(105+300)=26% Damage Reduction on his shields, I am not absolutely sure if that would be enough to make his shields more relevant but it would definite help a bit, however if they would increase his base armour to at least 150, he would have 150/(150+300)=33,3% Damage Reduction on his shields if his shields were affected by his armour

[SenorClipClop]

Alright, my feedback on Revenant after playing him for a couple days:

Strengths (This stuff is good)

• Revenant excels at Survival and Defense-style mission that have new enemies continually tracking into the same space, due to how Thrall will grow their own numbers and the energy pillars give off a bunch of free damage.
• Survivability is surprisingly good for a Shield-based frame as long as you're exact with how you use your abilities.
• Visual design is nice.
• Danse Macabre has two modes, makes the toggle more engaging than a just-push-4 skill.
• Interesting gameplay aesthetic. The idea of revenge as a means of combat is sweet, and he cycles through different methods of fighting the enemy (tank -> turn -> direct damage -> map control through indirect damage).
• Fun to play, cool themes.

Weaknesses (Things that Revenant doesn't do well, but don't need changing in my opinion)

• Lack of reliable CC and team support -- not the most co-operative of frames.
• Highly dependent on players using the right ability (or having it up) at the right time in higher-level content.
• No way to control where the Thralls go, positioning of pillars is opportunistic.
• Not easy to build for if you don't have a good mod library.
• The special setup of his abilities means he isn't the most suited for playing highly mobile missions like Capture and Exterminate.

Possible Issues (Things that I believe could be changed but don't necessarily need to be)

• I'd like to see Enthrall's energy pillar duration added to the Abilities tab.
• Sometimes enthralled targets will remain stationary unless an enemy is in line-of-sight. I've only really seen this issue when enthralling unalerted targets in dead-end rooms.
• Enthralled targets die quick in low-level missions. This is a bit the same problem Nidus has with gathering stacks in missions where the rest of the squad wipes everything, but in missions of consequential difficulty I'm not finding issue. (IMO, if other players are wiping the map so fast you can't do anything, the mission is so easy that you are just uneeded no matter what your loadout is.) However, people are asking for a way to preserve their thrall at least a little bit, and there are times where I feel that'd be nice.
  • One way of doing this would be to take a bit of inspiration from Mind Control or Parasitic Link, allowing enthralled enemies to store ally damage. To modify this idea, it might be cool to see Rev deal standard damage to enthralled targets, and for ally damage to be stored up and apply itself over time, capping at a percentage of an enemy's max health per second. This still gives Rev just a little time to enjoy his company.
• The mist emanating off of Rev during Mesmer Skin is a little bit too thick, sometimes creating visual clutter or obscuring the player's view. I notice this issue most when I'm sliding while aiming.
• Most levels of modded Strength display a decimal place in the count of Mesmer Skin charges: for example, modding 130% Strength grants 7.8 charges. The ability counts this as having eight charges, but they are labelled 0-7 instead of 1-8. It's a little odd to be seeing the ability display zero charges instead of the one it still has. I'm still testing this ability and I think this last partial charge comes with a percentage chance to stun the attacker, but I could be wrong.
• Reave has its niche yet clear use, but it feels too expensive for the effect it has. This is especially apparent when you want to make a short dash through your thrall to heal, yet this action costs 75 Energy before mods. It'd be nice to the Energy consumption reduced for shorter Reaves.
• Casting Reave for mobility is a little unintuitive. Gravity still affects Rev as normal for his long cast and continues to drag him down as the dash occurs. A little less downward pull on this ability would help in using Reave for aerial mobility, unless it's intended to keep Revenant fairly ground-locked.
• In the interest of obtaining higher levels of Overshield, it'd be cool to see either a slightly higher Thrall cap (9 or 10), or slightly more base Overshields in the pickups from DM-slain Thrall.

All told, there are few points like like to see fixed, mostly with UI and visual effects. Moreover, this frame is a bunch of fun and I'm really enjoying him. Good looking, interesting, effective. Thanks for the new toy, DE!  

Edited August 31, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[ShadowOptics]

Hi all, after being a long time MR25 lurker I've decided to post some feedback about our lovely Revenant! Thank you DE he's a nice addition to the toybox! 

I've experimented with him and builds and this is how I would personally change him whilst keeping to the core DE vision of a Ghostly Eidolon Vampire Laser Fiend: 

Enthrall

Enthrall works well at the moment with the buff to 7 thralls being a good number. However where I feel the ability is getting clunky is where we have the two "linked" effects namely the shield drop and dps "pillar of light". The "pillar of light" disintegrate effect has a similar vibe to Oberon's augmented Hallowed Reckoning. Useful, but only when enemies are in close proximity and not reliable as damage due to teammates killing your thralls when spread out. 

1st change: On Kill, a pillar of eidolon energy erupts as normal. However instead of staying, the pillar would erupt for a split second then set enemies in a radius around the thrall alight with a "Eidolon Energy Burn Effect" I think this would work best as a Damage Over Time effect like a fire proc hitting enemies in a radius around the pillar. Good for skill based kills to maximise the DPS effect. 

2nd change: The disintegrate "pillar of fire" would spawn a ghostly vomvalyst projectile that seeks out any enemy survivors and gives them a good punch of dmg, possibly with a knockdown impact proc. This would be beneficial as other players killing thralls would actively contribute to DPS in the area. Also nice and Eidolon themed and Vomvalyst themed. 

Mesmer Skin

Mesmer skin works excellently at the moment, however it could use a minor tweak visually, maybe the "sleeping" enemies could grow ghostly eidolon energy tendrils out of them and if not enthralled they leave a "shield drop" when killed. Therefore this would create an active/passive element to Mesmer Skin to be tactically deployed when low on health/shields. Also for each charge of Mesmer Skin I think Revenant should become more "ghostly" and transparent to give players a visual cue of when the effect is active. 

Reave

Reave works ok, however I have a few tweaks to make it more interesting other than a buff to tweak the shield/health regen. For the visual effect, maybe it could be tweaked into a swarm of Vomvalysts doing their dash attack 🙂

1. "sleeping enemies" would now give double amounts of shield if dashed through. This would give a tactical use for Mesmer Skin providing much needed shields to a damaged Revenant. 

2. Enthralled enemies give the standard increase in shields/health as normal

3. Enemies suffering the "Eidolon Energy Burn" would give the effect of a radial burst of health regen to warframes in range maybe 3 seconds of healing. Teamwork effect and a skill base "timing" effect. 🙂

4. Maybe an Augment Idea "Mesmerizing Reave": Reave through 4 enthralled enemies and Revenant gains 1 charge back of Mesmer Skin and 25...50 energy (rank up effect). 

Danse Macabre

Two minor changes: 

1st change would be that the eidolon lasers would converge and focus onto single enemies when "channelling" to do more DPS and also auto target the closest ground/aerial opponents. I'd also add the damage over time "Eidolon Energy Burn" effect with a change to proc per pulse of the beam. I think this change would work so that a player would choose to hit heavy enemies harder, whilst leaving the "spin beam" to mop up the squishy mob enemies. 

2nd change "sleeping enemies" and enthralled enemies would drop "shield pickups" to increase the amount of shield pickups. This could also be extended to affect Equinox's enemies under "sleep" and Ivara's "sleep arrow". 

Please give me your feedback on my ideas, I'd be interested to know if you think these changes could work or if you have a better idea to add to mine 🙂

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by ShadowOptics
missed text :P

[AceZxdiac]

 So here are my ideas for Revenant. I wanted to keep them between the idea of Vampire/Undead and Eidolon/Sentient.

 Passive

 After taking 25% of his health as damage, Revenant will "lose" a limb (the limb will still work normally but will go in a Ethereal-like state), and Revenant will either be invincible for a short duration (like Nidus' undying) or  get a great amount of DR (80-90%) for a few seconds. This would have up to 3 "charges".
 

This would fit both the Eidolon theme, since Eidolons lose limbs and go kinda invincible, and the Undead theme, since they usually are hard to take down.

1 Enthrall

 Enthralled enemies would have a fixed % of their health drained per second, and part of that health would be transferred to Revenant (similar to Inaros' Scarab Armor). Enemies would still be able to spread this effect, there would be no cap (or a cap affected by Power Strength), and after a X amount of enemies is affected you would get a "limb"/charge back for your passive.

This fits the Vampire idea, since vampires suck on their victims to restore lifeforce.

2 Path of Folly

 Enthralled enemies succumb to the Revenant's "grace". Slows enemies and has a chance of proc'ing radiation.

 Kinda fits the time stopping vampire thematic.

3 Presence

 Revenant would quickly charge up a "stomp" (similar to that of the Eidolons) that launches a great shockwave in a area around him, opening rifts on the ground, afflicting a area with Sentient/Eidolon energy (like those you find on the Plains at night). Enemies that stand over this area do X% less damage and take X% more damage from all sources. Enemies that die within this area drop overshield pick ups.

 The stomp is a straight up "rip" from the Eidolon's movelist, so i think it fits the theme. Also, it's cool to associate curses to the undead, so might be close to the theme aswell. Plus it got a really edgy name for an ability.