Problems with Ash mechanics

[Albrecht-Entrati]

I think I should go back to the old Blade Storm, not quite as it was, just the part of automatically selecting the 18 enemies, but keeping the mechanics of the clones and being able to use Teleport to participate, the point is that it difficult to use the blade storm , the time to find and mark the enemies and then reactivate to the clones and Ash starts to kill, arrives a Saryn / Banshee / Equinox / little friend with Atterax's etc, they have already killed all...

Since I started playing Warframe, Ash has been my favorite and main Warframe, but it's getting harder and harder to play with him and say that Ash is a good option for X mission, it can be said that '' he has everything but he does not have nothing "has a lot of damage but the way to apply it is with the build for Fatal Telepor or with Blade Storm is horrible, while to use Blade Storm must follow 10 steps of how to use, a Saryn press 4 and destroy the entire map and several other warframes also, Ash is not being the best option for anything, everything that makes any other Warframe does better, Spy (Loki, Ivara, Rhino, Octavia etc), Extermination (Ember, Equinox, Banshee, Revenant, Volt, etc. etc. ) so I'm going to use Ash for what? I love him but it's hard to defend when other people say, '' Ash is crap '' he's not the best option for anything and I'm sad about it, I know I have the option to play solo to use as I want , but it's not so much fun, and when I want a squadron mission, there's always one saying, '' Why do you come from Ash for this mission? '' or squadrons do not accept Ash in the game

And frankly, it's okay to let a Blade Storm be automatic, it's not unbalanced, and there are actually many Warframes and Weapons that are three times more unbalanced than Ash was in the old days, I hope you understand what I mean by this feedback and understand <3, it is very rare to see Ash in any game 😞

 

[Fishyflakes]

Should get in line with Vauban, Nyx, Nezha, Wukong, etc.

[Albrecht-Entrati]

 

EXACTLY!!!

[StoneWukong]

There lies a problem in it because after a certain point it becomes spammable, believe me, id love old ash back and highlighting enemies is a lil inconvenient sometimes but as usual, if they return him to the old one, hell just become a room blender again. I love ash still even as he is now but thats because I only play him on solo matches but i get what you mean. Id suggesting a number reduce  or a longer casting time but theres always exploits. Rn what I want is an indicator to tell us clearly if mirage is standing in the light or dark to synergise with her third ability a little better. Right now it's very hard to tell sometimes because of how fast lighting changes and how different every room and tileset is.

Edited September 2, 2018 by demaziza636859332
Spelling

[(PSN)Chel-El]

Try this Tenno 

Install Mobilize mod, activate your 4 then scan targets as you glide or bullet past them 

When someone is clearly nuking a room, I have problems with Arca P users to be specific, I simply choose another room as units will still pass by

Taking him to excavation or POE can help you get into the flow of the new mechanics 

2,4 bullet jump or quick scan

MCGamerCZ shows how no fuss he does the targeting even for double targeting 

the option of leaving the clones behind and bulleting away, joining with weapons or activating the animations with 3 is the beauty of this new Ash imo and is rewarding once you find your mark 

[Nazrethim]

The only way old Blade Storm could make a come back, is if DE implements a mechanic to avoid it's spam. Perhaps having a separate gauge for it that charges up as Ash kills enemies with Bleeds, Shuriken and Finishers (not counting BS) and you can unleash it when the situation is dire?

[miomima]

Tbh, ash probbly one of those frames that is good for everything. Not scared of armor at all since all his abilities and pasive all about bleed procs, and on top of that he can remove all armor with just 1 button press. Hard to kill due to good stats and overpowered invisibility that have no counters outside radiation proc, can oneshot every problematic tanky target for teamates, and his ulty that scales in lategame because slash ignores armor and scales with combo-counter and stuns all enemies.

I dont think there actualy even one mission where Ash gona be bad. Defence? ehh..

Edited September 2, 2018 by miomima

[Nazrethim]

hace 3 horas, miomima dijo:

Tbh, ash probbly one of those frames that is good for everything. Not scared of armor at all since all his abilities and pasive all about bleed procs, and on top of that he can remove all armor with just 1 button press. Hard to kill due to good stats and overpowered invisibility that have no counters outside radiation proc, can oneshot every problematic tanky target for teamates, and his ulty that scales in lategame because slash ignores armor and scales with combo-counter and stuns all enemies.

I dont think there actualy even one mission where Ash gona be bad. Defence? ehh..

Any mission where you have to defend anything. He used to be good at Sortie Defense and useful in Eidolon hunts by hiding the Operative/Lures with Smoke Shadow, but that got nerfed for no reason and now he can't cloak them anymore. He is also pretty lackluster on ESO due to zero AoE damage, once your guns can't kill, you're done, BS hits hard but too slow to keep up.

And Combo Counter is being reworked soon, so maybe his scaling will take a hit once new melee patch arrives.

[(PSN)Radehx]

He's amazing for long survival runs because his damage doesn't really fall off much if you build him correctly. Few frames can keep up with his damage output at high levels.

[Nazrethim]

En 6/9/2018 a las 6:57, (PS4)Radehx dijo:

He's amazing for long survival runs because his damage doesn't really fall off much if you build him correctly. Few frames can keep up with his damage output at high levels.

Big numbers don't make up for shoddy mechanics.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Nazrethim:

Big numbers don't make up for shoddy mechanics.

Oh they do. That's the balancing act in here...the bigger the damage potential the bigger the inconvinience attached to it.

That's why the strongest guns are singleshot. That's why Saryn decays down to zero in a solid 4 seconds once she runs out of targets. That's why Octavia is so darn sensitive to Cc and also why glass cannon Banshee gotta pay the full price for her ult now.

It's definitly not a bad deal in his case... especially with how you're able to outdps all the frames OP mentioned with spamming shuriken until you reach levels where cheese frame definitily will NOT kill enemies faster then you're able to mark.

[Nazrethim]

hace 8 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Oh they do. That's the balancing act in here...the bigger the damage potential the bigger the inconvinience attached to it.

That's why the strongest guns are singleshot. That's why Saryn decays down to zero in a solid 4 seconds once she runs out of targets. That's why Octavia is so darn sensitive to Cc and also why glass cannon Banshee gotta pay the full price for her ult now.

It's definitly not a bad deal in his case... especially with how you're able to outdps all the frames OP mentioned with spamming shuriken until you reach levels where cheese frame definitily will NOT kill enemies faster then you're able to mark.

Great. But I wasn't talking about Marking. I was talking about other things like:

-Smoke Shadow being useless in 99% of the game after the nerf

-Rising Storm being 100% useless

-Fatal Teleport being almost mandatory

-"Join Bladestorm" not being on the dam bladestorm key, instead making Teleport unusable for NO GOOD REASON.

 

[EinheriarJudith]

9 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Oh they do. That's the balancing act in here...the bigger the damage potential the bigger the inconvinience attached to it.

That's why the strongest guns are singleshot. That's why Saryn decays down to zero in a solid 4 seconds once she runs out of targets. That's why Octavia is so darn sensitive to Cc and also why glass cannon Banshee gotta pay the full price for her ult now.

It's definitly not a bad deal in his case... especially with how you're able to outdps all the frames OP mentioned with spamming shuriken until you reach levels where cheese frame definitily will NOT kill enemies faster then you're able to mark.

exactly. i love new ash bladestorm. anytime i need to use it i just drop smoke bomb and turn it on mark and boom the things i want dead are dead and for cheap.

[JarodDempsey]

I find bladestorm to be inefficient. I use max efficiency and even with smokebomb i find ash to be very energy hungry. I think the marking mechanic is fine but i think itd be better if they only required like 1 mark to do full damage, 3 marks just seems like needless tedium. Also his teleport is a glitchy pos. I get that it sometimes tps him to targets who can be killed using fatal teleport which is fine but when it ports him to a target that clearly should be executed but then doesnt and continues to not execute them on subsequent casts which happens frequently it really makes his kit feel shoddy.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Nazrethim:

Snip

Debatable.

I for my part definitly do not consider Fatal Teleport a mandatory. Dagger/finisher Ash certainly got its own kinda meta but when finishers are unnecessary, it slows you down. I'm honestly more on the "aim free teleport" front anyways.

Join bladestorm is theyr design choice and there's bluntly no real difference eather way. The way it is we at least avoid "accidental joining" on early resets, what would've lead to an outrage all by itself.

Rising Storm is useless, true and what did i miss bout smoke shadow? It doesn't seem to be bound to a location anymore, what's a buff compared to what i remember it to have been?

Edited September 10, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

hace 8 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Debatable.

I for my part definitly do not consider Fatal Teleport a mandatory. Dagger/finisher Ash certainly got its own kinda meta but when finishers are unnecessary, it slows you down. I'm honestly more on the "aim free teleport" front anyways.

Point taken.

hace 8 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Join bladestorm is theyr design choice and there's bluntly no real difference eather way. The way it is we at least avoid "accidental joining" on early resets, what would've lead to an outrage all by itself.

Which could be easily fixed with a simple visual tweak: when you turn Marking mode you get sepia screen and smoke effect; when you unleash the storm you lose the sepia but retain the smoke effect until BS ends.

hace 8 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Rising Storm is useless, true and what did i miss bout smoke shadow? It doesn't seem to be bound to a location anymore, what's a buff compared to what i remember it to have been?

I'm talking about the augment, not the ability. It used to hide anything that wasnt a console or cryopod. It was nerfed (with no patchnote mention) to no longer hide Lures or Sortie Operatives, despite those being the most common targets of said augment.

Said nerf should be reverted and a lingering smoke ahould be asded to make it easier to camo allies by allowing them to enter after you caste tje demn thing. Or make Pow Range affect its radius once again.

Rising storm flat out needs to be overhauled.

[(PSN)Radehx]

On 2018-09-09 at 4:31 PM, Nazrethim said:

Big numbers don't make up for shoddy mechanics.

Mechanics are totally fine imo...which is kinda proven by how effectively he can kill at all levels.

[Nazrethim]

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Radehx dijo:

Mechanics are totally fine imo...which is kinda proven by how effectively he can kill at all levels.

Discounting making another ability unusable during it, requiring either hand spasms or ridiculusly accurate twich-reflex aiming to mark efficiently, slow as snail execution, useless augment, useless body destroying gimmick, having one of its functions locked on an unrelated key sure  BS has no fail mechanics.

Or what about the other stuff I listed?

[JarodDempsey]

15 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Debatable.

I for my part definitly do not consider Fatal Teleport a mandatory. Dagger/finisher Ash certainly got its own kinda meta but when finishers are unnecessary, it slows you down. I'm honestly more on the "aim free teleport" front anyways.

Join bladestorm is theyr design choice and there's bluntly no real difference eather way. The way it is we at least avoid "accidental joining" on early resets, what would've lead to an outrage all by itself.

Rising Storm is useless, true and what did i miss bout smoke shadow? It doesn't seem to be bound to a location anymore, what's a buff compared to what i remember it to have been?

i definitely would not consider fatal tp a requirement for anything aside from letch kril my point was that it's glitchy af and is otherwise a popular/attractive mechanic for prospective ash players but ends up making him seem kind of gimmicky due to its poor reliability.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb JarodDempsey:

i definitely would not consider fatal tp a requirement for anything aside from letch kril my point was that it's glitchy af and is otherwise a popular/attractive mechanic for prospective ash players but ends up making him seem kind of gimmicky due to its poor reliability.

Mind elaborating on the poor reliability?

[DreisterDino]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)CoolD2108:

Mind elaborating on the poor reliability?

Let me do it because i came here because i wanted to make a topic about it 😄

The problem i have is that in 50% of the cases, Ash doesnt perform a finisher on the target when Fatal Teleport is equipped.

I am not sure if i am overseeing something and if i am too stupid to use him or if its simply bugged.

 

I stopped using fatal teleport because its useless and i dont wanna use it if every time i press it Ash just teleports there doing nothing.

Sometimes i can press 3 like five times on an enemy and nothing happens.

 

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb DreisterDino:

Snip

Yeah pretty sure that is a bug? It's at least not the first time i hear people complain about it... Though, there's also enemies that simply don't allow finishers to begin with.

Feel free to confirm it is actually a bug, should it be- collect evidence and post it here:

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/11-general/

 

...both of you ideally. The more people do, the more likely it'll get fixed eventually.

Edited September 11, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[DreisterDino]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (PS4)CoolD2108:

Yeah pretty sure that is a bug? It's at least not the first time i hear people complain about it... Though, there's also enemies that simply don't allow finishers to begin with.

Feel free to confirm it is actually a bug, should it be- collect evidence and post it here:

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/11-general/

Well, the last time i wanted to use it it was on E-Prime to open a Riven^^

I dont know exactly which enemies dont accept finishers, but i am sure it happened on normal Butchers for example.

Also if it doesnt work 4 times but works on the 5th click, i dont think that this can be the problem.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 1 Minute schrieb DreisterDino:

Also if it doesnt work 4 times but works on the 5th click, i dont think that this can be the problem.

True that. In that case just keep in mind to record it the next time it happens!

[JarodDempsey]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Mind elaborating on the poor reliability?

As i said initially i understand that it often doesnt work on targets that dont have animations for finishers which is meh but it often doesnt do a finisher on targets that have finisher animations. Like a simple crewman (of which i had just killed many using ftp) I can use it on and itll just not kill him but i can spam it on him and itll still perform the teleport but the execute will just not happen. And it's not the majority of times but it's definitely more than what i would consider rare. Sometimes i thought maybe it didnt work because there wasnt room behind the enemy to jump on the back but it has occurred numerous times on enemies whose backs are completely open as well.