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Secondaries need a new punch through mod


calliph0re
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Metal Auger, Seeking Force, and Seeker are all outdated and cost way too much capacity for what they do. However, while Metal Auger and Seeking Force have two solid replacements, namely Shred for rifles, Seeking Fury for shotguns, and Vigilante Offence for both, Seeker has exactly zero, which means I have to use this crappy mod on just about every secondary I own. Could we get a dual-stat 11 capacity costing punch through mod for secondaries like both primary types do, like PT/mag size or PT/status chance for example? Anything that isn't absolutely useless as a secondary stat would do, just give non-explosive secondaries a cheaper, more useful way to add group clearing potential.

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the game would be better off without the cheaper options for Punch-Through existing for any Guns in the first place(yes, Shred and Seeking Fury shouldn't exist). Punch-Through is a very powerful, valuable effect, and so the Cost should reflect that.

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Le 27/08/2018 à 12:11, taiiat a dit :

the game would be better off without the cheaper options for Punch-Through existing for any Guns in the first place(yes, Shred and Seeking Fury shouldn't exist). Punch-Through is a very powerful, valuable effect, and so the Cost should reflect that.

I agree but at this point it's not really a discussion we can have when DE decided to even prime one such mod... I'd rather have secondaries not get shafted as much tbh. 

It won't even upset any kind of balance since the large majority of people take YT and streamer's words as the Bible and almost none of them uses punchthrough because it would make them do smaller numbers in the epeen race... Why would any sane person not use on anything that isn't AoE or has it already is beyond me. 

Edited by Autongnosis
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There... Isn't that much reason to use punch through on most weapons, though, if you're not fighting Infested. Sure, it's super helpful 50% of the time and there's absolute value to it because the grineer love you use the tactical conga line, but not more value than just about anything else that'd go in that slot, it's definitely not a must have.

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2 hours ago, Julian_Skies said:

There... Isn't that much reason to use punch through on most weapons, though, if you're not fighting Infested. Sure, it's super helpful 50% of the time and there's absolute value to it because the grineer love you use the tactical conga line, but not more value than just about anything else that'd go in that slot, it's definitely not a must have.

inevitably pretty all the Enemies you see is coming in either a line, or some sort of blob shape.
your other options for 99% of Weapons in that last Slot sans Rivens is like, 8,10,12% extra Damage. not really something to get super excited about. compared to taking out all of those Enemies at once. or taking them out before they enter the room. or not having to reposition if they aren't currently in clear sight and may be behind partial obstructions.

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No "easy" punch through mod for Secondaries is very intentional by DE. In general, secondaries have been designed to excel in burst single target DPS to compliment primaries, not replace them. If you give them an easy punch through than they will outclass primary weapons in nearly all regards rather than just their (already very large) niche.

This is one of the few areas DE has shown restraint with throwing new mods at us.

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20 hours ago, taiiat said:

inevitably pretty all the Enemies you see is coming in either a line, or some sort of blob shape.
your other options for 99% of Weapons in that last Slot sans Rivens is like, 8,10,12% extra Damage. not really something to get super excited about. compared to taking out all of those Enemies at once. or taking them out before they enter the room. or not having to reposition if they aren't currently in clear sight and may be behind partial obstructions.

Hrm... I've been doing calculations ever since you answered me and I can't seem to reach the same numbers as you. That final mod is giving me +28%,+50%,+30% with a variety of choices (Augur Pact, 90% element, Expel), both on a crit build (the three standard mods, plus the two crit mods and two 90%s) and a status build (four dualstats plus three standard). Using the Prisma Twin Gremlins as calculation base but a change in values doesn't changes the relative values.

Where did you pull those +8%/+10%/+12% values from? Not saying punch through isn't worth the same as the values I came up with, saying it's worth the same, really.

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2 hours ago, Julian_Skies said:

Hrm... I've been doing calculations ever since you answered me and I can't seem to reach the same numbers as you. That final mod is giving me +28%,+50%,+30% with a variety of choices (Augur Pact, 90% element, Expel), both on a crit build (the three standard mods, plus the two crit mods and two 90%s) and a status build (four dualstats plus three standard). Using the Prisma Twin Gremlins as calculation base but a change in values doesn't changes the relative values.

Where did you pull those +8%/+10%/+12% values from? Not saying punch through isn't worth the same as the values I came up with, saying it's worth the same, really.

non Hybrid Weapons, vs Armor. using only general purpose Mods (making for no Acolyte Mods or Anti-Faction Mods).
so whichever 'little bit more Damage' Mod we'd be putting on at that point, would only be increasing actual Damage by a sliver because most of the Damage being added wouldn't be strong vs that Armor Type.

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On 2018-08-27 at 12:11 PM, taiiat said:

the game would be better off without the cheaper options for Punch-Through existing for any Guns in the first place(yes, Shred and Seeking Fury shouldn't exist). Punch-Through is a very powerful, valuable effect, and so the Cost should reflect that.

lol no 

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On 2018-08-27 at 11:28 AM, --PV--CommissarNazbol said:

PT/mag size or PT/status chance for example?

Agree completely, and both sound good to me.

 

On 2018-08-27 at 12:11 PM, taiiat said:

the game would be better off without the cheaper options for Punch-Through existing for any Guns in the first place(yes, Shred and Seeking Fury shouldn't exist). Punch-Through is a very powerful, valuable effect, and so the Cost should reflect that.

We're playing a game where radial AoE is so prevalent as to make whole classes of weapons lackluster by comparison. I've been inactive for over a year and this has not gotten better at all. Yet here you are speaking out against the dual stat PT mods, and people seem to agree with that. It boggles the mind.

Yes, PT should not be too cheap. But it is very much necessary to have good options.

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On 2018-08-27 at 11:28 AM, --PV--CommissarNazbol said:

 like PT/mag size or PT/status chance

2 of the current Nightmare mods for secondaries (Ice Storm and Stunning Speed) are both a tiny bit subpar imo, so if not introducing new ones, I could see either of those revamped. For example:

  • Ice Storm Bulletstorm / Leadstorm = +40% magazine capacity, +Xm Punchthrough
  • Stunning Speed (Unrelenting?) Blitz = +40% reloadspeed, +Xm Punchthrough
    or
  • (Stunning?) Speed Propulsion =  +40% status, +Xm Punchthrough
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