[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

go to lua fight some sentients and you will see them spinning with lazers. its like people have forgotten that lua existed before PoE.

This is true, Sentient Battlelyst spin but they have no lasers while Conculyst lock down their bodies and cause their Sentient core to spin releasing lasers in an imitation of Mirage's Disco Ball. Course, neither of those are Eidolons which are specifically the creature type that Revenant draws from, and in fact are Hunhow Shards. None of the Eidolons show abilities directly similar to Revenant, the Eidolon warframe's abilities in fact. Its important to note that while the Eidolons are still Sentient, alive or undead so to speak, they are not their original Sentient, and in fact that entity is very dead; mind annihilated by that Void Bomb Gara decoyed into the giant Sentient's core. On top of that, neither original Sentient or Eidolons have showed any ability to mind control organics or even Technocyte as Revenant seems focused around.

[Demotros]

I know people are upset about how expensive the 4 is, but for my 2 pennies, I'm ok with it not being a fire and forget ability. That said, I think some level of compromise might be it starting less expensive then growing in cost per second. Overrun and need to clear some enemies? Dance a little jig and clear the room. But also ditch the ability to turn it on and take a nap. 

 

My bigger things right now are the passive and the dash. 

 

If we're moving away from the vampire thing, could the passive move closer to the sentient adaptability thing? Even just a small resistance towards most recent incoming elemental damage types would be fun and useful.  Or do the color thing and get a resistance to an element based on the color of your energy.

 

As the dash interacts with the thralls, any chance we could take it a step further? Maybe when you ghost through an enemy that is stunned from the shield ability could be enthralled to help get and maintain thralls? They get eaten alive pretty quickly, would be nice to have another way to help maintain those numbers.

[HonorGuard2074]

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

This is true, Sentient Battlelyst spin but they have no lasers while Conculyst lock down their bodies and cause their Sentient core to spin releasing lasers in an imitation of Mirage's Disco Ball. Course, neither of those are Eidolons which are specifically the creature type that Revenant draws from, and in fact are Hunhow Shards. None of the Eidolons show abilities directly similar to Revenant, the Eidolon warframe's abilities in fact. Its important to note that while the Eidolons are still Sentient, alive or undead so to speak, they are not their original Sentient, and in fact that entity is very dead; mind annihilated by that Void Bomb Gara decoyed into the giant Sentient's core. On top of that, neither original Sentient or Eidolons have showed any ability to mind control organics or even Technocyte as Revenant seems focused around.

other way around on the names and what they do 

side note Theme for Revenant was Vampire + Sentient 

 

Anyways some changes I hope to see effect rev 

1st ablity be able to either entrall more at once or have more resistance to Non rev players (Preferred if enthralls get the same effect as Nyx's MC target where damage is accumlated from FF rather than done at moment) 

Mesmar skin simply needs a time gate (Like 2-3 seconds,maybe effected by mods)

Reave simply need sped up on the animation (So it's more akin to Hydroid's in terms of beginning to end) 

Dance of death simply needs more damage due to the energy cost increase and maybe something else

[Leqesai]

27 minutes ago, robby2074 said:

other way around on the names and what they do 

side note Theme for Revenant was Vampire + Sentient 

 

Anyways some changes I hope to see effect rev 

1st ablity be able to either entrall more at once or have more resistance to Non rev players (Preferred if enthralls get the same effect as Nyx's MC target where damage is accumlated from FF rather than done at moment) 

Mesmar skin simply needs a time gate (Like 2-3 seconds,maybe effected by mods)

Reave simply need sped up on the animation (So it's more akin to Hydroid's in terms of beginning to end) 

Dance of death simply needs more damage due to the energy cost increase and maybe something else

Lmao time gate of even 2s means minimum of like 20s pure invincibility. Not sure how I feel about that.

 

Maybe 0.5s gate time would be more balanced.

[(XBOX)ToonDude X99]

this might be a dumb idea but what if instead of its passive knocking down enemies on shield depletion it turns revenant into a wisp like figure like the little sentients on the plains and in doing so makes him immune for a short while allowing him to have more survivability?...

[JackFraust]

Revenant's Thralls die way to easily. It takes a few seconds for Entrall to turn an enemy into a Thrall often resulting in the enemy dying before Entrall takes effect. Though this isn't the main problem.

The main problem is that Thralls don't restore health once they become Thralls and allies can't tell the difference enough to not attack them (heck, people still try to attack Nekros' Shadows of the Dead). This causes Thralls to die by ally hands before the Thrall can do anything over 90% of the time (unless you're in a completely separate room). I'm not saying make the Thralls invincible, but having it where only the Revenant that is controlling them can kill them prematurely would be much appreciated. It gets really annoying spamming Entrall just to watch your ally, who's going on a melee killing spree with a polearm, kill the Thrall a half-second later.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ToonDude X99 said:

this might be a dumb idea but what if instead of its passive knocking down enemies on shield depletion it turns revenant into a wisp like figure like the little sentients on the plains and in doing so makes him immune for a short while allowing him to have more survivability?...

Ravenant is already pretty darn tanky because of mesmer skin. 

[trigon360]

14 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

but shields are so horribal

that's why I want to convert shield into the stacks for the skin.

[trigon360]

I agree. the thralls are useless in public. your team will kill everything on sight even your thralls. the only point to use it is in solo or in a coordinated squad.

[Becson]

Enthrall: it needs to go, its way too similar to nyx's 1 and teammates still can kill the thralls, replace it with a geyser that spawns some kind of vomvalyst 

Mesmer: it needs to be changed, it is way too annoying to use and isnt viable at all. Could have a aoe around Revenant that causes magnetic but also boosts teammates shields 

Reave: needs to go faster and have less energy cost plus if dashing through enemies give a boost to damage while keeping the health steal

Danse Macabre: keep it but change it so you can control the lazers with left or right click, causing it to go up and down at no cost (seriously, its terrible when enemies are above you and you have to take a stair case to go to them without canceling 4)  

Edited September 3, 2018 by Becson

[trigon360]

after the nerf tweak to the new warframe, I found the problem lies in the thralls.

the thralls are useless in public because they can be easily killed by teammates. 

the second and third ability can be improved. but the thralls is the real problem.

the skin should be recastable. let it be a QoL change or in an augment. or make it scale with shield instead with power strength. this allow flexibility in builds.

Reave need visual change ASAP. the wall of mist is unimpressive and 'blocky'. Aside from horrible visual and long animation, the ability serves as filler and abit of healing.

(by filler I mean it's just there to complete the set of abilities and not totally useful *cough* *cough* *nyx's physic bolt* *cough*)

I have no problem with the ultimate. it looks good. deal damage. if you want to use it, build for it.

I understand the dev-team is working hard to bring us Fortuna but giving us a half-arse frame, saddens me. the Mask of the Revenant should've been released when it is completely thought through. preferably release along the Odachi and Melee 3.0.

love

tenno

 

[trigon360]

2 hours ago, (XB1)ToonDude X99 said:

this might be a dumb idea but what if instead of its passive knocking down enemies on shield depletion it turns revenant into a wisp like figure like the little sentients on the plains and in doing so makes him immune for a short while allowing him to have more survivability?...

I was thinking make it so that when you are downed your frame is lying there waiting to be revived but you become an invulnerable wisp like the vomvolyst for some time. you can move around and shoot laser at enemies. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by trigon360
forgot to include the last sentance

[VieuxPappy]

Il y a 2 heures, Leqesai a dit :

Lmao time gate of even 2s means minimum of like 20s pure invincibility. Not sure how I feel about that.

 

Maybe 0.5s gate time would be more balanced.

Rhino's 2, Mesa's 3, Zephyr's 3 and Gara's 2 would like a word with you. If we put aside rhino and talk strickly from the other 3's perspective, their defensive buffs all give them essentially invincibility for 20+ sec at base duration. Also, unlike with the frames I listed, nullifiers' weapons ignore Mesmer Skin completely. Also, the ability gives a puny amount of 6 charges to Rev, even at 3sec of timegate per charge, that's only 18 sec of defense. Nothing OP about it.

 

il y a 59 minutes, Leqesai a dit :

Ravenant is already pretty darn tanky because of mesmer skin. 

Until you get attacked by burst/high fire rate weapons from multiples enemies at once which essentially happens ALL the time in a horde shooter game such as WF. 

Edited September 3, 2018 by VieuxPappy

[GABRIEL0296]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Ravenant is already pretty darn tanky because of mesmer skin. 

 srry i started rofl 10 minutes ago and still going... revenant is tanky...lmfao..rofl 

[VieuxPappy]

As I said in a previous post (almost 20 pages ago), on top of making all of his abilities less clunky and quicker to use, to make Rev viable endgame he needs:

• Thralls have to be immune to all teamate's damage. Damage that wasdealt to them is received all at once when the duration expires.
• Thralls' death releases an AoE that both damages but also enthralls survivors of said AoE. AoE damage type/status proc is based on the type of damage that dealt the killing blow to the thrall. This allows a LOT less babysitting in making new thralls. 
• Thralls need a big damage buff similar to Nekros shadows. Enemy on enemy damage is completly useless otherwise.

 

• Mesmer skin needs to be time gated to at LEAST 3 sec if not 5 sec for each charge.
• Mesmer skin needs to be refresh-able.
• Mesmer skin should only protect Rev's hp pool, not his shield.

 

• Reave leech effect should replenish Rev's shield (once his hp are top off) even if used on non-corpus enemies.
• Reave leech on non-thrall needs to be at least 20% to be worth using.
• Reave needs to give back energy based on the amount of enemies affected like Nidus' Virulence. 
• Reave refreshes enthralling duration on affected enemies.

 

• Overshield obtained from Danse Macabre needs to be instantly given to everybody in the team like Volt's 4 with it's augment. No need to walk over the bodies, it's tedious. 
• Danse Macabre should give overshield on all kills, not just thralls, and the amount given scales off of the victim's total hp/shield. 
• Thralls killed by Danse Macabre should give a mesmer skin charge to Rev.

 

• New passive (on top of current one): For X amount of shield lost, Rev gains Y amount of energy back. With this new passive and the fact that Mesmer Skin would now only protects hp, shield loss fuels Rev's energy which fuels his 40 energy/sec consumption with DM which, with kills, fuels his shields back up. Awesome synergy without being OP.

[Urlan]

4 hours ago, robby2074 said:

other way around on the names and what they do 

side note Theme for Revenant was Vampire + Sentient 

 

Anyways some changes I hope to see effect rev 

1st ablity be able to either entrall more at once or have more resistance to Non rev players (Preferred if enthralls get the same effect as Nyx's MC target where damage is accumlated from FF rather than done at moment) 

Mesmar skin simply needs a time gate (Like 2-3 seconds,maybe effected by mods)

Reave simply need sped up on the animation (So it's more akin to Hydroid's in terms of beginning to end) 

Dance of death simply needs more damage due to the energy cost increase and maybe something else

Seems so! I always seem to mix them up since the one means to melee and the other a volley of concussive force but it is what it is. They are parts of Hunhow though, not Eidolons. Theme was always Eidolon, and thus as a side deal since Rebecca likes Vampires, a vampire warframe. That ties back into the concept art that was used for him shown a while back with Amps and the Plains. Eidolons are Sentient in that is what their still living pieces are, but the actual Original Sentient's mind is gone leaving what is for all intents and purposes Undead Sentient with little to no mind of their original self.

Interesting suggestions on the abilities, but what if entralled enemies burst into those pillars when the duration runs out instead of allies killing them? A time gate on Mesmer Skin, could work, but would that just prevent the damage instances during that time or buff the effect by the damage sidestepped? Reave is a bit disappointing in that unlike other dash forward moves, you have no protection and it is a bit slow to move while having low damage output it seems. Danse Macabre could use more damage for that cost I would agree; what if it acted as an exalted or just had higher base? Would that help?

[Mediloric]

Righto, I've had a good play with Revenant on various modes and even a few sorties... Gotta be said I DO LIKE this Warframe a lot, but he suffers the same problem Nekros does with his SotD which limits his uses in other modes aside from Survival and Defense style missions and honestly aside from his 1st and 4th he doesn't do it as well. 

It really boils down to his Enthrall, but I'll get into that later. 

- Passive - 

Let's start with his passive, a knockdown AoE upon shield depletion which on paper looks great! But in practice ehh... I get the idea but the range! oh dear, the range is waaay too short to be useful, even for melee targets... plus with my build I rarely see it trigger. (High shields + Arcane Aegis / Raksa Protect) 

I've seen some good ideas for passive changes but if anything just make the radius bigger! 

- Mesmer Skin -

I actually have very little to say about this one, I have seen other peoples complaints and suggestions on it and honestly they do have merit. But I've rarely had a issue with it though I do have to agree with one complaint: the casting speed for that ability is far too slow. it kinda makes Speed Drift a necessity.

- Reave -

Out of all his skills, I really dislike this one the most. Charge skills in Warframe never felt that powerful to me this one more so.  You are pretty dependent on your Thralls for recovery and given how fast they get annihilated it doesn't feel that useful. 

I'd lose the charge and switch to a large AoE Aura, that siphons health/shields (scaling with PStrength and PRange?) from nearby Thralls, still keeps that vampire aspect you're going for and rewards the player for making Thralls!

- Danse Macabre -

Same with Mesmer skin, I don't really have many complaints about it, but the energy drain increase I fully understand why it was needed, tis a nice ability really. 

And now the longest part... - Enthrall -

This one ability gives Reverent a form of Identity crisis... is he a Summoner? a Overlord with a horde of minions at his back? Or a kind of crowd controller, by turning enemies into allies and causing infighting to help you or your team clear them out. 

This skill is like a odd mix of Nyx's Chaos and Mind Control coupled with Nekro's SotD... Has some of the benefits of those skills but ALL of the problems. I wish I was kidding too. 

I understand this skill is really just for generating a resource to get the best out of his other skills, not a lightweight SotD!  This is true and that's how it should be but by doing that you've given Revenant a massive set of problems, which cripples him badly. 

You see: Enemies turned allies through means like Enthrall / SotD  and Mind Control etc, are generally useless for a number of reasons. I'd say Enthralls fits all these problems...

- Enemy on Enemy Damage: When you have Enemies/Allies fighting other enemies without Nekros' multipliers  or the Mind Control Augment the damage they do is pretty much nothing but I will say in Enthralls case, this doesn't matter as it's only real objective is to spread the infection(?) to other targets till you hit cap and keep replenishing to that cap  

Although I'm for sure in the camp of people who would have loved to see a slight increase of damage, given they are infused with Sentient energy but I can understand why this might not happen. 

- Speed vs Static: This is one of the biggest issues Nekros faces with his minions too. They really don't keep up with you. Now Revenant can easily replace Thralls quickly true, while Nekros pretty much has to recast his ability but: Unlike Nekros, Revenant is pretty dependent on his cap not being full for this to happen, and given how quickly Enthrall can spread with Grineer especially you might find yourself waiting for the skill to expire or running back to kill the Thralls. 

The problem with Enemy-like Minions is they are generally static. They don't travel as fast as we do, especially from room to room! With Nekros it's kinda manageable (build depending) but with Revenant, you're running from room to room with your resources way behind you and no way to replenish them apart from waiting for it to expire or just running back, it really slows you and the mission down.  

- Slowing Down Missions: [Removed due to finding out the Thralls not longer count towards enemy count! 

- Wrap Up -

I love this Warframe, I really do! the style, the energy pouring out, the concept of the whole thing is great but: the confusion of what he's meant to be is what's really crippling him from his potential. You've got a mix of a Summoner and a Crowd controller that is completely different to Nekros but still offers a different take on the minion master play style to people who want it. (like me for instance)

But from my perspective his first ability is what's killing him because of the sheer indecisiveness of what it's trying to do. Is it a resource generator?  a means of making allies? or easy crowd control? 

If it's a resource generator then it's missing opportunity in other areas and becomes not really worth using since it's faster to kill a enemy rather then convert it. 

If it's for making allies then it also not worth it due to them being weak, static and killable by allies (mostly on accident) making Reave nearly worthless and in turn making Enthrall worthless.  

if it's for crowd control then it's limited to a few areas of the map and mission types due to the static problem and most often it's still better/faster to kill that target rather then convert. 

To me Enthrall is trying to do all those things and not doing a good job at it. Worse still this CAN BE a great skill! but I think the way it's going about it is wrong. 

My suggestion? Keep the Thralls the same as a resource for his other abilities! But offer through the means of a augment the ability to elevate a Thrall (2-3 of them) into a Protector or bodyguard if you will (Someone covered this kind of idea a few pages back and it's super!) allowing them to protect Revenant with a small set of bonuses to damage, health and movement speed (+ teleport to Revenant after a certain number of meters) but at the cost of receiving any kind of healing from outside sources so they'll have to be replaced after they die plusthe means to spread the Enthrall ability too.

It'd fit well with the vampire style as from what I've read in books and in games it's pretty common for vampires to turn powerful thrall-like entities into personal guardians to protect them.

A change like that would cover all bases and elimnate most problems! Minions, expendable resources for health recovery and overshields and decent CC from the spread and pillars while keeping to what Revenant is all about without encroaching on other Warframes. 

Maybe also turn Reave into that AoE Aura siphon as I said before, draining life/shields off normal Thralls while damaging them for it's duration. 

That's just my two cents though, I love the frame and can't wait to see what will happen to it! 

Edited September 5, 2018 by vakary829
Corrections.

[nokturnihs]

DE won't add friendly fire immunity to your thralls. Harrow is still the BEST Support frame in the game and every single ability he has is constantly blocked, neutralized or ruined by trigger happy teammates. He's been out forever and the recent changes to Saryn also make for frustrating team play as your teammates now work against you. Yes they finally made limbo something that CAN be played with groups (he's still annoying) but I think that's only due to the prime access release. OK, Revenant MIGHT get that fix, and Harrow when they get their day in Prime, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If they do remove FF killing of thralls, expect to lose those death pillars and expect to keep the nerf on his 4.

And to those people screaming for it (abrasively or politely) - I hope you get it. I personally would like to play Harrow myself (he has the same problem). 

I like the death pillars myself and think Nekros, Nyx and Rev's in general are pretty poor so if my teammates kill them, that's fine because I still get something out of it (the pillar).

Just a side note, and I may be wrong but I believe that, like Nekros, your thralls will mess with spawn cap and so that would also impact survival missions as well... that particular mechanic could've been patched out but if so I missed it in the changelogs.

[GPrime96]

2 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

Harrow is still the BEST Support frame in the game and every single ability he has is constantly blocked, neutralized or ruined by trigger happy teammates. He's been out forever and the recent changes to Saryn also make for frustrating team play as your teammates now work against you.

Also Nidus in Survivals.

[cursedmoon13]

The more I play "Rev" the more I think his thralls need something like a "survivability pool" that gives defensive buffs that are split up among your thralls, enough that killing your last thrall wouldn't be worth the effort to your "teammates" to just casually kill off for no reason. Something like DR 90%/x, and health regen 10 - x (just spitballing, no math has been done to determine the viability of these numbers). Done right, a single thrall could be killed, but wouldn't be worth the effort, while (depending on the cap) enough thralls would start slowly dying on their own.

[(XBOX)ToonDude X99]

3 minutes ago, cursedmoon13 said:

The more I play "Rev" the more I think his thralls need something like a "survivability pool" that gives defensive buffs that are split up among your thralls, enough that killing your last thrall wouldn't be worth the effort to your "teammates" to just casually kill off for no reason. Something like DR 90%/x, and health regen 10 - x (just spitballing, no math has been done to determine the viability of these numbers). Done right, a single thrall could be killed, but wouldn't be worth the effort, while (depending on the cap) enough thralls would start slowly dying on their own.

I like that, it makes rev a team player

[VieuxPappy]

il y a 45 minutes, nokturnihs a dit :

DE won't add friendly fire immunity to your thralls. Harrow is still the BEST Support frame in the game and every single ability he has is constantly blocked, neutralized or ruined by trigger happy teammates. He's been out forever and the recent changes to Saryn also make for frustrating team play as your teammates now work against you. Yes they finally made limbo something that CAN be played with groups (he's still annoying) but I think that's only due to the prime access release. OK, Revenant MIGHT get that fix, and Harrow when they get their day in Prime, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If they do remove FF killing of thralls, expect to lose those death pillars and expect to keep the nerf on his 4.

And to those people screaming for it (abrasively or politely) - I hope you get it. I personally would like to play Harrow myself (he has the same problem). 

I like the death pillars myself and think Nekros, Nyx and Rev's in general are pretty poor so if my teammates kill them, that's fine because I still get something out of it (the pillar).

Just a side note, and I may be wrong but I believe that, like Nekros, your thralls will mess with spawn cap and so that would also impact survival missions as well... that particular mechanic could've been patched out but if so I missed it in the changelogs.

You're either a bad harrow or play against enemies with lvls so low that you never actually need to use any abilities to survive as harrow. Chaining a whole corridor of enemies is near instant and, even if the enemies are killed right after, you already got the benefits of your 1, where as with Rev's 1 works only on one enemy at a time and takes longer to cast. What is the point of having "minions" if they do no damage and get instantly blown by teamates before they can spread the enthralling? 

About your "oh but I get shinny useless pillars and I'm cool with it", well we're happy for you if you're so simple. For the rest of us, we know the pillars do pitiful damage (even at 200%+ str) and are only useful if you micro manage and kill your thralls in tight corridors or doorways which is too much work for it's worth. Spending 25 energy for a decently nice looking (but useless) pillar is stupid and any player looking to maximize Rev's energy effectiveness will simply not bother with it. I hope you get that, as you said. 

Right now you sound like a jealous kid that is afraid Rev gets some (needed) love because his shiny Harrow didn't get what he personally wanted.  Finally, you're not DE so stop assuming. There's almost 50 pages of players,like me, that see the multiple issues (such as thralls being vaporized way too quickly in non-solo games) that Rev has... if DE are competent and care they will listen to the majority. 

[shortymafia420]

quest wont load my game gliched mid quest and now wont let me restart the quest. iv tryed reloading the game and removing the mask and puting it back on still nothing. 

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

@[DE]Rebecca@[DE]Pablo

The pillars need to go, the Thralls just need to explode with some fancy effects ( aka dealing the last type of dmg that killed them or a dmg based on a % of health of the enemies hit, [ ACID SHELLS mechanic, HINT HINT DE HINT HINT ), with a 10/15 meters radius, then we have scaling dmg and they can get instakilled by friends/enemies and their death will be always useful, or last longer providing aggro diversion till they die , If they live they'll grant a useful effect, if they die they'll be useful by dealing dmg, it's a WIN - WIN situation and they won't be as mediocre as they are now

Passive IDEA :

As long as REV has shields on he's IMMUNE to any status effects , just like the Eidolons...if he's affected by a proc when having 0 shields, as soon as he gets them back up the procs will be cleansed..

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by arm4geddon-117

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

The pillars need to go, the Thralls just need to explode with some fancy effects ( aka dealing the last type of dmg that killed them or a dmg based on a % of health of the enemies hit, [ ACID SHELLS mechanic, HINT HINT DE HINT HINT ), with a 10/15 meters radius, then we have scaling dmg and they can get instakilled by friends/enemies and their death will be always useful, or last longer providing aggro diversion till they die , If they live they'll grant a useful effect, if they die they'll be useful by dealing dmg, it's a WIN - WIN situation and they won't be as mediocre as they are now

Passive IDEA :

As long as REV has shields on, he's IMMUNE to any status effects , just like the Eidolons...if he's affected by a proc when having 0 shields, as soon as he gets them back up the procs will be cleansed..

Edited September 3, 2018 by arm4geddon-117