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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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I still like Revenant after the tweak.  I appreciate upping the Thrall max cap, and I feel like they work just fine as is.  

I wouldn’t want Rev to be just like Nyx or Nekros in that regard, otherwise I’d would just play those frames.  

I appreciate that Rev feels different.

Just spin it to win it. 

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The more I play him the more I am interested in the thralls instead of spin to win.

Only thing is the pillar of fire just doesn't really help much. Much like Oberon and his damage fields that enemies walk through in 0.1s. The damage on these abilities just sucks.

 

Fire pillar being swapped out for an energy explosion would be much more useful. Or if we have the fire pillars they should cover a much larger area, say 3m instead of 2m. Would mean nearly 10m if built for range, which would be very useful. 

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9 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

The more I play him the more I am interested in the thralls instead of spin to win.

Only thing is the pillar of fire just doesn't really help much. Much like Oberon and his damage fields that enemies walk through in 0.1s. The damage on these abilities just sucks.

 

Fire pillar being swapped out for an energy explosion would be much more useful. Or if we have the fire pillars they should cover a much larger area, say 3m instead of 2m. Would mean nearly 10m if built for range, which would be very useful. 

Off-topic side-note: Once I started using Oberon's Augment for his "pasture" (hallowed ground) - his 2 became a very powerful AOE DPS - I rebuilt him completely and now he's a high DPS tanky DPS frame that -can- offer support/healer roles. Check it out if you want - it's pretty cool and makes him a lot more fun to play. I could see some kind of change or augment for Revenant's "enthrall" (regardless of form) that would allow you to detonate all your minions for a similar result.

I enjoy the death pillars aspect of enthrall, but would rather see thrall replaced completely with the eidolon pets suggestion mentioned above. It negates all the complaints about friendly-fire immunity and could properly synergize as thralls do now (Reave through them to heal, kill them w/ your 4 for overshields, etc) - they could still explode as you suggest or drop pillars but also adds more meat and works better with a duration based ability with a "minion cap". The more I read that concept in this thread the more I feel like this would be a great change for him that could also make the community happy. Aside from that, seeing how those little floating heads mess up grineer on the plains at night, I think it would be a much better choice.

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il y a une heure, nokturnihs a dit :

I'm not Digital Extremes nor have I suggested I was. There are many frames in this game that need attention and yes, Revenant is one of them.

Making comparisons to Harrow and Revenant and how both possess team-related issues is on-topic as a relevant comparison. It's not being "a jealous kid" - it was just a comparison and a statement of my low expectations of what will happen based on history. 

Complaining about micromanagement or underfunctioning death pillars is irrelevant as you have a choice in the matter. Don't build for enthrall if you don't want to micromanage or make use of the pillars.

I am not the only one setting my expectations low about DE making changes without exchanging your desired changes for something else in his kit isn't exactly a new opinion. 

Throwing personal insults my way because I dare criticize "the majority" desires? That's just useless and makes future feedback more problematic and less effective for everyone. 

If you can't present a counterpoint without "throwing stones" then one could interpret the foundation of your argument isn't capable of standing on it's own merits. That, and these kinds of responses to general feedback are what perfectly frame the worst kinds of online communities - unwelcoming and closed to suggestions,  questions and opinions from outsiders.

Thing is I also explained why pillars are useless. It's not an opinion but a fact. 
 

"Complaining about micromanagement or underfunctioning death pillars is irrelevant as you have a choice in the matter. Don't build for enthrall if you don't want to micromanage or make use of the pillars."
This is not even a counter argument, you are saying yourself that they require micromanagement yet this is a horde shooter game where the majority of the damage is caused by weaponry, AoEs and a bit by your frame abilities (excluding some abilities that can simply nuke whole lvls). Any ability that requires micromanagement/big setup with no significant gain is simply not worth using and needs to be fixed/buffed. That's like there's a bad hero/character in a MOBA and you tell the community asking for him/her to be buffed that they could instead simply not play said hero/character, it's their "choice". Ridiculous "counter argument" that brings nothing to the discussion. What's the point in having a certain ability/character available if barely anybody uses it as there are obvious greater/better (objectively speaking) options. You can't "build for enthrall" lol. You build so all his abilities are better. 

 

"Throwing personal insults my way because I dare criticize "the majority" desires? That's just useless and makes future feedback more problematic and less effective for everyone."
Playing the victim card cuz i said "simple" yeh? Overeacting much. 

 

"If you can't present a counterpoint without "throwing stones" then one could interpret the foundation of your argument isn't capable of standing on it's own merits."
Are you blind? Because I indeed gave you a counter argument, you just decided to ignore it and became self righteous. Go read the rest of my second paragraph you quoted. And now, if you tell me "hurr durr micromanagement is fine even if you get puny damage out (I tested with over 200% str, still garbage damage) of it and only land it on a handful of enemies in the best scenarios of a HORDE SHOOTER game" then sadly there's not much anybody could discuss with you. Micromanagement = slowing the game's pace down which goes AGAINST what the devs stated multiple times that they want which is fast pace and fluid gameplay. 

 

"That, and these kinds of responses to general feedback are what perfectly frame the worst kinds of online communities - unwelcoming and closed to suggestions,  questions and opinions from outsiders."
Your post wasn't constructive at all and basically said "DE is never going to do that, just suck it up boiis, Harrow never got the love he needed so you/Rev will not get much either". If, on the other hand, you would have said "I highly believe that DE will not do that because XYZ", it would have been a different discussion we would be having. I believe you take things way too personnal and are being melodramatic just because I said you are "simple" for being happy with a crap ability.

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So random buff suggestion. So I'm pretty sure it's too late to add ideas for the next patch, kinda wanted to wait for that rather than make suggestions now since idk if they'll make a lot of changes to his 1 or not.

But how about the pillars spawn on cast of his 1 rather than on enemy death and give pillars the same adaptive damage.

I had other ideas such as pillars pull enemies into them or on death of a thrall it spawns pillars on the location of all enemies within x meters. But I'm not sure if those would work well.

As it stands most of the time enemies don't get hit by them much in open areas and even if you use them at chokepoints they are very eh, good at lower levels but you can just blast your 4 there and get way more done out of it.

Mainly give the pillars the adaptive damage. 

Also consider changing it to heat for flesh instead of gas. I'm guessing this is the case atm because heat might stunlock groups of enemies? But with the increased energy cost and given how infested have ways of negating toxin damage I feel like this would just work much better. 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, VieuxPappy said:

Thing is I also explained why pillars are useless. It's not an opinion but a fact. 
 

"Complaining about micromanagement or underfunctioning death pillars is irrelevant as you have a choice in the matter. Don't build for enthrall if you don't want to micromanage or make use of the pillars."
This is not even a counter argument, you are saying yourself that they require micromanagement yet this is a horde shooter game where the majority of the damage is caused by weaponry, AoEs and a bit by your frame abilities (excluding some abilities that can simply nuke whole lvls). Any ability that requires micromanagement/big setup with no significant gain is simply not worth using and needs to be fixed/buffed. That's like there's a bad hero/character in a MOBA and you tell the community asking for him/her to be buffed that they could instead simply not play said hero/character, it's their "choice". Ridiculous "counter argument" that brings nothing to the discussion. What's the point in having a certain ability/character available if barely anybody uses it as there are obvious greater/better (objectively speaking) options. You can't "build for enthrall" lol. You build so all his abilities are better. 

 

"Throwing personal insults my way because I dare criticize "the majority" desires? That's just useless and makes future feedback more problematic and less effective for everyone."
Playing the victim card cuz i said "simple" yeh? Overeacting much. 

 

"If you can't present a counterpoint without "throwing stones" then one could interpret the foundation of your argument isn't capable of standing on it's own merits."
Are you blind? Because I indeed gave you a counter argument, you just decided to ignore it and became self righteous. Go read the rest of my second paragraph you quoted. And now, if you tell me "hurr durr micromanagement is fine even if you get puny damage out (I tested with over 200% str, still garbage damage) of it and only land it on a handful of enemies in the best scenarios of a HORSE SHOOTER game" then sadly there's not much anybody could discuss with you. Micromanagement = slowing the game's pace down which goes AGAINST what the devs stated multiple times that they want which is fast pace and fluid gameplay. 

 

"That, and these kinds of responses to general feedback are what perfectly frame the worst kinds of online communities - unwelcoming and closed to suggestions,  questions and opinions from outsiders."
Your post wasn't constructive at all and basically said "DE is never going to do that, just suck it up boiis, Harrow never got the love he needed so you/Rev will not get much either". If, on the other hand, you would have said "I highly believe that DE will not do that because XYZ", it would have been a different discussion we would be having. If I can give you a tip, you take things way too personnal and are being melodramatic just because I said you are "simple" for being happy with a crap ability.

I already edited my feedback throughout the entire thread. You are right I'm incredibly sensitive about being questioned for my intelligence because of my past, the disabilities I've overcome and the fact that my livelihood is made because of my intelligence and capabilities as an IT professional and Developer. I was being melodramatic and off topic. 

I have done my own testing and had differing results but we were obviously playing with different builds, play styles and things like Arcanes that obviously changed those outcomes. I built him more around his 2 with guardian derision and arcane guardian and grace and it quite effectively for CC. 

I  have edited the reply you quoted to try and worked to resolve my failings in the topic thread. I do admit that I was insulted by your tone because it frankly wasn't helpful and was rude. I don't understand why it was necessary or what prompted you to believe it would produce any kind of merit to the feedback thread or my response. I had edited my feedback BEFORE your reply so please don't assume your latest response had anything to do with that.

I'm going to work to be more effective at providing on-topic useful feedback to the developers and stop inappropriately directing my commentary to the community.

I will also append that the initial thread you replied to, where your tone upset me was due to similar insults from a previous user and my feedback was colored badly and soured by my outrage, thus I removed it. 

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Been playing Revenant ever since the nerf, and even after the Thrall increase and Danse nerf, I'm still just using my 2 and 4. Thralls just don't do anything because of all the other things I've mentioned before (Teammates killing them, the damage being garbage, the AI sucking). Tidal Surg~ I mean "Reave" also does nothing. Not as an escape tool, a movement tool, or even as a way to self-heal (Because again, Thralls are garbage).

 

And as for Danse Macabre itself, I'm no longer boosting the ability because of the drain. And since I'm not using Thralls, I'm not dropping any Overshield orbs, but even if I was, 50 Overshield is pathetic when compared to the cost/return of this ability. I've said my peace about shields in general being garbage, so I won't repeat my grievances here, but 50 Overshield isn't worth me spending 25 for Enthrall, 25 for the cast of Danse, then 20 a second to pick up such little value. Even if I I got 7 Thralls from Mesmer Skin, that's still 50 for it, 25 for Danse, 20 a second, for a total of 350 Overshields if I'm being greedy, or 100 Overshields if I'm being nice and splitting the drops with the team.

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I've played around with Rev a bit and I've come got some ideas. Lore-wise he looks like a warframe designed to be a sentient, not "ravaged by sentient energy". I get vibes that originally Rev was something like a 'spirit shaman' with his abilities inverted by sentient energy. I want to like this frame but his purpose is torn between dps, tank, and cc. Going through his abilities one-by-one:

Retaliation

Complete rip off from Nova's passive. I'm thinking of something that occurs when at full energy, such as percentage damage resist. (Open to ideas, mine seems a bit powerful for a passive.)

 

Enthrall

Should be his bread and butter. Biggest issue I feel is that Thralls are killable by players and that there's a bit much packed into the first ability. If you do manage to enthrall, AI kicks in and has trouble converting others (in my experience at least). An idea that I had for an adjustment is to replace the pillar with a ghost that can be killed by enemies. (Said ghost would be able to convert but has some resistance to enemy attacks. Haven't decided if ghost would count toward thrall counter or a separate counter with lower max. Ghost would be based on duration.)

 

Mesmer Skin

Mesmer is fairly okay as is. This is the point where Rev can't decide if he's a tank or not. Charges and a slow cast animation is annoying, especially when grouped up on. Free enthrall is completely useless considering the ability itself. My recommended change would be to change charges into a duration that reduces damage taken by a percentage. As for stunning enemies for a free enthrall, make it occur on a health gate or even lethal damage. Appearance wise, less fog: it's annoying and doesn't match the quality of it's surroundings.

 

Reave

Lemme go pull it out of the trash so I can have a better look at it. The duration doesn't get you anywhere near enemies, considering the enemy is still there after the cast animation. Shield and health restoring part of the ability is non-existent if you manage to actually hit someone. My recommended change: Make it like Limbo's original Rift Walk ability. I envision it as Rev puts his weapons away and enters a energy state, he can still be harmed but absorbs the life-force of his enemies to restore shields (or health if shields are full). Or make it a once per enemy restore. Anything would be better than it is now. (Don't make me regret saying that)

 

Danse Macabre

It's a powerful and fun ability. No major changes needed, would very much like some form of aim for those pesky enemies that find a 'blind spot' in the lasers.

 

Those are my thoughts for the time being.

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General info:

  • Reduce shields to 450 (fully leveled Revenant)
  • Increase armor to 350

Makes his passive a tad bit more frequent and the armor buff is so that Revenant doesn't instantly die when he loses his shields.

 

First ability: 

  • Imbues an enemy target with sentient energy forcing them to attack allies, when killed the target releases half of it's health as damage to surrounding allies as radiation damage.
  • Damage can not be amped up at all
  • Range of radiation damage when killed affected by power range
  • Target is affected for a duration of five seconds that can be increased by duration.
  • Multiple targets can be affected at once. Caps at 7.

Pillars suck.

 

Second ability:

  • Envelops Revenant in sentient coating that has a set health, the coat adapts to the damage it's revived the most.
  • Coat health scales with armor and power strength

I saw a dude who suggested the idea of adaptive Mesmer skin and I thought it was pretty cool. Forgot who he was though which sucks.

 

Third ability: 

  • Summons 4/4/8/8 vomvalyst clones that bolster ally armor and shield while boosting Revenant's health and armor. Vomvalyst seek out enemies to attack.
  • Cannot summon extra vomvalysts with the help of mods or buffs
  • Duration of 12 seconds that can be increased with mods
  • Two vomvalyst always surround allies

Reave. More like no

 

Forth ability:

  • Cool but reduce the energy cost back to 12 or let it scale of mods from primaries, secondaries, make it an exalted gun arm like mimics and battlysts, whatever.

 

So yeah there's my Revenant rework no one cares about.

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2 hours ago, Madway7 said:

 

Also consider changing it to heat for flesh instead of gas. I'm guessing this is the case atm because heat might stunlock groups of enemies? But with the increased energy cost and given how infested have ways of negating toxin damage I feel like this would just work much better. 

 

 

I would actually consider having them change it to viral rather than heat. Enemies won't be stun-locked and the ability should scale better into the late-game. It would also kind of follow suit of what the ability does to the other factions with corrosive damage for the Grineer and magnetic damage for the Corpus.

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58 minutes ago, CharcoalNuggets said:

I would actually consider having them change it to viral rather than heat. Enemies won't be stun-locked and the ability should scale better into the late-game. It would also kind of follow suit of what the ability does to the other factions with corrosive damage for the Grineer and magnetic damage for the Corpus.

That would work much better actually.

Atm it's not really faction based, it's health type based. Armor = corrosive, shield = magnetic, flesh/robotic health = gas

It's a big distinction because some corpus units have armor and infested can also sometimes (albeit rarely) get armor too. Though outside of the Rathuum enemies grineer don't have shields (also grineer capture targets, but they ignore the ability so it doesnt matter).

Also the Corrupted is a mixed bag of all the factions (minus sentient) and has all 3 health types among its units.

But anyways, yeah, viral would be great.

 

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I have new (unsolicited) ideas!

Mesmer Skin: Rather than the "I want to be functionally invincible for (time)x(#charges)" make it so each enemy can only make you use 1 charge per daze period. This way, the big complaints about burst weapons, and my particular problem with Hyekka Masters, are effectively null. Damage is still redirected, so burst fire damages the enemy for all shots in the burst while they're dazed, and if a Hyekka Master gets dazed by you walking in their fire, they take subsequent damage from their own fire while dazed. 

Some people have requested status immunity, but I think it should just redirect the damage from damaging statuses instead, so slash, fire, toxin, gas, electric, etc. procs damage their sources, while you still take full effect from non-damaging procs like radiation, just so you don't get too complacent.

Reave: I still think it needs to feel faster, but that's old news. Since enemy (E)HP scales so high, eventually you waste a lot of the health and/or shields you may have gained, so how about converting overflow health to shields, overflow shields to overshields, and if you cap on both, the remainder goes towards refunding the energy cost of Reave? My current thinking of the most practical conversion is that the % of health/shields wasted equates to the same % of Reaves cost refunded.

Danse Macabre: Okay, so this is the biggest change, and therefore least likely to be adopted (it being post-release and all) but since the previous changes to his 4 already put the frame into a polarizing position of  "not worth using" vs. "still one trick pony" I thought I'd put forward an alternative. Might need a new name, but how about 4 is now like the Eidolon's S.O.S. scream, and summons Revenant's thralls to him, while having an aura that lifedrains thralls while proccing status on enemies (Eidolons do Magnetic, but that's near worthless against AI, so I was thinking Radiation). It could still be channeled, or it could be duration based, with the aura being constant or in pulses (which could look like the ones that the eidolons emit after their synovias break). As unlikely as this change may be at this time, it captures both Eidolon and vampire themes, and works well with Revenant's other abilities.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

IMHO, at the end of the day, you need to have a frame that the majority of the community is "sold" on to drive interest in farming AND in-game purchase of the frame because it has a clear-cut use/role.

Thinking ahead of Garuda, it's really important to me as a consumer (both in $$$ and time) that something I "invest" in—even for enjoyment—offers a viable return.  It would really suck, if Garuda surpassed Revenant by some considerable standard or metric despite alleged co-development—they should both be "good".

With all the great media attention this game has gotten in the past year (really starting with PoE), I feel it's in DE's best interest to ensure Revenant and every subsequent frame (including Primes) has *true worth.

*Viability across all content and the meta-endgame-that-really-isn't-true-endgame content.

whats garuda? 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)IStudioGhibliI said:

whats garuda? 

The next Warframe that’s getting worked on by Pablo. With her, she suppose to be Similar to Valkyr but in a more Cold, Gore -y way.

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To start off with, Revenant works just fine even though he's not a top-class frame everyone is going to want to run.  He's got a weird power curve in scaling content because his thralls get harder and harder to kill as time goes on for a non-scaling return but he's fully capable of reaching the D rotation in any endless content just fine (though typically he's slow on the Affinity and XP cpmpared to all of the other frames).  I guess that's his big drawback - as a pet themed frame he's slow as pet themed frames usually are.  This is compounded in any mobile mission as the ground-based AoE damage gets left behind as do thralls on occasion.  This presents a few problems but Revenant is hardly "bad".  I think the main problem is people want more pets to hang around and do damage by attacking when damage is already catered for in another way.  It is far more effective, and economical, to constantly kill your thralls as they are created for AoE damage while leaving enough standing to spread and create new thralls.  From what I've seen most people try taking the hard-hitting enemies to deal damage rather than hold onto the fast-attacking ones to spread more rapidly so there's more to kill for more AoE damage.

They see more thralls attacking as the gateway to kill more quickly instead.  In the end Revenant is not a Pet class, it's an AoE damage class.  I imagine in time this idea will get around.

The other thing I don't see is people using pets for utility.  Enthralling enemies in Vauban's Vortex, and similar skills, and then killing them makes these skills quite powerful.  Likewise enthralling enemies about to die in Octavia's Mallet creates a swarm of AoE damage that bolsters her AoE.  Enthralling a Melee target makes them a guided missile to detonate when it reaches it's target.  Taking Corpus drones for shield replenishment can make you quite tough if you can get enough of them.  You can enthrall Eximus for their shield bubble for the same reason.  Even enthralling grineer troops near their turrets so they hop in.  It's often not a lot of damage against enemies but it does stop an enemy from shooting at you with it.  Like any other CC you can also enthrall things like Bursas, Nox and so on to make them easier to kill.  Enthrall is a utility skill as much as it is a damage skill. 

Solo he's completely capable if somewhat slow.  The largest problem is that in team content every one of your skills suffer.  Thralls die quickly unless you go off by yourself (definitely not the point of a team) and Mesmer Skin becomes a bit pointless because you're one of up to 15 targets (4 players, 4 kubrows/kavats, 7 thralls, not including possible Spectres) meaning you don't take many shots.  A lot of the stunned targets suffer the same fate as Thralls and get mowed down instantly.  If you want thralls they're rarely free, you need to chain cast and it's only for the persistent AoE damage.  In this case you need duration for Enthrall AoE damage which makes Reave incredibly unweildy, often ending up in a place where you lose most of the shields and health gained if you aren't careful.  Danse Macabre got a huge energy cost increase "to stop AFK gameplay" meaning Revenant is now a very power hungry warframe.

The end result is usually quite unrewarding.  If you're in solo content you're left with the nagging thought that you could do it a lot more effectively with something else being not only "quicker"; remembering that quicker not only means faster overall but also usually more kills so more affinity and more loot.   In team play, unless you want to just spam Danse Macabre, you're often at the bottom of the kills/damage stats the game gives you at the end of every match.

A lot of people have commented that he feels "rushed" and I personally don't feel that's the case.  I find him an overly convoluted frame that feels really artificial in it's synergies and a bit broken in team play because it's internal synergies all revolve around thralls; I'd more describe Revenant as "forced" rather than "rushed".

The "gameplay problems" I found is that all of his skills require being near the enemy to use but he's got a "glass cannon" stat setup and his defensive skills often don't matter - either the content level doesn't need them or they just aren't big enough to make a difference.  His overshields could be built up over time but because you're always near the enemy they just don't seem to in any content challenging enough to be worth using Thralls.  Having thralls destroyed unintentionally also isn't limited to team play as any decently modded Sentinel/Kubrow/Kavat can destroy thralls in the crossfire.

Here's the main issue as I see it:  Players are intensely overpowered in Warframe.  So overpowered in every given situation (because there's a frame or gun to solve every problem players might encounter) that the only way the game can "reward" players in general play (ie:  not boss farming for a new frame or weapon or putting the forma on and gathering mods for that new frame/weapon) is through the stats chart at the end of the mission.  Who did the most damage and who got the most kills in a game of keeping up with the Jonses with other players.  Support frames, as a result, often aren't all that rewarding in general play as what they tend to do is make power-frames better at dealing damage to top those charts.  Revenant is a particularly unrewarding frame to play.  It's never going to top those charts in a fair fight against many commonly used frames and it has no team-related buff to share that is globally useful so a player can feel like they are sharing in the glory of the top damage or the reward of being the one keeping team-mates on their feet in spite of incoming damage or able to get downed team-mates back onto their feet by weathering a hail of enemy fire.

There's not a lot to "fix" with him to be honest, he's always going to be one of the redheaded stepchildren in Warframe because of his slow structure and lack of "glory" but he can be bolstered up a bit.

  • Halve the cast time on Enthrall and Mesmer Skin to put that time back into gunplay/beating on things with Melee.
  • Give Thralls a 7 second invulnerability after being created (not all positive but will help Revenant out in team-based gameplay to get a few more free thralls in a reliable way).
  • Make the amount of damage from destroyed thralls scale with content:  X + a bonus based on the health of the enemy. 

These couple of things would help a couple of major issues reported by players using Revenant and at least help him climb the damage/kills charts a little.

The one thing that worries me is that Revenant does much better in tight quarters but Corpus tilesets are about to open up large enough to make Zephyr more viable and include Parkour.  I rather doubt this is going to be good for Revenant either with thralls or opportunities to use Danse Macabre and probably negatively impact Reave, that latter two having issues with verticality in many any existing rooms.  Thralls also suffer from some iffy AI on existing Neptune open frozen spaces and the distance they can be dragged away in fights can make them difficult to manage from distance or line of sight issues when trying to keep their numbers down so they deal AoE damage but still have enough around to generate new thralls.

Comments on lore aspect:

It's pretty clear that Revenant is set up to be an "anti Orokin/corrupted" warframe.  Even the Rad/Impact of his signature weapon follows that line.  It's also the faction that offers the best selection of thralls of both an offensive and defensive nature in many respects.  In the end even his signiature weapon kind of makes no sense as it's Rad/Impact status weapon to be effective against corrupted but you'd be hard-presseed to come up with a worse damage combination for Revenant.  Any thrall you shoot at/near and hit but but don't kill you either turn back against your team with rad or knock them down.  Both statuses stop thralls from acting as a CC by pulling aggro of new enemies and both stop thralls from shooting at enemies and generating free thralls.  I understand the reason it was done (anti orokin/corrupted, the theme of turning enemies against each other etc) but it still doesn't make any sense at all when looking at how the warframe itself functions.

As I opened with, I understand completely why people say Revenant feels rushed but I favour that he is "forced".  He feels made to fit his themes for lore purposes at the expense of fitting the game.  Not a deal breaker of course but these things are going to plague Revenant because they are so integral to his setup through that strict adherence to themes in his synergies.  I personally feel that in spite of his functionality he's destined to be a fringe frame for some and MR fodder for the masses.

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Reworked Revenant Suggestions

 

Enthrall- Duration/Strength/Range Based Control 

Enthralls a single target who then spreads the Enthrall effect to other enemies through damage.

When Enthralled enemy dies, a spectre is summoned, similar to Vomvalyst. This spectre remains stationary and is immune to damage. Spectres attack enemy units with ranged lasers every few seconds until the timer runs out.

Spectres remain for half the time enthralled do, so at most if they die directly after becoming enthralled they remain as a spectre for half the time.

Spectres cannot enthrall through damage.

Strength Mods affect Spectre Damage 

Range Mods affect spectre and Thrall attack range

 

Mesmer Skin- Duration based Defensive 

For the duration of the ability, any enemies that hit Revenant are put to sleep and can be enthralled for free while Revenant takes no damage. Costs 5 energy per attack 

Recastable to replenish timer while still active.

Recasting this ability enthralls all enemies affected by the sleep effect.

Duration Mods Affect sleep effect

Efficiency Mods affect negation cost.

 

Reave- Duration/Strength based Self survivability Buff

Gain a lifesteal effect on all damage dealt by Revenant and his thralls/spectres, restoring health to Revenant.

Strength Mods affect Lifesteal %

 

Dance Macabre- Duration/Strength/Range based dps ability 

Convert all enthralled enemies to spectres- spectres remain for the duration of this ability but are destroyed at the end. 

Spectres are super charged and release a continual stream of laser energy attacks that adapt damage type to enemy type. Their attacks can be focussed on a single target by pressing 4 while aiming at the specific enemy the Revenant wishes them to focus on. Otherwise they focus on enemies closest to them and then moving outwards. 

When the ability ends, spectres are destroyed and converted into shields and over shields for Revenant. Synergises with 1,2 and 3 abilities

Duration Mods affect Duration

Strength Mods affect spectre damage and shield/over shield conversion

Range Mods affect Spectre attack range 

 

Retaliation Passive- 

When Shields are depleted, Revenant releases an irradiating burst that afflicts enemy units around the Revenant as well as smaller radiation bursts from any thralls/spectres. 5 energy is restored to Revenant for each enemy hit by this.

Potentially size of irradiating burst affected by Range Mods and Strength mods increase energy restored

 

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After playing Revenant in many situations, I can say that he allows a very confident gameplay. He faces the enemies, diving into the heart of danger, and it's particularly fun.

The recent feedback that I have read and especially the suggestions of some, scare me. I hope that no radical change will take place, because Revenant is close to being perfect, and the changes he needs are really minimal in comparison to what some are asking for.

Firstly, it seems clear to me that it would be very practical to be able to use Entralls on several enemies at the same time, but at the same time, we shouldn't lose the possibility of doing it 1 by 1.
So, in the way of Gara 1, it would be necessary to be able to launch a cone or straight line version of Entrall.
To use Entrall several times in succession and to continue with Danse macabre is a sequence of action that we do regularly, but the time to use enthrall on 5 or 7 enemies, they are already dead thanks to the allies...

Also, the possibility of always being able to use Entralls, if we already have 7 Thralls, the 1st is released.
(Of course thralls shooting don't do this, only the use of power)

Secondly, fix 2 Mesmer Skin bug.
- The charge counter disappears when you switch to operator.
- The charge counter doesn't update when a nullifier attacks us.

I don't have problem with the fact that a nullifier succeeds in doing us damage without suffering the effects of Mesmer Skin, but if he reduces our charges, we need to see it, otherwise we do not realize we have to kill him quickly or flee.

Additionnal detail, I would really like stunned enemies to be open to the finisher.
You could even give a finisher passive property to the melee weapon that is intended for him and that will bring a little synergy.

Thirdly, Reave is quick to use during Dance of Death, but slow to use alone. Why ?
I remember hearing Rebecca saying it was his "escape move".
In this case it must be fast, and doable several times in a row without dead time.

Personally, I am still of opinion that it would be interesting to see this power to replace the roll of Revenant. But it's really optional.

And fourthly, Danse Macabre..
I personally don't have problem with the new energy cost.
Thanks to this cost, the power is used by choosing well its moment.
It is used quickly, to clean a pack of enemies, but in this case, we need a little help to reach our targets.
I mean, Revenant needs a possibility to overcome a few small obstacles, such as the iron fence around Hydron's pod.


The problem of thralls dying too fast under the fire of allies doesn't necessarily need the radical solution of making them invincible or very resistant to allied fire.
If Revenant could use Entrall on multiple enemies at once, the problem would be balanced.

Another solution that seems reasonable to me, is that the Thralls are indeed invincible to allied fire, but only for their first 5 or 7 seconds.

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Revenant has quickly become my favorite warframe. If he wasn't changed at all at this point, I find his kit powerful and useful from earth to Sorties solo to a full public squad.  I find Revenant to be the best jump into any mission and do well frame with him excelling at very specific mission types.  That said I will give my feed back on each of his powers.

 

Enthrall

I will admit I don't use this power often when part of a squad since my squad mates (or even myself) can just as easily kill the thralls.  The power is great for solo play for Interception making Revenant perhaps the best solo Interception frame.  Enthrall is also very useful for solo capture and spy missions since he can simply enthrall/stun the wardens before they have a chance to set off the alarms.  Enthrall also works great when needing to hack a console since the thralls are taking the hits and not use.  I find that 7 is enough to protect me both in number of bodies creating a barrier as well as drawing aggro.  This is not to say that Enthrall isn't useful at higher level content in a squad.  It just requires enemies that actually require effort to kill which is usually high level stuff.  Honestly, even as is, I think Enthrall is in the top ten of best 1 powers in Warframe.  Though, I will admit, this is largely due to many frames' 1 power being not good at all.

I am not going to complain about getting the ability to get more thralls even if I don't really need them.  However, I don't see making thralls immune to ally damage working great.  There is the chance it could hold up missions requiring all enemies dead (Defense, Liberate Camp), and even if it doesn't; still would have the nekros issue of allies attacking thralls instead of real threats.  No, I am good with thralls dying pretty easily as that is kinda what they do.

 

Mesmer Skin

I think his power is perfect as is.  I run a pretty high strength build probably giving me more stacks than the average long time player, but this gives me enough stacks that in even Sortie level non-endless missions I can usually manage them well enough to have least damage taken.  I treat this power a lot like Rhino's Iron Skin. And just like Iron Skin, as long as it is monitored and managed, I can usually manage to re-cast it while taking minimal damage.  Mesmer Skin doesn't allow the kind of protection to not juke and move to avoid damage, it just gives a little extra protection against the enemies you didn't see.  Honestly, any player that is complaining about this power is probability running a high efficiency/duration build for Danse Macabre sacrificing stacks for longer spin-to-win time and even damage with his 4 power. Either that, or face tanking too much.  I think Mesmer Skin is Revenant's most powerful ability as long as it is used properly.

While I don't think the power needs any change, the mist/smoke that goes with it can obscure aiming.  It often doesn't show the number of stacks after returning from using the operator until another stack is used.  Given how energy hungry this frame is, mean I perform a lot of void dashes.  I very much disagree with feedback allowing re-casting of this power before all the stacks are up.  At least not without using an Augment.  Like I said, I find this power comparable to Rhino's Iron Skin save this one scales with enemies.  It has a long casting time sure, but there is Natural Talent to speed it up and it can be cast in the air which allows Aviator to be used as well.

 

Reave

I don't really use this power with Revenant.  I play on a controller and have to cycle through powers so I can't reliably use it or use it easily with Danse Macabre.  Even if I could, it is still competing with my operator's void dash which allows vertical movement, greater travel distance, no cost of energy and with the arcanes I run health regen anyways.  I don't need health/shields regen typically and even if I did, I am not paying the energy cost of this power when Revenant is already a very energy hungry frame.  Perhaps the most energy hungry frame.  Reave might have some use in Danse, but like I said, a controller cycling through powers is going to waste a lot energy for that quick dash.

I would use Reave a lot more if gave casting cost + 25 energy off of thralls.  I would also like the ability to have directional control with it better hit multiple thralls not all lined up.  I won't complain if it gave back Mesmer Skin stacks off of thralls, but I think that might be too powerful.

 

Danse Macabre

All the 'trick' of this 'one-trick-pony' even if it isn't.  While danse is flashy and absolutely destroys low level trash mobs, it is more like a training wheels power of Revenant's kit.  It has its uses but it definitely isn't the end all, be all players make it out to be.  Because of the energy drain issue it has, I rarely use it for more than a couple of seconds (like Mesa's Peacemakers) except when I really want to clear and area or I know will have plenty of energy.  Given most of Warframe's mission are done while on the move, I find this slow-moving, ground-based attack fairly limited.  However, it does provide Revenant with damage and additional crowd control options.  It does just enough damage to make it useful at Sortie level enemies especially if you use the power increase. I prefer it being a channeled power as it allows more control over how long I think I will need use it before stopping.

While I can live with the current 20 energy/sec, I think it really should be more like 15-16 energy/sec.  I am not too bothered by the animation of it as I rarely spend a whole lot of time in it, but I could see how others might want something a little cooler looking.

 

Passive

I can't say I really notice his passive much.  However, that could be said for most warframe's passives.  So no real crime there.  I am sure it has come in handy and I never noticed it.  Which is probably something I could say for most warframe passives.  So I don't really have an opinion on it.

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hey DE not sure if your paying atention to this but here's some suggestions for revenant. make him an energy vampire. have his 1st ability have a second function of draining the life out of his thralls and convert them into energy or make his passive gain energy depending on how many thralls he has with him. and then make his thralls immune to friendly fire. 

and do that shield rework you guys said you were going to do but let it slip into the cracks cause revenant and any other frame thats unfortunate to have higher shields then health and armor can actually have survival ability without requiring that nuke all ability or some other cheese to avoid an unfair death. or best be for making it simple just make armor effect shield strength. or perhasp give these shield focused frames a way to avoid lethal damage. and make sure the dang nullifiers can't f over revenant outside the bubble. i remember mogamu mentioning about a nullifiers bullet being able to bypass revenants mesmer skin and one shot him.

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33 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

hey DE not sure if your paying atention to this

They have said they are but everyone should bear in mind that they have to read through over 50 pages (about 500 replies) on this thread, then they have to sort all that and plan how to implement that feedback in a way that will please everyone  - which is basically impossible. They also just got back from a long weekend, so i'd like to remind everyone to be patient & relax a bit. There's a lot of work for them to do.

A lot of people here also have said the same thing so maybe unless you have a completely new idea maybe hold off of replying - rather just use the reaction buttons to support the ideas you like. Personally i'd wait until the end of the week and see what happens then...

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I think the conversation around this frame being as polarizing as it is speaks volumes about implementation and frame potential.

The game is almost at 40 frames, and *I THINK the community is at peace with some overlap between frame roles & abilities, but Revenant *appears different for the sake of being different vs. viable.

Although there are some folks who really sing Rev's praises, I have a hard time wrapping my head around Rev defenders who use words like "capable".

I terms of use, Rev seems to be a lesser Oberon, with some ability synergy, and the "ability" to run through multiple mission types, but where does he excel?

Post re-work IMHO Oberon is in a great place and has significant build diversity for all content (even some high survival meta).

Could Revenant become the frame that unifies opposing stances on his worth through syndicate mods?  In some ways, these become non-patch patches to abilities AND still give vanguard fans the ability to play the original kit...

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So I'm not sure if this should be added here, but for the people that really want to know what might happen to Rev next.

https://www.twitter.com/rebbford/status/1037345995602968577

Seems weird that the added Reave functionality with be tied to Reaving through allies, I hope it's not that you regain Mesmer Skin charges from Reaving through alies cause it seems... counter intuitive?

Allies act as a distraction if they are nearby, so you should be losing less charges. Also rarely will more than 1 ally be in a position where you can easily do something like this to them.

Should you tell them "dude, stop moving around so I can get charges back!"?

It's even currently hard to reliably even use the Vazarin node that requires you to dash through allies, so I'm really hoping it's something more interesting than what I said.

Unless it's just something like giving them Mesmer Skin? 

That would be ok. Still want Reave to give charges from hitting enemies tho.

(Also faster casting speed pls)

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But why cant they ether fix the kit a little bit. (if you look at him with out his first ability - he is amazing. 

it feels like the .....

1 - first ability doesn't feel right on him

the other three work fine (just need a little fixing)

2 - needs to get a few extra charges or a duration and not to be counter based

3 - ok i get it (get yourself out of the heat button.

4 - It works and feel ok but there is a small but - its an amazing group killer. Yet he doesn't need it - it can be changed to work (it can be like a eidolong rain of lasers that do) that would make a lot of sense 

 

(now we can simple change his 1 - to summon some leaser version of vomvalyst (to heal or protect the frame him self) it would fit the kit better no? they don't need to be mindless thralls.  

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