[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

[DSMK2]

Enthrall
 "Ok" when playing solo, you can see the actual effect it has in the battlefield when using it, as other enemies stay alive long enough for you to see it spread. On multiplayer missions, it's just not worth it to use, your thralls get nuked too quickly for you to see the effect spread.

• Newly enthralled enemies need a short duration of invincibility to see the effect spread normally
• Diminishing Enthrall chance as more enemies get Enthralled.
• Enemies that die spawn a vomvalyst like energy form (see below) that will attempt to charge another enemy for a short period of time. First enemy that gets hit becomes another thrall.
  
  (Use these guys)

Mesmer Skin
The synergy with Enthrall is forced, stunned enemies are killed before you can think about using Enthrall on it. I don't get much indication that a charge of Mesmer Skin got used as well.

• Make it more Sentient themed. I'd have it so that each charge used grants you some percentage of primary damage type/status immunity for some seconds, with multiple buff icons to indicate resistance.
• Eidolon style shield loss effect when charges are used.
• Toss out the Enthrall synergy

Reave
I like how you can use this with Danse Macabre.

• Give affected enemies damage effects, like a red glow if health was predominately taken, or a blue glow if shields were predominately taken.

Dance Macabre
Nothing to say about it, it's just interesting to look at and use.

Passive
Not noticeable at all and fairly plain, I want something more drastic. On bleedout, Revenant assumes an energy form, any available Thralls will rush to Revenants aid, healing it (draining HP w/Green heal beam effect, until remaining Enthrall duration runs out). In this mode, Revenant can use a modified form of Reave to speed up this process. Revenant's physical form can be revived normally by other players. Revival brings the physical form to the energy form.

[SteelSoldier]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Honestly, I find the "vampire" theme tacked on to him to be entirely unnecessary.

 I think you are correct on your assessment, the main problem with revenant is that his kit tries to accomplish too much with very few results, perhaps simplification and overall removal of the vampire aspects of his kit would be more beneficial for him while also improving what he already possesses.

 The vast majority of the people who have commented on the topic agree that thralls are not in a good state and even if you could have more than 7 thralls, it would only influence solo play and depending on the changes it could cause problems to other players.

 So why not change enthrall? Instead of thralls dieing and creating energy pillars, how about if we could create an energy pillar in one area instead, you could summon a few of them at a time and they would turn enemies who stay inside the radius into thralls so instead of feeling frustrated with your thralls dieing and having to recast enthrall you would have something on the field making your a job a little easier, you could put the energy pillar on a specific point in order to turn enemies into thralls, there could be a limited amount of thralls you could have but it would still simplify the task of creating thralls.

 The Energy Pillar could then do damage at the end, perhaps based on the amount of enemies it enthralled for example, of course the energy pillars would have to have a larger radius than what they have now, but they don't necessarily need to look bigger, just have bigger radius.

 Mesmer Skin should be recastable when you still have charges while Reave should cast faster when you are not on dense macabre, perhaps 1-2 second damage immunity after the Reave is over would also help.

[Ranzinzo]

My suggestions:

Passive - Retaliation: When his Shield depletes, Revenant emits a radial blast that knocks down nearby enemies.

1 - Enthrall: Puts a target enemy to sleep, than enthrall all sleeping enemies in a cone. Enthralled enemies fight for Revenant,and take 90% reduced damage from Revenant's allies for the first 10 seconds. Dead thralls leave behind a ghostly energy form that refills Revenant's shields whenever he is nearby.

2 - Mesmer Skin: Revenant gains protective stacks. Whenever he is attacked by an enemy, the damage is negated, the attacker falls asleep, Revenant gains damage resistance from the highest absorbed damage and a stack is consumed.

3 - Reave: Revenant turns himself into pure sentient energy, becoming briefly immune to damage while dashing to any direction, leeching shields and health of enemies on the way. Revenant can charge the ability to increase distance and leeching amount, while also extending the invulnerability period.

4 - Danse Macabre: Revenant spins around, shooting multiple laser beams. The beams modify their damage type to target select defenses and redirect incoming damage to them. Holding primary fire boost status effects and damage at the cost of increased energy consumption. Enemies killed by Danse Macabre spawn energy pillars from the ground that damage other enemies above them. The pillars move towards Revenant, starting at a very low speed and accelerating over time. Pillars disappear when they reach Revenant.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

So despite as of yet getting Revanent I've seen read enough I can see he's good but tbh i feel there can be just a few tweaks.

1. Thralls and Entrall:

Hold casting enthrall will auto enthrall all stunned enemies from mesmer skin. If you target an enemy and hold cast that enemy is enthralled prior to stunned ones. Limit of 7 is fine.

The pool of damage effect should SWAP with Phantasm'as Alt fire option in my opinion. As ks aside from infestation the damage pool will not be all that great this will at least give more guaranteed damage from a thrall's death. Perhaps make it work like his 4 if a grineer dies it's a corrosive barrage etc. Also a deplotable fountain of damage of a gun could give Phantasma good utility.

2. Reave:

Increase non thrall enemy dashes to 15% healing. Have thralled enemies grant damage redirection similar to Nidus's  link ability with reduced effects obviously. 

 

These are my thoughts.

 

[RS219]

Hope Revenant is getting a buff this week.

I still think he should have been a tankier caster with more focus on armor and health instead of shields, and all of his skills should have been based on the destructive power of an eidolon, not this wonky vampire-wannabe set, and a passive that bleeds DoT puddles on health damage or adapting damage resistance.

[(PSN)ZeroSh0tBreaker]

Really seems the frame couldn't decide if it wanted to be a vampire or a sentient and ended up failing at both 

[Maxxor501]

Hello. I've been trying Revenant for the past few days and have been enjoying his playstyle immensly. However, I believe there are some issues to this kit that need adressing.

The biggest criticism I have to his kit is how unreliable his minion system works. The biggest issue is how easily his minions can die due to friendly fire from both you and your teammates. I know this is due to the ability that causes dead minions to spawn pillars of pure damage for a short duration. However if you build for duration (which abilities that affect minions [Enthrall, Mesmer Skin, Reave] are the only ones to benefit from. I understand the playstyle of Revenant, which is to cull enemies to moment of weakness in order to dispatch them easier. However, I find potential in the army building potential of the minion system that can allow for a strong semi-summoner build.

Hence why I suggest that a riven be made for revenant that allows for a change in how minions work. This riven would allow for flat damage resistance to be put on your minions at the price of not being able to produce energy pillars on death. This will allow for minions to last longer in a fight from both sides of the line of fire so that they can be a good defensive tool in their own right. The upgradeable stat would be the amount of damage resistance the minions receive from the mod.

 

Otherwise, I say the only thing that needs work is possibly the radius and visual cues for Revenant's passive. I rarely notice when the passive activates due to a very unnoticeable visual cue and the radius of the passive makes it so only targets within melee distance get knocked down. Which I only assume is because I knocked them down due to my melee weapons.The passive visual cue needs to be more prominent so you can better gauge when it happens and plan accordingly. Perhaps and audio queue that passively happens when you get closer to your shields depleting, with the actual depletion effect being something similar to Rhino's passive or the one mod that simulates it's passive. Increasing the range of Revenant's knockdown would help as well. Possibly at most 15m (20m if you're feeling generous) to be able to knock down close to mid range targets as well. 

These are a few suggestions that I hope will help flesh out Revenant's kit. I do not want Revenant to go the way of other warframes where they have only two manageable abilities that are good for long game. Revenant's minion system should be able to take it into endgame. Not just Mesmer Skin and Dance Macabre. I hope these suggestions are palletable and will be taken into consideration to help improve Revenant's kit. Thank you for your time.

[IgnisDraconis4316]

I don't know if this is a bug or not but.....

I was in Sanctuary Onslaught and was fighting with me Galatine Prime. To keep my combo counter I started to attack a Thrall of the Rev in my group. I noticed that my combo counter did not go up and in fact it reset all the way to 0 because it was registering that I was hitting an ally. And so I lost a 3x multiplier because I hit a thrall which isn't an enemy but I can kill it?

My Idea is that while the thralls are "friendly" they should only be able to be damaged by friendly units and the Revenant in question. This way he can use it for his Pillars of Light and we don't get to kill them. Also PLEASE make them invulnerable to ally damage so that things like the above don't happen. They are either friendly and can't have friendly fire or they are still registering as enemies and can be damaged. Don't make it both it makes wierd situations where some things work and others don't.

If you made them Invulnerable to allies but made them vulnerable to enemy units and the Revenant then it will definitely help his kit. because when you need to use his Reave you would be able to get the health back in a "OH CRAP!!!" moment. Right now as it stands you turn around and you need health and your friends just wiped out all your health and shield regen thralls.

His Enthrall I feel is perfect if it also made them not take Friendly fire.

His Mesmer Skin I feel needs to reliably reflect damage some times you get shot several times and nothing happens. You don't even lose a stack.

His Retaliation passive i feel could do one of two things. IF you have no thralls and your shields went down then enemies around you (up to the cap of 7 would be enthralled). If not that then make it like the Eidolons when they stomp their feet. a Knockdown and Knockback/Ragdoll that does damage per the amount of shields and overshields the Rev has. For example if you have a ton of overshields and a bombard takes it all out in one shot he should get hit hard but if Rev just has 100 shields then its a useless Knockdown and Ragdoll/Knockback.

[Aeon94]

Another Enthrall idea came to my mind.

Enthrall -

Revenant summons a bloom on targeted location ( like Hydrolyst does ) for 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 seconds and has 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 meters radius.

Bloom links and turns closest 6 / 7 / 8 / 10 enemies into thralls. Enemies will be enthralled for 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds . If a thrall dies , another enemy in bloom's radius will take its place.

Thralls also take 90% less damage from teammates.

* This new ability can fix Enthrall's spread issue ( cuz of dumb AI ) and help Revenant by making Enthrall more of an automated process. So he can benefit more from his thralls while using Danse Macabre.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Aeon94

[DefectiveMagus]

i just hope we can all bring enough attention to Revenant so at least they do something to him. Cause so far 2018 has not had that many frames, if good at all.

So i am hoping that we can get Rev to be a possible frame for somebody to main, rather than mastery fodder as it currently is.

And frames released in 2018 are: khora (20.4.), excal umbra (15.6.) and now rev (24.8.). Not counting prime frames.

[CarminO2]

So.. yeah. I built revenant 1 day ago. and honestly, this could be a lot better. 

Passive is just.. weird.It's range is too short, makes it's kinda meaningless. Perhaps create a overshield when thralls are nearby? 

 

1st ablity's idea is ok. BUT there are something to be changed. Thrall should be more helpful to squadmates. It's so useless. The only thing it does is that enemies can become your allies. That's all. Maybe thralls can be more contagious, like up to 20 or higher, or deals additional damage to nearby enemies. 

 

 

2nd ablity looks ok, it reflects and disables enemies. But honestly, i don't like this. The mechanism is fine, but since revenant is a warframe that hurts a lot, it's 12 reflects are meaningless. It could be a timed ablity (like for 15sec, you can be invulnerable) or gets a additional reflects by getting damage (like a iron skin or snow glove, the damage you've got becomes reflects). 

 

 

3rd ablity is not good. It's too similar to tidal surge or slash dash. This could be like toggle ablity like wukong's cloud walker (slowly, but contiuously) or makes a field of mist that leech and heals allies that is inside (like ravenous)

 

4th ablity. This is very controversial. Someone says it's ok. But, to specific factions (infested, corpus, orokin) it deals way less damage. And  it looks more like batalyst, not eidolons. It could be changed to a toggle ablity that has a 3 modes which has a star fall from teralyst, energy pillar from gantulyst, and acid rain from hydrolyst. Star fall deals a mid- high dmg to all areas in range, energy pillar deals high damage to nearby enemies in specific spot. And acid rain deals mid-low damage to all area and has a larger range than other modes.

Generally, a not bad warframe to mid-low tiers, but just like any warframes that has been added to warframe recently (khora, gara), it's so useless to high tiers (sortie 3, elite onslaught, etc.) It definitely needs rework as soon as possible. 

 

 

[EinheriarJudith]

23 minutes ago, AoBaka said:

i just hope we can all bring enough attention to Revenant so at least they do something to him. Cause so far 2018 has not had that many frames, if good at all.

So i am hoping that we can get Rev to be a possible frame for somebody to main, rather than mastery fodder as it currently is.

And frames released in 2018 are: khora (20.4.), excal umbra (15.6.) and now rev (24.8.). Not counting prime frames.

opinions arent facts. he isnt MR fodder. and he was released  12 days ago. and has had some changes already made. DE has already said they are going to make more changes and are watching feedback. sorry it isnt instantaneous for your liking.

[LAWD]

My advise would be to get Revenant first then play him.

10 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Hold casting enthrall will auto enthrall all stunned enemies from mesmer skin. If you target an enemy and hold cast that enemy is enthralled prior to stunned ones. Limit of 7 is fine.

while Mesmer skin is active, enemies who attack and are put to sleep, can be enthralled with no energy cost, this idea won't really do since casting enthrall on affected enemy won't even take that long. 

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Have thralled enemies grant damage redirection similar to Nidus's  link ability with reduced effects obviously. 

I'd rather not have this, as some Thralls like ancient healers will be actually beneficial to you and allies. This would also seem like Nekros's Shield of Shadows. The problem is allies don't care and kill everything. Plus he has mesmer Skin

everything else is just to balance him out.

[Madway7]

15 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

opinions arent facts. he isnt MR fodder. and he was released  12 days ago. and has had some changes already made. DE has already said they are going to make more changes and are watching feedback. sorry it isnt instantaneous for your liking.

They didn't say that what they said was a fact, they're just expressing what they feel.

So it's just an opinion to counter an opinion here.

[EinheriarJudith]

8 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

They didn't say that what they said was a fact, they're just expressing what they feel.

So it's just an opinion to counter an opinion here.

if you had read his post. he "wants attention brought to rev" even though DE already said they are monitoring feedback on him. then proceeds to assume people arent maining him already. he wasnt just speaking for himself, if he was he would have used the proper context and he didnt.

Edited September 4, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Madway7]

33 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you had read his post. he "wants attention brought to rev" even though DE already said they are monitoring feedback on him. then proceeds to assume people arent maining him already. he wasnt just speaking for himself, if he was he would have used the proper context and he didnt.

I guess so, though the "MR fodder" part seems like an opinion on both sides.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

36 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you had read his post. he "wants attention brought to rev" even though DE already said they are monitoring feedback on him. then proceeds to assume people arent maining him already. he wasnt just speaking for himself, if he was he would have used the proper context and he didnt.

I think we can ALL agree that this frame anecdotally feels more controversial in terms of forum topics and community conversation around said frame.

I for one have been watching DE social media, and if I didn't know better, it would be easy to *think nothing was being done to address community feedback and concerns.

When you know the process and where to look, it can be an easy mental transaction to discount another person's unfamiliarity or lack of knowledge as something more than that it really is.

[operational]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Umbras great.

and they will NEVER are release excal prime. He’s founders exclusive and should remain as such.

 

I said if they just make Umbra excatly like Prime whats the point? I was expecting more than just a specter.

[operational]

16 hours ago, xcenic said:

People Hype about the Garuda frame, and im just here waiting for another disaster.

Wait for 2019, the year of reworks.

2018 = better for weapons than warframes, more content to explore, more mission types. Its not bad but if they make a schedule of releasing warframes so bad why not just wait for more polishment? 

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, operational said:

I said if they just make Umbra excatly like Prime whats the point? I was expecting more than just a specter.

an upgraded excalibur that is strong against sentients? thats what we got. excaliber was the only frame that needed an upgraded version of some kind but couldnt get one because of the exclusive excal prime. what exactly were you expecting?

[Airgetfrog]

Thoughts on the current discussion climate: lots of people are proposing that Enthrall be changed so Thralls are immune to ally (and sometimes even user) damage, but I feel there are some issues with that that most leave unaddressed. 

Firstly, there are basically two types of temporary minion in the game: ones that disappear when duration ends (Inaros, Nekros) and ones that turn back into enemies (Nyx, Nidus). Currently, the first type is always an ally, while the latter type always counts as an enemy for objective purposes (which opens them up for abuse in many scenarios such as Defense). However this seems like a necessary evil as there is an underlying assumption that fully allied objects do not ever turn hostile, and so since these enemies are allies only for a duration they cannot completely be considered allied. Whether this is design-only or relevant to the code as well (perhaps in some Quest that assumes all enemies are gone) I do not know, but I feel like it shouldn't be violated without real thought and reason behind it. For Thralls then, making them the first type is problematic because they are only temporarily allied and would violate the above assumption, but making them the second type introduces yet another frame that can grief other players, neither of which are strictly desirable (again, without further thought/justification put into it).

A second issue is the flavor: neither vampires nor Eidolons have inherent mind-control flavor. Of course Enthrall is something DE came up with themselves, but it is not strictly necessary for vampire flavor (which should be leeching like in Reave), and as pointed out many times encroaches on Nyx's territory. To preserve unique flavor then, suggestions geared towards creating a mind control fantasy like in the devstream (which making Thralls immune to ally damage is one of) then should think carefully about what makes them unique. 

One suggestion I'm quite fond of that I've seen pop up a few times seems to address these issues well is making slain Thralls create temporary 'ghosts' that function as allies for the rest of the Enthrall duration. While these are functionally still just minions (and will have gameplay overlap with Nekros/Nyx), it is safe both flavor-wise (Eidolon -> ghosts, parallel to vommies, or *-lysts and the main Eidolon body), and gameplay-wise (concrete distinction between 'temporary ally' and full ally, i.e. Enthralled enemy and ghost / mind control and shadows of the dead). Additionally it's a mechanic already basically present in the game with Ballistica Prime.

So far this seems like the most elegant way to buff Thralls while addressing the above issues, but surely it is not the only way, and I'd like to encourage everyone to take these issues into account more when giving suggestions as there are a lot of subtleties to designing this ability.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Airgetfrog

[Madway7]

@Airgetfrog Yeah I believe the "make thralls invulnerable" or "make them have DR to ally damage" will likely result in some bad unforseen consequences to gameplay.

At this point I'm just curious to see how it plays out.

[DefectiveMagus]

3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you had read his post. he "wants attention brought to rev" even though DE already said they are monitoring feedback on him. then proceeds to assume people arent maining him already. he wasnt just speaking for himself, if he was he would have used the proper context and he didnt.

I agree what i said was subjective. I know that they are monitoring feedback, i am just hoping that enough people bring enough attention to him so he can get a proper improvement. not something like "skill x now deals y more damage" cause to me and apparently mostly everybody else it seams that its not just the numbers making the frame look bad.

And i am a bit angry and disappointed that the last frame i remember that i played for a longer time and had a lot of fun with was harrow, which was around a year ago. 

Sure some people might main the rev, but to me currently, he does seam like a one trick pony. As in you just mod for his 4th or possibly for his 2nd, which to me seams like a generic defensive skill. And you just go around killing people like most of the frames do. Which is disappointing cause i feel the whole eidolon (or what the name of the race is) frame has a lot of potential for interesting gameplay. Gameplay that doesnt simply revolve around buffing the most out of the main DPS skill and just rolling with it.

So again, @EinheriarJudith my comment is subjective, but the thing is that a lot of people have their opinion on improving him, so its not just me who feels that something is wrong with the frame in the current state, and can do better.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Airgetfrog said:

~snip~

there is plenty of vampire material that suggests they are able to control peoples minds through their blood or through their eyes. there are also vampire material that supports them having thralls or as they call it ghouls which are the enslaved dead. enthral does fit the vampire theme and so does reave. mesmer skin is probably the only thing out of place in the theme as reave also mimics vomvalyst charge and DM mimics batalyst spinning laser of death.

[EinheriarJudith]

32 minutes ago, AoBaka said:

I agree what i said was subjective. I know that they are monitoring feedback, i am just hoping that enough people bring enough attention to him so he can get a proper improvement. not something like "skill x now deals y more damage" cause to me and apparently mostly everybody else it seams that its not just the numbers making the frame look bad.

And i am a bit angry and disappointed that the last frame i remember that i played for a longer time and had a lot of fun with was harrow, which was around a year ago. 

Sure some people might main the rev, but to me currently, he does seam like a one trick pony. As in you just mod for his 4th or possibly for his 2nd, which to me seams like a generic defensive skill. And you just go around killing people like most of the frames do. Which is disappointing cause i feel the whole eidolon (or what the name of the race is) frame has a lot of potential for interesting gameplay. Gameplay that doesnt simply revolve around buffing the most out of the main DPS skill and just rolling with it.

So again, @EinheriarJudith my comment is subjective, but the thing is that a lot of people have their opinion on improving him, so its not just me who feels that something is wrong with the frame in the current state, and can do better.

i am also one of those who say he could use tweaks. problem is when people get their own expectations in their head, everything be damned because it isnt what they imagined it to be. people wanted khora to have exalted weapon despite DE never saying she would. all his skills work the way they say and can be used in whatever you need them to do. how everyone feels about his gameplay mechanics will differ. not everyone is going to like whatever frame DE pushes out which is fine. they have plenty of options.

Edited September 4, 2018 by EinheriarJudith