Almagnus1 Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 49 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said: Overshields are also a part of the effective health pool equation. All they do is add on points. To put it rather bluntly, those numbers are peanuts compared to what Inaros will do with an Umbral build sitting at 1055 armor and 7425 HP and no shields... giving 33537 EHP. For any of those warframes to be anywhere near the ballpark of Inaros, they'd need 30k overshields. (Inaros build is https://goo.gl/Wp9v3U - and before anyone says it, you can swap out Rapid Resilience for Negation Swarm I just like Rapid Resilience better). 49 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said: With new players being more prone to either spamming the 1st ability they learned how to use or only spamming their 4th ability. Mag does get Tankier using her 4th ability. I am not opposed to Mag getting Zephyr level of health pool and Khora levels of Armor, although I don't think it would change how new players perceive Mag even with 275 Armor and 450 health at level 30.** Actually, that would change a lot, as the Base EHP from that much armor and health is at 1313, and with that much armor, you'd want to go Steel Fiber and Vitality, for 3238 EHP and completely ignore the shields for modding. 44 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said: Ancient Healer Specters, Trinity Blessing, Oberon Hallowed Ground (Due to no Slash or Toxic status bypass of Shields to health...thus making Mag's Shields buffed as being her actual life pool which she can recharge/Overshields with energy at will) For Frost and Nezha to assist in protectection both need their Augments: Icy Avalanche and Safeguard. Amesha - in POE and Fortuna can bolster Shields with either Benevolent Decoy direct cast like Safeguard Warding Halo Nezha, Status immunity like Hallowed Ground from Warding Grace Aura, or full invulnerability until energy is full from Vengeful Rush Aura. *Not sure why you have Iron Skin as a way to bolster Mag's shields... I think you missed the point, which was not about buffs helping or giving more overshields (which is what those mechanics are), but mechanics that could be considered to make the shields themselves have something akin to armor - which is a mechanic shields lack and why you will never get a shielded character to have as much EHP as the Inaros example that I linked. Status immunity also doesn't improve the shields ability to be tankier, just helps with survival. 44 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said: Fast deflection on Mag would be a joke..only because she can bypass the Shield recharge delay with 2 Ability casts that instantly generate Shields. Not including Sentinel precepts like Guardian or Shield Charger. That's the problem with shields... there needs to be an armor mechanic for shields as shields are paper armor in high level content. 44 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said: Wyrm Negate, Raska Protect, and Taxon Molecular Conversion also being Shield boosting. Again, it's not about Shield Boosting, it's about giving the shields something akin to armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMeowth Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 As a mag player, the only healing specter I use are in defense missions, when I want to go killing stuff but can't because my teamates suck, and when I'm tired being the only one healing and defending the cryopod. Because as good as Mag is, she can't multiply, and no amount of armor will change that. Actually, the same goes for every specters. If you see me use one, that mean you suck and I stopped counting on you... XD (...well, except for clem. I like having him around.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Almagnus1 said: ~snip~ there is no point in making squishy frames tanky. if you dont like squish there are others. DE gives new players 3 choices when they make an account. a warrior (excal) a rogue (volt) a mage (mag). all mages in any game that has them make them squishy for a reason too. if a new player cannot be asked to do a little bit of reading or research to make their choice on starter a smart one, then why should DE make it easier for them even though its pretty easy already. what i say DE should add is a learning curve rating to selection. many games that have different character classes have difficult characters as a starter choice. why should warframe be different. Edited September 4, 2018 by EinheriarJudith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Almagnus1 said: All they do is add on points. To put it rather bluntly, those numbers are peanuts compared to what Inaros will do with an Umbral build sitting at 1055 armor and 7425 HP and no shields... giving 33537 EHP. For any of those warframes to be anywhere near the ballpark of Inaros, they'd need 30k overshields. (Inaros build is https://goo.gl/Wp9v3U - and before anyone says it, you can swap out Rapid Resilience for Negation Swarm I just like Rapid Resilience better). Actually, that would change a lot, as the Base EHP from that much armor and health is at 1313, and with that much armor, you'd want to go Steel Fiber and Vitality, for 3238 EHP and completely ignore the shields for modding. I think you missed the point, which was not about buffs helping or giving more overshields (which is what those mechanics are), but mechanics that could be considered to make the shields themselves have something akin to armor - which is a mechanic shields lack and why you will never get a shielded character to have as much EHP as the Inaros example that I linked. Status immunity also doesn't improve the shields ability to be tankier, just helps with survival. That's the problem with shields... there needs to be an armor mechanic for shields as shields are paper armor in high level content. Again, it's not about Shield Boosting, it's about giving the shields something akin to armor. If tanking as a whole I the wanted aspect: Mag would benefit more from a passive change where her Shields have Damage Mitigation. 15% for normal Shields and 20% for Overshields. Damage Mitigation is better than Armor, because it is not bypassed. Lephantis non-armor yet scaling damage mitigation is the best example vs other Armor heavy Bosses. As for your claim about Status immunity not counting as bolstering Shields or counting towards being more Tanky: I disagree. *Shield Transference Augment used to provide Mag with a Protective Bubble that protected against status. Meaning her replenishable Shields were actually her life-force. No bypass to health damage. Part of why Inaraos' effective health pool and even Nidus, is that they can protect themselves against both Toxin which has enhanced damage to health and Slash which normally bypass their high armor stat. Inaros with his already massive health pool can use Negation Swarm to protect from his weakness to Bleed procs and Nidus can use Parascitic Link to also circumvent Bleed procs bypassing his armor and he is also applying Damage Mitigation on top of his Armor & Health effective health pool. Trinity is an example of player Damage Mitigation, using Overshields to be tanky. Both Link and Blessing stack damage mitigation which applies to Trinity's Overshields and this allows her to have a Max of about 93% Damage Resistance when solo. That 93% Damage Resistance applies to 1200 Overshield cap. That would be the equivalent of Shields having an Armor value because Damage Reisistance/Mitigtaion applies to Shields, Overshields, and health equally. Trinity has 93% Damage mitigation and then has 4% Armor damage Mitigtaion on health. (Unless aslo using a Rogue Well of Life Build with Health Conversion to have 1215 armor.)* That lnaros 1055 armor is about 78% Damage Mitigtaion which is a little higher than Blessing or Link's individual 75% Damage Resistance/Mitigation. If the Goal is to bolster Mag's Shields rather than just a flat Armor/health stat buff: DE could let Shards contribute to Mag Shield Damage Resistance rather than being another damage application. If she followed the normal 95% Damage Cap but reached the damage mitigation cap by number of Shards acquired rather than an arbitrary Powerstrength number; New players would be able to receive that Damage Mitigation without relying on mods and instead would be rewarded for playstyle. Leaving Passive in place to assist a Sentinel-free new player the ability to gather shards easily by Bullet-jumping around after a Polarize cast...there-by increasing her tankiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csaszar Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 If her 1st ability wouldnt work that random and would be much more predictable that would help Mag immensly more than a few more EHP. Make pull more predictable and most problems go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmlink Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 Shields being bad is not a mag specific problem, DE not doing anything for years to address the disparity between health, armor, and shields is the issue. Fix shields being garbage and this issue goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EinheriarJudith Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ohmlink said: Shields being bad is not a mag specific problem, DE not doing anything for years to address the disparity between health, armor, and shields is the issue. Fix shields being garbage and this issue goes away. shield should be strong against any kinetic damage. this is how every other game that has shields treats it. it s a damage type problem not so much a shield problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ada_Wong_SG Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Her Polarize gives overshield, pull for crowd control, and crush for killing. I have soloed Hydron with Mag without taking a single hit, all enemies are dead before I enter their line of fire. Max out efficiency and power strength, energizing dash might help a bit but dead enemies give energy too. Edited September 4, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthraxicus Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Ada_Wong_SG said: Her Polarize gives overshield, pull for crowd control, and crush for killing. I have soloed Hydron with Mag without taking a single hit, all enemies are dead before I enter their line of fire. Max out efficiency and power strength, energizing dash might help a bit but dead enemies give energy too. Hydron is not exactly a good testing ground. You can do the same with Banshee, Saryn, Frost, Equinox and others. Doesn't change much. Also, Polarizes does not give overshield. Crush does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcira Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 For Mag Prime you can use Primed Flow + QT. That´s more EHP than you can achieve with all other defense mods combined. For Mag there should be an energy buff though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 On 2018-09-04 at 7:57 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said: If tanking as a whole I the wanted aspect: Mag would benefit more from a passive change where her Shields have Damage Mitigation. 15% for normal Shields and 20% for Overshields. Damage Mitigation is better than Armor, because it is not bypassed. That would be an interesting passive, as the current one is garbage. On 2018-09-04 at 7:57 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said: As for your claim about Status immunity not counting as bolstering Shields or counting towards being more Tanky: I disagree. Doesn't matter if you disagree or not, that's how EHP is calculated. On 2018-09-04 at 7:57 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said: Trinity is an example of player Damage Mitigation, using Overshields to be tanky. Both Link and Blessing stack damage mitigation which applies to Trinity's Overshields and this allows her to have a Max of about 93% Damage Resistance when solo. The game math is different than what you think is going on. Overshields (and shields in general) are just extra HP sitting on top of whatever the armor damage reduction and health EHP is. On 2018-09-04 at 7:57 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said: If the Goal is to bolster Mag's Shields rather than just a flat Armor/health stat buff: Shields are a garbage mechanic as far as EHP goes, and by increasing armor and health in the current system you will actually make Mag a bit tankier. On 2018-09-04 at 7:57 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said: Leaving Passive in place to assist a Sentinel-free new player the ability to gather shards easily by Bullet-jumping around after a Polarize cast...there-by increasing her tankiness. IMO forcing a player to bullet jump around after a polarize cast is a horribly bad idea. 22 hours ago, Ohmlink said: Shields being bad is not a mag specific problem, DE not doing anything for years to address the disparity between health, armor, and shields is the issue. Fix shields being garbage and this issue goes away. I totally agree, and giving shields an armor like stat (resistance?) would go miles towards helping there. 19 hours ago, Arcira said: For Mag Prime you can use Primed Flow + QT. That´s more EHP than you can achieve with all other defense mods combined. For Mag there should be an energy buff though. And that doesn't do what this suggested change is intended to: Help out newer mag players by making Mag a bit tankier. The problem here isn't with the top end, it's with the R0's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Chel-El Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) there are nodes that have “no shields” mode I suggest OP try those to test shields. yes you can cheese it with some frames but that is not the point, it is to test the usefulness or uselessness of shields a Mag worth her salt can replenish her own shields. Then start to keep an eye on teammates, sentinels, pets, static and specter objectives just as a support player would. by constant shield replenishing and cc, Mag survives and helps other survive. so it’s an energy efficiency, duration or range buffs that can increase that caster playstyle and progression. to go the armor route is not fitting for her thematically imo, and will upset the balance with other dps frames that have average armor Edited September 5, 2018 by (PS4)Chel-El Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 54 minutes ago, (PS4)Chel-El said: to go the armor route is not fitting for her thematically imo, and will upset the balance with other dps frames that have average armor ** looks at http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor/Chart ** You do realize that Nidus, Saryn Prime, Excalibur Umbra/Prime, and Frost Prime are all at 300 armor, right? Do you want to rethink that position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Chel-El Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 that was a leap of logic. because those frames listed have 300 or so armor, Mag needs more? what about the other frames with the same amount as Mag? I played and progressed Mag and I don’t see an Umbral Armored Mag build soon. If u just stop fighting her intended theme and abilities then you may see Mag, not Saryn or Excal 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Almagnus1 said: That would be an interesting passive, as the current one is garbage. Doesn't matter if you disagree or not, that's how EHP is calculated. The game math is different than what you think is going on. Overshields (and shields in general) are just extra HP sitting on top of whatever the armor damage reduction and health EHP is. Shields are a garbage mechanic as far as EHP goes, and by increasing armor and health in the current system you will actually make Mag a bit tankier. IMO forcing a player to bullet jump around after a polarize cast is a horribly bad idea. I totally agree, and giving shields an armor like stat (resistance?) would go miles towards helping there. And that doesn't do what this suggested change is intended to: Help out newer mag players by making Mag a bit tankier. The problem here isn't with the top end, it's with the R0's. You really believe that Damage reduction on Shields is inferior to Armor protected health for Effective Health calculations? I will cede that "Armor Effective health" calculations are "true and effective" against all incoming damage and thus not varying with Finisher damage as you mentioned. That way EHP is always a constant and not having a calculation that can be bypassed making it appear lower in practice. Math doesn't lie and you are correct. Thank you for enlightening me that: 1200 Overshields with 95% Damage Reduction is less Effective Health than 740 health protected by 1260 armor (80.77% Damage Mitigation). Effective Health for Shields with Damage Reduction is similar formula to Health Armor. Nominal Health / 1- Damage Reduction/Mitigation 1200 Overshields / (1 - 0.95) 95% Danage Reduction = 24,000 Effective Shields Edited September 5, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MrNishi Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) On 2018-09-04 at 1:54 AM, Almagnus1 said: All they do is add on points. To put it rather bluntly, those numbers are peanuts compared to what Inaros will do with an Umbral build sitting at 1055 armor and 7425 HP and no shields... giving 33537 EHP. For any of those warframes to be anywhere near the ballpark of Inaros, they'd need 30k overshields. (Inaros build is https://goo.gl/Wp9v3U - and before anyone says it, you can swap out Rapid Resilience for Negation Swarm I just like Rapid Resilience better). Trinity with 93% DR from Link + Blessing is a situational...but protecting 1200 Overshields is 17,142 Effective Overshield Health Add in that normal Shields have to be at full before Overshields can be aquired and a level 30 normal Trinity would have 300 Shields and 300 health with 15 Armor protecting the health portion. With additional overshield cap bringing total Shields to 1500 and Link + Blessing stacking for 97% DR that is 21,428 total effective shield health. 300 health protected by 15 armor is 314 effective health, then also protected by same Link+Blessing stack for 93% DR ... 314 (health) / (1 - 0.93) = 4,485.7 effective health with Link+Blessing That 4,485.7 effective health plus the total effective shield health of 21,428 = 25,913.7 total effective health when Overshields and Link+ Blessing Damage Reduction are protecting a Trinity with no Redirection, no Vitality, and no Steel fiber. If that Umbral Inaros is in the same group with Blessing's 75% Group DR that would be 33,537 health would be bolstered to a total effective health of 134,138. Damage Resistance is better than Armor Mitigation in that it is not bypassed by Finisher damage and applies to both Shields (making them more resilient) and Armor-protected health. Trinity can use Primed Flow with Quick-Thinking to also have a large energy-marking pool protected by the same 93% Damage Reduction to further situational effective health pool. Mag being able to utilize Shards to have Damage resistance would make her more tanky than Excalibur or Volt, even at the expanse of having to pick up the shards or Bullet Jump /vacuum them. If Mag was in that same group as Trinity, receiving 75% DR on top of a Shard provided 95% DR she would have 98.75% total DR. 1200 Overshields protected by 98.75% DR is 96,000 effective Overshield Health points. Mag's base 450 Shields at level 30 plus the 1200 Overshield cap would be 1650 Shields, protected by Shards 95% DR stacked with Blessing's 75% for that 98.75% DR to bring total effective Shield health to 132,000. That seems like a potentially substantial buff to me for Mag, with both her and Trinity not having any Health, Armor, or Shield mods equipped and just using Abilities to stack Damage Resistance. But as you pointed out...Overshields don't contribute to EHP. Edited September 6, 2018 by (PS4)MrNishi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 The great irony of this entire thread is that I'm suggesting of bringing Mag Prime up to Volt's Prime base EHP... nothing more, nothing less. 3 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said: that was a leap of logic. because those frames listed have 300 or so armor, Mag needs more? Or maybe it's looking at what the frames can do, and looking at what Mag can do, and being wholly underwhelmed by Mag's inability to combine DPS and survival like Nova and Mesa can... but more on that in a bit. 3 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said: what about the other frames with the same amount as Mag? Which is 65 (and down) and the warframes are: 65: Banshee Prime, Ivara, Loki Prime, Mag Prime, Mesa, Nekros Prime, Nova Prime, Titania At same tier: Loki, Mag, Nekros, Nova Primes with higher armor: Ash, Limbo, Mirage 50: Nyx Prime Primes with higher armor: Vauban 15: Trinity Prime At same tier: Trinity Primes with higher armor: Banshee, Nyx, Volt, Zephyr So looking at the list, Ivara and Loki have stealth which means they should never actually be shot at (in theory) - in practice not so much. Mesa has Shattershield which is essentially damage reflection. Nekros Prime can use Desecration shenanigans to keep himself at full health. Nova has molecular prime which can stop enemies in their tracks and also buffs incoming damage to them. Titania can go Razorwing and gain an evasion chance for incoming fire. Ash is, well a mystery as the frame never really interested me enough to look into him >.> Limbo has void shenanigans to freeze enemies. Mirage can clone her self causing shots to hit the clone instead of Mirage helping Mirage survive. Banshee's got enough raw DPS combined with semi-stealth abilities that survival isn't as much of a problem if Banshee hits first. Nyx is a hot steaming mess of a frame right now, but has really strong CC... but CC generally isn't as good as the better CC being DPS. Continuing on, Vauban has a host of CC abilities, including Bastille. Trinity can out heal and out shield incoming damage, essentially being the white mage of warframes. Volt's got his shield to hide behind. Zephyr is a flappy bird, and trying to shoot a flappy bird is hard for the AI (sometimes). So looking at all of those survival abilities, Mag's abilities come up short. 3 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said: I played and progressed Mag and I don’t see an Umbral Armored Mag build soon. It's cause Mag doesn't have enough armor to warrant slotting Steel Fiber, let alone Umbral Fiber. Best Mag can get out of the Umbral mods is Vitality and Intensity and any builder worth their salt should be able to understand why. If I need to explain this further it means your grasp on warframe modding and mechanics isn't as good as you think it is. 1 hour ago, (PS4)MrNishi said: <giant wall of text> You need to go read http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shield#Overshield Or let me quote that for you because you probably won't: Quote Overshield are extra shield points on top of the normal maximum shielding, which are acquired through the use of active shield restoration items or abilities that would restore shields beyond the Warframe's maximum shield capacity. Unlike normal shields, overshields do not regenerate, and instead stack on top of normal shielding, allowing even those with low maximum shield values to gain substantial shield defenses. Overshields have a maximum value of 1,200 regardless of source, and will remain for as long as the Warframe's shields do not drop to its normal maximum capacity. The player's shield counter changes from blue to purple while possessing overshields. Overshields can be obtained from: Overshields don't do squat for damage reduction - so quit making stuff up to attempt to strengthen your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Chel-El Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 That’s a litany on how all the other frames with the same amount of armor can survive, and yet you can’t make up an excuse for Mag? This trolling? Vauban can cc to survive you say, well guess what kind of frame Mag is? CC, casting speed, shields,energy, health- that’s where DE went with the recent rework because that goes with the theme of the frame. Don’t insult me for rejecting the notion of armored Mag. I can’t take this topic srsly anymore, for the lack of imagination and interpretation. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixsylvaris Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) Every frame having same Shield,Armour, Health values... that sounds a bit boring. There need to be the other way. One way to go would be to make Counter Pulse integral part of kit, so you are still squishy, but have that panic button. At least as long as you have energy. Instead of Counter Pulse mod, something dedicated to faction. Like Counter Pulse deals x5 damage to exacly shields. Edited September 6, 2018 by felixsylvaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Enemies are wielding chew toys at level 3, which is what enemies start at on Earth. Redirection and Vitality are among the first mods you find in the game, and new players usually equip them pretty soon. They wean themselves off of them later when they discover how broken powerspam is. None of the starter frames are especially lacking in durability (and people got along fine with Loki when he was a starter,) and using raw EHP measures is misleading given that shield regeneration contributes a potentially huge amount of extra EHP over the course of a mission. This mission of shilling for Mag buffs under the pretense of supposed balance or popularity continues to amuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 On 2018-09-04 at 2:08 AM, (PS4)Chel-El said: As for OP’s concerns that Mag starters are struggling with survivability someone mentioned being a squishy frame sets you up to adapt with other mechanics that can offset that squishiness and I agree- rolling, defensive parkour, constant cc, positioning behind bubbles or walls, healer specter, shield replenish. I'm also of the mind that squishy frames help teach better tactics earlier that can then be used for all frames. For example those that switch to Rhino very early tend to not learn those very things mentioned above. Same with Excal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 11 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said: That’s a litany on how all the other frames with the same amount of armor can survive, and yet you can’t make up an excuse for Mag? This trolling? If you would have actually been reading what I've been writing, it's because overshields don't actually help mag (it's basically an additional EHP point), and the only defensive ability Mag has is Pull... which means you either have to spam Pull to CC enemies, or you end up with a bunch of stuff near you that you have to deal with or your dead. Unlike Firequake World on Fire, that stuff isn't basically stunned indefinitely so in my book, Pull isn't a CC skill. While Counter Pulse is amusing... it does jack against the infested, compared to Loki doing Disarm (or Irradiating Disarm). Crush would be considered a possible CC skill... if Duration worked on the stun so that Mag could lock down groups of enemies with Crush. 11 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said: Vauban can cc to survive you say, well guess what kind of frame Mag is? Cause Vauban's CC actually works more often than not, but even then it's generally not as good as what Frost or Volt can do. 11 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said: CC, casting speed, shields,energy, health- that’s where DE went with the recent rework because that goes with the theme of the frame. And sometimes you need to go back and look at what's been done. All I'm really asking is for Mag (and Mag Prime's) EHP to be buffed up to Volt (and Volt Prime's) EHP primarily because Mag's a starter frame with the lowest EHP of the three - that's also highly amusing considering that Mag is also the only female starter frame. 11 hours ago, felixsylvaris said: Every frame having some Shield,Armour, Health values... that sounds a bit boring. There need to be the other way. I think I may be missing something, but shield, armor, HP, and energy are the core stats of all frames... where's the issue in having core stats? 11 hours ago, felixsylvaris said: One way to go would be to make Counter Pulse integral part of kit, so you are still squishy, but have that panic button. At least as long as you have energy. Instead of Counter Pulse mod, something dedicated to faction. Like Counter Pulse deals x5 damage to exacly shields. If we want to go down that IMO DE needs to look into letting the CC on Pull and Crush be affected by duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted September 6, 2018 Author Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said: I'm also of the mind that squishy frames help teach better tactics earlier that can then be used for all frames. For example those that switch to Rhino very early tend to not learn those very things mentioned above. Same with Excal. And yet, many of the players (if not the majority) do just that throughout the early MRs - which may also be because a tankier warframe is a bit more fun than a squishy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 9 hours ago, Almagnus1 said: which may also be because a tankier warframe is a bit more fun than a squishy one. That's a personal preference thing. In games I've always preferred the glass cannons. Power, speed, and technique are generally the hallmarks of glass cannons. This is what has always drawn me to them. Tanks are usually the opposite. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: That's a personal preference thing. In games I've always preferred the glass cannons. Power, speed, and technique are generally the hallmarks of glass cannons. This is what has always drawn me to them. Tanks are usually the opposite. 😁 So... what's your take on Volt? The suggested stat tweaks bring Mag Prime up to Volt Prime's EHP, despite vanilla Mag having more EHP than vanilla Volt (and vanilla Volt could probably use an armor bump as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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