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[DE]Marcus

[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread

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enthrall - pillars should release more projectiles when hit by danse macabre and not disappear

mesmer skin - able to cast while sprinting and charges recharge 1 every 5 seconds

reave - same animation speed as slash dash and put struck targets to sleep

danse macabre - enable jumping and make it able to destroy nullifier bubbles again

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DE at it's finest, completely ignoring all the things people pointed out, and just doing tweaks that NOONE wanted. Also, buff nulls, buff them more, make them oneshotnoscope every player that enters same room through walls while having total invuln for every weapon except I dunno, hmm... nuke from orbit?

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Il y a 7 heures, Madway7 a dit :

 

@Aeon94 @Maryph Revenant is not completely immune to status effects while Mesmer Skin is active, but yeah Mesmer Skin does make that change largely redundant. (Not completely, but for thr most oart yes)

I'm not sure what the full context required is, but stuff like toxin clouds still go through it (forgot to test mustalist moa tar), but its quite interesting since he can ignore laser barrier knockdowns.

(Also the UI for status effects might not work well for him, last time I played him I got toxin procced while in mesmer skin, but the toxin icon wasnt there eventho he was taking health dmg from it.)

 

Yep, toxin clouds goes through it, but it's not considered as a status effect, it's just a floating DoT.  Maybe a test against a nox would answer that question ? I'll test
Puncture, slash and other status effect are nullified by mesmer skin...

But seriously, I've said it many times in the past as an idea (and some others pointed it too), but what they need to his one is to

Remove the timer and make it spread on death much like saryn's spores, if no ennemies are around the enthralled target when he dies, then you need to recast it in order to spread it again

OR

Leave the timer, and make the thralls DIE AT THE END OF IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
And let missiles form the pillars enthrall targets.


His passive need to be changed, really, it's useless, I've never been out of shileds with rev.

What it needs is maybe a passive attached to his health like an adaptation 
For each percentage of health loss, he gains a percentage of adaptation, making him more resistant against health damage.

OR 

A passive tied to his thralls (but they first need to REALLY REWORK THEM)
For each thralls active you gain and amount of health, something like that.

Seriously, the community have already help into finding some great ideas for his kit, the only thing they need to do is to read us !
It's not even like we were complaining without finding a proper solution...

Right now, as someone said, it seems like someone is really angry about rev, and just want his death, his nerf are pointles, really, why do you nerf a frame that is already on the verge of death anyway ???

Edit: Actually, I think status effect are bug with mesmer skin, sometimes they bypass it, and sometimes they don't, I Tried against infected toxin clouds, and it's totally random some are bypassing mesmer skin, and some don't 

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2 hours ago, Maryph said:

His passive need to be changed, really, it's useless, I've never been out of shileds with rev

What it needs is maybe a passive attached to his health like an adaptation 
For each percentage of health loss, he gains a percentage of adaptation, making him more resistant against health damage.

OR 

A passive tied to his thralls (but they first need to REALLY REWORK THEM)
For each thralls active you gain and amount of health, something like that.

Seriously, the community have already help into finding some great ideas for his kit, the only thing they need to do is to read us !
It's not even like we were complaining without finding a proper solution...

Right now, as someone said, it seems like someone is really angry about rev, and just want his death, his nerf are pointles, really, why do you nerf a frame that is already on the verge of death anyway ???

Edit: Actually, I think status effect are bug with mesmer skin, sometimes they bypass it, and sometimes they don't, I Tried against infected toxin clouds, and it's totally random some are bypassing mesmer skin, and some don't 

Inb4 immunity to status effects was a bug and they patch that.

 

About the passives, what you suggested would be useless too.

Keep in mind how Mesmer Skin currently works. So any suggestion for a passive that's "Rev takes dmg or gets healed" would be useless thanks to the current way Mesmer Skin works since in the ideal playstyle you barely take damage or none at all. (Preferrably none)

Also tying it to health dmg would mean you are going to die trying to get any resistance at all without a health/armor buff, but I go under the assumption that his base stats won't get touched.

I would prefer what was suggested by me and others before, but maybe with Adaptation instead of all encompassing shield DR as his passive

(I tested Adaptation on Harrow and honestly even at 90% DR to the damage type of the 1 enemy I spawned it was still pretty bad. He took way more shield damage than I had expected.)

In case you didn't see, since the first set of changes it's been suggested that Mesmer Skin only block damage to his health, that way his shields act as gating to Mesmer Skin and Mesmer Skin acts as gating to his health.

There are many ways they can go about make getting shields/overshields actually worthwhile on him after that. Like allowing Reave to steal shields/overshields from anything.

Or thralls act as a passive shield/overshield restore (like vomvalysts except not random)

They can make it so that losing a charge means you get an aoe enthrall.

But suggesting anything at this point feels pointless...

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OK Big one:

While I like Arbitrations in general. Some mission types need to be cut down so that they aren't slow as molasses compared to others.

Rotation A: Two intercept waves, Ten minutes survival, 200 cryiotic (I think.) Or ten waves of defense.
Am I the only one that feels like defense takes forever out of all of these?

The changes to revenant are nice, but: 

  • If thrall dies before the casting animation is finished, just go ahead and make the pillar. That gives it some use even when 'oh hey i'm cast- Rhino got 'em.' Another minor change that would make a big difference is any cast of thrall resets the timer on *all* of your thralls. Sure in group play they don't last long, but there are situations such as end of defense/interception waves or out in the plains where 'oh crap how long has the oldest thrall been- *now getting shot at by ex-thrall.* Being able to aim at nothing or when at full thrall count to refresh everything's timers makes thrall easier to manage and far more valuable.
  • Still displeased with the channel cost for dense macabre. Why not instead pul an ember and have it ramp up from its original cost to its current cost with an associated bump in power? This gives people a reason to use it tactically, weighing 'do I use it to burst or do i just eat the energy cost?'
  • Bring back the 'bug' where we could fly with reave. That made it a fairly solid mobility tool in addition to what is NOW a good way of going 'oh you wanted to put status pros on me? return *to sender.* That change right there genuinely makes it a solid part of his kit. Might not be the most glamorous thing in the world, but it fits the ability's core purpose of 'NOPE I'm leaving, Bye.' Leaving so hard the status procs got left behind.
  • Am annoyed dense macabre doesn't bust nullifier bubbles, but I figured that was a bug anyway since 'why would a warframe power hurt nullifier bubble that is anti-warframe power?

Since operator suits are confirmed to be bugged will refrain from commenting. Known issue, etc.

I love the new toy we got from Chimera. This thing is going to be nutty when directional slams become a thing.

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Il y a 7 heures, MarrikBroom a dit :

 

  • Am annoyed dense macabre doesn't bust nullifier bubbles, but I figured that was a bug anyway since 'why would a warframe power hurt nullifier bubble that is anti-warframe power?

 

Then again, many warframes power are hurting nullies shields, like volt's 4
But it's not like reverting this change would make him useful at this point ...

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I'm 99% sure they nerfed Dance Macabre just so it wouldn't hurt arby drones in Elite Alerts due to spaghetti coding. 

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after playing with him a  bit heres my feed back

passive: poor very situational at best new enemies move into range to attack before any benefit this gives could be relevant  MY SUGGESTION: have revenant passively absorb HP and shields from his thralls 

 

1 ENTHRALL: A really cool concept but with some flaws the biggest is allies tend to kill them moments after creation when I think of using thralls I imagine a small army of minions synergizing with their leader    MY SUGGESTION: Turn off team fire for thralls once they reach the "infection" cap have them build a energy meter "Sentient energy" from the damage they do to enemies that can be used to power up/work with revs other abilities.   On death they produce a single aoe explosion that damages enemies.   also perhaps make it channeled? hate refreshing the ability constantly when they could just keep infecting as they die while I let the energy leak out

 

2 MESMER SKIN: pretty neat idea but done better by other frames rhino, nidus, and zephyr to name a few have amazing protection buffs a few hits of immunity in a game where enemies have machine guns?  MY SUGGESTION: building off the skill above using this skill would convert a portion of the above mentioned "sentient energy" into a shield since its based off the damage done by your thralls this would scale really well as long as you have enough energy handle incoming damage "as well as a cost to maintain the shield that scales up over time in use to avoid people trying to stack endless shields while active you are protected from debuffs" 

 

3 REAVE: for this I see harvesting "sentient energy" from enemies hit and killing/converting thralls hit into over health,overshield and a small energy refund for each thrall hit.

[I realize this idea is way out their so I'm putting it separate but what if revenant could transform into s small version of a eidolon or something like that using his consumed thralls to determine his strength and powered up abilities? just a neat idea a small eidolon sounds like a lot of fun to play probably to far out their but why not share the idea XD]

 

4 DANSE MACABRE: Its a little press 4 to win but not bad maybe could burn the above mentioned energy to apply its boost mode or even to replace the energy cost all together?

 

Please let me know what you think of my ideas and have fun!

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1. The Thralls need some damage resistance or other form of mitigation to make them usable at all. They don't live long enough to set up for putting pillars in useful areas, or to use for recharging with Reave, or to use for shields and exploding pillars with Danse. They're far too unreliable. On top of everything else, it's a clunky cast.

2. Mesmer needs damage gating, even if it's only a half second pause with some damage resistance. Just something to keep from dumping all your charges when mobbed by a gang. It also needs the decimals rounded, no idea why it's fractional in the first place.

3. Reave should be able to recharge shields from any enemies, not just ones with shields themselves. He's such a good platform for a shield tank, it's a shame to make that so unreliable.

4. My only note on Danse is that the overshield orbs should be granting minimum 250 shields per, closer to 500 would be more realistically effective. 50 shields means nothing in this game, and with Thralls being so inconsistent to begin with it makes them even less rewarding.

Revenant could be so much fun if he had just a little love and attention. He plays very well overall, but the math doesn't support the mechanics.

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The focus of his tweaks seem to be on Reave for some reason. Sure it's a mobility skill that feels bland at face value, but with Enthrall being extra spammy and its pillars blowing up prematurely from player weapons, that feels like a more pressing issue to me.

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My review of Rev; please note it is a little more of a partial rework with a focus on the Eidolon side of Rev alongside thralls being disposable units.

Passive:
For a Warframe that doesn't seek to lose shields due to his second ability, the passive is certainly lackluster for the small AoE it has.
He is a caster based offensive AoE frame - the original passive of heal based on damage works well. Perhaps in addition to this, add "Gain X energy whilst above Y health and Z shields" to further focus this niche of having thralls out to do the dirty work whilst Revenant deals damage unhindered.

1. Seeking Bullets:
The Eidolon's homing projectiles

Think of Nyx's psychic bolts/magic missiles - Revenant sends X projectiles; gaining combo meter like Atlas. Reducing cost whilst increasing amount of projectiles sent when tapped consecutively.
Energy pillars will send out a blast and blast periodically after being struck by the bolt.

2. Mesmer Skin:
Kept largely the same with the exception of the interaction with foes.
Foes that attack are now instantly entralled to Revenant (up to X thralls (Str)).
Thralls are disarmed, seeking melee combat.
Thralls are now surrounded by the damaging energy pillar.
The energy pillar consumes 5% (eff) per second (dur) - converting consumed health into pillar damage. At base a thrall will last 20 seconds before dying and leaving behind a pillar as another thrall takes its place.
Allies kill thralls (much like Nekros' SotD), thralls must lose health to die.
Mesmer skin will now regenerate 1 charge per X seconds (dur).

3. Reave:
There is a lack of control with the ability.
Giving it controls akin to Excalibur's slash dash would certainly make it more useable.

With thralls now being properly disposable units. The manner of going to and from cannon fodder seems a little lacking for an overlord.
In the same sense of Equinox's 3 - reave now siphons health and shield within the area surrounding Revenant.
Holding the ability will now send Revenant towards the destination selected in a more purpose driven manner.

4. Danse Macabre:
The adaptive damage is the best part of this ability but it is also one of the most boring abilities in game and doesn't mimic the Eidolon's as much as it could.

Perhaps using the Gantulyst's Super God Ray out of his hand, Revenant could be precise with damage applying the new continuous beam weapon changed to this new ultimate.
Clicking alt fire allows for placement of energy pillars at the discretion of the player to use alongside the pillars from current and dead thralls - further emphasizing positioning and area control.

Use of the beam would follow that of Ivara, allowing for regeneration of energy whilst being strategic in combat.
Like any other exalted weapon (for lack of a defined weapon as such, Revenant's hand out be used), it can be modded using Primary mods and effected by Arcanes of that nature.

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Mesmer skin really needs a grace period before stacks can be consumed again now that elite alerts have enemies with machine guns that ignore the stun via the arby drone. 

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Enthrall: Thralled enemies take a long  time before they start attacking or don't even attack at all. I don't mind that we can kill the thralled enemies but maybe instead of them taking on friendly fire, what if they could be detonated or sacrificed instead of being killed by fellow players?

Mesmer skin: its great concept but more base stacks to it or invulnerability when it is depleted would be better I feel. How about auto enthrall on an enemy if you are not already at max stats along with the stun effect.

Reave:  I barely use this ability, feels clunky. 

ultimate: what if enemies killed add back to your mesmer stacks?

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Right, there's a lot of potential in this frame,but he is currently very limited.

1. Enthrall

I mean, c'mon, the thralls can be killed by other players? They get insta killed as soon as you enthrall them- not helped by the super slow cast times

If thralls are gonna be useful, they need to get a stat boost (like nekros's living dead) or you need to double the number AGAIN. This could also benefit from a 'hold 1 to enthrall in a AOE radius (at higher energy cost)

2. Mesmer Skin

Again, lot's of potential, but still very flawed and kinda useless- there seriously needs to be a invulnerability period. Enemies with machine guns shred mesmer skin, stun or no.

the invulnerability period would not be affected by mods, for balance reasons. 

3. Reave

very cool idea on paper, in real life does not work as well as it should due to the clunky and slow cast times- needs to be almost instant for fluidity.

A suggestion is that it could be a channeled ability- take x energy/s to use until deactivated, and can still be steered

4. Danse Macabre

this ability hits the nail on the head. Very very good- the only thing that the so far balance changes have fixed completely.

 

Passive: Retribution

I agree with the others- nice nod to eidolons, but ultimately useless- maybe a random dmg resistance once a match? 

 

Stats: high shields are kinda useless, health and armor needs a buff until mesmer skin is fixed

 

Overall, revenant is a interesting concept that is hurt by his 1 & 2, + the insanely slow cast times on his 1, 2 & 3.

If these things are fixed then revenant will probs be my fav- too limited atm to be useful 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Onyxeagle171 said:

Right, there's a lot of potential in this frame,but he is currently very limited.

1. Enthrall

I mean, c'mon, the thralls can be killed by other players? They get insta killed as soon as you enthrall them- not helped by the super slow cast times

If thralls are gonna be useful, they need to get a stat boost (like nekros's living dead) or you need to double the number AGAIN. This could also benefit from a 'hold 1 to enthrall in a AOE radius (at higher energy cost)

2. Mesmer Skin

Again, lot's of potential, but still very flawed and kinda useless- there seriously needs to be a invulnerability period. Enemies with machine guns shred mesmer skin, stun or no.

the invulnerability period would not be affected by mods, for balance reasons. 

3. Reave

very cool idea on paper, in real life does not work as well as it should due to the clunky and slow cast times- needs to be almost instant for fluidity.

A suggestion is that it could be a channeled ability- take x energy/s to use until deactivated, and can still be steered

4. Danse Macabre

this ability hits the nail on the head. Very very good- the only thing that the so far balance changes have fixed completely.

 

Passive: Retribution

I agree with the others- nice nod to eidolons, but ultimately useless- maybe a random dmg resistance once a match? 

 

Stats: high shields are kinda useless, health and armor needs a buff until mesmer skin is fixed

 

Overall, revenant is a interesting concept that is hurt by his 1 & 2, + the insanely slow cast times on his 1, 2 & 3.

If these things are fixed then revenant will probs be my fav- too limited atm to be useful 

 

 

I just realised something about his thralls- in contradiction to what I said for his 1, I don't think that thralls should be given better stats- they are made to die, but I still don't think allies should be able to kill thralls, and the number of thralls NEEDS to be increased to 12-14- as mentioned in previous comments. 

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So can someone explain this to me?

Are we like, done with Rev's kit? People are happy? Please tell me what modes you are enjoying Rev in. I'm assuming def, mobile def, and interception?

I still don't get how a kit that counters itself is "fun". I read posts like "he has a shield and he can cc people, you should be happy", but I tend not to listen to idiots stuck in a loop.

I was hoping his synergies would end up.... Synergizing. Instead we got some (albeit) cool Reave tweaks, but like.... Am I seriously supposed to just Enthrall and Reave on repeat? It's not exactly fun here. And then still, god forbid I want to use his 4.... There go all my thralls and pillars. Sick!

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23 hours ago, Fonk said:

So can someone explain this to me?

Are we like, done with Rev's kit? People are happy? Please tell me what modes you are enjoying Rev in. I'm assuming def, mobile def, and interception?

I still don't get how a kit that counters itself is "fun". I read posts like "he has a shield and he can cc people, you should be happy", but I tend not to listen to idiots stuck in a loop.

I was hoping his synergies would end up.... Synergizing. Instead we got some (albeit) cool Reave tweaks, but like.... Am I seriously supposed to just Enthrall and Reave on repeat? It's not exactly fun here. And then still, god forbid I want to use his 4.... There go all my thralls and pillars. Sick!

this^

no, people that actually give a **** are not happy.  I'm assuming most just either figure nothing will change, or are already tired of giving feedback with silence and/or oddball negative changes in return.

Don't listen to those telling you to just be happy.  If you're not happy, speak up and I encourage you to keep doing so, because this is a place for feedback and if everyone is "just being happy" and not giving feeback, DE has nothing to use from the players other than silence ... which tells them "keep it up you're doing great"

Myself, I don't look at Revenant and go... dang.. good job there DE.  

I look at Revenant and go... he's a mess of ideas, and his theme has some of the most potential in the game... how did we end up with this?  not to mention you already have literal eidolon blueprints to follow or use in reference for an eidolon themed kit.

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I looked at all the changes and I still did not see any changes to the revenants thrall ability do ally weapons and abilities still completely vaporize his thralls making the ability completely useless or did they actually listen to feedback and change that already?

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Hello everyone,

 

I don't write on forums at all, but since I like the concept of the Revenant frame I would like to post my comments.

Revenant actually has a lot of potential, it is a good frame right now but not exeptional. You see, the unique thing about him is actually the weakest part of his kit. What I mean by that is his enthrall an mesmer abilities. The other two I will not mention because the are a weaker form of other warframe abilities which can nuke much faster than him. 

 

First, mesmer skin is a controvetial ability. While the concept is relativelty good, practically It has very low performance while fighting a lot of enemies or enemies with high attack speed, since it can be taken down very fast. To remedy that situation, without making the ability overpowered, I would like to propose a 1-2 second window of invulnerability per 1 stack of mesmer skin which has been taken down. Additionally, to not go overboard, we can disable recasting the ability while the stack are on. It will fulfill its purpose, while being usefull at every stage of the game. Revenant is not that tanky, so I think it will be pretty balanced. With this we got like max. around 14 sec on immunity in total, this is not that much, but still very usefull. If it is too much, we can decrease the number of stacks available to 3-4 max.

Second, enthral is an awesome idea and concept, but very difficult to balance. While on lower lvl enemies it can seem to be nearly usless, since everything dies so fast and the pace of the game is very dynamic. While on higher lvl enemies sometimes it can be very effective. we could remedy that situation with added resistances to the enthralled minions. For example flat 50-75%, but only to other players and enemies. This way the Revenant will be able to dispose of a minion if he so desires, while their survivability will be enchanced against external damage. I wouldnt buff/touch other things, since if you enthrall a couple of eximus enemies it can be a little too much, especially on defense and other more stationary missions. But if this would be too much, we could nerf other things like the max enthral minions, duration etc.

 

Those are my thoughts for now, what do you think about it? Do you agree with me?

I doubt any dev will read this in this ocean of messages, but still I wanted to leave something behind here, since I got to like this warframe.

Sorry for any typos.

 

Cheers.

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I'm hopeful that they will come back here and look through what people have been suggesting. There is already a very simple synergy that can be happening and i'm surprised it hasn't been worked on yet. These are some changes that have been said multiple times by many people already but I guess i'll combine what I have seen.

I have no ideas for his passive so I will just leave it out

  • Enthrall

                - Suggestions I've seen and liked are either AoE, make it chain through a couple enemies, or spread on death (similar to spores), if nothing is going to                      be done about how quickly they die, then I would really like to see a "spread on death", this will keep the ability going more efficiently imo.

  • Mesmer Skin

               - First of all get rid of the decimal point please.

               - Add a 1-2 second invulnerability period between each charge of Mesmer Skin

               - Make the enemy into a thrall automatically

               - Remove recasting of Mesmer Skin if you have to

  • Reave

                - I really like it as is but i've seen some people say more control of it, like aiming up and going up, etc, I don't see how it can hurt the ability at all

          This is where the synergy happens, It's easier and faster to enthrall enemies so when we Reave through them we get the full benefits of this ability instead of having to wait for the enemies to enthrall each other or having to enthrall them one by one. We also get a charge of mesmer skin back for each enemy that we go through so we are constantly recharging our Mesmer Skin and dealing damage to the same enemies. This is why I like the spore effect on enthrall more, the basic combo would go something like Mesmer Skin > Enthrall > Kill and Spread or > Reave if charges are being used from enemies further away. I just think it would make you constantly use your abilities more, I don't know what changes could be made to his 4 to help with synergy but I know I don't like destroying my pillars. reeeee 

Revenant has way too much potential to leave him where he is now DE, please do something!

 

I'm not sure if someone has written the same thing as me before because i'm honestly too lazy to go through 50 pages just to check (maybe DE too).

 

 

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On 2018-10-12 at 11:39 PM, KenthNisshoku said:

enthrall - pillars should release more projectiles when hit by danse macabre and not disappear

I read through this thread again and I'd like to buy this

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Warframe PS4 here. Ive been playing around with Rev here for a bit and I've noticed a couple of things from playing with him and trying a couple different mod selections. 

Regarding his first ability, Enthrall, I've noticed the duration to be a bit low even if I have modded towards duration. I believe making each instance to be its own for all the thralls. Example I'll use being with the base duration of 30 seconds. Enthrall casted on Enemy 1 starts the duration of 30 seconds, Enemy 1 attacks Enemy 2 a little bit later. Enemy 2 now has been enthralled with the duration of 30 seconds, Enemy 1's instance of duration hasnt changed other then the time changing. No matter how much duration you mod Rev for, it ultimately becomes useless if all instances disappear at the same time as the intial cast of entrall even with an increased horde cap of 100 or 1000. This will still allow for energy regeneration and keep the thrall numbers going while ensuring that the thralls wont all revert back to attacking Rev at once.

On his third ability, Reave, the energy wave of it would work wonders with a change to it being a hold to charge ability, while making the single press of it to be something simular to Trinitys Link ability only using the healing value already assigned. This change might require Reave to be changed from being duration based to using range. Allowing for a equal measurement of increasing the insances that would potentially be active for Enthrall but any value affecting range would either increase or decrease the amount of possible health and shield that can be regenerated.

I base all of current possible optimizations on the thrall horde not receiving a buff, (to keep Nekros in that regard; quality vs quanity) not getting an increased horde count, and to prevent the amount of potential problems that might arise.

Thanks for reading. -MS

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Daily reminder that just because Garuda is out doesn't mean rebbenant doesn't need some tweaks in his synergy. 

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On 2018-08-31 at 9:33 AM, GPrime96 said:

Why Enthrall them when you can just kill them with your Weapons?

really? you saying that there is no point in which your weapons stop being effective? at least against things like nox? the ability to effectively nullify an entire group of enemies at high levels to allow for revives and even just a reload break, is indispensable if you ask me. 

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