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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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As I said in a previous post (almost 20 pages ago), on top of making all of his abilities less clunky and quicker to use, to make Rev viable endgame he needs:

  • Thralls have to be immune to all teamate's damage. Damage that wasdealt to them is received all at once when the duration expires.
  • Thralls' death releases an AoE that both damages but also enthralls survivors of said AoE. AoE damage type/status proc is based on the type of damage that dealt the killing blow to the thrall. This allows a LOT less babysitting in making new thralls. 
  • Thralls need a big damage buff similar to Nekros shadows. Enemy on enemy damage is completly useless otherwise.

 

  • Mesmer skin needs to be time gated to at LEAST 3 sec if not 5 sec for each charge.
  • Mesmer skin needs to be refresh-able.
  • Mesmer skin should only protect Rev's hp pool, not his shield.

 

  • Reave leech effect should replenish Rev's shield (once his hp are top off) even if used on non-corpus enemies.
  • Reave leech on non-thrall needs to be at least 20% to be worth using.
  • Reave needs to give back energy based on the amount of enemies affected like Nidus' Virulence. 
  • Reave refreshes enthralling duration on affected enemies.

 

  • Overshield obtained from Danse Macabre needs to be instantly given to everybody in the team like Volt's 4 with it's augment. No need to walk over the bodies, it's tedious. 
  • Danse Macabre should give overshield on all kills, not just thralls, and the amount given scales off of the victim's total hp/shield. 
  • Thralls killed by Danse Macabre should give a mesmer skin charge to Rev.

 

  • New passive (on top of current one): For X amount of shield lost, Rev gains Y amount of energy back. With this new passive and the fact that Mesmer Skin would now only protects hp, shield loss fuels Rev's energy which fuels his 40 energy/sec consumption with DM which, with kills, fuels his shields back up. Awesome synergy without being OP.

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4 hours ago, robby2074 said:

other way around on the names and what they do 

side note Theme for Revenant was Vampire + Sentient 

 

Anyways some changes I hope to see effect rev 

1st ablity be able to either entrall more at once or have more resistance to Non rev players (Preferred if enthralls get the same effect as Nyx's MC target where damage is accumlated from FF rather than done at moment) 

Mesmar skin simply needs a time gate (Like 2-3 seconds,maybe effected by mods)

Reave simply need sped up on the animation (So it's more akin to Hydroid's in terms of beginning to end) 

Dance of death simply needs more damage due to the energy cost increase and maybe something else

Seems so! I always seem to mix them up since the one means to melee and the other a volley of concussive force but it is what it is. They are parts of Hunhow though, not Eidolons. Theme was always Eidolon, and thus as a side deal since Rebecca likes Vampires, a vampire warframe. That ties back into the concept art that was used for him shown a while back with Amps and the Plains. Eidolons are Sentient in that is what their still living pieces are, but the actual Original Sentient's mind is gone leaving what is for all intents and purposes Undead Sentient with little to no mind of their original self.

Interesting suggestions on the abilities, but what if entralled enemies burst into those pillars when the duration runs out instead of allies killing them? A time gate on Mesmer Skin, could work, but would that just prevent the damage instances during that time or buff the effect by the damage sidestepped? Reave is a bit disappointing in that unlike other dash forward moves, you have no protection and it is a bit slow to move while having low damage output it seems. Danse Macabre could use more damage for that cost I would agree; what if it acted as an exalted or just had higher base? Would that help?

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Righto, I've had a good play with Revenant on various modes and even a few sorties... Gotta be said I DO LIKE this Warframe a lot, but he suffers the same problem Nekros does with his SotD which limits his uses in other modes aside from Survival and Defense style missions and honestly aside from his 1st and 4th he doesn't do it as well. 

It really boils down to his Enthrall, but I'll get into that later. 

- Passive - 

Let's start with his passive, a knockdown AoE upon shield depletion which on paper looks great! But in practice ehh... I get the idea but the range! oh dear, the range is waaay too short to be useful, even for melee targets... plus with my build I rarely see it trigger. (High shields + Arcane Aegis / Raksa Protect) 

I've seen some good ideas for passive changes but if anything just make the radius bigger! 

- Mesmer Skin -

I actually have very little to say about this one, I have seen other peoples complaints and suggestions on it and honestly they do have merit. But I've rarely had a issue with it though I do have to agree with one complaint: the casting speed for that ability is far too slow. it kinda makes Speed Drift a necessity.

- Reave -

Out of all his skills, I really dislike this one the most. Charge skills in Warframe never felt that powerful to me this one more so.  You are pretty dependent on your Thralls for recovery and given how fast they get annihilated it doesn't feel that useful. 

I'd lose the charge and switch to a large AoE Aura, that siphons health/shields (scaling with PStrength and PRange?) from nearby Thralls, still keeps that vampire aspect you're going for and rewards the player for making Thralls!

- Danse Macabre -

Same with Mesmer skin, I don't really have many complaints about it, but the energy drain increase I fully understand why it was needed, tis a nice ability really. 

And now the longest part... - Enthrall -

This one ability gives Reverent a form of Identity crisis... is he a Summoner? a Overlord with a horde of minions at his back? Or a kind of crowd controller, by turning enemies into allies and causing infighting to help you or your team clear them out. 

This skill is like a odd mix of Nyx's Chaos and Mind Control coupled with Nekro's SotD... Has some of the benefits of those skills but ALL of the problems. I wish I was kidding too. 

I understand this skill is really just for generating a resource to get the best out of his other skills, not a lightweight SotD!  This is true and that's how it should be but by doing that you've given Revenant a massive set of problems, which cripples him badly. 

You see: Enemies turned allies through means like Enthrall / SotD  and Mind Control etc, are generally useless for a number of reasons. I'd say Enthralls fits all these problems...

- Enemy on Enemy Damage: When you have Enemies/Allies fighting other enemies without Nekros' multipliers  or the Mind Control Augment the damage they do is pretty much nothing but I will say in Enthralls case, this doesn't matter as it's only real objective is to spread the infection(?) to other targets till you hit cap and keep replenishing to that cap  

Although I'm for sure in the camp of people who would have loved to see a slight increase of damage, given they are infused with Sentient energy but I can understand why this might not happen. 

- Speed vs Static: This is one of the biggest issues Nekros faces with his minions too. They really don't keep up with you. Now Revenant can easily replace Thralls quickly true, while Nekros pretty much has to recast his ability but: Unlike Nekros, Revenant is pretty dependent on his cap not being full for this to happen, and given how quickly Enthrall can spread with Grineer especially you might find yourself waiting for the skill to expire or running back to kill the Thralls. 

The problem with Enemy-like Minions is they are generally static. They don't travel as fast as we do, especially from room to room! With Nekros it's kinda manageable (build depending) but with Revenant, you're running from room to room with your resources way behind you and no way to replenish them apart from waiting for it to expire or just running back, it really slows you and the mission down.  

- Slowing Down Missions: [Removed due to finding out the Thralls not longer count towards enemy count! 

- Wrap Up -

I love this Warframe, I really do! the style, the energy pouring out, the concept of the whole thing is great but: the confusion of what he's meant to be is what's really crippling him from his potential. You've got a mix of a Summoner and a Crowd controller that is completely different to Nekros but still offers a different take on the minion master play style to people who want it. (like me for instance)

But from my perspective his first ability is what's killing him because of the sheer indecisiveness of what it's trying to do. Is it a resource generator?  a means of making allies? or easy crowd control? 

If it's a resource generator then it's missing opportunity in other areas and becomes not really worth using since it's faster to kill a enemy rather then convert it. 

If it's for making allies then it also not worth it due to them being weak, static and killable by allies (mostly on accident) making Reave nearly worthless and in turn making Enthrall worthless.  

if it's for crowd control then it's limited to a few areas of the map and mission types due to the static problem and most often it's still better/faster to kill that target rather then convert. 

To me Enthrall is trying to do all those things and not doing a good job at it. Worse still this CAN BE a great skill! but I think the way it's going about it is wrong. 

My suggestion? Keep the Thralls the same as a resource for his other abilities! But offer through the means of a augment the ability to elevate a Thrall (2-3 of them) into a Protector or bodyguard if you will (Someone covered this kind of idea a few pages back and it's super!) allowing them to protect Revenant with a small set of bonuses to damage, health and movement speed (+ teleport to Revenant after a certain number of meters) but at the cost of receiving any kind of healing from outside sources so they'll have to be replaced after they die plusthe means to spread the Enthrall ability too.

It'd fit well with the vampire style as from what I've read in books and in games it's pretty common for vampires to turn powerful thrall-like entities into personal guardians to protect them.

A change like that would cover all bases and elimnate most problems! Minions, expendable resources for health recovery and overshields and decent CC from the spread and pillars while keeping to what Revenant is all about without encroaching on other Warframes. 

Maybe also turn Reave into that AoE Aura siphon as I said before, draining life/shields off normal Thralls while damaging them for it's duration. 

That's just my two cents though, I love the frame and can't wait to see what will happen to it! 

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DE won't add friendly fire immunity to your thralls. Harrow is still the BEST Support frame in the game and every single ability he has is constantly blocked, neutralized or ruined by trigger happy teammates. He's been out forever and the recent changes to Saryn also make for frustrating team play as your teammates now work against you. Yes they finally made limbo something that CAN be played with groups (he's still annoying) but I think that's only due to the prime access release. OK, Revenant MIGHT get that fix, and Harrow when they get their day in Prime, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If they do remove FF killing of thralls, expect to lose those death pillars and expect to keep the nerf on his 4.

And to those people screaming for it (abrasively or politely) - I hope you get it. I personally would like to play Harrow myself (he has the same problem). 

I like the death pillars myself and think Nekros, Nyx and Rev's in general are pretty poor so if my teammates kill them, that's fine because I still get something out of it (the pillar).

Just a side note, and I may be wrong but I believe that, like Nekros, your thralls will mess with spawn cap and so that would also impact survival missions as well... that particular mechanic could've been patched out but if so I missed it in the changelogs.

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2 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

Harrow is still the BEST Support frame in the game and every single ability he has is constantly blocked, neutralized or ruined by trigger happy teammates. He's been out forever and the recent changes to Saryn also make for frustrating team play as your teammates now work against you.

Also Nidus in Survivals.

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The more I play "Rev" the more I think his thralls need something like a "survivability pool" that gives defensive buffs that are split up among your thralls, enough that killing your last thrall wouldn't be worth the effort to your "teammates" to just casually kill off for no reason. Something like DR 90%/x, and health regen 10 - x (just spitballing, no math has been done to determine the viability of these numbers). Done right, a single thrall could be killed, but wouldn't be worth the effort, while (depending on the cap) enough thralls would start slowly dying on their own.

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3 minutes ago, cursedmoon13 said:

The more I play "Rev" the more I think his thralls need something like a "survivability pool" that gives defensive buffs that are split up among your thralls, enough that killing your last thrall wouldn't be worth the effort to your "teammates" to just casually kill off for no reason. Something like DR 90%/x, and health regen 10 - x (just spitballing, no math has been done to determine the viability of these numbers). Done right, a single thrall could be killed, but wouldn't be worth the effort, while (depending on the cap) enough thralls would start slowly dying on their own.

I like that, it makes rev a team player

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il y a 45 minutes, nokturnihs a dit :

DE won't add friendly fire immunity to your thralls. Harrow is still the BEST Support frame in the game and every single ability he has is constantly blocked, neutralized or ruined by trigger happy teammates. He's been out forever and the recent changes to Saryn also make for frustrating team play as your teammates now work against you. Yes they finally made limbo something that CAN be played with groups (he's still annoying) but I think that's only due to the prime access release. OK, Revenant MIGHT get that fix, and Harrow when they get their day in Prime, but I wouldn't hold my breath. If they do remove FF killing of thralls, expect to lose those death pillars and expect to keep the nerf on his 4.

And to those people screaming for it (abrasively or politely) - I hope you get it. I personally would like to play Harrow myself (he has the same problem). 

I like the death pillars myself and think Nekros, Nyx and Rev's in general are pretty poor so if my teammates kill them, that's fine because I still get something out of it (the pillar).

Just a side note, and I may be wrong but I believe that, like Nekros, your thralls will mess with spawn cap and so that would also impact survival missions as well... that particular mechanic could've been patched out but if so I missed it in the changelogs.

You're either a bad harrow or play against enemies with lvls so low that you never actually need to use any abilities to survive as harrow. Chaining a whole corridor of enemies is near instant and, even if the enemies are killed right after, you already got the benefits of your 1, where as with Rev's 1 works only on one enemy at a time and takes longer to cast. What is the point of having "minions" if they do no damage and get instantly blown by teamates before they can spread the enthralling? 

About your "oh but I get shinny useless pillars and I'm cool with it", well we're happy for you if you're so simple. For the rest of us, we know the pillars do pitiful damage (even at 200%+ str) and are only useful if you micro manage and kill your thralls in tight corridors or doorways which is too much work for it's worth. Spending 25 energy for a decently nice looking (but useless) pillar is stupid and any player looking to maximize Rev's energy effectiveness will simply not bother with it. I hope you get that, as you said. 

Right now you sound like a jealous kid that is afraid Rev gets some (needed) love because his shiny Harrow didn't get what he personally wanted.  Finally, you're not DE so stop assuming. There's almost 50 pages of players,like me, that see the multiple issues (such as thralls being vaporized way too quickly in non-solo games) that Rev has... if DE are competent and care they will listen to the majority. 

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quest wont load my game gliched mid quest and now wont let me restart the quest. iv tryed reloading the game and removing the mask and puting it back on still nothing. 

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@[DE]Rebecca@[DE]Pablo

The pillars need to go, the Thralls just need to explode with some fancy effects ( aka dealing the last type of dmg that killed them or a dmg based on a % of health of the enemies hit, [ ACID SHELLS mechanic, HINT HINT DE HINT HINT ), with a 10/15 meters radius, then we have scaling dmg and they can get instakilled by friends/enemies and their death will be always useful, or last longer providing aggro diversion till they die , If they live they'll grant a useful effect, if they die they'll be useful by dealing dmg, it's a WIN - WIN situation and they won't be as mediocre as they are now

Passive IDEA :

As long as REV has shields on he's IMMUNE to any status effects , just like the Eidolons...if he's affected by a proc when having 0 shields, as soon as he gets them back up the procs will be cleansed..

 

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The pillars need to go, the Thralls just need to explode with some fancy effects ( aka dealing the last type of dmg that killed them or a dmg based on a % of health of the enemies hit, [ ACID SHELLS mechanic, HINT HINT DE HINT HINT ), with a 10/15 meters radius, then we have scaling dmg and they can get instakilled by friends/enemies and their death will be always useful, or last longer providing aggro diversion till they die , If they live they'll grant a useful effect, if they die they'll be useful by dealing dmg, it's a WIN - WIN situation and they won't be as mediocre as they are now

Passive IDEA :

As long as REV has shields on, he's IMMUNE to any status effects , just like the Eidolons...if he's affected by a proc when having 0 shields, as soon as he gets them back up the procs will be cleansed..

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I bought the bundle and after the major nerf, would like a refund on the plat wasted. Its like I buy a car and you took the tires and engine away after I paid. The frame is extremely useless in higher levels and just a hindrance overall. Please fix this trash you created or please refund me for the plat you scammed away. Thanks DE.

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24 minutes ago, KamikazeJester said:

I bought the bundle and after the major nerf, would like a refund on the plat wasted. Its like I buy a car and you took the tires and engine away after I paid. The frame is extremely useless in higher levels and just a hindrance overall. Please fix this trash you created or please refund me for the plat you scammed away. Thanks DE.

they buffed enthrall and increased the energy drain on DM so people cant stay in it and all of a sudden hes useless? you could have also waited knowing new warframes always get tweaks. khora should have tought you this. DE owes you nothing.

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After basically maining him for the entire time that this hotfix has rolled out.

He is still far more useful than wukong.

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First of all forgive my English, use the google translator.

Regarding the change of the Danse Macabre skill, which has seen an increase in its energy cost per second:

I think it would be a better option to have an alternative change like the one Ember suffered, in which after a few seconds of maintaining the active ability it sees an increase in damage and energy cost per second and a reduction in range.

Or perhaps, if possible, a similar implementation but a little more complex; if Revenant does not move while using Danse Macabre, it will increase by % (which will not return to 0 unless the ability is disabled), if it reaches 100%, the energy cost per second will be considerably increased. This means that if I stay still I can reach 30%, start moving, stay still again and that this 30% reaches 60% and so on until I reach 100% where I will have to consider whether to reactivate the ability or not.

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37 minutes ago, Lobozel said:

First of all forgive my English, use the google translator.

Regarding the change of the Danse Macabre skill, which has seen an increase in its energy cost per second:

I think it would be a better option to have an alternative change like the one Ember suffered, in which after a few seconds of maintaining the active ability it sees an increase in damage and energy cost per second and a reduction in range.

Or perhaps, if possible, a similar implementation but a little more complex; if Revenant does not move while using Danse Macabre, it will increase by % (which will not return to 0 unless the ability is disabled), if it reaches 100%, the energy cost per second will be considerably increased. This means that if I stay still I can reach 30%, start moving, stay still again and that this 30% reaches 60% and so on until I reach 100% where I will have to consider whether to reactivate the ability or not.

there is a huge difference between world on fire and danse macabre.

while using WoF you can use other skills and have full mobility.

while using DM mobility is limited to jogging speed (no parkour)  and ability 1 and 2 are disabled.

the increase cost is fine. people want an excuse to turn an ability on and leave it on and DE will have none of that as they shouldnt. it promotes afk gameplay.

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Hey guys,hope you are still reading the feedback.I rushed all his parts and built him quickly;this is what I have to say:

1:the ability seeems so underwhelming because of the AI and the fact that it is useless on low levels enemies(allies can easily kill it)

-make the Ai attack more often and/or give the thralls attack buffs like increased damage/fire rate(scaling with power strength) and/or make them invulnerable to ally fire

2:mesmer skin seems ok,not good,not bad,just ok.my only problem is that the charges go too quickly from high fire rate enemies;

-give more charges 

3:reave was just underwhelming for me,to be specific I thought it would restore more health and shield(the distance is ok imo)

-give more health/shield restore per enemy

4:dance macabre is one of my favourite abilities,it gives me a godlike feeling,but I have some comments to make:the lasers don't hit some enemies which are even half a meter high and the ability loses all of it's uses in high level content

-give the lasers height that scales with power range

-give it more scaling damage to compensate for the energy nerf

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Regarding this topic I was a little bit too lazy to go through all of the 50 pages to see if anyone tried this so bear with me.

I don't know if anyone noticed but it took me a while to notice as well but Revenant's 4th ability the Dance Macabre COULD kill the vomvalysts. Don't know if it was suppose to do that or not but it's only logical that it does cause his ability damage adapts based on enemy defenses and if you have a certain amount of ability strength it should insta kill them cause you can actually one shot the vomvalyst with your AMP sometimes. Altough I haven't researched how the AMP can one shot the vomvalysts but I've seen it for myself in the plains. And now for some reason after the last hotfix it doesn't work anymore. I tried like only 130% strength and max strength builds and it just makes the vomvalysts go into their ghost form so you need to go to your operator form and finish them like that. And nothing was specified in the hotfixes that it was fixed. 

P.S. I'm a newer player so pls don't be harsh on me if I said something wrong.

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2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

they buffed enthrall and increased the energy drain on DM so people cant stay in it and all of a sudden hes useless? you could have also waited knowing new warframes always get tweaks. khora should have tought you this. DE owes you nothing.

Instead of 4 useless guys who die instantly in allied fire i now have 7, great improvement. Also instead of one already costy but acceptable ability, we now have one what simply doesnt justify the energy costs.

 

Today i was in a team of randoms hunting for prime stuff in a corpus defense. I used a Banshee prime with a balanced sonar centered build what doesnt use the augment for soundquake. In the run i constantly used both sonar and then soundquake to finish off enemies, my soundquake is capatable of dealing 308 damage every sec across 38 meters for 5 energy per sec drain.

In my team we had a revenant constantly doing its spin attack and yet i had more than 100 kills always and atleast 5% more damage than him as a "top player" in the scoreboard.

You know what that means? Somehow 1250 damage/sec across 50 meters is weaker than 308 damage/sec across 38 meters. Im gonna say that revenant is the first mastery fodder frame ever created.

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2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Instead of 4 useless guys who die instantly in allied fire i now have 7, great improvement. Also instead of one already costy but acceptable ability, we now have one what simply doesnt justify the energy costs.

 

Today i was in a team of randoms hunting for prime stuff in a corpus defense. I used a Banshee prime with a balanced sonar centered build what doesnt use the augment for soundquake. In the run i constantly used both sonar and then soundquake to finish off enemies, my soundquake is capatable of dealing 308 damage every sec across 38 meters for 5 energy per sec drain.

In my team we had a revenant constantly doing its spin attack and yet i had more than 100 kills always and atleast 5% more damage than him as a "top player" in the scoreboard.

You know what that means? Somehow 1250 damage/sec across 50 meters is weaker than 308 damage/sec across 38 meters. Im gonna say that revenant is the first mastery fodder frame ever created.

you dont know what his build is. what i find hilarious about this post is you trying to compete in a team game with someone on your team. not to mention SQ is not limited by LoS where DM is limited by line of sight which you are somehow ignoring.

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3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

they buffed enthrall and increased the energy drain on DM so people cant stay in it and all of a sudden hes useless? you could have also waited knowing new warframes always get tweaks. khora should have tought you this. DE owes you nothing.

People can stay still in it if they build for more duration and efficiency right now.

Not everyone was using it like that and with it's own set of problems it was ok when compared to other dps abilities at best.

Not saying it's unsustainable or horrible now. Just that making an ok ability worse wasn't a good move without addressing all the other issues with his kit first.

As it stands they will have to change the entire ability and not make aoe attacks that require no further input in the future.

I only see this ability getting more nerfs later on with how this first set of changes ended up.

 

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1 minute ago, Madway7 said:

People can stay still in it if they build for more duration and efficiency right now.

Not everyone was using it like that and with it's own set of problems it was ok when compared to other dps abilities at best.

Not saying it's unsustainable or horrible now. Just that making an ok ability worse wasn't a good move without addressing all the other issues with his kit first.

As it stands they will have to change the entire ability and not make aoe attacks that require no further input in the future.

I only see this ability getting more nerfs later on with how this first set of changes ended up.

 

an ability that completely ignores defenses is an ok ability? thats like saying bladestorm is an "ok" ability.

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4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you dont know what his build is. what i find hilarious about this post is you trying to compete in a team game with someone on your team. not to mention SQ is not limited by LoS where DM is limited by line of sight which you are somehow ignoring.

And yet with just 308 damage per sec on a lower range i managed to "overshadow" him. On revenant theres simply no reason to go for negative strenght what means he dealt atleast 1250 damage per sec across 50 meters.

Due to me using sonar that also makes sure that he too got some nice damage bonus from hitting enemies while i only get those if the sonar spots are on the enemies knee.

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