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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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I have fond a way to fix Mesmer Skin. 

Mesmer Skin is suppose to be like Rhino's Iron Skin but it is quite inferior due to two issues.

The first is that it run out two quickly. Because you lose a stack every time you get hit and you only have 6 stacks it doesn't take much to run out. 
And if it doesn't run out you are usually left with 1 or 2 stacks left. 
To fix this, give Revenant the ability to refresh Mesmer Skin, and in stack count by 1 or 2 more.

The Second problem with Mesmer Skin is that if you take more damage than you have health or shields, you just die. This much different than Iron Skin and all for the worst
Unlike Iron Skin, Mesmer Skin has no scaling for high level content. Rhino doesn't have the best scaling ability but it does scale and it starts off with thousands of health points to boot.
Because Mesmer skin doesn't have health point but hit points instead, it uses Revenant's current shields and health as a threshold for some reason. 

I am not an expert on how abilities are calculated but I believe the easies way to fix this would be to make Revenant invincible when he has Mesmer Skin up. This might be considered OP by some if you add it to other suggestion, that to make it refreshable, but I don't see it that way. Mesmer skin can easily loose its stacks quite quickly and if your not careful you will still easily loose all of your stacks. All being invincible really does, it lets you use Mesmer skin on high levels. Add that to the quality of life buff with refresh, and you got a solid defense ability that can scale, but still wont keep you alive if your being stupid.

Summary: Make Mesmer Skin's stacks refreshable, and make Revenant Invincible so that the ability doesn't get bypassed at high damaging enemies.

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1 hour ago, Droopsie said:

Personally I think danse macabre massively suffers when enemies are at different heights, especially on the hills in the plains where enemies are dotted all over the place which is slightly concerning since we are getting more open world focused, any thoughts on this? It also looks like in the last update it sweeps a wider vertical angle, which just makes it even harder to hit my intended target when i'm not surrounded by enemies at the same height.

over charge, use energy pizza, use arcane energise, use zenurik dash. he has a 500+ energy pool, it kills bosses like they are paper. all my time spent playing revenant. ive not had any trouble staying alive, with how i always target threatning enemies for enthrall which removes them from combat immediately (also gives team buff depending on what it is). mesmer skin just needs a different way to tell players how many more bullets can get blocked because it blocks more than it actually says.

people keep saying hes useless, or his powers are bad, or this or that. i say his powers need some tweaks but they work as intended for the most part. the only thing i dislike about revenant is his quest was locked behind content id rather claw my eyes out than do. so i bought him with plat and it was a more worthy buy than khora who was struggling pretty hard in the beginning. what i see is DE will over buff, and then over nerf, because people are fickle and dont know what balance is or how it plays a role in solo and in team play.

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lol been readin some feedback from starchart heroes( ppl who never been in mot more then 10min) claiming his 2 is really powerful.. wait what? he gets 1 shotted through his 2 in 40min + runs also it cant be refreshed so you die if you jump into fight without enough charges... pls dont even try to give feedback when you do 10 minute runs in pluto,eris,sedna and think thats what frame effectiveness is based upon.. any frame is good in starcharts... there is a reason nidus is considered a god!

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7 minutes ago, GABRIEL0296 said:

lol been readin some feedback from starchart heroes( ppl who never been in mot more then 10min) claiming his 2 is really powerful.. wait what? he gets 1 shotted through his 2 in 40min + runs also it cant be refreshed so you die if you jump into fight without enough charges... pls dont even try to give feedback when you do 10 minute runs in pluto,eris,sedna and think thats what frame effectiveness is based upon.. any frame is good in starcharts... there is a reason nidus is considered a god!

After i seen him getting one shotted by specific enemies with max Power Strength, i don’t think there’s such a thing as Enough Charges. His EHP is 998 (I calculated it) with Vitality so it’s easy for the enemies to go through his EHP and make him die in one shot through his Mesmer Skin. Another thing about his Survivability is his Armor. It’s slightly higher than Ember’s but lower than Octavia’s and definitely Rhino’s. So he’s got Glass Cannon Survivability and his Mesmer skin would helped if the way enemies ignore Mesmer Skin don’t be a thing.

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37 minutes ago, GABRIEL0296 said:

lol been readin some feedback from starchart heroes( ppl who never been in mot more then 10min) claiming his 2 is really powerful.. wait what? he gets 1 shotted through his 2 in 40min + runs also it cant be refreshed so you die if you jump into fight without enough charges... pls dont even try to give feedback when you do 10 minute runs in pluto,eris,sedna and think thats what frame effectiveness is based upon.. any frame is good in starcharts... there is a reason nidus is considered a god!

DE doesnt use mot to balance anything because only mot and nightmare is there a x3 damage modifier. mot is also optional since void has another non x3 damage mod survival node so...

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3 hours ago, D1v1ne said:

Revenant Rework

Preface:

I know he was just released, but I thought I would put my ideas out there.

My interpretation of Sentients is that they are extremely adaptable to a situation, both offensively and defensively by switching modes.
They also appear to be able to aid one another in a group manner and provide boons to their comrades. 

Goals: 

- Enhance/Maintain the Sentient aesthetic and stay relatively close to the original interpretation.
- Introduce minimally invasive mechanics from an implementation perspective, that scale into "late game".
- Improve Ability/kit cohesion to feel more fluid and non-contentious with teammates.

Current Issues:

- Revenant's mind control mechanic (1) is low impact, low reward, thralls die easily to friendly fire and maintaining them has little impact on encounters themselves
- Revenant provides little to his team other than dps in the form of his 4 (which is fine, but leaves him feeling like a one trick pony)
- Revenant's 2 ability feels uninteractive. The cc is useful for survivability but doesn't feel aesthetically "sentient"
- Revenant's 3 ability doesnt feel like an appropriate way to sustain himself, does not scale well and doesnt inherently feel "sentient"

Proposed Changes/Reworks:

    Passive: Sentient Mechanic

    For each Sentient under Revenant's control, Revenant's abilites are enhanced as he gathers sentient energy to reform his body (maximum 100).
    Revenant can also change the focus of his sentient energy, protecting himself from damage types, or adapting to his enemies defenses.
    
    Abilites:
    
    - (1) Enthrall: Convert a target into a thrall. Thralls turn on their allies and enthrall other enemies through damage. On death, thralls become vomvalysts
    that continue to attack enemies. (This portion could be converted to a Augment) Nearby vomvalysts heal Revenant over time while he is in Defensive mode.
    Thralls and vomalysts remain under Revenant's spell until this ability runs out.  

    - (2) Mesmer Skin: (35s base duration) While in Defensive mode, for each Sentient under Revenant's control, Revenant gains stacking health, shield, and an adaptive % damage reducion buff. Damage reduction increases based on the type of damage recieved and resets upon the ability ending, Note: this could also be simple Armor for easier implementation.
     While in Offensive mode, Revenant gains a stacking adaptive damage type bonus based on the defence of the target he is attacking.
    (stacks scale with power strength)
    
    Conditions:
    (requires a minimum of 1 Sentient under his control to cast)

    - (3) Coalescence: (Channel ability) Sentient energy infused in thralls and vomalysts coalesce into a Battalyst that gains health, shields, damage and armor based on the number of infused targets (influenced by power strength, releases thralled targets). In Defensive mode, the battalyst will orbit and stay close to Revenant providing
    damage reduction that is redirected to the battalyst (affected by power strength) and passive shield regeneration up to overshield cap to revenant and nearby allies (affected by range). While in Offense mode, the battalyst will seek targets with extreme prejudice.
    
    This ability maintains the Sentient count of those infused into the Battalyst and are lost upon death or release of the battalyst. This is meant to preserve buffs and provide an incentive for maintaining the sentient count.
     
    Conditions:
    (requires a minimum of 3 sentients under his control to cast)
    
    Pressing this ability again infuses new thralls and vomvalysts into the battalyst while holding it again will deconstruct the battalyst.  
    
    - (4) Reconstruction: Hold to swap between Defensive Configuration and Offensive Configuration. (Channel ability) Pressing this ability in Offense mode activates Danse Macabre with the original implemenation but damage, and range scale with the number of sentients under revenant's control.
     In Defense mode, Revenant cries out for the aid of sentients under his control (like a Teralyst) sending out shockwaves that cause magnetic procs on shielded enemies, corrosive to armored, and disorient/stun enemies for 5 seconds (effected by range)  and give a speed boost, damage reduction, health/shield regen to allies that persist for 20 seconds base (effected by power strength and duration).

    Conditions:
    Activating these abilities requires a minimum of 5 sentients under the control of Revenant and consumes 5 sentients upon use.   


If you got to the end, thanks for reading, I'd like some feedback.    🙂

Awesome ideas across the board. Tbh this should be how ravenant was originally designed.

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If Revenant is ever going to be anything other than a mobile disco ball, Thralls need HUGE buffs. I'm talking scaling damage, damage reduction from players, and more health. They need to be worth using for something other than a temporary distraction. 

You've got three abilities focused around mind controlling enemies, but enemies aren't worth mind controlling.

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7 hours ago, Sybariel said:

but faces issues in higher levels of play due to Enthrall's current impotence, the casting time, and inability to replenish charges.

You forgot one important thing, it doesnt defend you against any kind of enviromental damage.

A thrown grenade, tar on the ground, a missed rocket, flames from the angry cat lady or whatever as soon as its not directly targeting you it will kill you.

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Actually with some testing i did, enthralls that die and leave the pillar in their place, still give you the benefits from using your 3rd on them, which are added health and overshields.

 

 

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Okay im gonna throw in my rework proposal maybe DE reads atleast one of it here.

Passive: Revenant shares overshields and overheals with his teammates in a 10 meter range, maximum shared overheals and shields are 25%.

Passive 2: Revenant is capatable of gaining +100% overheals what deplate by 0.5 per 1 sec.

Enthrall: Cap stays at 7, when destroyed by players thralled enemies turn into a red fog what grants +100 health when touched by an ally and +200 when touched by Revenant. Grants overheals if used by revenant.

(This to fix the thralls being useless when your teammates or you destroy them because they were at the bad spot in a bad time)

Mesmer Skin: Grants passive 50% damage reduction against enviromental damage, auto enthralls stunned targets if they are no more than 5 meter away from the player.

Reave: Instant cast, instead of draining thralled targets reave now grants them +200% movement speed and infinite punchthrought. Reave leaves back a lingering trail of sentient energy what increases power efficiency by 5% and blocks enemy projectiles and shots for 10 seconds.

Danse Macabre: Changed to flat cost of 150. Revenant channels sentient energy into his arm and launches a chaining beam of pure energy. Damage type depends on the targets, deals 1250 damage per sec but each chain decreases the damage by 10%, theres no cap on the chains as long as each target is max 10 meter away from the previous. Stays active for 20 seconds, while active all damage taken is redirected into the beam.

Shooting enthralled targets causes double damage on them and grants 1/sec overshields and overheals.

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So i noticed something that i would personally love for it to stay, whether it was intended or not;

I played a defense mission on solo, Akkad, and when the enemies were just about done in each wave, I'd enthrall them and the wave would continue onto the next, while still having those enthralled enemies alive.

I really like this touch, it's as if the thralls were been treated as Nekros' shadows, however, until the duration wears off, they won't be yours anymore.

 

 

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23 hours ago, onlyjokes said:

I love it tho for me I think enthrall thralls should work like nekros shadows but only you can kill them and they don't count as the staff you have to kill in a defence mission

and for Mesmer skin I think it should have 1 - 2 sec gate where you can't be touched so the it isn't gone in 1 or 2 seconds  

P.S I love the augment Idea

 

you know, funny thing, that when you enthrall the last few enemies, which is capped at 7, they dont have to be killed, but instead the wave continue onto the next.

I did this in solo mode, so idk how it'll work in public matches.

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The new warframe Revenant has an above average amount of shield. I thought, why not use that shield to scale the defensive ability.

-Make the stack of the skin scale with the amount of shield. eg. one stack of skin is 200 shield. 2000 shield is ten stacks.

-the amount of shield cost scale with efficiency. 

-this convert the shield bar into stack bar. eg. 10 stack= (shield)(health) => (----------)(health)

-each damage consume one stack and deal the normal effects

-cost one stack to remove a status proc

-activate the ability again to remove the skin and restore shield ( can be limited by having capping on refill amount eg. 50% shield)

why?

-to make use of the high amount of shield

-make [Redirection] useful 

-so you don't have to build for strength to make a tanky build

-open the frame to more build possibility 

thanks for reading ❤️

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I have an idea for Revenant’s other abilities.

 

1. Make targeted enemy slave. Unlimited slave number.

 

2. Charge reflecting shield for the number of enemies around. The radius is influenced with ability range. Increased cast speed.

 

3. Take enemies’ shield and health. Take sone energy from the slaves. Decreased energy cost. (25)

 

4. No change from now

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Didnt read much of the previous comments, just wanted to be vocal about my opinion.

  • Passive: similar to novas, a bit better cause you can easily knock melee mobs. Still not very interesting
  • 1st: i dont even know if it does anything at most times. If i and the rest of the squad stand still, than sure, the thralls do something. But in every other case, you cast it, it spreads to like 2-3 more, they die like they usually would and thats it. Interesting skill, but i feel like its on a wrong frame, or its thought out wrong.
  • 2nd: is this the useful one? its okay. again not sure how thematically it all works together, but it lets you use your 1st for free, which is useless, so there is that.
  • 3rd: this thing costs 75 energy to cast, lol the animation does feel a bit long, and it kind of feels useless. It doesnt do any damage, and you have you 2nd on most of the time, so you are either dead or you have mesmer skin on. So the ability has no point in the kit. You dont have any way to intentionally drain hp/shields and you already have 2nd as a good defensive ability.
  • 4th: the rave-enant, it looks cool. Thats it, its not ground breaking, there are plenty of high damaging 4th abilities from other frames, this one is just more flashy and more gimmicky. Cause supposedly killed thralls leave overshield pickups but, by the time you already cast 2nd so you can cast 1st for free and set everything up, everybody else will already be 5 rooms ahead. And gaining shields only works toward your passive, which isnt all that spectacular. 

 

TL;DR

 The idea of a eidolon frame sounds great,it just isnt executed in the best way. There is little connection to the eidolons we fight in the plains and there is little synergy between the abilities themselves. 

If anybody asked for my input on the abilities,

it would require a lot of work with the entire frame.

Passive would be that your hp cant take dmg while you have shields, and the more shields you have the stronger your abilities are.

And than you try and go with the whole overshields pick up thing.

  • 1st could be that after the thrall is killed it becomes a ghost, which has limited life span 
  • 2nd if you come in contact with the ghost thrall you gain a charge of mesmer skin, but it no longer stuns the enemy it just blinds him or does something else...i dont know.
  • 3rd thralls that come in contact with you become ghosts, and the ones that arent materialize again.
  • 4th ...stay as it is? 

Hope you like my ideas, or at least someone elses who might have better. Cause i would just love to see the streak of these hybrid frames (khora) be broken.

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I don't own the revevant but by the stats what he got I can say he is an avarege warframe. Health wise he is mediocre, he have 105 armor which means he is squishy frame and his shields can be huge with a maxed redirection but we all know how the shields lose their own role when players go higher levels. His first ability is basically nyx chaos but not really the same maount and the thralls cannot reach huge numbers. Mesmer skin is interesting and something similar like iron skin. His third is most of the time seems useless and his ulti is nice and all but that energy cost is too high so it's own point to be attacker is drops because the energy cost reduce it's potential. He is squishy so that damage what his ult does is compensate him

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Me again 😄
I have a question..
Why enemies stunned by Mesmer Skin, are not available for a finisher ?
I wanted to test with a dagger and Covert Lethality, and it does not matter, we simply attack the enemy as if he were not stunned ..
Which is very odd because he is as stunned as if he had been touched by the 1 of inaros..
I think people who think mesmer skin is not as good as Iron skin would be happy to see this kind of utility..
And even without think about them, it's just logical, that stunned enemies must be available for finisher. '-'

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i think if DE wants to avoid the set it up and done mechanic i think they should redesign the abilities rather the still comtinue to make enticing set it up abilities and then nerf them to the ground after a set ammount of time. anyone wanna bet revenant is going to fallow embers level of nerf?

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4 hours ago, LAWD said:

you know, funny thing, that when you enthrall the last few enemies, which is capped at 7, they dont have to be killed, but instead the wave continue onto the next.

I did this in solo mode, so idk how it'll work in public matches.

oh really thinks thats petty handy to know

 

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His cast times needs to be decreased.

Passive

Revenant's shields take 50% less damage.

 

Enthrall :

Thralls gain 90% damage reduction ( to ally damage ), +100% movement & attack speed.

Movement and Attack Speed buff are affected by Power Strength. 

Pillar radius is also increased to 5 meters.

 

Mesmer Skin :

Mesmer Skin is applied to health. Works similar to Eidolon synovias , charges can be consumed when Revenant's shields are down. Damage to shields won't consume any charges.

When charges depleted , Revenant screeches like Eidolons and emits a radial blast that stuns all enemies for 3 seconds in 15 meters radius. Stun duration is not affected by duration but stun radius is affected by range.

 

Reave :

If Reave hits 5 or more enemies / thralls , it grants 2 Mesmer Skin charges and refunds half of spent energy.

 

Danse Macabre

Energy drain is set to 30 energy per sec but also empowered state becomes Danse Macabre's default function and no longer requires holding left-click.

Synergies ;

Enthrall - Thralls deal 20% of their health as damage in 10 meters radius when they are killed with Danse Macabre and grant Revenant and his allies overshields ( no longer requires grabbing overshield pickups )

Reave - If Reave hits 5 or more enemies / thralls while in Danse of Macabre , it refunds all energy spent on Reave.

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I play Revenant as a support cc with a light splash of damage. I use double arcane enrgize and Danse Macabre to output maximum energy restore for my team while also applying cc by controlling mobs. You can use said mobs to cause splash damage vortexes which do a ton of damage when stacked together. If you killed 30 enemies together it would be equal to around a fully modded pyrana prime (300k dps). Buffing vortex damage would help a lot. Also allowing allies to restore their health or energy when enemies are killed by Danse Macabre sounds cool as well, who needs overshields because so many frames do this already...

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i haven't read the whole tread, but a little thing that left me quite dumbfoubded is the spinning animation of revenant's ultimate power: the spinning translation movement reminds me more of a carillon ballerina rather than suggesting the reverence and the fear that eidolons cast upon players, especially when seen on teammates. 

Without altering the power's mechanics, the laser animation could be changed with the radial attacks that the Hydrolist does, while revenant moves freely, or the laser animation could be left untouched but maintaining the warframe in a new static cast animation, like umbra's one for radial blind or one reminding eidolons. 

As it is now, it just feels... kinda silly

 

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