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Suggestions to fix "Nerf Nukers VS. Put your own group together by fixing each mission type


Klokwerkaos
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3 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

I'm fairly certain you're intentionally missing the point.

nerfs feel bad and don't work in the long run.  providing more options for engaging gameplay is almost always good.

I fail to see how you don't recognize this but I'm not going to argue with someone that is moving goal posts and shifts the focal point to something irrelevant.

Still I'd love to hear what rivens help you clear out the rooms with abilities mentioned above.

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DE's solution to army of one is the nerf hammer.  Always has been and always will be, for one reason - they explicitly WANT us to play with people of all levels.  

I kind of understand their stance too... there's already a select few elitists (thankfully not bad in this game) - but as soon as you start trying create legitimate gaps in content based on MR level is gonna open a can of elitism worms.  I can imagine rampant mission toxicity.  "Go do your noob objective over there and leave this for me" being just one of the 1000s of crap dialogues that would ensue.  

Even if you do it to try to make it easier for lowbies to participate, there will always be some who will be frustrated by stronger players.  😕

Edited by (PS4)lagrue
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

DE's solution to army of one is the nerf hammer.  Always has been and always will be, for one reason - they explicitly WANT us to play with people of all levels.  

I kind of understand their stance too... there's already a select few elitists (thankfully not bad in this game) - but as soon as you start trying create legitimate gaps in content based on MR level is gonna open a can of elitism worms.

But is it a good solution?

So far it has proven to solve very little.  I don't see why my solutions don't still fit into the view you are taking.  In my scenarios players still play together.  Gated content already exists as it is.  I think you're proposing something is a problem when it's not actually a problem that is related.

Some people are jerks.  Some of those jerks play warframe.  Some of them are elitists and it doesn't matter what gating you put in or don't put in that attitude will still be present.

Solutions to fix the gameplay however, that engage the player on different levels, would go a long way to solve much in my opinion.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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Just now, Klokwerkaos said:

But is it a good solution?

So far it has proven to solve very little.  I don't see why my solutions don't still fit into the view you are taking.  In this scenario players still play together.

I hear ya - it's not a good solution they have - but I do think there's some considerations to take into account for yours as well:  

But let's just look at your Capture.  What happens when the MR5 fails his capture, the entire mission fails leaving 3 p'd off MR25s?  Eventually somebody is gonna send hate messages.  Requiring the participation of the lower players could in turn handicap the higher level players, especially if the lower person is taking on something not suitable for the level and is inevitable to fail their task.  Unique capture targets and participation requirements like "minimum kills" all have the potential for this.  

Now I can only speak for myself here, and I shudder saying this as a former Ember main - but I would rather be nerfed than face consistent mission fails because I WASNT the one to carry the mission.   It's selfish - but I would rather be the Army of One than fail missions just to shoehorn in some lowbie participation. 

My personal stance was that the real solution was always that DE should spread their game's rewards out better.  If they want high MR players to stop stomping down Venus, Mercury and Earth - then maybe they should stop developing 70% of their content for those venues.  We have yet another open world coming for a crap low level planet... we're going to see more disgruntled lowbies very soon - and that's the direct result of DE wanting everything to be accessible for the "first time player" who may or may not end up spending crazy amounts of money on the game.  

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

I hear ya - it's not a good solution they have - but I do think there's some considerations to take into account for yours as well:  

But let's just look at your Capture.  What happens when the MR5 fails his capture, the entire mission fails leaving 3 p'd off MR25s?  Eventually somebody is gonna send hate messages.  Requiring the participation of the lower players could in turn handicap the higher level players, especially if the lower person is taking on something not suitable for the level and is inevitable to fail their task.  Unique capture targets and participation requirements like "minimum kills" all have the potential for this.  

Now I can only speak for myself here, and I shudder saying this as a former Ember main - but I would rather be nerfed than face consistent mission fails because I WASNT the one to carry the mission.   It's selfish - but I would rather be the Army of One than fail missions just to shoehorn in some lowbie participation. 

My personal stance was that the real solution was always that DE should spread their game's rewards out better.  If they want high MR players to stop stomping down Venus, Mercury and Earth - then maybe they should stop developing 70% of their content for those venues.  We have yet another open world coming for a crap low level planet... we're going to see more disgruntled lowbies very soon - and that's the direct result of DE wanting everything to be accessible for the "first time player" who may or may not end up spending crazy amounts of money on the game.  

The ideas as presented were put in form for brevity.

Contingencies can be put in place to solve the situation for the MR 5... you could have him fail the mission and leave the rest to finish.  You could make the target available when he is downed.  You could mark it for everyone when it's attacked by the player or if all other targets are extinguished or if 5 min passes... these things are all possibilities, what is best would require some play testing to determine what is most "fun" for a diverse play group and listen to feedback.  perhaps the best idea is one I didn't mention... who knows, we'd have to look into it further.  I don't intend them to be complete game designs... if DE wants me to design the whole thing they can tell me and offer me a dollar, it's not like they can't reach me.

I would also rather go to carry than go to fail... but the facts are that this is something DE has fought against, and I think after all this time I'm pretty sure they are fighting the wrong battle.  Nerfing things doesn't fix the power gap, and it doesn't make the game more fun and it doesn't feel good for those that get their favorite frame put in the back of the closet.  in general, the solution thus far, in my eyes, kind of sucks which is why I'm producing new ways to approach the problems.

I agree gating for rewards is a good plan, which is why I implemented some of that to help curtail the wave of MR 10's thinking they are hot poo and finding out they are cold diarrhea once they pair up with some players with actual min/max gear plus skill level, but that can't be the only solution, a concerted effort for engagement needs to be made. 

 

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On 2018-09-04 at 3:56 AM, ChaosSabre said:

But DE hates when those moves are actually good and/or useful to do so they get nerfed.

Wonder how long will it take till Nuke Trin 2.0 gets shut down.

how does this nuke trin build actually work? i been hearing about it but don't quite get it.

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53 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

how does this nuke trin build actually work? i been hearing about it but don't quite get it.

nuke trin 2.0 is actually flaw within the damage system itself. Rad proc turns on friendly fire, so then your team shots at you while you use your link. D.E can patch it. but it involves team to do it.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
7 hours ago, LupoDWolf said:

just creating enemies that have or Aoe resistance/immunity, and/or enemies that have higher resistences (both to damage and status) but are weak to single damage/ lose the resistance if more players are around will solve a lot

That's actually a really good idea too.  I still think that doesn't make the ideas above invalid, but I think both of those things could go a long way to solving the current issue.  There would have to be some in game lore explanation (like say the nullifier bubble) that gives it a reason to work the way it does, but I think you're definitely on to something.

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