Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[Me.KayOh]

Nay to OP's post.

If anyone wants to know why they changed her, go watch the prime time Reb had with Pablo when they announced her rework. And if you can do any sort of fact-based deduction, you'll also understand a few more reasons as to why they decided to ship her rework, when they did.

Since I don't want to write a  wall of text:

She's still a DoT frame (isnt that exactly what her current spores do?)

I don't understand how Spores is now called a "lazy" ability when OP wants toxin proc spreading from old spores back, along with casting spores on molt and popping spores causing damage. Like, you cant be serious right now right?

I also don't understand how it's a lazy ability when the OP specifically mentions that he/she cannot manage to keep the spore counter up when it gets to high numbers. Maybe its not the ability that's lazy and instead, it's just you?

I dont understand why you'd want the energy refund back on popping spores with toxic lash either. if you build Saryn correctly, energy is never a problem. Never.

 

All in all, i should at least be grateful that the OP isnt asking for her to be nerfed because "muh kills". (yea, that thread was and prolly still is a thing)

 

[kyori]

You should ask the one who reworked her into this, as to why he made her like this. 

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, ArchXDiablo said:

As a Nidus main, in endless runs I despise a good Saryn. Everything is dying before I get to use my skills to build stacks, let alone use my weapons. At which point, I sit comfy and do nothing. If they dare complain, welp, what do you want me to do when everything is dying before I get to it? I'm not gonna play a "catch the mob alive" ping pong game. The only way to ruin Saryn is to limit her ability to spread her spores by annihilating enemies before she gets to them, and the easiest frame for that is Mesa imho. 

I'm a nidus main... I have no problem pulling 30% damage against a meta saryn.  More if they aren't min maxed.  Looks like pebuk

[Klokwerkaos]

16 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

While i agree in general i feel in this case a nerf (damage-/range cap or the like) is inevitable anyway since her potency mostly stems from her 1 ability, which even in a balanced energy scenario should be on somewhat spammable side in my book. Directly compare damage capability of spores with Shuriken, Shock, FIreball etc... The discrepancy is extreme.

Compare to volt, equinox and other nuke frames and it is irrellavent.  If anything a well built volt will put saryn to shame every time.  Probably should nerf every frame though rather than address root issues,  that makes more sense 😉

Edited August 26, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

There’s a reason certain synergies were removed. Primary example being spores on molt. It was honestly a bad synergy. You’re taking a highly mobile ninja warrior and restricting them to hide behind a wall building “room nukes” it’s boring af. The whole design of Saryn 2.0 was one of DEs first attempts at ability synergy and it showed. Saryn 3.0 (technically 3.5) has those synergies removes, but it much more streamlined so you don’t have to do 50 steps just to set up an ability to do what it’s actually designed to do. Saryn is now a frame that can use her abilities together or independently in an effective manner. And forcing her back into the corner to just keep building room nukes on her molt is not something I ever want to see again.

[RealPandemonium]

4 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Compare to volt, equinox and other nuke frames and it is irrellavent.  If anything a well built volt will put saryn to shame every time.  Probably should nerf every frame though rather than address root issues,  that makes more sense 😉

Yeah, literally infinitely scaling damage and duration is weaker than "nuke frames."  Fair and balanced!  Your shilling is unbelievable.

[elZach]

Have you ever considered that Warframe might just not be the game for you?

The game being easy and a timekiller is ingrained in it's design. Personally I have more fun running long survivals without a cheese setup as well. But I've come to accept that the game isn't designed for this style of gameplay or at least not focused on it.

If you're bothered by frame/gameplay choices of other players, you're always free to just abort the mission.

Edited August 26, 2018 by elZach

[Andaius]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

Yeah, literally infinitely scaling damage and duration is weaker than "nuke frames."  Fair and balanced!  Your shilling is unbelievable.

"infinite scaling" is false, both the rate, and max ceiling are capped.  Not to mention if your team kills all the enemies and you can't get to more in 4 seconds you'll loose ALL your stacks. Sounds pretty fair to me so far. Did I also mention your damage starts out at like something like 10 damage a tick or so? So not only does it not build up to kill stuff in one shot (Something you don't want anyway as saryn as you want to build your stacks!) if you because too good at killing you'll burn out your spores and loose your stacks anyway as killing in 1 hit doesn't build much stacks at all and with no targets you start your decay even faster.

[Signs]

Most Saryn fanatics I've run into want Saryn 2.0 back and people that don't play Saryn as much like new Saryn. Not sure why this is but I thought I'd note it here...

[Signs]

8 hours ago, Me.Church said:

I dont understand why you'd want the energy refund back on popping spores with toxic lash either. if you build Saryn correctly, energy is never a problem. Never.

 

It's a synergy. And synergies are good.

8 hours ago, Me.Church said:

I also don't understand how it's a lazy ability when the OP specifically mentions that he/she cannot manage to keep the spore counter up when it gets to high numbers. Maybe its not the ability that's lazy and instead, it's just you?

Like I said, the scaling damage and decay is controversial. They conflict with one another. When Saryn gets super high spores damage, it's either extremely hard to find a Target to pop spores (because they die so quickly) or they just get 1 ticked by spores meaning every enemy with spores is dead. Which begins the decay.

[Andaius]

9 minutes ago, -Signs- said:

Most Saryn fanatics I've run into want Saryn 2.0 back and people that don't play Saryn as much like new Saryn. Not sure why this is but I thought I'd note it here...

I think if that was the case, it's to do with previous version of Saryns if you knew the tricks went from nothing to insane toxin procs on everything in very short order. While now you have the slow and somewhat micro intensive management of toxin stacks that slowly build up to be how she was in last incarnation.

New saryn is strong, and made easier to understand and use. The old tricks of burst damage saryn are gone and replaced with a easy to understand and less buggy damage stack ramp up.

7 minutes ago, -Signs- said:

It's a synergy. And synergies are good.

Like I said, the scaling damage and decay is controversial. They conflict with one another. When Saryn gets super high spores damage, it's either extremely hard to find a Target to pop spores (because they die so quickly) or they just get 1 ticked by spores meaning every enemy with spores is dead. Which begins the decay.

It's self balancing so to speak. It means she can't always be the "one shooting" whole map all the time as she was in 2.0 with the room nuke molt spore trick. To be a good saryn now you learn to keep a balance of how fast your spore stacks are and the enemy scaling and numbers.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Andaius

[Signs]

1 hour ago, Andaius said:

I think if that was the case, it's to do with previous version of Saryns if you knew the tricks went from nothing to insane toxin procs on everything in very short order. While now you have the slow and somewhat micro intensive management of toxin stacks that slowly build up to be how she was in last incarnation.

New saryn is strong, and made easier to understand and use. The old tricks of burst damage saryn are gone and replaced with a easy to understand and less buggy damage stack ramp up.

It's self balancing so to speak. It means she can't always be the "one shooting" whole map all the time as she was in 2.0 with the room nuke molt spore trick. To be a good saryn now you learn to keep a balance of how fast your spore stacks are and the enemy scaling and numbers.

The toxin procs weren't broken by any means. It just spreads the toxin proc from your weapons. Which against high armor, doesn't actually do much damage. Also, the setup was much more difficult without the current toxic lash. You actually needed primary or secondary that had decent status to proc toxin in order to spread it. Much more skill and interaction than the current "put infinite duration spores that just keeps getting stronger." I mean it's just my opinion.

[RealPandemonium]

7 hours ago, Andaius said:

"infinite scaling" is false, both the rate, and max ceiling are capped.  Not to mention if your team kills all the enemies and you can't get to more in 4 seconds you'll loose ALL your stacks. Sounds pretty fair to me so far. Did I also mention your damage starts out at like something like 10 damage a tick or so? So not only does it not build up to kill stuff in one shot (Something you don't want anyway as saryn as you want to build your stacks!) if you because too good at killing you'll burn out your spores and loose your stacks anyway as killing in 1 hit doesn't build much stacks at all and with no targets you start your decay even faster.

• Current damage per second is hard-capped at 100,000 damage.

Ok, so it only goes up to 300k DPS per target.  My bad, didn't want to mislead anyone there!

So, you don't want your damage to build up because you want your damage to be able to build up?  Lets not play this game.

The bottom line is that this is a power whose gameplay is literally "spam this a bit, then #*!% off to somewhere safe while it kills everything, then spam a little more, etc..."  It's great at killing anything and everything in the game, more or less autonomously.  It is a literal death sentence; once infected the enemy is going to die, sooner rather than later, regardless of its level or defense types.  To claim that "nuke frames" beat out Saryn at mass kiling is silly, especially since she is also one of these "nuke frames;" Miasma is right up there with the dumb radial nukes of our day, on top of Spores' silliness.  

 

[Me.KayOh]

7 hours ago, -Signs- said:

It's a synergy. And synergies are good.

Like I said, the scaling damage and decay is controversial. They conflict with one another. When Saryn gets super high spores damage, it's either extremely hard to find a Target to pop spores (because they die so quickly) or they just get 1 ticked by spores meaning every enemy with spores is dead. Which begins the decay.

Alright, let's repeat myself just for you.

1) You do not need the energy refund. And no "synergies are good" is a very lame excuse.

2) That's the point of the current spores though, so that you as the player have to manipulate your build to get it to the point where you are comfortable with how the spores. scale. There's many ppl who have discussed builds that work for them. Just because you cannot get the ability to work as intended does not mean that its broken in some manner and should be changed. Where you ppl get off with that type of entitlement is just beyond me.

[Me.KayOh]

5 hours ago, -Signs- said:

The toxin procs weren't broken by any means. It just spreads the toxin proc from your weapons. Which against high armor, doesn't actually do much damage. Also, the setup was much more difficult without the current toxic lash. You actually needed primary or secondary that had decent status to proc toxin in order to spread it. Much more skill and interaction than the current "put infinite duration spores that just keeps getting stronger." I mean it's just my opinion.

Just an fyi. The old spray-n-pray saryn is not "skill and interaction" Being able to properly manage your current spores is, and you seem to not be able to do that.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Me.Church

[Me.KayOh]

7 hours ago, Nation_X said:

there is nothing wrong with Saryn.

Thank you sir. I tip my hat to you.

[Me.KayOh]

7 hours ago, Andaius said:

It's self balancing so to speak. It means she can't always be the "one shooting" whole map all the time as she was in 2.0 with the room nuke molt spore trick. To be a good saryn now you learn to keep a balance of how fast your spore stacks are and the enemy scaling and numbers.

The OP clearly does not understand how to do this, and because of that, "Saryn must be changed because the old Saryn was easier for him to play"

 

>.>

[Asdryu]

To me Saryn is the most immaculate frame ever made.
She has and is been the birth of synergized abilities.

She's not "powerful", she's mainly a debuffer. Poison isn't destructive, it's debilitating. It destroys you from the inside, debilitating you to the point of making you empty, dead inside and so on the outside and that's exactly what Saryn does now.
She's not incredibly strong, but her powers grow and they grow more and more until there's something to chew on, just like a plague. The more the enemies, the easier the spread.

[Signs]

1 hour ago, Me.Church said:

Just an fyi. The old spray-n-pray saryn is not "skill and interaction" Being able to properly manage your current spores is, and you seem to not be able to do that.

Certainly more interaction than infinite duration and 100k scaling damage. Like I said, I can literally pop a spore and then go AFK and the enemy will die eventually. What other frame can do this level of interaction? But hey it's just my opinion.

[GPrime96]

8 minutes ago, -Signs- said:

Certainly more interaction than infinite duration and 100k scaling damage. Like I said, I can literally pop a spore and then go AFK and the enemy will die eventually. What other frame can do this level of interaction? 

Possibly Octavia

[Signs]

9 hours ago, Andaius said:

It's self balancing so to speak. It means she can't always be the "one shooting" whole map all the time as she was in 2.0 with the room nuke molt spore trick.

I'm going to the honest. Saryn 2.0 can only "one shot" the map until about level 60 with just molt + spores. The base damage + viral proc aren't enough.

9 hours ago, Andaius said:

To be a good saryn now you learn to keep a balance of how fast your spore stacks are and the enemy scaling and numbers.

Spore damage scales quicker than enemies until you are around 2h30 in MoT. Meaning you always lose spore damage from enemies dying too quickly.

[Signs]

2 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

Possibly Octavia

Octavia has duration meaning you need to come back every 30 seconds or so. Saryn I can't literally infect someone and go AFK for a day and it will still be dealing damage.

[Buttaface]

Saryn was way overbuffed. Can't have a pug mission now without tryhard saryns spamming their four... let alone the 1. Right up there with bad maimquinox, mesa and banshee tryhard/crutching. Giving TWO very powerful radial aoe to the same frame and synergizing them? Whoever thought that was a good idea is incompetent.

Many radial AOE powers in this game need strong nerfing down if WF is to be anything other than a mediocre game.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Buttaface

[Klokwerkaos]

3 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

• Current damage per second is hard-capped at 100,000 damage.

Ok, so it only goes up to 300k DPS per target.  My bad, didn't want to mislead anyone there!

So, you don't want your damage to build up because you want your damage to be able to build up?  Lets not play this game.

The bottom line is that this is a power whose gameplay is literally "spam this a bit, then #*!% off to somewhere safe while it kills everything, then spam a little more, etc..."  It's great at killing anything and everything in the game, more or less autonomously.  It is a literal death sentence; once infected the enemy is going to die, sooner rather than later, regardless of its level or defense types.  To claim that "nuke frames" beat out Saryn at mass kiling is silly, especially since she is also one of these "nuke frames;" Miasma is right up there with the dumb radial nukes of our day, on top of Spores' silliness.  

 

You don't play saryn the way I do.  You'd hate me even more because I'm active and kill stuff even more... but you know, I'm sure it's built into the argument that it's wrong to be lazy and it's wrong to kill stuff even though simaris says "kill everything as fast as you can"... having it both ways much?

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

They nerf her, you'll be begging for something else to be nerfed tomorrow.