Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

Recommended Posts

I tested him in the Simulacrum after his Changes and his changes are nice. He can still get one shot through his Mesmer Skin from a Hyeeka Master’s Grenade and Nullifier’s Lanka but Ballistas don’t one shot him anymore which is a small Improvement. Als Enthralled enemies gives him more health than non - Enthralled enemies while Enthralled enemies are Tankier now compare to a unthralled enemy.  Did notice his seeking Particle with his Pillars when you kill a enthralled enemy but to me, it’s like a Visual Changes. So he’s in a better place but not perfect still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even with the new changes out, he STILL needs the issues fixed

 

1.Enthral:
⦁    Thrall targets are immune to friendly fire, though the friendly damage dealt with them while the ability is active will be accumulated and then dealt with them once the ability ends 
⦁    Holding down the key will Auto-Kill the Thralls, setting up the traps they leave when they die as normal.
⦁    SFX Tweak: Has more spectral Eidolon Vomvalyst mask and orbiting around them, to help distinguished from other enemies even better. 


2. Mesmer Skin: 
⦁    Casting the ability again will add more charges that cost no energy to cast & no longer interrupts grounded movement and other actions.
⦁    Each charge can only be lost every 2-3-5s, upon losing a charge Revenant emits an AoE stun for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 seconds (On top of being stunned when attacked) 
⦁    SFX Tweak: Stunned enemies have a ghostly eidolon energy tendrils around them. To help distinguished who is stunned by who.
⦁    SFX Tweak: Revenant has much more eidolon energy tendrils and has a ghostly appearance. To help distinguished he has MS on.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new pillar projectiles are a good addition, but they don't really fix the problem of thralls not spreading as much as they could. Maybe adding a chance for the projectiles to turn enemies into thralls could balance that out.

 

Also have a suggestion for danse macabre having trouble hitting enemies in different height levels and not being as good for single, tanky enemies while also adding more player interaction; make the boost function focus the beams together and allow aiming of the beams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

I tested him in the Simulacrum after his Changes and his changes are nice. He can still get one shot through his Mesmer Skin from a Hyeeka Master’s Grenade and Nullifier’s Lanka but Ballistas don’t one shot him anymore which is a small Improvement. 

Tested this and no, he still gets 1 shot through Mesmer skin on all fronts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Tested this and no, he still gets 1 shot through Mesmer skin on all fronts

When i tested him against a lvl 120 Ballista with 20 Charges, she shot him and went to sleep. I guess you found a bug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that still needs to be worked on is his Danse Macabre

 

Its the most energy hogging 4 in the game for little damage you're dishing out

Either reduce Danse Macabre energy cost or increase its damage to match its energy cost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, VPrime96 said:

When i tested him against a lvl 120 Ballista with 20 Charges, she shot him and went to sleep. I guess you found a bug.

I tried it 3 times with a lv155 Balista. One shot everytime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how to feel about this frame anymore. 

The change to his pillars seem ok. Think the projectiles do impact damage which is some cc there, but yeah. I think I lost hope of Rev becoming good (or worth using over other frames) in my eyes.

He's not horrible or unusable, I just don't really feel like using him anymore even if they fix Mesmer Skin at this point. (Which is prob the only thing they'll do now)

I guess I just like the looks of the frame more than how the abilities turned out or are likely to pan out from now on.

My hype prob just died out. I just don't see myself using him anymore, you guys are free to keep giving feedback, but I think I'm done.

Comparing his changes to the Nezha revisit just makes me sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

I'm not sure how to feel about this frame anymore. 

The change to his pillars seem ok. Think the projectiles do impact damage which is some cc there, but yeah. I think I lost hope of Rev becoming good (or worth using over other frames) in my eyes.

He's not horrible or unusable, I just don't really feel like using him anymore even if they fix Mesmer Skin at this point. (Which is prob the only thing they'll do now)

I guess I just like the looks of the frame more than how the abilities turned out or are likely to pan out from now on.

My hype prob just died out. I just don't see myself using him anymore, you guys are free to keep giving feedback, but I think I'm done.

Comparing his changes to the Nezha revisit just makes me sad.

This makes the 2 of us....you could have not said it any better...such a pity for a Theme ( sentient/eidolon thing ) that could give us a stellar frame just like Nidus was when they released him ( all useful abilities, real synergies not dependancy, unique mechanics, badass look, an all round frames capable of CC's, DMG dealing, Boosting, and Tanky to the extreme )

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hace 18 minutos, Madway7 dijo:

My hype prob just died out. I just don't see myself using him anymore, you guys are free to keep giving feedback, but I think I'm done.

Comparing his changes to the Nezha revisit just makes me sad.

We already gave feedback, and the single most mentioned problem wasn't even addressed. I would say the best we could ALL do is stop giving useless feedback. I really wanted to like Revenant and I was happy just using his 4 even if his other abilities sucked. Now? After the slap on the face this update was I'm not even playing the game for a few days. That's how pissed off I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The passive is still completely useless. This needs to be either vastly improved or completely replaced.

Thralls are still useless on their own in parties, they can't survive for long while both you and your teammates are wailing on them. The homing projectiles don't do much, if anything at all, and the explosion from hitting the pillar with Danse Macabre isn't useful at all. They need to be immune to ally damage, and more obvious that they're enthralled. Also, single target enthrallment takes forever, "spreading" enthrallment isn't that good of a mechanic since it only works as well as the enemy you enthrall, in my opinion. I suggest removing the spreading mechanic and making Enthrall a targetted AoE ability similar to Equinox's Pacify and Provoke ability, or a centralized AoE that enthralls enemies close to Revenant without needing to target or aim the ability, and make Thralls completely immune to ally damage until the duration has run out. Pressing and holding the ability key ends Enthrall on all targets, allowing them to be attacked again.

Being able to re-cast Mesmer Skin while it's active is the biggest improvement, in my opinion. This definitely prevents a lot of unneeded deaths in higher level content, despite the casting animation being one of the longest in the game. If we can get an animation time that matches or is a bit shorter than Rhino's Iron Skin, we'll be totally fine. The only tweak besides that would be a buffer for large amounts of incoming damage, like high level Nullifier shots or Ballista grenades to not oneshot you through all of your Mesmer Skin stacks.

The added synergy between Reave and Enthrall looks good on paper, but it doesn't do anything for you unless you're soloing because allies just kill your thralls too quickly. Soloing, it's fantastic. You can keep Mesmer Skin active without needing to pause to re-cast it, which is nice. The synergy issues between Enthrall and Reave would be fixed purely with the proposed fixes to Enthrall. The Reave changes on their own are good. Reduced energy cost and vertical movement make the skill a lot more fun to use. I'd still like to see a bit of range functionality with the fog wall itself, even if it's a little bit. Being invulnerable for it's duration also drastically improves it's use as an escape tool, improving Revenant's survivability even more.

Danse Macabre could use a slight damage buff to justify the nerf to it's energy cost. As it stands right now, the ability has the highest drain per second in the game, and nothing else to show for it besides a decent damage output. It doesn't need anything outrageous, but I could stand to see it's base damage increased a little, and the boosted damage increased a bit more to make boosting the ability worth the energy cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just tried him properly after the recent changes in 23.8.0.... here's my feedback. 

Seems ok overall for a 'quick fix', nothing ground breaking but it's better than before.

Enthrawl  Changes still don't fix the issue of them dying too quickly or before they change to a thrawl, seems like our energy is taken if they die during cast too so can we at least get the ash bladestorm treatment where we only get charged if they fully turn.  Would still like a period of time where allies can't kill them too...

Mesmer Skin I haven't seen the 'one shot bug' for mesmer skin but I haven't specifically been looking for it either.

The changes still haven't changed mesmer skin charges to integers rather than decimal point values, why have a decimal value when it only takes a full charge per use?  Wouldn't be suprised if this has something to do with the 'one shot bug' being mentioned.

Ability to recast is nice but the animation makes it feel clunky because we just grind to a halt of need to do the 'run and jump' like we used to do with loki until it got changed to an animation that didn't break the flow...

Reave Wouldn't say no to a way to 'stop it' when it's in movement or even a way to control it's direction a little, I've had numerous occasions where it's got stuck against something and I'm stuck there until it's duration has finished.

EDIT : Originally thought this was a mesmer skin bug but it's actually a reave issue.  After triggering reave the graphics remain on the screen but in white giving the effect of a 'full screen fog'.  This makes it REALLY hard to see where we're going etc.

Dance Macabre  Still too expensive, still has issues with the smallest of steps, still has issues with the attack being too horizontal and not enough vertical variation. 

 

Passive  Stills feel like he doesn't actually have a passive, think this needs a rethink in all honesty. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have a quite a few issues with how Revenant works still, and am quite disappointed to still be echoing the needs for changes to his kit while watching a forgotten frame being seriously buffed at the same time.

  • Issues with Enthrall:
    • Allies can kill my thralls (why is this still a thing, it makes his 1 useless in any competent team you know this)
    • Thralls are only localized (This is a fast paced game, by the time I can build up 7 thralls to turn into overshields my team is already a few tiles away or killed them)
    • Suggestions: 
      • Make Enthrall a AOE ability
      • Make thralls unable to be damaged by allies
      • Make thralls follow you when not being shot (It seems they are now really slow and don't even attempt to come to you unless the whole map is nuked)
  • Issues with Mesmer Skin:
    • Too much fog (There are spots in his fog that makes aiming with the default white reticle slightly difficult)
  • Issues with Reave:
    • Difficult to use (75 energy to be locked into going in a straight line and stealing health on a warframe with very little health... Why?)
    • No reason to use (Revenant has a big pool for shields not health, yet only 1 faction has shields to steal from, making this useless for a lot of situations)
    • Suggestions:
      • Make direction unlocked as a constant push in the direction we are facing (This lets us go around corners and increases our accuracy in this mode)
      • Turn a small portion of health stolen into shields (so I have a reason other than "oh no imma die" to use this ability)
      • Give us small chance (10%?) to get Mesmer skin charges (this alone would be amazing and would give a real reason to use)
  • Issues with Danse Macabre:
    • Damage is still blocked by Mass vitrify (Ya you didn't actually fix it, I'm unsure if you forgot to add this change or if the joke of you not testing is true...)
    • Range is a useless modifier and confuses people (RANGE ONLY AFFECTS BEAM WIDTH, WHY EVEN INCLUDE THIS???)
    • Suggestions:
      • Remove the range modifier and just lock the beam width
      • Periodically have homing projectiles get shot from his left arm, so it actually has a purpose and gives this ability more range
  • Issue with Passive:
    • Another useless passive, and I would know since I love playing Nova. Seriously you know we hate her passive, why did you put it on ANOTHER frame. What is worse is that with his entire kit/theme it's obvious what his passive should have been from the beginning... MAKE ALL DAMAGE APPLIED TO HIS SHIELDS FIRST, LIKE AN EIDOLON SMH. /rant

 

I just want to reiterate that it is incredibly frustrating to see such insignificant and overengineered changes to a frame that is constantly being critiqued, as you completely rework a forgotten frame. When will DE learn to stop releasing underpowered/unfun/incomplete frames, because at this rate I'm not even looking forward for Garuda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After this change, I am more than happy to use him now. Making his 2 recastable was really all I ever needed out of him, but the extra bonuses, especially with his 3, is just icing on the cake.

Fantastic work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PraetorGix said:

We already gave feedback, and the single most mentioned problem wasn't even addressed. I would say the best we could ALL do is stop giving useless feedback. I really wanted to like Revenant and I was happy just using his 4 even if his other abilities sucked. Now? After the slap on the face this update was I'm not even playing the game for a few days. That's how pissed off I am.

thats what i posted yesterday ,feedback is usuallly non void, they usually do what they want anyway.so no point in feedback threads really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PraetorGix said:

We already gave feedback, and the single most mentioned problem wasn't even addressed. I would say the best we could ALL do is stop giving useless feedback. I really wanted to like Revenant and I was happy just using his 4 even if his other abilities sucked. Now? After the slap on the face this update was I'm not even playing the game for a few days. That's how pissed off I am.

yeah posted about the hype being gone too 😕  i mean its just not there they complelty butchered this frame , and its really sad beacuse this is probably going to be a thing now ,as ive mentioned b4 this frame is not even close to being worth 325 plat and as far as im concerned the quest to get him is no better   😕

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Around 3 steps forward and one step back

First with the good. Mesmer skills a all around good skill. Good work. Reave is better however with the current vertical nature of most tile sets Reave needs to be able to dash vertically a la slash dash from Excalibur. Almost perfect.

However Revenant's kit's synergy all falls apart around thralls still. Thralls spreading mechanics are lack luster, the cast animation is slow, and you only get 1 at a time. Please add at least one more way for thralls to spread and make Enthrall AoE like Banish. Poor Thrall acquisition holds back the rest of his kit. No matter how good you make the synergies between thralls and his other skills it won't do anything when taking thralls is a slow, tedious, and un-streamlined process. 

Lastly Dance Macbre detonating pillars is somewhat counter productive of an effect. I'd rather keep my pillars then detonate them with Dance Macbre with the new buffs to pillars. Also perhaps make the pillars and their projectiles rad proc like the phantasma? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I can appreciate the changes to Revenant. He still has the major flaw with his Kit, and it is still his 1 Enthrall. His kit still relies on his thralls, infact with the small changes to Reave, slightly more so now. But the problem still stands where Rev's thralls are killed nearly instantly by friendly players and friendly fire and thus not being able to enjoy or fully utilize his kit.

I still propose that Rev's thralls are made to be immune to friendly fire, and will accumulate friendly fire damage which will hit them once the Enthrall duration ends.

This will allow Rev to utilize his current kit more fully and enjoyably on that end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using Reave while Danse Macabre is active:

Make your duration 12% and you can spam the ability to create a problem where the VFX stacks.

Me and a friend were trying it out and the effects were so blinding that we had to go into Operator form.

FdngBhe.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those wondering how the one-shot glitch works...

Mesmer Skin currently has a threshold, that threshold is Revenant's EHP (Estimated Hit Points) with is a combination of Health Armor and Shields. Since Rev has little armor most of his EHP come from his health and Shields, so it is easy estimate Rev's. The problem is, if Rev get his by something that does more damage than Rev has EHP, he will just die. This is a big problem because his EHP is only about 2,400 at level 30. 

This become even more pathetic if you compare Rev to Gara. Gara, with her splinter storm, with equals to about 14,800. With that amount of EHP, Gara can effortlessly handle being hit by something really hard at high level, but Rev cant. He can't scale at all.

This is why it important that DE fix this issue with Rev's Mesmer Skin, because right now there is nothing to balance out how quickly it can drain. Yes, he can now refresh Mesmer skin, but so can Gara's Splinter Storm, and she can scale so much higher than Rev that its not even funny. 

Six stacks should equal to 6 hits requires if the hit does 5 damage or 500,000 damage.

 

Note: If you wondering how Gara EHP is so high, it because Splinter Storm can easily give here 90% damage reduction before shields: ((740+740)/0.1= 14,800)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Passed a certain level, the pillars are not damagind the ennemies at all !
I've just done the sortie survival with rev, it was great, I really love the changes (removing the countdown on thralls or make them die at the end of the ability would be a great addition though, without being overpowered) but the pillars kept ticking at 0 dmg on ennemies lvl 90-100 !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The recent alterations done to Revenant are okay, except for one problem.  The Enthrall pillars explosion caused by Danse Macabre feels it should not be part of the ability naturally, but rather an augment for future release.  I would rather have a small group of "turrets" instead of causing them to explode due to using Danse Macabre trying to get shield recharge/overshields.  In a few situations I've recently been it it felt like I had to make a forceful choice to have the pillar or to attempt to get the shields, and that's not a fun choice to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right off the bat I need to say that Revenant is in a far better place than he was. His 2 has suddenly made him far FAR more surviveable, his 3's costs have been toned way the hell down, and his 1's thrall aggroing everything off of him is amazing. However problems still exist.


Passive: Even in ESO i still can't ever tell when this thing goes off. Not the worst thing in the world since a lot of frames have junk passives, but if I'm going to talk about what revenant is like now I'm going to mention his passive. THe idea is interesting. Maybe bump up the radius on enemies affected that gets weaker as you're further away (like Banshee's quake augment)? I dunno.

In my opinion a better passive would be for revenant's shields affected by his armor. This gives him something unique and would help with surviveability in instances where mesmer skin is down and you can't recast.


Enthrall: Thralls themselves doing little damage to eachother is 'OK this is comically bad' but... I mean far from ideal but they're intended more as CC when alive, which is what they succeed at beutifully. Sure the AI is a bit derpy for many units, but that isn't the most horrible thing in the world.

My problem is more with the on death behavior. It's far FAR better than it was in that the flame pillars now will proactively attack enemies. However their rate of fire is really.... Look if i have to stop and hang out to watch to see them do their thing that is probably a sign they aren't firing enough. Their damage output being bad can be fixed by having the damage dependant on the enemy type the thrall was using the same sorts of damage types his 4 uses (grineer units deal corrosive, corpus magnetic, infested gas.) I actually think increasing the rate of fire and giving them that sort of damage mechanic would fix the problem of 'weak non-scaling damage.') However if that isn't enough make their damage scale with what the thrall's level was (so the damage formula would be something like ('Base Damage' x 'Enemy Level' + 'Enemy Type determines damage dealt to surrounding enemies.' = 'Damage dealt.')

Again. The CC component is fine. Disappointing that the enemies don't do enough damage to really hurt eachother, but they literally stated the point of the living thralls is to CC, so that's not where my focus is. I suspect implimenting the changes im suggesting of altering damage type and an increased rate of fire will be buff enough rather than a damage amount increase, though I suspect people will point out a rate of fire increase with the same numbers tecnically counts but I'd rather focus on fire-rate than attack strength between the two.

Lastly the pillars have an interaction with Dense Macabre where any pillars hit explode. TO me this provides anti-synergy in that an ability that does damage is taking away other sources of damage when it's already outpacing those other sources. Given how dependant revenant is on his mesmer skin. Let's instead make the pillars when struck by his 4 restore mesmer skin charges.. Given you can't re-cast mesmer skin while in his 4 this would add a little bit of surviveability.


Mesmer Skin: I... actually think this one is in a solid place now.


Reave: Lowered base cost that further reduces when he's in his 4, being completely invincible while in reave.

My current problem is the 'reave through thralls to restore mesmer skin charges' mechanic. As mentioned above I feel the better interaction would be dense macabre hitting the thrall pillars restoring charges. However the ideao f interacting with thralls would be interesting.

Interactions with thralls that I can think of:

Empowering thralls so they deal more damage to surrounding enemies.

Chance to spawn energy orbs much like nezha can tag enemies now.

The thing is right now i feel little reason to use reave. Maybe if it were steerable that would change, but as is it just plain feels clunky.


Dense Macabre: This is as of this writing the most expensive channel ability in the game with less effective range than Mesa, excal, or banshee. Please do not take this as me saying any of those should be nerfed.

Instead I would like his costs lowered to something at least on par with what Mesa's peacemakers cost. Furthermore I suggest that the 'hold down mouse button to boost damage' mechanic be scrapped. Instead I propose the click/hold damage value be the base damage, but Revenant is unable to move without click/holding, which increases his energy drain.

This gives his 4 tremendous crowd damage potential, but limits how he can apply it so that he isn't just 'press 4 and win' due to the ability's range being self limiting and the player needing to make a judgement call on if they want to spend more energy to move, or if they just want to leave his 4 and go elsewhere.

I have already proposed changes to how this ability works in relation to Thrall's death pillars, but it is worth repeating. SInce revenant cannot recast mesmer skin and this ability by its nature tends to kill thralls (Making reave's current interaction of 'reave through thralls to recover mesmer charges' kinda pointless) why not allow it to consume thrall death pilalrs to restore mesmer skin charges?


These are just my thoughts. I would like to hear yours as I rather enjoy revenant now as the changes to his kit have drastically upped his survivability. HE feels fun, he's great for interceptions (thralls do not count as enemies for end of round kill enemies phases.) I just feel he needs that last bit of spit polish.

He's fun. I like him. I can just see ways to make him better, hopefully without making him busted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...