[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 9 heures, Madway7 a dit :

Just realised that if Mesmer Skin only applied to health he might be the only warframe that makes Arcane Aegis worth using. 

Arcane Aegis is amazing on frame that their %DR is working on shield like Gara.. It is like auto regening so much EHP 

[birdobash]

I have an idea for fixing enthrall.

When an enthralled enemy dies, they leave behind a ghost version of themselves that works exactly like an enthralled enemy, except it doesn't take up a thrall slot and is alive for a percentage of the remaining duration. 

This way your enthrall will actually spread even if your teammates kill them all, and it also means your other 3 ability synergies can be actually used without the downside of, "oh I just killed my thralls". So there is actually benefit instead of sacrifice for killing thralls with your abilities.

[birdobash]

I have an idea for fixing enthrall.

When an enthralled enemy dies, they leave behind a ghost version of themselves that works exactly like an enthralled enemy, except it doesn't take up a thrall slot and is alive for a percentage of the remaining duration. 

This way your enthrall will actually spread even if your teammates kill them all, and it also means your other 3 ability synergies can be actually used without the downside of, "oh I just killed my thralls". So there is actually benefit instead of sacrifice for killing thralls with your abilities.

This all stems from the idea of vomvalysts, since vomvalysts leave behind their ghost form if you kill their physical form, this idea sticks with the eidolon theme of revenant and would not be out of place at all.

[Drakontis]

20 minutes ago, birdobash said:

Everything here is a good suggestion, but I think I have a better idea and solution to the enthralled minions.

Instead of making the enthralled minions invincible, make it so when they die, they leave behind a ghost version of themselves that lasts a percentage of the duration of enthrall, this ghost works exactly like an enthralled minion, except it does not take a slot of enthrall and is immune to ally damage (kinda like nekros shadows of the dead).

The idea behind this is that your thralls dying is inevitable due to teammates, but why reject killing an enemy when you can kill it and get your synergy buffs, WITHOUT sacrificing any of the advantages of having a thrall minion by leaving behind a ghost.

It also lines up with the theme of revenant, its basically like the vomvalysts, if you kill their physical form they turn into their ghost form.

This would certainly work, as well as having a similar aesthetic to the ghosts that are made by the Ballistica Prime. Would give you the opportunity to consume them with Reave or Danse Macabre. 

[D1v1ne]

Revenant Rework

Preface:

I know he was just released, but I thought I would put my ideas out there.

My interpretation of Sentients is that they are extremely adaptable to a situation, both offensively and defensively by switching modes.
They also appear to be able to aid one another in a group manner and provide boons to their comrades. In this rework I will try to capitalize on that theme.

Goals: 

- Enhance/Maintain the Sentient aesthetic and stay relatively close to the original interpretation.
- Introduce minimally invasive mechanics from an implementation perspective, that scale into "late game".
- Improve Ability/kit cohesion to feel more fluid and non-contentious with teammates.

Current Issues:

- Revenant's mind control mechanic (1) is low impact, low reward, thralls die easily to friendly fire and maintaining them has little impact on encounters themselves
- Revenant provides little to his team other than dps in the form of his 4 (which is fine, but leaves him feeling like a one trick pony)
- Revenant's 2 ability feels uninteractive. The cc is useful for survivability but doesn't feel aesthetically "sentient"
- Revenant's 3 ability doesnt feel like an appropriate way to sustain himself, does not scale well and doesnt inherently feel "sentient"

Proposed Changes/Reworks:

    Passive: Sentient Mechanic

    For each Sentient under Revenant's control, Revenant's abilites are enhanced as he gathers sentient energy to reform his body (maximum 100).
    Revenant can also change the focus of his sentient energy, protecting himself from damage types, or adapting to his enemies defenses.
    
    Abilites:
    
    - (1) Enthrall: Convert a target into a thrall. Thralls turn on their allies and enthrall other enemies through damage. On death, thralls become vomvalysts
    that continue to attack enemies. (This portion could be converted to a Augment) Nearby vomvalysts heal Revenant over time while he is in Defensive mode.
    Thralls and vomalysts remain under Revenant's spell until this ability runs out.  

    - (2) Mesmer Skin: (35s base duration) While in Defensive mode, for each Sentient under Revenant's control, Revenant gains stacking health, shield, and an adaptive % damage reducion buff. Damage reduction increases based on the type of damage recieved and resets upon the ability ending, Note: this could also be simple Armor for easier implementation.
     While in Offensive mode, Revenant gains a stacking adaptive damage type bonus based on the defence of the target he is attacking.
    (stacks scale with power strength)
    
    Conditions:
    (requires a minimum of 1 Sentient under his control to cast)

    - (3) Coalescence: (Channel ability) Sentient energy infused in thralls and vomalysts coalesce into a Battalyst that gains health, shields, damage and armor based on the number of infused targets (influenced by power strength, releases thralled targets). In Defensive mode, the battalyst will orbit and stay close to Revenant providing
    damage reduction that is redirected to the battalyst (affected by power strength) and passive shield regeneration up to overshield cap to revenant and nearby allies (affected by range). While in Offense mode, the battalyst will seek targets with extreme prejudice.
    
    This ability maintains the Sentient count of those infused into the Battalyst and are lost upon death or release of the battalyst. This is meant to preserve buffs and provide an incentive for maintaining the sentient count.
     
    Conditions:
    (requires a minimum of 3 sentients under his control to cast)
    
    Pressing this ability again infuses new thralls and vomvalysts into the battalyst while holding it again will deconstruct the battalyst.  
    
    - (4) Reconstruction: Hold to swap between Defensive Configuration and Offensive Configuration. (Channel ability) Pressing this ability in Offense mode activates Danse Macabre with the original implementation but damage, and range scale with the number of sentients under Revenant's control.
     In Defense mode, Revenant cries out for the aid of sentients under his control (like a Teralyst) sending out shockwaves that cause magnetic procs on shielded enemies, corrosive to armored, disorient/stun enemies for 5 seconds (effected by range) and give a speed boost, damage reduction, health/shield regen to allies that persist for 20 seconds base (effected by power strength and duration).

    Conditions:
    Activating these abilities requires a minimum of 5 sentients under the control of Revenant and consumes 5 sentients upon use.   

If you got to the end, thanks for reading, I'd like some feedback.   🙂

Edited September 2, 2018 by D1v1ne

[KBossSlayer]

I like the idea and how closely it relates to the eidolon/sentient theme, way better than it does right now. But if I may ask, when you mean "sentients under control," you do mean ACTUAL sentients, or the thralls?

 

[D1v1ne]

Thralls, vomvalysts, and the battalyst are considered sentients under his control. Each thrall would be 1 sentient, same for vomvalysts, the battalyst could be any number of "sentients" as he is the infused version of several of the aforementioned sentients.

[D1v1ne]

(accidental repost)

Edited September 2, 2018 by D1v1ne

[DaWitcheR]

OK, my problem is i have the mask and it's already on my operator face, but when i did Nakak's mini-quest which it suppose to be at night in the Plains of Eidolon i think i did like jus one portion of the quest. You know when you check you map and see there is a pinpoint for you a small white cyrcle that you have to go there and check it out. So for me there is nothing that shows me where to go on the map. idk what's goin on, but iv'e tried like twice and i had to check every lake for nothing. If you would please check on this one i would really appreciate it

thanx,

DaWitcheR.

Edited September 2, 2018 by DaWitcheR

[Ramflare]

My only continuing issue is that the frame has 0 damage capability when an enemy is simply standing up a set of stairs, why? Danse macabre is a very poorly thought out gimmick of an ability, sure it does decent damage but most of the time enemies aren't completely surrounding me so it's a waste of energy and I can't simply aim upwards.

imo it needs a drastic change especially with more open world environments where enemies are spread out over different terrain heights and not tightly grouped - it's generally ineffective.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Droopsie
clarification

[Bl00dRedRage]

Reave is too expensive and slow to cast. 

[Ramflare]

Personally I think danse macabre massively suffers when enemies are at different heights, especially on the hills in the plains where enemies are dotted all over the place which is slightly concerning since we are getting more open world focused, any thoughts on this? It also looks like in the last update it sweeps a wider vertical angle, which just makes it even harder to hit my intended target when i'm not surrounded by enemies at the same height.

[Yaerion]

After testing him in different situation, I find Revenant not team-friendly, and not that attractive compared to other frames (kind of underwhelming). My suggestions to make him shine:

-----1) Enthralled enemies should just clearly take the aggro in a radius (the enemy treat them as a superior threat), and enemies attacking them get contaminated this way.

-----2) Mesmer Skin should be castable on allies if aimed.

-----3) Reave should heal health & regen energy (instead of shield that only Corpus have), because Revenant is a energy hole. It should also allow to dash above the ground (similarly to Excalibur's Dash).

-----4) Danse Macabre limitations & energy cost are not fair. Either we need an efficient way to generate energy (see suggestion above for Reave), or the cost should be reduced a lot. The power itself doesn't justify such drain. It doesn't protect us from damage, has 0 crowd-control, cannot hit enemies above and not in line of sight, and is outdone by many DPS powers of other frames. We should also be able to vaguely direct the rays up and down with our aim. Maintain the button should not increase damage, but rather the rotation speed, and make us fly off vertically, slowly (epic!). This would be waaaay more fun and interesting gameplay-wise than a DPS boost.

That's all for me. Thank you for your consideration. ;)

Edited September 2, 2018 by Yaerion

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

right here is proof that the community can come up with better warframe ability designs compared to the devs. Well with the exception of the all mighty Pablo of course.

[VioletGoblin]

I have fond a way to fix Mesmer Skin. 

Mesmer Skin is suppose to be like Rhino's Iron Skin but it is quite inferior due to two issues.

The first is that it run out two quickly. Because you lose a stack every time you get hit and you only have 6 stacks it doesn't take much to run out. 
And if it doesn't run out you are usually left with 1 or 2 stacks left. 
To fix this, give Revenant the ability to refresh Mesmer Skin, and in stack count by 1 or 2 more.

The Second problem with Mesmer Skin is that if you take more damage than you have health or shields, you just die. This much different than Iron Skin and all for the worst
Unlike Iron Skin, Mesmer Skin has no scaling for high level content. Rhino doesn't have the best scaling ability but it does scale and it starts off with thousands of health points to boot.
Because Mesmer skin doesn't have health point but hit points instead, it uses Revenant's current shields and health as a threshold for some reason. 

I am not an expert on how abilities are calculated but I believe the easies way to fix this would be to make Revenant invincible when he has Mesmer Skin up. This might be considered OP by some if you add it to other suggestion, that to make it refreshable, but I don't see it that way. Mesmer skin can easily loose its stacks quite quickly and if your not careful you will still easily loose all of your stacks. All being invincible really does, it lets you use Mesmer skin on high levels. Add that to the quality of life buff with refresh, and you got a solid defense ability that can scale, but still wont keep you alive if your being stupid.

Summary: Make Mesmer Skin's stacks refreshable, and make Revenant Invincible so that the ability doesn't get bypassed at high damaging enemies.

Edited September 2, 2018 by VioletGoblin
spelling

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Droopsie said:

Personally I think danse macabre massively suffers when enemies are at different heights, especially on the hills in the plains where enemies are dotted all over the place which is slightly concerning since we are getting more open world focused, any thoughts on this? It also looks like in the last update it sweeps a wider vertical angle, which just makes it even harder to hit my intended target when i'm not surrounded by enemies at the same height.

over charge, use energy pizza, use arcane energise, use zenurik dash. he has a 500+ energy pool, it kills bosses like they are paper. all my time spent playing revenant. ive not had any trouble staying alive, with how i always target threatning enemies for enthrall which removes them from combat immediately (also gives team buff depending on what it is). mesmer skin just needs a different way to tell players how many more bullets can get blocked because it blocks more than it actually says.

people keep saying hes useless, or his powers are bad, or this or that. i say his powers need some tweaks but they work as intended for the most part. the only thing i dislike about revenant is his quest was locked behind content id rather claw my eyes out than do. so i bought him with plat and it was a more worthy buy than khora who was struggling pretty hard in the beginning. what i see is DE will over buff, and then over nerf, because people are fickle and dont know what balance is or how it plays a role in solo and in team play.

Edited September 2, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[GABRIEL0296]

lol been readin some feedback from starchart heroes( ppl who never been in mot more then 10min) claiming his 2 is really powerful.. wait what? he gets 1 shotted through his 2 in 40min + runs also it cant be refreshed so you die if you jump into fight without enough charges... pls dont even try to give feedback when you do 10 minute runs in pluto,eris,sedna and think thats what frame effectiveness is based upon.. any frame is good in starcharts... there is a reason nidus is considered a god!

[GPrime96]

7 minutes ago, GABRIEL0296 said:

lol been readin some feedback from starchart heroes( ppl who never been in mot more then 10min) claiming his 2 is really powerful.. wait what? he gets 1 shotted through his 2 in 40min + runs also it cant be refreshed so you die if you jump into fight without enough charges... pls dont even try to give feedback when you do 10 minute runs in pluto,eris,sedna and think thats what frame effectiveness is based upon.. any frame is good in starcharts... there is a reason nidus is considered a god!

After i seen him getting one shotted by specific enemies with max Power Strength, i don’t think there’s such a thing as Enough Charges. His EHP is 998 (I calculated it) with Vitality so it’s easy for the enemies to go through his EHP and make him die in one shot through his Mesmer Skin. Another thing about his Survivability is his Armor. It’s slightly higher than Ember’s but lower than Octavia’s and definitely Rhino’s. So he’s got Glass Cannon Survivability and his Mesmer skin would helped if the way enemies ignore Mesmer Skin don’t be a thing.

[EinheriarJudith]

37 minutes ago, GABRIEL0296 said:

lol been readin some feedback from starchart heroes( ppl who never been in mot more then 10min) claiming his 2 is really powerful.. wait what? he gets 1 shotted through his 2 in 40min + runs also it cant be refreshed so you die if you jump into fight without enough charges... pls dont even try to give feedback when you do 10 minute runs in pluto,eris,sedna and think thats what frame effectiveness is based upon.. any frame is good in starcharts... there is a reason nidus is considered a god!

DE doesnt use mot to balance anything because only mot and nightmare is there a x3 damage modifier. mot is also optional since void has another non x3 damage mod survival node so...

Edited September 2, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Leqesai]

3 hours ago, D1v1ne said:

Revenant Rework

Preface:

I know he was just released, but I thought I would put my ideas out there.

My interpretation of Sentients is that they are extremely adaptable to a situation, both offensively and defensively by switching modes.
They also appear to be able to aid one another in a group manner and provide boons to their comrades. 

Goals: 

- Enhance/Maintain the Sentient aesthetic and stay relatively close to the original interpretation.
- Introduce minimally invasive mechanics from an implementation perspective, that scale into "late game".
- Improve Ability/kit cohesion to feel more fluid and non-contentious with teammates.

Current Issues:

- Revenant's mind control mechanic (1) is low impact, low reward, thralls die easily to friendly fire and maintaining them has little impact on encounters themselves
- Revenant provides little to his team other than dps in the form of his 4 (which is fine, but leaves him feeling like a one trick pony)
- Revenant's 2 ability feels uninteractive. The cc is useful for survivability but doesn't feel aesthetically "sentient"
- Revenant's 3 ability doesnt feel like an appropriate way to sustain himself, does not scale well and doesnt inherently feel "sentient"

Proposed Changes/Reworks:

    Passive: Sentient Mechanic

    For each Sentient under Revenant's control, Revenant's abilites are enhanced as he gathers sentient energy to reform his body (maximum 100).
    Revenant can also change the focus of his sentient energy, protecting himself from damage types, or adapting to his enemies defenses.
    
    Abilites:
    
    - (1) Enthrall: Convert a target into a thrall. Thralls turn on their allies and enthrall other enemies through damage. On death, thralls become vomvalysts
    that continue to attack enemies. (This portion could be converted to a Augment) Nearby vomvalysts heal Revenant over time while he is in Defensive mode.
    Thralls and vomalysts remain under Revenant's spell until this ability runs out.  

    - (2) Mesmer Skin: (35s base duration) While in Defensive mode, for each Sentient under Revenant's control, Revenant gains stacking health, shield, and an adaptive % damage reducion buff. Damage reduction increases based on the type of damage recieved and resets upon the ability ending, Note: this could also be simple Armor for easier implementation.
     While in Offensive mode, Revenant gains a stacking adaptive damage type bonus based on the defence of the target he is attacking.
    (stacks scale with power strength)
    
    Conditions:
    (requires a minimum of 1 Sentient under his control to cast)

    - (3) Coalescence: (Channel ability) Sentient energy infused in thralls and vomalysts coalesce into a Battalyst that gains health, shields, damage and armor based on the number of infused targets (influenced by power strength, releases thralled targets). In Defensive mode, the battalyst will orbit and stay close to Revenant providing
    damage reduction that is redirected to the battalyst (affected by power strength) and passive shield regeneration up to overshield cap to revenant and nearby allies (affected by range). While in Offense mode, the battalyst will seek targets with extreme prejudice.
    
    This ability maintains the Sentient count of those infused into the Battalyst and are lost upon death or release of the battalyst. This is meant to preserve buffs and provide an incentive for maintaining the sentient count.
     
    Conditions:
    (requires a minimum of 3 sentients under his control to cast)
    
    Pressing this ability again infuses new thralls and vomvalysts into the battalyst while holding it again will deconstruct the battalyst.  
    
    - (4) Reconstruction: Hold to swap between Defensive Configuration and Offensive Configuration. (Channel ability) Pressing this ability in Offense mode activates Danse Macabre with the original implemenation but damage, and range scale with the number of sentients under revenant's control.
     In Defense mode, Revenant cries out for the aid of sentients under his control (like a Teralyst) sending out shockwaves that cause magnetic procs on shielded enemies, corrosive to armored, and disorient/stun enemies for 5 seconds (effected by range)  and give a speed boost, damage reduction, health/shield regen to allies that persist for 20 seconds base (effected by power strength and duration).

    Conditions:
    Activating these abilities requires a minimum of 5 sentients under the control of Revenant and consumes 5 sentients upon use.   

If you got to the end, thanks for reading, I'd like some feedback.    🙂

Awesome ideas across the board. Tbh this should be how ravenant was originally designed.

[AdunSaveMe]

If Revenant is ever going to be anything other than a mobile disco ball, Thralls need HUGE buffs. I'm talking scaling damage, damage reduction from players, and more health. They need to be worth using for something other than a temporary distraction. 

You've got three abilities focused around mind controlling enemies, but enemies aren't worth mind controlling.

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, Sybariel said:

but faces issues in higher levels of play due to Enthrall's current impotence, the casting time, and inability to replenish charges.

You forgot one important thing, it doesnt defend you against any kind of enviromental damage.

A thrown grenade, tar on the ground, a missed rocket, flames from the angry cat lady or whatever as soon as its not directly targeting you it will kill you.

[LAWD]

Actually with some testing i did, enthralls that die and leave the pillar in their place, still give you the benefits from using your 3rd on them, which are added health and overshields.

 

 

[Fallen_Echo]

Okay im gonna throw in my rework proposal maybe DE reads atleast one of it here.

Passive: Revenant shares overshields and overheals with his teammates in a 10 meter range, maximum shared overheals and shields are 25%.

Passive 2: Revenant is capatable of gaining +100% overheals what deplate by 0.5 per 1 sec.

Enthrall: Cap stays at 7, when destroyed by players thralled enemies turn into a red fog what grants +100 health when touched by an ally and +200 when touched by Revenant. Grants overheals if used by revenant.

(This to fix the thralls being useless when your teammates or you destroy them because they were at the bad spot in a bad time)

Mesmer Skin: Grants passive 50% damage reduction against enviromental damage, auto enthralls stunned targets if they are no more than 5 meter away from the player.

Reave: Instant cast, instead of draining thralled targets reave now grants them +200% movement speed and infinite punchthrought. Reave leaves back a lingering trail of sentient energy what increases power efficiency by 5% and blocks enemy projectiles and shots for 10 seconds.

Danse Macabre: Changed to flat cost of 150. Revenant channels sentient energy into his arm and launches a chaining beam of pure energy. Damage type depends on the targets, deals 1250 damage per sec but each chain decreases the damage by 10%, theres no cap on the chains as long as each target is max 10 meter away from the previous. Stays active for 20 seconds, while active all damage taken is redirected into the beam.

Shooting enthralled targets causes double damage on them and grants 1/sec overshields and overheals.

[LAWD]

So i noticed something that i would personally love for it to stay, whether it was intended or not;

I played a defense mission on solo, Akkad, and when the enemies were just about done in each wave, I'd enthrall them and the wave would continue onto the next, while still having those enthralled enemies alive.

I really like this touch, it's as if the thralls were been treated as Nekros' shadows, however, until the duration wears off, they won't be yours anymore.