Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[ActionPoohole]

Hi guys,

So a bit of a vent thread here: Yet again I run into another Saryn on KUVA survival.

45 minutes into the game everything is still dying and the Saryn is doing almost nothing, seemingly semi-afk. So I guess my point is...

What kind of design of frame is this? I still do not understand why such an inherently broken concept has been placed into the game in the first place. Range that extends down halls and through doorways that kills everything even beyond level 110 etc (Including heavy and high level Eximus units)... In a game that really does not reward content beyond that point at all, why is this a thing?

I almost always refuse to play with Saryn due to the fact that they can press a button or 2 and afk while doing the most DPS leaving other players struggling to find something to do when the content is under level 100 (which almost everything is unless you're there for over an hour which too is basically pointless (Yet another issue with warframe) ).

She obliterates almost everything without other players getting a chance to partake in combat. Her role in the game is as toxic as her abilities. I personally see no reason for Warframes like this to exist apart from DPS show boating, arrogance or AFKing. She adds nothing to interactivity for other players in the group. Providing corrosive damage should probably (IMO) be a part of weapons, not Warframe abilities. If you corrode the targets with your source of DPS then you've already done most of what needs to be done due to the insane scaling of armor. Synergy with her does not exist until way past normal late game content. We're talking at least an hour or 2 into a long survival before her abilities start to slow down it seems... And again, that sort of content is mostly just for bragging rights with a few exceptions (Fissure rewards and whatever).

For the life of me, I cannot understand it. This is extremely poor gameplay design. Her DPS is over the top. It just makes me want to slump and use sit emote as there is almost nothing to do unless they let there be something to do.

"Run around and be a good Catalyst holder" ... Hmmm... Seems all the Saryn players that like playing as or with her always say she's fun or she's balanced, she most certainly is NOT balanced... And fun? As subjective as it is, if you find being AFK for most the game while everything dies as fun then I both envy and loathe what you feel there. Envy you for being able to enjoy something so pitifully boring and loathe that you could think that because that sort of opinion is what ruins what I believe could potentially be a genuinely high quality gaming experience.

There are other OP frames that actually involve interactivity and Synergy, and that is "ok" I guess, as long as it allows others to enjoy playing the game. Saryn does not. Sure, you may host a game and create an enjoyable experience with them if you set up correctly and are accepting of being the wheels on the vehicle till the point of 2-3 hours hours in a survival happens and you can finally be of use. But if you're not, and you want some sort of challenge without waiting for a broken frame to start dropping in dps hours later then Saryn does not partake in this concept.

This is a Co-op game; one that is designed for co-operation... And as far as I can see, co op is almost out the window with some frames... Out the window like rubbish of old England times in Saryn's case.

So then you get another frame and compare, say Khora? And her 4th ability? Causes enemies to endlessly swing around in a jungle gym slowly bleeding out because they snagged a bit of skin on a sharp bit, then you can crack them with your liquorice whip and bind them up in fence wire.

I won't ever get why the direction of nuke everything is applied to any frames. The scaling in this game is so horribly out of wack and the damage system is so topsy turvy that it's blatantly obvious to see where the flaws in the whole of Warframe content lays. Firstly, scaling ramps up too fast that you're just getting 1 shot within an hour or 2 (being 1 shot should never be a thing in any PvE game unless it's counterable). So you do what? Kill everything before it gets to you or remain invulnerable. So Saryn is the kill everything before it gets to you. Combine that with a bit of defence and you're basically unbeatable till you get bored. Oh, and healers can't heal what is dead... So that's why damage mitigation is required, and what better way apart from making yourself invulnerable with shielding abilities to do that? Kill everything before it can kill you. That's why Trinity buffs shields better than she heals, because shields help you to NOT take damage at all. And there's a point where that isn't going to help you much at all.

And that entirely ruins long survivals and stagnates the reason to not provide scaling rewards, because some frames are too good at it and other ones are pitifully useless at it. If you did provide scaling rewards then everyone would clearly see what is broken in the entirety of this game. DE know it and that's is why I believe they will not give scaling KUVA rewards. It's pitiful enough that the rolls cost so much as it is, but we don't get anything more for staying longer, better off just going 1 hour and repeating. That gets pretty boring, so we try ourselves for our OWN enjoyment and nothing more to try go longer.... And then Saryn happens and that just blows everything out of the water while you wait for 1-2 hours before anything even starts to get interesting.

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So rather than just complaining about it? Well it's time to make some suggestions then!

So where could DE start on the road to fixing this woefully unbalanced game?

1. Enemy Armor/Damage scaling needs to be more paced out.
2. Range of abilities in almost all cases needs to be lowered.
3. Enemies need to get into closer proximity before being able to 1 shot you. Enemies could also have dodge-able shots like the current wound up sniper shots. Or abilities that show their path before hitting said path. (Anything that can be countered with dodging or active abilities to mitigate when need be, but not a constant ON or OFF defence)
4. Defence missions need to be designed less poorly as to allow line of sight only abilities\weapons\etc to be useful for faster clearing as well as be constantly flowing rather than a wait between every wave which further pushes towards the need for non line of sight based AoE to clear them as they spawn each wave.
5. Enemies need to not be so cowardly, and really BADLY need to stop getting stuck. Please fix this.
6. Weapons\abilities need more damage fall off to not only cause enemies to need to be closer to you to kill you, but also need you to be closer to them to kill them.. This would make better use of flight speed mods.
7. Game needs to focus more on close combat and reward you for skilled play. (This doesn't mean that newbies don't have their place to enjoy the game too, they'll just find it more challenging to get scaling rewards. And if they aren't willing to put in the time or effort to get better at the game then I believe they shouldn't be rewarded the same as players that put in more effort. That's how every other game I have enjoyed has been, why does Warframe insist on rewarding both laziness and lack of skill? Everybody gets a Ribbon in Warframe and that's why it appeals to so many, but there is such minimal additional reward for going that extra mile that veterans get bored too fast and keep hoping for new content or probably just stop playing in larger blocks.)

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I could add on and on to the list but that is probably for some sort of MEGA thread.

Currently: Warframe is entirely an Easy Mode game with virtually ZERO content that could possibly be called a challenge. When a veteran player (To not only Warframe) such as myself goes looking for any sort of challenge it is all self created. EG:

"Lets do this with these frames and not these ones because those ones are broken and boring afk frames and see how long we can last"

or

"I'm going to see if I can get this random weapon that seems fun to be worth using by rolling Rivens."

So not only do many of us have to waste extreme amounts of time that give no reward apart from making their own enjoyment, the lazy players that don't care to push the limits of the game continue to make large amounts of platinum from doing easy and repeatable content.

The game doesn't challenge veteran players at all and rewards almost entirely the use of broken frames that can kill everything without even having to use guns.

There is a plethora of weaponry in the game yet a vast majority of content requires minimal use of weapons. Take Elite Sanctuary Online for example: It was seemingly months worth of Trinity just blowing up her own feet to win the game.

Now it's buffed Equinox or what not.

You bring other frames into the game and more often than not you'll be struggling to even find the enemies to kill them before the timer runs out, further increasing the need for excessive range on a Warframe with buffs to that Warframe to be more efficient.

This game is about efficiency, not challenge or fun.

For anyone that has over 500 hours in the game:

1. Why exactly would you play a capture mission for apart from loot?
2. Why would you do a defence mission apart from loot?
3. Why would you play defection apart from loot?
4. Why would you go to the Plains apart from loot?
5. Why would you do interception apart from loot?
6. Why would you do rescue apart from loot?
7. Why would you do a spy mission apart from loot?

To me: The answer is: I would not. They are boring as hell. The reason I play this game is because of tinkering with weapons and riven mods and seeing what I can do with them and seeing how long I can go in a survival with friends when we don't use excessively broken Warframes. But sometimes you have to use OP Warframes because the weak ones are boring. Where is the balance? 

The game is addictive because it is addictive to collect things and earn currency... It most certainly is not addictive because of the boring designs of most missions. There certainly is not any challenging content in the game and anything considered as "difficult" is because of bad gameplay mechanics and not actual difficulty. Being 1 shot by enemies that you cannot avoid is NOT difficulty. That is broken gameplay. It's like saying to someone "Hop in the Water wearing lead boots and try staying afloat without a float". Sure, of course it's difficult. Because you need a float. And this game is just full of floats and full of lead boots and all the things that are actually fun in the game are entirely not necessary to success.

I hope to see this game start taking a bit more of a step in the direction of providing actual challenging content and not throwing more and more monsters that entail holding crouch to not die to.

I hope to see them learn from RPG games that don't require you to nuke the entirety of the enemy from a mile away to overcome the overwhelming odds. Surely there needs to be some tactics added to the game that extend beyond the use of excessively powerful 4th abilities that trivialise mid level content and make high level content a breeze, because that sort of stuff is for newbies and afkers. If you want to watch youtube or twitch streams then it appears this game is fantastic for that.

But what about players who actually want to dig in and beat some content that is truly challenging? The last time I ran into that was the Ambulas sortie 3 when I was a noob myself. And now it's just a case of probably 1 or 2 shotting the Ambulas with a [hunter munitions] sniper rifle. Even then? You'll probably get an Ayatan treasure.

Well that's my rant over and done with.

Comments? Roll with it.

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[Rawbeard]

TL;DR

but your solution is probably: solo, or premade.

[chofranc]

Nope.

[xethier]

A simple quick solution is to add range based damage falloff to warframe abilities.

A solution I'm very in favor of.

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by xethier

[AandOE]

I don't seem to run into the types of Saryn folks that are mentioned here. Additionally, I run any type of mission just because I want to! Is today a Plains/Fortuna day, a quick-I-need-a-fast-capture-mission-before-I-leave day, a Cephalon alert day, a Ducat running day, an Operator-only fun time extravaganza defense day, or et cetera? Yes, I Forma stuff, but not because I need to: just because I want to. Do I feel like going out for some Focus? Sure. Well, maybe not tomorrow. When I began, Warframe wasn't easy mode, and if I go do certain mission types with my main right now, it's still not easy mode. Either way, I'll continue to find a route to make it fun~ :3

[Caliboom]

I agree. Saryn is really in need of a nerf. She does too much damage and kills high level enemies with barely any effort. Having everything in the map killed because there's a Saryn in your squad and you not being able to kill anything because of her stealing your kills is not fun.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

On a confined map the enemy is Kill hogs.

On a map where you can spread out the enemy is Affinity Range and spawn generation....

I dont know how to fix the first one...... The second one we need infinte Affinity range,  we are all running the same damn mission we should all get the same damn xp/loot (its like some stupid middle of the road between co-op and competitive that I would just call toxic).   Likewise we should all get to have fun killing stuff if we are strong enough, but when you spread out the enemy only spawns for 1-2 guys(kill hogs who always make sure to chase spawns and run away from the group).   But when you split up the game should spawn enemies near every player ( this would certainly help people who would cry about afk'ers who I hardly ever see).

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I agree, Limbo does need a Nerf.

[Seele]

Saryn is guilty of the same crime for which Ember was repeatedly punished, but does it far more effectively than Ember did, and in a wider variety, and higher level, of content.

I think the most disappointing thing is that I now see newer players, MR <10, go straight for Saryn Prime and Atterax and then never build another new weapon. It's sad. She definitely needs to be toned down some.

[ActionPoohole]

 

24 minutes ago, AandOE said:

I don't seem to run into the types of Saryn folks that are mentioned here. Additionally, I run any type of mission just because I want to! Is today a Plains/Fortuna day, a quick-I-need-a-fast-capture-mission-before-I-leave day, a Cephalon alert day, a Ducat running day, an Operator-only fun time extravaganza defense day, or et cetera? Yes, I Forma stuff, but not because I need to: just because I want to. Do I feel like going out for some Focus? Sure. Well, maybe not tomorrow. When I began, Warframe wasn't easy mode, and if I go do certain mission types with my main right now, it's still not easy mode. Either way, I'll continue to find a route to make it fun~ :3

My friend and I find nothing difficult in this game, but then again we have been gaming for over 20 years so I guess that plays a part in it. I still find this game beyond easy and so does he.. Along with many players I discuss this issue with.

However, I guess this wouldn't be noticeable if you don't care... So maybe that's part of it. Perhaps you could say what you DO find challenging specifically to give more detail? What exactly is challenging? (I don't mean time consuming as a part of being challenging either) 🙂

19 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

I agree. Saryn is really in need of a nerf. She does too much damage and kills high level enemies with barely any effort. Having everything in the map killed because there's a Saryn in your squad and you not being able to kill anything because of her stealing your kills is not fun.

It's exactly like that, and they are just standing in the middle doing nothing which is extremely dull. They know it's not challenge because they claim "Lets have an easy run" and pick Saryn... Well that sorta goes hand in hand with Saryn being Easy. Because she is OP as all hell. Yes, 1 hour of doing nothing because 1 person wants to do everything yet is doing nothing to do everything; quite frustrating to say the least... Then the arrogance that comes with some of them is even more mind boggling.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN said:

On a confined map the enemy is Kill hogs.

On a map where you can spread out the enemy is Affinity Range and spawn generation....

I dont know how to fix the first one...... The second one we need infinte Affinity range,  we are all running the same damn mission we should all get the same damn xp/loot (its like some stupid middle of the road between co-op and competitive that I would just call toxic).   Likewise we should all get to have fun killing stuff if we are strong enough, but when you spread out the enemy only spawns for 1-2 guys(kill hogs who always make sure to chase spawns and run away from the group).   But when you split up the game should spawn enemies near every player ( this would certainly help people who would cry about afk'ers who I hardly ever see).

I'm not sure what your first sentence means?

Affinity range shouldn't be a thing. If things die in a mission, everyone should get the XP... If someone is AFK then that player should be dropped from the game by the system. But how do you determine exactly what is AFK when this game so heavily promotes the use of being AFK with frames such as Saryn, Limbo, Equinox etc..

Yes, the spawning in this game is terrible... I'm not sure of a fix to players running off alone, the majority of enemies should spawn near the majority of players though.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I agree, Limbo does need a Nerf.

Limbo needs to be redesigned. Having enemies just stand still is just countering gameplay mechanics almost entirely... Running into something and standing still so you can slash them with your melee? Just a dumb design IMO. I would never have implemented such a stupid frame ability myself. But hey, I'm not the developers, that's why I'm on here complaining about the ridiculousness of some of the choices they make because they affect my experience and many others.

My friend gets bored and frustrated when there is a Limbo, he is a veteran gamer like myself. I guess some people just like being lazy when they game as it gives them the opportunity to advance their inability to focus on 1 thing at 1 time.

[ActionPoohole]

11 minutes ago, Seele said:

Saryn is guilty of the same crime for which Ember was repeatedly punished, but does it far more effectively than Ember did, and in a wider variety, and higher level, of content.

I think the most disappointing thing is that I now see newer players, MR <10, go straight for Saryn Prime and Atterax and then never build another new weapon. It's sad. She definitely needs to be toned down some.

In these cases as well you need to be Nekros and have 250%-280% range Nekros to stop life support dropping and it will boil down to the Nekros not having enough range as opposed to the Saryn having too much range. Furthermore, it's just rude as a Saryn to not understand that you're taking over the game entirely.. If people play as Saryn and kill everything before anyone gets a chance, did they not care to ask anyone else if they want to be AFK for an hour?

I think it's not only poor gameplay design, but it's actually quite rude IMO. I've had a few people comment about it being rude, because it is. If I play as Nidus (Yes, he's strong, OP even) but he brings enemies into range of the group and everyone gets a chance to shoot the bundle. But at least people can interact with his abilities. Saryn are not interactive, they are just OP, game destroying and boring.

I play him because he's fun and doesn't get 1 shot. Playing as Volt is Okay, but he's super squishy. Then you play as something more balanced like Nekros with [Shield of Shadows] then you can sorta enjoy a more balanced game... Unfortunately, many of the weaker frames are just boring or can't keep up at all with the enemy scaling and will get 1 shot while not doing enough damage.

So if you're playing with a Saryn you have to be fully prepared to have your game taken over or just leave and start a new game? Which sucks and means that Saryn needs a rework. Toned down I don't think is good enough. I think she needs to be reworked to have better synergy with other team mates weapons and frames so everyone can play a part in Saryn's DPS being useful, much in the way that mag works (Though mag is just downright annoying with hallway gun blocking bubbles that soak up your damage and give it to them)...

I really hope DE start paying attention to gameplay mechanics more rather than pleasing newbies with easy mode.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Revert those goddamn spores the way they were, keep the tweaks to Molt  ( so there's no spore turret meta spam ) & Toxic lash, give Miasma back corrosive dmg and multiple corrosive ticks on each instance of dmg,

Is the new saryn spores OP as #*!% ? yes

Do i like the new saryn ? NO

can't give a fu_ck if she can scale into ten thousand lvl and still come out on top, i loved the old saryn with the viral spores and the toxin dots stacking and spreading

Personal opinion , take it or leave it

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by arm4geddon-117

[ActionPoohole]

54 minutes ago, xethier said:

A simple quick solution is to add range based damage falloff to warframe abilities.

A solution I'm very in favor of.

 

This has the potential to work with the right design in mind, wasn't exactly what I thought, I just thought lower range overall for all warframes and better designed enemy pathing to stop enemies wasting time getting to the points.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb ActionPoohole:

-snip-

Comments? Roll with it.

The only comment i can think of: You are right with every single word, unfortunately.

Oh one thing i might add:

vor 53 Minuten schrieb ActionPoohole:

So where could DE start on the road to fixing this woefully unbalanced game?

- Just fix the energy economy so map wiping abilities can be a thing... every so often instead of 24/7. Although i understand in the case of Saryn that'd not even be the only solution as her OPness actually stems from her ONE skill of all things, the cheapest and usually most BNB / "weakest" by design, which makes it all the more absurd.

Thing is Warframe seems to actually cater mostly to ppl who usually suck at action games and are happy to be able to feel "godlike" for once despite not having to invest even the slightest bit of effort (only precious time... lots and lots of time). And since there seem to be alot of ppl filling that niche and WF doing extremely well financially chances of fundamental change seem very slim to me.

[ActionPoohole]

1 minute ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

Revert those goddamn spores the way they were, keep the tweaks to Molt & Toxic lash, give Miasma back corrosive dmg and multiple corrosive ticks on each instance of dmg,

Is the new saryn spores OP as #*!% ? yes

Do i like the new saryn ? NO

can't give a fu_ck if she can scale into ten thousand lvl and still come out on top, i loved the old saryn with the viral spores and the toxin dots stacking and spreading

Personal opinion , take it or leave it

 

Fun over broken right?

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 1 Minute schrieb ActionPoohole:

Fun over broken right?

In b4 "but broken IS fun", "just play solo", "PVE games never need nerfing", "don't turn WF into COD/Destiny" and the usual thought terminating clichés...

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

1 minute ago, ActionPoohole said:

Fun over broken right?

pretty much, as strong as her spores are i don't enjoy the new mechanic, also i never had issues to have brutal spores dispatching high lvl armored units either prior to the changes with the right guns and not necessarily maiming strike melee toxic lash either

[xethier]

2 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

This has the potential to work with the right design in mind, wasn't exactly what I thought, I just thought lower range overall for all warframes and better designed enemy pathing to stop enemies wasting time getting to the points.

The reason I'd go with this over just reducing ranges... there are many utility frames (such as loki) that can't room clear with a power but loosing that range would radically limit certain builds. Additionally not all abilities ranges are actually based on range. (al la nova)

Kicking the frames who do absurd direct damage down a notch without actually reducing their range would suit me just fine. It's not a perfect solution, but it's as elegant and fair a compromise as I can think of.

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

I love it when I start an endless mission with randoms and the likes of Saryn show up, I'm there for the rewards not the journey (most of the time) and if it makes my life easier then great. Sure it's a bit of a knock to your ego when you think you've done pretty well and the after match stats show you barely did anything in comparison but it's soon forgotten about if you got what you wanted from the mission. 

I'll never support nerfs for powerful warframes, just build one yourself if you're that bothered. 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PS4)NachoZissou:

I love it when I start an endless mission with randoms and the likes of Saryn show up, I'm there for the rewards not the journey (most of the time) and if it makes my life easier then great. Sure it's a bit of a knock to your ego when you think you've done pretty well and the after match stats show you barely did anything in comparison but it's soon forgotten about if you got what you wanted from the mission.

Yeah well but the game is promoted as "3rd person shooter" and being "COOP", not as "flashy slot machine simulator... in space".

[ActionPoohole]

8 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

The only comment i can think of: You are right with every single word, unfortunately.

Oh one thing i might add:

- Just fix the energy economy so map wiping abilities can be a thing... every so often instead of 24/7. Although i understand in the case of Saryn that'd not even be the only solution as her OPness actually stems from her ONE skill of all things, the cheapest and usually most BNB / "weakest" by design, which makes it all the more absurd.

Thing is Warframe seems to actually cater mostly to ppl who usually suck at action games and are happy to be able to feel "godlike" for once despite not having to invest even the slightest bit of effort (only precious time... lots and lots of time). And since there seem to be alot of ppl filling that niche and WF doing extremely well financially chances of fundamental change seem very slim to me.

They're going to run into design issues for themselves too because they can't seem to balance frames out of a wet sloppy paper bag that already has no bottom to it. It's really unfortunate... Once a better game that provides a challenge, has good gunplay and caters to the loot and tinkering that I like then I'll leave Warframe like *snap*. As long as it is good. I'm just getting pretty bored of everything being so easy.

All I'm doing at the moment is rerolling Riven mods and getting all the stuff Baro brings. Apart from that I'm doing stuff all. MR17 with 1700+ hours in game and most of it I have been messing around and challenging myself.. But it's wearing thin. I would be higher level if I used all the stuff I made, but most of it is just sitting there in the foundry or in my inventory.

New weapon designs are not creative at all, just stat changes on state old weapon mechanics with new weapon models. Nothing creative or interesting. Most of the fun guns are pretty weak... All the Meta guns that are broken strong are boring.

I just don't get it. Where is the creativity? Even the map layouts are terrible. Then they brought Eidelons which are atrocious in terms of gameplay design. Then they brought 2 more Eidelons and they were just nastier versions with more spam.

I don't like what they're doing now and the old content has been left in tatters, even the [miter] still can't slice an enemy with a god roll riven. It's just a mess. :sad face:

Edited August 16, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

4 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Yeah well but the game is promoted as "3rd person shooter" and being "COOP", not as "flashy slot machine simulator... in space".

It is still that, it's not the case that Saryns dominate and invalidate every mission type. Besides let's not kid ourselves about the game being a grind fest where rewards are king. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by (PS4)NachoZissou

[ActionPoohole]

7 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

In b4 "but broken IS fun", "just play solo", "PVE games never need nerfing", "don't turn WF into COD/Destiny" and the usual thought terminating clichés...

Yeah exactly. 😛

6 minutes ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

pretty much, as strong as her spores are i don't enjoy the new mechanic, also i never had issues to have brutal spores dispatching high lvl armored units either prior to the changes with the right guns and not necessarily maiming strike melee toxic lash either

Yeah, well at least you got to interact with them before. Now it's just watch it lay waste.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

I love it when I start an endless mission with randoms and the likes of Saryn show up, I'm there for the rewards not the journey (most of the time) and if it makes my life easier then great. Sure it's a bit of a knock to your ego when you think you've done pretty well and the after match stats show you barely did anything in comparison but it's soon forgotten about if you got what you wanted from the mission. 

I'll never support nerfs for powerful warframes, just build one yourself if you're that bothered. 

Yeah well I might not support nerfs for powerful frames if I aimed with a mushroom stick either, but then again I wouldn't play a first person shooter on a console. That's just my opinion though because I value aiming my weapons rather than wobbling at them. Your other comment about building Saryn, maybe that's not the right comment to make if I said I think the mechanics suck. I'm bothered that she's a thing, not because I don't have. And I have Saryn Prime sitting at rank 0 in my inventory for a reason. So no thanks for your obviously thoughtless concern for the actual discussion that is taking place.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb ActionPoohole:

Then they brought Eidelons which are atrocious in terms of gameplay design.

Agreed. I seriously don't even really know much about their design despite having slayn buttloads because as soon as they start doing anything i go into operator mode and sit it out while being completely invincible. It's quite literally the solution to everything those "colossal" enemies might be throwing at us. In the end it's still only about cramping as much as possible into a single night cycle for max looting. How epic an encounter indeed.

Edit: Bottom line: There is a "win button" for everything in this game, be it spores or perma-invisibility or you name it... It really seems to be one ongoing concept of this game.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[ActionPoohole]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)NachoZissou said:

It is still that, it's not the case that Saryns dominate and invalidate every mission type. Besides let's not kid ourselves about the game being a grind fest where rewards are king. 

I'm pretty sure everyone realises what the point of the game is and everyone has their own opinion of what it is and what it should be.

However; if YOUR journey is always about the loot then you are basically left with nothing but a whole bunch of loot to do nothing with. No sense of achievement of overcoming anything except for time spent. I always thought that games were there to challenge people and provide entertainment.

But to get only loot? Are you just Scrooge McDucking it? I guess you enjoy swimming around in your mod collection because that what it sounds like.

I'm pretty sure that's what you're saying by logical deduction of your words.