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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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My thoughts after this buff:

Enthrall: still susceptible to friendly fire. Suggest to give thralls a 3-second invulnerability grace period to spread effect before the next arca plasmor/ignis wraith/tigris prime/maiming atterax spin takes their lives. Request to increase thrall cap to 8 minimum (10 max) to slightly differentiate further from Nekros ult. Again, I would like to stress that enthrall merely repurposes minions from the existing NPC spawn pool as opposed to forcibly spawning in new NPCs like Shadow of the Dead, so slightly increasing the thrall cap shouldn't impact performance significantly.

Mesmer skin: Ability to recast while active is pretty good, a roundabout way of offsetting the slow cast speed. Aside from initial request to slightly buff casting speed, would like to ask DE to review Revenant being killed through Mesmer Skin from an enemy attack exceeding his EHP. Another bug to look into is Operator mode hiding count of remaining charges.

Reave: Cast animation (the posing before actually blasting forwards and dealing damage) still slow. Request to speed up casting animation to match Hydroid's Tidal Surge casting speed. Thanks for the energy reduction especially during DM, was very much needed.

Danse Macabre: Death Pillar Explosion is a SOFT NERF! Part of a point of building a thrall army was to reward patience; let the thralls tangle with mobs before casting DM, so that heavy mobs are both being laser'd as well as burned by multitudes of pillars! A double whammy, so to speak. But now, it feels like one is being forced a choice: either have the awesome death pillar sentries, or have your lazers.

Death pillars exploding on contact with DM lasers effectively trades sustained DPS for burst DPS; unless damage from explosion is gigantic enough it seems like a big nerf to sustained DPS potential since heavy mobs can simply tank the explosion and only have to worry about the lasers. My suggestion: Remove explosion effect, in exchange disable death pillar projectiles while DM is active while allowing the pillars to grow larger in radius and do more damage per tick, shrinking back down and firing projectiles once more when DM is deactivated. Alternatively set a death pillar cap; once cap is exceeded older pillars are made to explode.

One last thing: I gotta comment that the pillar projectiles are REALLY slow moving. This is compounded by the fact that they are forced to rise vertically from the pillar before arcing down to the closest enemy. Enemies can easily outrun them and they don't go far from the pillar before dissipating.

Passive: Still a counter-intuitive/anti-synergy mechanic. Revenant is a shields-themed frame, slot in a primed vigor or redirection and the passive will never trigger on low level content effectively making it non-existant. It's also useless if ranged enemies (Grineer, Corpus) stand far enough from him and don't get caught in the radius. Why not gate his passive to trigger at several percentages of his shield, like 100% (activating right at the first instance of damage), 50% and finally 0%?

Base stats: Can Revenant have a slight reduction in his shields (225->200) in exchange for an increase to his health or armor (100/105->125)? Just hoping for slightly little more EHP.

Good buffs all in all for the most part (aside from the conflict between death pillars and danse macabre), but still could stand to have a few last tweaks.

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So I thought of something interesting for Enthrall and his passive, it kind of scraps the idea of casting it directly on enemies one at a time, but still gives the ability the same premise that it currenty haves. It works like this:

Enthrall no longer needs to be cast on enemies. The ability now summons 7 spectral Vomvalysts, that each have their own health pool, AI, and can attack as it's own entity. Vomvalysts will seek out enemies while shooting homing lasers, and will attach themselves to enemies, effectively "enthralling" them until the enemy dies or the Vomvalyst's duration runs out. An enemy that was enthralled by a Vomvalyst and dies while possessed will release the Vomvalyst and allow it to possess a new target. This provides passive CC from the Vomvalysts and effectively allows the current synergies with Revenant's other abilities to remain generally the same. Reave's benefits, the HP and Shield drain and the extra stack of Mesmer Skin, can still be applied to enemies possessed by the Vomvalysts, and to a lesser degree on the Vomvalysts themselves, casting Reave on a lone Vomvalyst will restore a fixed portion of health and shields, no Mesmer Skin stack, but will restore the Vomvalyst's health as well, and attacking possessed enemies with Danse Macabre can still drop overshields. The damaging pillar effect is removed due to the Vomvalysts being able to attack on their own.

Enemies possessed by a Vomvalyst will take a small damage over time. Enemes stunned by Mesmer Skin will become priority targets for Vomvalyst enthrallment. Recasting the ability will resummon any killed Vomvalysts. Pressing and holding the ability button will dispell all active Vomvalysts. Vomvalysts will be attacked by enemies and can be killed by them, but CANNOT be targetted directly by allies, allowing your Vomvalysts to continue enthralling enemies until they die or their timer runs out.

 

A new idea for Revenant's passive will play on the final Eidolon phase where the Eidolon releases those energy waves while it's down after breaking the final Synovia. While in the bleedout state, you release a pulse of Puncture damage that inflicts a guaranteed Puncture proc every 3 seconds within a set radius of your location. If you have Vomvalysts active at the time you're put in the Bleedout state, each Vomvalyst will rush to your aid and add time to your Bleedout timer.

 

These are just brainstorms that I had while I was at work, but I think reducing the reliance on needing to target things with Enthrall in order to have access to all of your synergies makes things a lot easier on the player, while still maintaining the basic idea of that first ability and allowing those synergies to remain largely unchanged. Enthrall becomes a single cast ability that then passively controls enemies in the same manner as it does now, but more efficiently and with less need to micromanage and re-cast it if your allies become overzealous and kill each of your thralls. This allows the ability to be useful in both party play and in solo play.

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Changes I would like to try personally,

Enthrall

1.) Thralls have 90% damage resistance against Tenno other than their owner.

Purpose: Reduce the number of thralls being wiped out as unintentional collateral damage.

2.) When killed, thralls turn into something similar to a Vomvalyst for the remaining duration of the ability (e.g. if they had 15 seconds of thralling left, they become a Vomva-like for 15 seconds). Maximum number of both minions is still capped at 7, where "real" enemies can make vomvalysts get pushed off the population stack but not vice-versa. Vomva-like pets are completely immune to all incoming damage no matter where it's from, but can still transmit Enthrall to their targets in which case they die instantly.

Purpose: Give players utility from Enthralling enemies on high-DPS teams without the the clunkiness that is damage pillars and projectiles and having to tag pillars with the lasers and bleh. Essentially when you cast this you can be ensured that for your full duration there will be something going on, as your ability jumps from host to host until its duration is expired.

 

Mesmer Skin

When hit, subtract 1 charge from Mesmer Skin to stun whoever hit you and apply damage resistance for 3 seconds. Further stuns and losing further charges cannot happen until the 3 seconds expires.

Purpose: Remove abusive gameplay that total invulnerability gives, as well as make the skill less limited for the average player.

 

Dance Macabre

Energy cost starts at 5 energy per second and applies a stacking debuff that increases its cost by 2 per second (per second) up to 10 stacks as long as you have it active. (i.e. peak energy cost of 25 energy per second after leaving it on for 10 seconds).  Debuff stacks decay while not using this ability.

Purpose: Make ability cost substantially less for "tactical" use and only punish keeping it engaged for long periods of time.

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Just now, Momaw said:

 

Dance Macabre

Energy cost starts at 5 energy per second and applies a stacking debuff that increases its cost by 2 per second (per second) up to 10 stacks as long as you have it active. (i.e. peak energy cost of 25 energy per second after leaving it on for 10 seconds).  Debuff stacks decay while not using this ability.

Purpose: Make ability cost substantially less for "tactical" use and only punish keeping it engaged for long periods of time.

I really like this idea. Giving it a creeping energy cost definitely beats a flat overall energy cost nerf.

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 All the changes are cool Enthralls are massively more useful now as crowd control and that's awesome. The Reave changes are awesome and the Mesmer Skin being recastable is pretty neat. I'd go into greater detail about how awesome all the changes are, But what's most important too me now is the bug fixes that still need to be made.

These bugs are ..
-Pets becoming Enthralled by thralls after being attacked, (probably because of a radiation proc.) Become unress-able until Enthrall wares off.
-Nullifires being able to shoot through Mesmer skin and deal damage directly to your life points! This is ridiculous and quite frankly it's a miserable way to be suddenly sent to the shadow realm.
**Under further investigation this is not limited to just Nullifiers but also, Hyekka Master grenades and the Grinner roller grenades.
-Reave's animation does not animate correctly when casting Reave while looking away from the direction Revenant was originally is facing 
I know some of these have been mentioned before but I believe I should continue mentioning them until they're addressed.

------

I do have 1 additional thoughts about Revenant outside of bugs and that is about Mesmer/Reave. It would be nice if Reaving while wearing Mesmer Skin could effect Eidolon Lures as well in addition to giving damage reduction proportionate to the amount of charges Revenant currently has instead of giving them one MS charge. Or allow Revenant to give lures and allies 1/2, to 1/3 the amount of charges he can have. This could make him more useful in a Eidolon fight and better support him acting in a supportive roll. as opposed to just passing on just one MS charge

In closing I just want to say I do appreciate all the work y'all put into Revenant. Thank you

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Revenant is pretty good now. A few minor things:

Reave without Danse Macabre seems a little underwhelming - it's very good with. Maybe it should always be instant cast.

Danse Macabre could use a progressive energy drain that very quickly ramps up to encourage regular but not continuous use.

Mesmer Skin seems to have a bug where you die regardless.

Enthrall is nonfunctional at 7 Thralls. Instead it should free the oldest Thrall (or a Thrall you did not target yourself) and enthrall the new target.

Switching to Operator is unavailable during Danse Macabre - would be nice if you could switch as usual.

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Only issues I have is...

1) Danse Macabre's damage doesn't scale. Adding some sort of scaling mechanic with it would be greatly appreciated.

2) The bugs with Nullifiers and a few other mobs where they are able to shoot through mesmer skin: with this bug, going on long endurance runs is very very difficult b/c I can be one tapped for no good reason. For instance, Mesa's shatter shield and Zephyr's turbulance stops these attacks so why can't mesmer skin do this too?

Other than these, I am loving the new changes. Thanks! <3

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I can only assume this is a bug, but Revenant can enthrall just about everything. I was doing a mission and a Stalker began to hunt me, someone in my squad was able to Enthrall the Stalker, and when it got Enthralled, it was frozen in a meditating position, and we able to kill it in under 3 seconds.

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51 minutes ago, Delixilion said:

I can only assume this is a bug, but Revenant can enthrall just about everything. I was doing a mission and a Stalker began to hunt me, someone in my squad was able to Enthrall the Stalker, and when it got Enthralled, it was frozen in a meditating position, and we able to kill it in under 3 seconds.

Unclear if it's unintended or not but he can enthrall most bosses too. Makes him a pretty decent boss killer tbh.

 

EDIT: Some suggestions on the new update:

- The projectiles from the death pillars seem minimal in terms of damage. They would be much better if they would enthrall enemies upon hitting them since converting dead thralls into new thralls is a key aspect Revenant needs to not feel punished when allies kill his thralls.

-The cast time for Reave outside of Danse Macabre is still too long considering it's a get-away ability.

-Giving one charge of Mesmer Skin to allies isn't enough. Have him add about a third of his current total mesmer charges (with my strength, I get 12 charges, so one reave would add 4 mesmer skin charges, which seems reasonable considering what other team defense frames like Gara or Nezha can do).

-The fog effect from Mesmer Skin is distracting, especially now that it applies to allies as well

-Passive is still useless.

Otherwise, a good update and a pretty decent frame. But he could be legit great with some relatively simple changes.

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He still has a major issue. Most of the synergies of his kit revolve around the weakest and most useless part of his kit, living thralls. Dead thralls are pretty usefully now, but living ones are almost useless in team play. 

If you look at each part of his kit minus the synergies, he's just passable. But if you look at his kit as a whole there are problems everywhere, all going back to the thralls.

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Glad to hear on Prime time Revenant will get further evaluation for potentially more changes and refinements. I have posted what I think would be best.Revenant feels a lot better than he did, but 'death by a thousand cuts' applies here it seems where this that and other things just kinda chip away and show flaws that are just plain maddening.

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Enthrall

The main problem seems to be that players are struggling with the life and death balance of their thralls. Thralls are great alive since they can draw enemy aggro, and on death pillars will damage nearby enemies. The problem tends to be that Thralls die too quickly, leaving no thralls to aggro enemies. They tend to be wiped out before they can even spread much as well, also leaving very few death pillars. This is just Enthrall on it's own too, the ability is supposed to have synergy with all of his other skills. If Thralls die too quickly, there's no time for the synergy to even matter.

 

When Revenant casts Enthrall on an enemy, he creates a Greater Thrall. Thralls created by other Thralls are Lesser thralls. On death, instead of leaving a damaging pillar, Greater Thralls crawl out of their grave in a spirit form, unable to be damaged by allies and lasting for the rest of Enthrall's duration (or until killed by enemies). Dead Greater Thralls can still turn enemies into Lesser Thralls. Greater Thralls can be killed by Danse Macabre (but only by the Revenant that created it).

Having at least one Thrall that can't be killed by allies would likely solve a lot of issues. There's a constant source of Enthrall spreading, and there will always be a thrall available if Revenant needs it.

 

Mesmer Skin

I think that being able to recast Mesmer Skin might be a tad too strong, but it's definitely nice since Revenant feels quite squishy when vulnerable. There's definitely some bugs going around where he dies despite having Skin charges, or even being hit by splash damage. These need to be fixed. If it were going to damage Revenant, it should be blocked, except damage from status effects of course.

Another Issue I have is that the ability basically makes Revenant not take damage. His Passive relies on taking damage, Reave is to heal himself, and Danse Macabre on Thralls give Overshields. All of this is useless when Mesmer Skin is a thing. 

 

Reave

I like the ability to help out allies a bit, but sometimes it doesn't quite feel like it's very effective. Personally I'd be fine with it restoring some shields and health to allies as well. Nothing too crazy though. Overall the ability is okay and definitely has its uses more now than before

 

Danse Macabre

It's been suggested before, but I'd like to see the energy cost ramp up rather than starting off super expensive. I feel like I'm forced into building maxed efficiency due to it draining so much energy right off the bat.

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I'm honestly not feeling the recent Revenant buff.
My gripe is the buffs to enthrall's pillars. I haven't really noticed the projectiles they supposedly shoot out, and if they do exist they hardly seem to do anything. Also the ability to detonate them with his 4 seems kinda moot considering the fact that you're going to hit all the enemies around him too. These additions still pale in comparison to what you can do with living thralls. I know it shouldn't be desirable to kill them immediately, but these additions are so weak that I wouldn't consider killing them at all unless I was using my 4, or trying to position a pillar in a doorway to create a trap. (which are the same reasons why I would kill a thrall before these additions)

Overall I believe the core issue with Revenant is your teammates capability to kill your thralls, and these changes don't really do anything to mitigate that. On one hand you can't exactly make it so your teammates can't attack dozens of enemies just because you pressed 1 (unless you're limbo) but, when your teammates kill all of your thralls, you lose a lot of functionality of Revenant's kit. You can't make much use of your 3, you can't get shield pickups from killing them with your 4, and you lose all of your meat shields and have to work up more, which will inevitably get killed by your teammates again. It's a vicious cycle of working up a large number of thralls to fall back on, or position in a strategic spot to kill them, then having them all killed in one fell swoop by one of your teammates.
(of course this issue does not exist in solo play, but Warframe is at heart a multiplayer game.)

I suggest Making it so when thralls die, they leave behind a ghost of the enthralled enemy that lingers for a few seconds, then erupts into a pillar. This way teammates can freely kill your thralls without much detriment to the Revenant player. The only thing these thrall ghosts shouldn't do that living thralls can do, is enthrall other enemies. (Also this mimics the core characteristic of Vomvalysts turning into ghosts) 

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Please remove Dance Macabre detonating pillars. I want to keep my pillars and use Dance Macabre. Perhaps buff the explosion and make it an augment or some other way to detonate the pillars like casting enthrall on a pillar to detonate it.  Also to play devil's advocate I enjoy the fact the teammates can kill thralls. Gibes enthrall the added use of CC on dangerous enemies (Kuva Flood Juggy/level 100 G3). Make having unkillable thralls an augment or something for people who want it. 

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11 minutes ago, Sea_Wall said:

Please remove Dance Macabre detonating pillars. I want to keep my pillars and use Dance Macabre. Perhaps buff the explosion and make it an augment or some other way to detonate the pillars like casting enthrall on a pillar to detonate it.  Also to play devil's advocate I enjoy the fact the teammates can kill thralls. Gibes enthrall the added use of CC on dangerous enemies (Kuva Flood Juggy/level 100 G3). Make having unkillable thralls an augment or something for people who want it. 

I had a whole tangent about how I think blowing up the pillars is actually counterproductive and makes his pillars worse overall, but I deleted it because it was making my comment a mouthful. but yeah, I totally agree with that

I think ghost thralls should be an augment too actually. either way I desperately want some variation of this in the game.

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why are his thralls able to be damaged by allies? that is baffling they are obliterated instantly, do nekros shadows take friendly fire damage?  🤔this needs to be changed immediately the ability is pretty much useless

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7 hours ago, Sea_Wall said:

 Also to play devil's advocate I enjoy the fact the teammates can kill thralls. Gibes enthrall the added use of CC on dangerous enemies (Kuva Flood Juggy/level 100 G3). Make having unkillable thralls an augment or something for people who want it. 

Agree. Enthrallis a cheap ability so i make up for the lack of pilalr damage by having LOTS of pillars for zones of death.

Maybe pillars enthrall enemies that survive their damage? This paired with bumping up pillar damage and giving them a damage type dependant on the enemy that got enthralled (Grineer corrosive, Infested gas, Corpus magnetic, Snetient... Uuuuuhhhhh...? I'd say void but technically you can enthrall vombulysts can't you? Can't do that then since that would make a joke of the eidolon fight..)

Agee totally in disliking the pillar detonation thing but like the idea of it being an augment (Maybe have the augment have the detonation do 4x all remaining damage in an AOE to make it worthwhile.)


Personally I think the best way to salvage reave would be to make it fully steerable instead of a striaghtline dash. Yes I know vombulyst dash is in a straight line, but end of the day it just plain feels clunky to use.

Mesmer skin is largely fine, but giving it the ability to go 'oh i don't care how much damage that was. Nope' per charge would help immensely with instances of self damage from phantasma, radiation sorties, or other instances where you take above your EHP's worth of damage all at once. i've already mentioned disliking the interactions to regain mesmer skin charges but like the ideathat dense macabre has a way to recharge (though to be blunt the simpler solution would be to give it the ability to cast mesmer skin at redused cost, maybe 10 energy, to refresh.)

As for Dense Macabre's cost? Maybe make it like how ember's world of fire is and have it ramp, going from something a little higher than it's old value, and capping at its current value with the beams getting stronger the longer it goes since in theory if you're in for that long you have a good reason to burn your energy stores to the ground. Furthermore speed up the cast animation AND give it an end of ability AOE knockdown that does little damage but serves as a 'ok i need to get out of dodge while they're picking themselves back up because now i have no energy'. Someone on reddit suggested while the ability is active zoom the camera out, make some screenshake or other effects to give a sense of weight to make it feel more powerful, possibly intensifying this effect as the ability ramps up (side effect of likely being annoying over a duration which would incentivize most people to use it in a more tactical sense.)

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11 hours ago, atejas said:

-The fog effect from Mesmer Skin is distracting, especially now that it applies to allies as well

Very very distracting till the point of not seeing what your aiming at especially in dark tilesets. Wukong does not shoot in cloudwalker visuals but Revenant does, ideally remove the fog.

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9 hours ago, (XB1)IStudioGhibliI said:

why are his thralls able to be damaged by allies? that is baffling they are obliterated instantly, do nekros shadows take friendly fire damage?  🤔this needs to be changed immediately the ability is pretty much useless

That happend at the early stage of Revenant at PC and yeah it’s annoying how Teammates can kill your Thralls. They’re better than before he got brought into Console and before Nezha’s Rework came. Nekros SOTD don’t take Firendly Fire At all.

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On 2018-09-13 at 11:46 AM, Momaw said:

Changes I would like to try personally,

Enthrall

1.) Thralls have 90% damage resistance against Tenno other than their owner.

Purpose: Reduce the number of thralls being wiped out as unintentional collateral damage.

2.) When killed, thralls turn into something similar to a Vomvalyst for the remaining duration of the ability (e.g. if they had 15 seconds of thralling left, they become a Vomva-like for 15 seconds). Maximum number of both minions is still capped at 7, where "real" enemies can make vomvalysts get pushed off the population stack but not vice-versa. Vomva-like pets are completely immune to all incoming damage no matter where it's from, but can still transmit Enthrall to their targets in which case they die instantly.

Purpose: Give players utility from Enthralling enemies on high-DPS teams without the the clunkiness that is damage pillars and projectiles and having to tag pillars with the lasers and bleh. Essentially when you cast this you can be ensured that for your full duration there will be something going on, as your ability jumps from host to host until its duration is expired.

 

Mesmer Skin

When hit, subtract 1 charge from Mesmer Skin to stun whoever hit you and apply damage resistance for 3 seconds. Further stuns and losing further charges cannot happen until the 3 seconds expires.

Purpose: Remove abusive gameplay that total invulnerability gives, as well as make the skill less limited for the average player.

 

Dance Macabre

Energy cost starts at 5 energy per second and applies a stacking debuff that increases its cost by 2 per second (per second) up to 10 stacks as long as you have it active. (i.e. peak energy cost of 25 energy per second after leaving it on for 10 seconds).  Debuff stacks decay while not using this ability.

Purpose: Make ability cost substantially less for "tactical" use and only punish keeping it engaged for long periods of time.

I love these ideas, I just want to add on some things.

Enthrall

1.) The damage of pillars and their homing projectiles functions like that of Danse Macabre's, in which it adapts based on the enemy type (Armor = Corrosive, Shields = Magnetic, Gas against infested flesh).

Purpose: The damage becomes slightly more relevant against higher level enemies.

 

2.) Pillars are no longer detonated by Danse Macabre, UNLESS Revenant holds down the fire button to boost Danse Macabre's damage.

Purpose: Gives Revenant more control over when to detonate pillars.


3.) Enthralled enemies no longer attack each other.

Purpose: It feels really bad to have your own minions fighting each other.  They should be fighting the enemy!

 

4.) If Revenant gets a certain distance away from his thralls they will teleport to him like a Kavat or Kubrow would.  

 

Purpose: Revenant's durability relies on having his thralls nearby.  Also if you kill all nearby enemies and only your thralls are left you get the choice to either kill them or run away, let them expire, and kill them later.  Neither one of those feel like a great choice.

Mesmer Skin

Energy cost increased to 75 energy.

Purpose: Discourages recasting the ability, favors using Enthrall and Reave to maintain it instead.  Recasting should be only for cases of emergency.

Reave

1.) Cast delay shortened.

Purpose: Makes it feel better to use.


2.) Can now be cast to dash upward, downward, or anywhere in between during Danse Macabre.

Purpose: Slight obstacles no longer require you to end Danse Macabre, jump over them, and continue it or give up and just kill enemies the good ol' fashioned way.

 

Revenant's already in a decent spot, but he has so much potential for polishing at the moment.  If they work out all the kinks he could become one of my favorite frames to use.  

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18 minutes ago, Messaiga said:

Energy cost increased to 75 energy.

Purpose: Discourages recasting the ability, favors using Enthrall and Reave to maintain it instead.  Recasting should be only for cases of emergency.

Speaking as someone who often uses Oberon? No. I will never like the idea of 'oh this ability is too good let's make it expensive so they'll have to look at all the bolted on features other abilities have to force them to use those' which is the problem his 4 had as their week one patch 'oh people are using this a lot. make it more expensive' is stupid because we, OK I and a few other vocal folk, used it because the rest of his kit was garbage. SInce the thrall changes, I've been using thrall a lot more.

SImpler fixes.

Make mesmer skin castable in dense macabre at reduced cost (10) and give 'reave through thralls' something else, like giving thralls mesmer skin which wil help their surviveability vs enemies and will act as a way to further CC by stunning any enemies that attack empowered thralls. I already brought up a 'soft' sortof limiter for dense macabre spam as a ramping energy cost, so that makes it better useable in momentary bursts and would be theoretically useful to have go for longer if you're still surrounded, but also discourages that behavior by ramping energy cost to what it is now rather than just flat across the board 'this is the most expensive channel i nthe game' which in my opinion is dumb. Sure you discourage use but in that instance WHY HAVE THE ABILITY IF YOU DO NOT WANT US USING IT?

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27 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Speaking as someone who often uses Oberon? No. I will never like the idea of 'oh this ability is too good let's make it expensive so they'll have to look at all the bolted on features other abilities have to force them to use those' which is the problem his 4 had as their week one patch 'oh people are using this a lot. make it more expensive' is stupid because we, OK I and a few other vocal folk, used it because the rest of his kit was garbage. SInce the thrall changes, I've been using thrall a lot more.

I see what you're saying.  My thought is nobody's going to bother to use Reave unless Revenant's durability is equally attached to Mesmer Skin and Reave, but you're right in that changing Mesmer Skin's cost won't really push him in that direction.

30 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Make mesmer skin castable in dense macabre at reduced cost (10) and give 'reave through thralls' something else, like giving thralls mesmer skin which wil help their surviveability vs enemies and will act as a way to further CC by stunning any enemies that attack empowered thralls. I already brought up a 'soft' sortof limiter for dense macabre spam as a ramping energy cost, so that makes it better useable in momentary bursts and would be theoretically useful to have go for longer if you're still surrounded, but also discourages that behavior by ramping energy cost to what it is now rather than just flat across the board 'this is the most expensive channel i nthe game' which in my opinion is dumb. Sure you discourage use but in that instance WHY HAVE THE ABILITY IF YOU DO NOT WANT US USING IT?

I haven't noticed enemies doing all that much damage to each other anyway so I don't know if having Thralls gain Mesmer Skin will be all that impactful.  Besides, the point of thralls is to distract enemies and act as a resource for Revenant.  That resource being damage potential (Pillars!), and Shields/Health/Mesmer Skin charges.  I also don't see the necessity of a lower Mesmer Skin cost during Danse Macabre, since it's already pretty cheap for what it does.

The way I see it, if Momaw's idea of changing Mesmer Skin to give damage reduction for a few seconds after a charge is expended (but not make him completely invulnerable to damage) were to be made a reality, his abilities would suddenly make more sense together.  His passive would actually be noticeable because your shields can detonate, his 3 would be used more often to restore his Shields and HP, and Rage or Hunter Adrenaline would become viable to use on Revenant.  In addition, I think a lot of people could agree that complete invincibility is a bit strong.  

I agree on giving Danse Macabre a ramping energy cost.  It should not be used as a sustained damage output ability like Mesa's Regulators, Excalibur's Exalted Blade, etc.  It's a room clearing ability that should be used in short bursts. 

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11 minutes ago, Messaiga said:

I haven't noticed enemies doing all that much damage to each other anyway so I don't know if having Thralls gain Mesmer Skin will be all that impactful.  Besides, the point of thralls is to distract enemies and act as a resource for Revenant.  That resource being damage potential (Pillars!), and Shields/Health/Mesmer Skin charges.  I also don't see the necessity of a lower Mesmer Skin cost during Danse Macabre, since it's already pretty cheap for what it does.

 

Thing is i've seen mesmer skin stagger enemies, which I feel expands on what thralls already offer in that they don't just attract enemies but if you reave them they will outright shut enemies down. SO yea instead of trying to use reave to buf enemy damage, you're buffing their cc potential so you or whoever can murder. I do like the idea of thralls taking reduced damage from allies especially if they teleport to you so that you'll always have your entorage of distractions on hand.

Similarly like the idea that thrall pillars only detonate on click/hold behavior of revenant's 4 since that behavior then becomes an option if you need extra burst, but it still exists if needed. As for cheapening mesmer skin. Maybe if his 4 startso ut at the cost it originally had and ramps to current cost leaving it at current cost while in 4 would work. Problem is right now i just see that drain and Ooof man that's brutal.

i just find it comical revenant has a way of outright ignoring damage from any single attack...and still dies from self damage from his signature shotgun. You'd think mesmer skin would protect from those instances, making it a perfect mitigation tool for instances of 'and suddenly mr billy bombard runs right in front of you when the phantasma pops' or 'annie ancient drags you into the lenz bubble.' I would really like mesmer skin protecting from self damage since 'ok fine that negates DE's love affair of self damaging weapons... but that is kinda revenant's thing via mesmer. givingall damage sources the middle finger while mesmer skin is up.'

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