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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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4 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

I'm looking at it from a logical standpoint in looking at revenants 4th ability. It doesn't take much to figure out that its based off of the gantulyst lasers that beam down from the sky but with a twist. Plus the devs intentions of giving revenants 4th lasers was in fact to make him more eidolonn like.

Again, we agree to disagree. Just because someone keeps saying something is logical, doesn't make it so. Most warframes with a theme follow a certain logic, but there's a reason this one is so hotly debated and those ones are not.

Could we agree that there may have been avenues more closely resembling Eidolon attacks/behaviors other than sparkly twurlz?

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Soo, DE, You gave up on this frame already? Because, no changes with this massive feedback that ppl are giving?

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So I have decided to give feedback despite what happened with the last batch, what I said and the possibility that Revenant might not receive anymore "major" changes. I honestly still feel mixed about him, like the concept, but not the execution. 

 

 

Passive

-change his passive to damage reduction to shields. (30, 40 or 50%, unmoddable)

 

Enthrall

Increase cap to 8 or 10, Thralls serve a different purpose than Nekros' shadows, they function in another way and should not be likened to them.

maybe instead of the seeking projectiles with the pillars consider changing it to the pillars attracting enemies towards them (like Mags 2). the projectiles are okay cc, but they kind of work against the pillars by keeping them away from them rather than attracting enemies towards them.

allow pillars to enthrall enemies?

change pillars to the damage adaptation of Dance Macabre (with a status chance).

 

Note: as stated before, I dont like Enthrall. Which is why I'm not suggesting they get reduced damage to allies as others have, I'm not sure if that would be better or worse, it might be problematic, it might help Revenant be more team friendly, I'm not sure.

 

Mesmer Skin

-change Mesmer Skin to only apply to health damage. This is to make the passive useful. (Even if it stays the same as it currently is)

Note: This is to mimic how eidolon health system works where players have to work through their shields in order to get to their weak points and then their health

.

-possibly remove ability to recast?

-possibly allow the stun to be an aoe rather than a single enemy stun?

 

And please fix it

Nullifiers and Ballistas can 1 shot Revenant through Mesmer Skin

Nullifier attacks do not consume Mesmer Skin charges

 

Note: I have found out that the 1 shot issue only applies if you are alone in the mission.

 

 

Reave

-buff lifesteal and shield steal to to 20% vs non thralled targets (instead of leaving it at 40% in the UI just list it at 20% and say its double for thralls)

-allow it to give shields and overshields from non shielded units

-allow Reave to restore Mesmer Skin charges from hitting ANY enemy, not only thralled ones.

-allow multi directional movement. I think this was made possible in 1 hotfix, but it was removed the next. 

-cut the cast time in half

 

 

Dance Macabre

 

-add new mechanic where aiming allows you to focus the beams

-remove overshield mechanic, just leave shield/overshield regen to Reave.

-remove the pillar detonation

-change adaptive damage to infested flesh to do viral damage instead of gas (some infested enemies can negate the effects of toxin damage)

 

please leave this ability in a state where it will not get nerfed in the future.

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Finally got my revenant built and I've been leveling him up but I'm finding playing him is exhausting, not because his kit is bad or his visuals (although other spinning ult revs give me a headache) it's managing his powers. 

Revs power tracking HUD items are on both the top and bottom of the screen, you constantly have to flick your eyes up and Down to manage thrall count and mesmer skin. I'm using a 26 inch monitor and after 20 mins with him my eyes are tired and I don't want to play anymore. 

Could his power HUD items please be better consolidated into one area? 

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In options, there is a way to make the HUD itself smaller meaning, closer to the center but it would be nice if, just like with Nekros' shadows, the number of thralls can be on the ability itself just like mesmer skin is.

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My main issue with Revenant is his 1st and 3rd ability.

While Thralls sounds like a great idea they tend to die quickly. Either my your team or the enemies team. They really don't prove any value for the ability currently. I think making Reventant be more like Alaric in Starcraft 2 - Co-op commander 

Basically he has skills similar to Reventant in that he uses "Acolytes" to essentially power him.

When he takes damage his acolyte kills him self to heal Alarak.  Which I think would be far more useful use of thralls. You create thralls to essentially keep you alive. Anytime you take damage they instnatly die to heal you.

 

I would change Reap ( 3rd ability ) 

To make it more fitting its name. When he dashes he creates a "zone" of ghost hands that come from the ground. that sucks the souls of enemies that walk on it. This "Empowers" revenants damage, getting a damage boost of 3% per enemy that is caught in his hands. If a thrall walks over his Reap the damage boost is 10%. Maximum of upto 300%

Damage stacks last for 7s from the last kill not affected by duration mods. 

 

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As somebody who uses 27" monitors professionally (I'm a print designer) and for gaming purposes at home, if you're having eye-strain from too much movement, sit further back.

I know it's not exactly helpful in the game sense, but if you're close enough to be getting strain from eye-movement, or a headache from spinning lasers, it might be simply that you've got the wrong posture for it ^^

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3 hours ago, Dopekoke said:

In options, there is a way to make the HUD itself smaller meaning, closer to the center but it would be nice if, just like with Nekros' shadows, the number of thralls can be on the ability itself just like mesmer skin is.

That is kind a nuclear solution. Like killing a fly with a flamethrower so hopefully it can just be on or closer to the power bar.

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

As somebody who uses 27" monitors professionally (I'm a print designer) and for gaming purposes at home, if you're having eye-strain from too much movement, sit further back.

I know it's not exactly helpful in the game sense, but if you're close enough to be getting strain from eye-movement, or a headache from spinning lasers, it might be simply that you've got the wrong posture for it ^^

I'm already sitting 2 feet 4 inches away from the monitor I won't be able to read things properly if I sit further away and messing with the dpi settings of fonts kronks up all sorts of things in games.

The flashing lights from the spinning lasers gives me headaches just like eidolon's concentric circle howls and octavias pulsing rings, sitting farther away doesn't help that; wearing sunglasses does a little. I'd assume that's a photosensitivity issue rather than an eye strain issue.

Warframes HUD has always been a tiring one spread out to the four corners like it is with no options to modify locations, but revenants is especially bad because his duration for stuff is pretty low even with primed duration so you have to flip back and forth constantly. 

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Any chance we could get it altered from a flat damage to a percentage of the max health of the enemy that died to produce it? Allows for scaling into later missions and slows things down a bit at earlier levels.

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Honestly, following his HUD is not as bad as Octavia’s. When playing a Survival with her, you would have Numbers all over the Screen. Top, bottom, left side, and right side while you try to pay attention where the enemies are so you don’t get killed and have colors in front of you. 

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Thralls are immune to Saryn's Spores?

Is this a glitch or intentional?

I just got out of an interception game where as Saryn, I was unable to cast spores or spread them to enthralled enemies.

Was actually pretty annoying considering how each new enemy spawn group was almost immediately all thralls, couldn't build up any spore counter that game.

Considering you can damage thralls by other means I'm assuming inability to cast spores on them is a glitch?

Are any other warframe abilities similarly affected?

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2 hours ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Thralls are immune to Saryn's Spores?

Is this a glitch or intentional?

I just got out of an interception game where as Saryn, I was unable to cast spores or spread them to enthralled enemies.

Was actually pretty annoying considering how each new enemy spawn group was almost immediately all thralls, couldn't build up any spore counter that game.

Considering you can damage thralls by other means I'm assuming inability to cast spores on them is a glitch?

Are any other warframe abilities similarly affected?

Oh boo hoo. A saryn has been mildly inconvenienced and had to use their mouse for once.

Serious answer: this may be a good compromise for thralls. Removing passive dmg, but only allowing active. Still doesn't help with all the aoe weapons out there. But still helps. More work still needs to be done. Can't wait to hear an update...

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Il y a 18 heures, Madway7 a dit :

And please fix it

 

Nullifiers and Ballistas can 1 shot Revenant through Mesmer Skin 

Nullifier attacks do not consume Mesmer Skin charges

 

Note: I have found out that the 1 shot issue only applies if you are alone in the mission. 

it's not just nullies and ballistas, it's anything that deals damage on a hit above his total current EHP+shields.

This bug or "feature" makes mesmer skin basicly there to prevent damage at lower to mid levels (and you still risk gettting onshot if you take some damage) but you'll still get oneshot at some point.

(reposting at the end of the thread so that they can hopefully see this and fix it)

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3 hours ago, SSI_Seraph said:

it's not just nullies and ballistas, it's anything that deals damage on a hit above his total current EHP+shields.

This bug or "feature" makes mesmer skin basicly there to prevent damage at lower to mid levels (and you still risk gettting onshot if you take some damage) but you'll still get oneshot at some point.

(reposting at the end of the thread so that they can hopefully see this and fix it)

Oh ok, but the bug definitely seems isolated to being alone. Had a friend come over in the Simulacrum and Mesmer Skin worked fine under the same conditions.

Also tried to solo MOT and had the issues, but with a friend Mesmer Skin worked on everything except the grenades the enemies throw.

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On 2018-09-22 at 4:24 AM, EinheriarJudith said:

i see people still do not understand that EIDOLON is not a faction. it is a type of Sentient. Sentient is a faction it consists of: Oculyst, Battalyst, Conculyst, Mimic, Vomvalyst, Teralyst, Gantulyst, and Hydrolyst.

both Reave and Danse Macabre are vomvalyst and Battalyst skills which are Sentient faction abilities. Enthrall and Mesmer Skin are the vampire skills. the skills fit the theme.

Mesmer skin needs to be able to block more kinds of damage it lets too many random kinds of damage through still to a point where id rather them remove the charges and just make it damage reduction. enthrall for the love of god needs ally damage immunity (dont know why DE is dancing around this). all his skills need animation speed up except DM.

Eidolons are a specific result of a specific event, they are Sentient as in that is what their living parts are; but they are not Sentient as in the faction as a whole, since the mind of the original is destroyed. When we discuss something like moves themed off an Eidolon, it needs to be specific to this essentially "undead Sentient". Unlike Hunhnow who is the whole of the none Eidolon examples in your post, The Eidolons are still living parts of a dead Giant Sentient; Hunhow has a disabled main body but he is fully alive and uses his shards to attack in his stead. Everything that made the Giant Sentient a unique individual is dead, gone boomy from that Void bomb Gara and Unum snuck into its core. Not only that, Eidolons are unique to the Plains, and didn't occur otherwise so we have a very specific organism type broken off from the rest without the upper functioning reasoning of something like Hunhow or Natah. One can't compare what Hunhow's shards can do, as they are not related outside their super family being Sentient.

Reave is a mix of vampire and Vomvalyst charge, doing neither fully; Mesmer skin is trying to evoke the Eidolon defenses if you go for some or the vampire's immunity to normal weapon by going mist form and doing neither fully. Entrall doesn't show any parallel to Eidolons at all, since not only do they lack the upper reasoning to control machinery with the death of their mind, but Sentient have no ability to control organics and so that has to go squarely among vampire theme. The Danse Macabre at best likens to the Gantulyst Disco Ball version of skyfall which doesn't require the Eidolon's input, since its separate. To be fair Mirage imitates this better and came before the Gantulyst. Killing his thralls being at best a reference to again, the Gantulyst's Fire Pillars caused by his version of the Ground Stomp. Not really equivalent but vampires tend to burn in sunlight so maybe that is a dual reasoning for it.

I could agree with Mesmer Skin needing to block more damage sources and that currently too much gets through. Perhaps Iron Skin would be better, perhaps this version if improved would offer something that Iron Skin can't; complete negation of one attack no matter how strong (or weak) giving it an odd weakness to rapid fire sources but great staying power against slow semi auto sources. I would also agree on it needing a faster animation or the ability to recast for refreshing if nothing else as enemies are quite able to rip down the skin within a quick volley during the cast animation alone.

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I was able to unthralled inderectly my Smeeta: First, cast skill 1 on a bursa. In the same time, Bursa use his shock wave, Smeeta is unthralled. I'm not sure if there is a specific timing needed.

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20 energy per second is too much. For anyone who wants to use the ability consistently they have to use both efficiency mods just to bring it down to a manageable state. It’s unecessary and heavy handed and with the massive reduction of duration fleeting expertise gives it actively hinders his other ability’s.

reduce the Energy cost to 15. That’s all I ask.

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So you need to mod for a stat to make a specific cost more manageable. Further, a mod that has a downside negatively affects other abilities.

Is that correct?

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vor 26 Minuten schrieb (XB1)GearsMatrix301:

 

reduce the Energy cost to 15. That’s all I ask.

Build health, Rage/Hunter and QT if you wish to (actual alternative to the mist eather way)

You'll not even run out of energy pressing the fire button like that....

I've had beef with a few things about him so far but the efficiency definitly wasn't among them. Plus there's no benefit to anything but balancing his duration... reave becomes uncontrollable with even 150% duration.

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb Airwolfen:

DE does not want people to be in danse permanently. So the high drain is just doing its job.

Oh you can allready but you need to build for it of course.. what can't really be the issue with the minor stat requirements of his.

I mean range? Unnecessary. You can even go negative and don't feel much of a difference. Duration? I've tried narrow mindet but decidet against it cause reave threw me across the map. That leaves you with stats, efficiency and strength.... basicly a build that lets you channel danse at all times no problem.

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28 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

DE does not want people to be in danse permanently. So the high drain is just doing its job.

Well it’s feels more like a deterrent from ever using the ability.

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9 hours ago, Madway7 said:

Oh ok, but the bug definitely seems isolated to being alone. Had a friend come over in the Simulacrum and Mesmer Skin worked fine under the same conditions.

Also tried to solo MOT and had the issues, but with a friend Mesmer Skin worked on everything except the grenades the enemies throw.

I did some testing to see what you said is actually the case. From my test I can definately confirm that this is the case.

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