Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[schilds]

Don't get me wrong. Saryn's kit is now more coherent than before: every ability is useful, they mesh with each other, and you need to actively use them. There were specific things I liked more about her old kit, but I think that, on the whole, the new kit is an improvement. Spreading spores is fun, it's just the damage needs to tone down. Given that the spore counter fluctuates in some kind of complicated equilibrium - depending on spore damage, counter decay, enemy spawn rates, density and health - they probably need to tweak both the ramp up and decay curves a bit.

[felixsylvaris]

This is another thing that Saryn kit is fun. And you need to blow spores, or have mates to blow them, and you can use spores as corrosive proc, and there are little interactions of spores and miasma, or passive and status. Even using molt as bait is fun.

However spores ramp a bit too fast, and the scaling is too high (of spores), and miasma could be less nuke, more dot based. But it is more about numbers, not kit in general.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb felixsylvaris:

But it is more about numbers, not kit in general.

Agreed.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor einer Stunde schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

What is the point of collecting everything if you don't plan on actually using it?

Exactly. What's the point if one frame outshines every other option by such huge margins?

vor einer Stunde schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

You use the correct tools for the correct task to make things easier

I can live with that as long as "easier" doesn't mean defeating any challenge whatsoever while practically soloing.

vor einer Stunde schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

Now Warframes are about flavor and personal preference right now! The only way to emphasis that even more is by making every frame the same... same power ranges, same power effects, same damage just with different colors. They aren't tools anymore, they are skins.

That's just hypebole. It's not like "lesser" frames are skin variations of each other right now. Atlas is not a skin of Titania, neither is Nyx one of Harrow or Revenant (who's terribly underrated imho btw) etc.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

6 hours ago, VPrime96 said:

This mod + Vitality + Steel Fiber + Hunter Adrenaline helps me Solo ESO up to Zone 8, And Ani, Void at lvl 200+ while playing her as a Melee Frame with my Hybrid built Atterax. But Saryn is still Squishy with that mod if not Careful or not using a Ancient Healer Specter.

That mod requires max rank with factions.

[(PSN)Chel-El]

14 hours ago, schilds said:

Here is how we know Saryn is out of kilter with every other frame: whenever a discussion about the capabilities of a frame comes up, Saryn is the inevitable comparison. Saryn's capabilities are now commonly used to justify proposed changes to other frames.

This. She became an annoyance both in game and in here. It’s not enough that she became OP, some ppl have to trash others by using their new OP Saryn as a metric. 

Ive seen exactly this with Reaper in OW. Senseless ‘why this hero when you can Reaper’ topics with that player having very low usage on that hero being trashed. A double nerf ensued for certain. 

Why nerf Saryn? She is effectively melting stuff as quickly as old Ember so ofc the attention I’m drawn to her now

By the way, someone said Saryn’s spores are special in Onslaught, what do they mean it does not reset?

 

 

 

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

Saryn is balance. I remember stamina. I remember when you had to equip abilities. I remember void keys. 

I remember when excal was consider junk. I remember old excal. Don't nerf Saryn. She my favorite warframe.

[(PSN)Chel-El]

Saryn the new Ember minus the energy drain! 

But fine, since u asked so nicely 

Nerf. Saryn. Hard.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)Captain_Bonecold:

Saryn is balance. I remember stamina. I remember when you had to equip abilities. I remember void keys. 

I remember when excal was consider junk. I remember old excal.

And what does that have to do with anything?

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)Captain_Bonecold:

Don't nerf Saryn. She my favorite warframe.

And why wouldn't she be after she's brought in line a bit? If your fav frame just happens to be "insert-META-cheese-of-the-month-here": Don't fret, some will always be the objectively best for a job (there shouldn't be landslides like that between them and the others tho imo).

My fav frame is Volt. I'm all for renerfing Discharge. Crazy huh.

Edit: I remember when Volt shields were uncapped and their crit multiplier stacked. It was silly.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[ZodiacShinryu]

30 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Exactly. What's the point if one frame outshines every other option by such huge margins?

Hmm? Outshine how? Lets focus on Saryn because that is the main subject of the thread.

As a tool, Saryn is a great choice for Damage (especially over time; aka 'sustain' damage) and AoE potential in hordes. She was specifically designed to fill those roles and she does little else. So when we talk about how she does it in that context we need to bring in her proper competitors. Loki is capable of a lot of damage with stealth multipliers and weapon choice but Loki isn't specifically a damage frame nor should people expect him to compete with her. Frost or Limbo? Frost has certain damage and AoE capabilities in Avalanche along with its strip but Frost also has lots of CC and one of the best defensive options for protecting an area. Limbo has less damage but provides thee best CC available along with DE making him easier to use and provides all kinds of support. Chroma and Rhino? Both can be built for great damage gains as well as great defensive gains but their AoE capabilities has a lot to be desired (at least damage wise though Rhino sports a powerful CC in Stomp). Ember, Banshee, and Equinox? These are her closest competitors. You know what they all have in common? They have way better burst than Saryn. Ember and Banshee (with augment) are easily going to dominate the lower levels with cheaper/larger AoEs that have higher bursts (Saryn can sort of side step it with Energize and some luck but then we are diverging from the original topic) and as the levels get higher they still have better targeted burst options. Equinox has a "scale" of her own that you build as you need (and technically potentially most powerful damage ability), she also provides loads more support. There is also Mesa which with an exalted and some forethought has much more effective burst than Saryn even far into her stacks; Mag, with some proper set up has incredible AoE burst while having relative safety from most sources of damage; and Volt, which has a powerful CC and damage source in his 4 along with various other utilities for other weapon play.

So who is outshining who exactly? Just to be facetious, Spy? Is she outshining Loki (or any other stealth frame)? How about Mobile Defense type missions? Over Frost and Limbo? Even in kill dependent types, in nearly every non-endless situation Saryn isn't my first pick (anymore); I mean she is fine but if we want to speak of top of the top, there are easier and faster burst options. How about missions where there are special target(s) you want to get rid of quickly? Chroma and Rhino are more than enough for those single targets situations while Ember, Banshee, and Mesa still have an edge in burst for both single and localized groups. We finally get to Endless types (even then it is mostly just Survival and Onslaught) where she can actually make use of that mechanic on Spores more consistently where she gets her chance to shine. The point is you have to wait for Saryn, you don't need to wait (except certain extents on Equinox) on anyone else. From the sounds of it she is a tool specifically designed to take care of large groups in relation to active uptime (you know, in those endless mission everyone cries about); if you are particularly upset about that I don't know what to tell you. What I will say is that I (or likely DE for that matter) is going to care about the far reaches of Endless where she will fall off the slowest of all the frames ability damage wise even while still technically not being the potentially most powerful. The rewards are the same after rotation C on every game type, no exception. All the frames perform well enough to Lv120 where you pick what you want based on how hard you want to work or simply what you like or feel like at the time.

Simply, she is simple to use to get her gains isn't the same as being the most useful or even powerful.

1 hour ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

I can live with that as long as "easier" doesn't mean defeating any challenge whatsoever while practically soloing.

That is a problem of mission type, enemy relevance, fundamental gameplay mechanics and community expectations not particularly the frame itself. There are all kinds of frames that fill certain niches that remove all challenge from certain things. That is because missions are generally straightforward and mechanically simplistic and the community refuses (it is almost always kicking and screaming the whole way) any attempt for DE to give enemies any reasonable countermeasure against us (along with the generally unnecessary stat bloating).

Someone said it somewhere else I don't remember exactly where but they said something along the lines of 'Even while this is a Co-op game the community is basically allergic to teamwork.'  It makes perfect sense with that mentality (and I have been around a long time and this has nearly always been the case in Warframe) that people prefer to do things in a fashion that 'idiot-proofs' the mission in respect to others. Warframe has always basically been a solo game you can play with others in, not incredibly different than say Halo:CE with a split screen Co-op feature.

I can understand some people like the illusion of being useful even if they never really were. If you got a min-range Cata Limbo in your Mobile Defense or Excavation, you have people more than happy to shoot enemies not that they actually contributed anything to the mission as a whole. And there is any number of frames that do similar feats, only exacerbated by the people who are actually good at the game vs people that are not.

1 hour ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

That's just hypebole. It's not like "lesser" frames are skin variations of each other right now. Atlas is not a skin of Titania, neither is Nyx one of Harrow or Revenant (who's terribly underrated imho btw) etc.

I mean a little I guess. It all has to do with point of view. But you are attempting to twist my words but I am not the one to say "lesser" of any frame. I said it in the other post "Warframes are tools". I already pick my frame out of personal choice and preference. I see situations where I might pick one over the other and since I am not particularly interested in a meta game for going deep into endless (which is a personal choice for everyone), all the frames perform as I make them for the task I need. I have been in 3-4hr survivals and it is not fun (to me) when I could do whatever I want and the first couple of rotations as I choose to. I like Saryn but she certainly isn't as crazy as people make her out to be (especially outside the areas where she by design will function well) but she was arguably stronger before this rework. Everyone likes to say she was buffed but imo she was nerfed (as far as Spores go). But I will say she is more internally balanced and interesting to play now.

But if you want to make a game of personal freedom more than efficiency you have to fulfil some requirements. The base task has to be easy enough for everyone (not a challenging game overall, ignoring deep endless; mostly what warframe is now) or you accept that specialized cases dominate certain tasks but the game provides a number of tasks. If there are too many differences you have to smooth out the overall experience (making everything more the same). If you want to keep those differences you are going to gravitate to efficiency almost every time. For example, if you needed to climb a tall cliff/chasm/duct to escape something; who are you going to pick Atlas or Titania? It leaves less room for personal preference especially if you bring others that don't care about how you feel about the situation. You either equalize their abilities (make a situation where they might as well just be skins) or you accept the situation as tool choice. Personally and currently, it is my biggest gripe with Excalibur Prime/Umbra. Ultimately, you pick your poison. However I have never seen a game where personal preference has ever beaten efficiency when you bring more players together in any long term case really. You almost always just move the problem somewhere else.

[Klokwerkaos]

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1004502-suggestions-to-fix-nerf-nukers-vs-put-your-own-group-together-by-fixing-each-mission-type/

[Broble]

Saryn's a pretty good frame. I notice that she can be built for pretty much anything. Every ability has utility, which is good.

D polarity for aura, good base stats, and molt augment allow enhanced survivability and escape from terrible situation. Toxic lash greatly augments melee oriented saryns(specifically those carrying condition overload) and allows for enhanced spread of bubbles. Spores cover entire map with corrosive procs and damage. Contagion combos with the spores, and applies viral proc.

Saryn is going to get nerfed regardless of what we say in this thread. If I had the responsibility to make changes, I would make it so that spores do absolutely no damage while still apply the necessary proc, and either make it so that contagion scales off of spore count mechanic(however that thing works), or alter the ability entirely. My ambition would be to turn saryn into a debuffer that applies viral/corrosive procs, then does the killing with weapons/melee.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

4 minutes ago, Broble said:

Saryn's a pretty good frame. I notice that she can be built for pretty much anything. Every ability has utility, which is good.

D polarity for aura, good base stats, and molt augment allow enhanced survivability and escape from terrible situation. Toxic lash greatly augments melee oriented saryns(specifically those carrying condition overload) and allows for enhanced spread of bubbles. Spores cover entire map with corrosive procs and damage. Contagion combos with the spores, and applies viral proc.

Saryn is going to get nerfed regardless of what we say in this thread. If I had the responsibility to make changes, I would make it so that spores do absolutely no damage while still apply the necessary proc, and either make it so that contagion scales off of spore count mechanic(however that thing works), or alter the ability entirely. My ambition would be to turn saryn into a debuffer that applies viral/corrosive procs, then does the killing with weapons/melee.

Your idea would killed Saryn off. 

I already see less ash in game play. Right now saryn is balance. 

[Broble]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Your idea would killed Saryn off. 

I already see less ash in game play. Right now saryn is balance. 

How would my proposition kill the frame?

Edited September 2, 2018 by Broble

[GPrime96]

28 minutes ago, Broble said:

My ambition would be to turn saryn into a debuffer that applies viral/corrosive procs, then does the killing with weapons/melee.

Not sure if you played Pre - Rework Saryn but she was a Viral Spreading, Debuffing, Molt spamming nuker compare to how she's now. Now, she more of a Damage Dealing KPS frame.

[Broble]

3 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

Not sure if you played Pre - Rework Saryn

I think maybe I did. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention then. Why did saryn need the rework in the first place?

[GPrime96]

9 minutes ago, Broble said:

I think maybe I did. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention then. Why did saryn need the rework in the first place?

I’m not sure why but Pablo decided to rework her after ESO got added to the game.

[schilds]

She was reworked because while she was strong, her mechanics were a mess, mainly spores. Go back and read threads on her pre-rework and you'll find nobody could agree on exactly how spores worked or even whether the wiki was correct.

 

I suspect DE also didn't like the molt spore interaction with everyone sitting in the middle of the map (same reason Ember was changed). In fact, a hidden cooldown was added to spore reinfection some time last year to tone down the molt + spore combo. Nobody even seemed to pick up the change (including the wiki), but it basically killed normal spore gameplay. You may recall exploding hikou and other rapid fire, aoe, spore popping builds. All of them were made irrelevant sometime last year. If you were spore spreading normally (i.e. not off molt) you'd suddenly end up with no spores on any enemy.

Edited September 2, 2018 by schilds

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

As a tool, Saryn is a great choice for Damage (especially over time; aka 'sustain' damage) and AoE potential in hordes.

Which makes up roughly 80% of regular gameplay easily.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

Ember and Banshee (with augment) are easily going to dominate the lower levels with cheaper/larger AoEs that have higher bursts (Saryn can sort of side step it with Energize and some luck but then we are diverging from the original topic) and as the levels get higher they still have better targeted burst options.

I consider Banshee still lazy and boring, the resonant rework made her only worse imo and stackable Sonar makes for way over the top damage potential. Yes, Ember is still a potent DPS frame but the consensus seems to be she was outright broken by her WOF nerf just because you gotta manage energy a bit. The reason? Frames like Saryn look so much better in comparison. Same goes for Ash. He's actually in quite the good place now but you hardly see him in ESO (despite being fit for job) just because of being outshined so easily.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

Equinox has a "scale" of her own that you build as you need (and technically potentially most powerful damage ability), she also provides loads more support.

Yes, she and Volt seem to be main competitors atm, which isn't that much tho. I think endless scaling damage abilities are a bad idea in a game which features endless mission which are support to force you out at some point tho. This also concerns Octavia (which is arguably only balanced by her ugly as sin appearance j/k) and Covert Lethality.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

Mag, with some proper set up has incredible AoE burst while having relative safety from most sources of damage

Again: Agreed. Mag is great. Most of the community however wouldn't even try her out apparently in the face of much more convenient solutions... like Saryn.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

So who is outshining who exactly? Just to be facetious, Spy? Is she outshining Loki (or any other stealth frame)?

Yes, spy missions are another case of asking for pretty much mandatory frames, namely Loki or Ivara. They defeat any kind of actual stealth gameplay which those missions were designed for. Imagine you had the choice to start a "real" stealth game like MGS with the invisibity belt, it'd be considered absurd. That's why i also pleaded for high level Spy missions (like in Sorties) to feature "nullifying" areas in the past. But that's another story.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

All the frames perform well enough to Lv120 where you pick what you want based on how hard you want to work or simply what you like or feel like at the time.

In theory: Yes. Reality: 90% of ppl go the way of least resistance, always. Check the stats Rebecca reveald on Devstream recently.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

That is a problem of mission type, enemy relevance, fundamental gameplay mechanics and community expectations not particularly the frame itself. There are all kinds of frames that fill certain niches that remove all challenge from certain things. That is because missions are generally straightforward and mechanically simplistic and the community refuses (it is almost always kicking and screaming the whole way) any attempt for DE to give enemies any reasonable countermeasure against us (along with the generally unnecessary stat bloating).

On this we can agree. Missions could be alot more sophisticated and ask for more coordination. I personally wouldn't even mind actual "Frame-" or "certain frametype only" Sortie missions, tailored around a specific setup of e.g. DPS-CC-Support-Defender or you name it... It's supposed to be endgame after all. But yeah i gess DE don't want to go too exclusive since most income seems to come from newbish-intermediate players. Sadly, for vets. Man, i really miss raids... While the challenge mostly stemmed from puzzles which were hardly connected to basic gameplay at least they asked for some communication and variation. They were so much more interesting for endgame than ESO... oh well.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

I can understand some people like the illusion of being useful even if they never really were.

Me too. That's why i'm for bringing certain frames into line so they don't make look the rest of the squad redundant. Like Saryn atm.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

But you are attempting to twist my words but I am not the one to say "lesser" of any frame

Sorry, wasn't my intention. But what you wrote suggested that every single frame should excel at a certain mission type, thus being the appropriate tool. Which with the every growing number of frames just isn't even possible. The frames i listed are widely considered "lesser" by the community because of the DPS dominating META nowadays, with Saryn being one, if not the, most prominent representative. Atlas and Revenant simply aren't specialized enough, but more than adequately potent jack of all trades in my book. Nyx (like Vaubs) represents pure CC which was pretty much made redundant altogether thanks to powercreep (Raids were their last stand). I love Harrow mechanically but people prefer Trinity 99% of the time since she provides far more energy with far less effort. It's these kind of crass discrapancies i consider as just too extreme and actually hurting variety, even if theoretically provided.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

However I have never seen a game where personal preference has ever beaten efficiency when you bring more players together in any long term case really. You almost always just move the problem somewhere else.

You might be right. Still i feel there are gaps to be at least somewhat closed. I don't wanna make all frames uniform (and they wouldn't have to for at least a bit more balance) but like i said if you rarely ever see a frame except Loki or Ivara in Spy missions i consider it a problem, especially considering the sheer degree of trivialization these two provide. That's not just a tool, it's more like skipping the mission. For the star chart? Well alright, since you're most likely still busy optimizing your mods while clearing it... but endgame should look different in my book, which is admittedly purely subjective. I know some ppl feel like they earned skipping missions after a certain progress but if that's all that's left in the end... dunno. Then the game really only becomes some kind of glorified slot machine imo.

You raised some good points how missions could ask for more roles in general, tho! Thanks for the constructive discussion wthout falling into the usual "just play solo" tropes 🙂

Edited September 2, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[miomima]

I agree with almost everything, I think that all frames right now is overpowered. And i find only one solution to this - cooldowns on abilities or charge up metter (hello overwatch). 

I played as Saryn myself, and what can i say - if all frames right now is overpowered, then she is bassicaly batman - have everything from the best:

1) Have awesome stats - possibility to have more than 1200 hp with over 1000 armor, on top of that her skin remove all status effects and draw agro (and give her speed to escape or speedrun mission), on top of that her 3rd ability add damage block % to any weapon up to 90%, so she bassicaly immortal while holding block button, even frames that considired as tank-supports not even close to her in survivability.

2) Have unlimited CC with miasma spam while removing half of enemy health in process.

3) Remove all armor and deal billion damage with 2 button presses with range+strenght build, all you need is throw 1 spore, use 3rd ability and then shoot ones (not even need to aim for spore), your job is done, you can watch your damage counter ramping up and you see all this corrosive procs behind walls.

how to fix saryn to be enjoyable to play with?:
- remove range scaling for spores.
- make spores only being able to transfer to enemies in line of sight from affected enemy position.
- remove CC from miasma at all.

P.S.: There only one frame that can compete with Saryn damage wise - its equinox, because she use saryn damage to accumulate her own and then just delete enemies from the map, but is not as cancer as Saryn because of how this damage produced. But as i say in the begining - all frames need to be nerfed.
Right now, with decent build you can run 2 hours survival without even slight possibility to fail, and that need to be changed. Not by increasing enemy scaling (because enemy scaling is dumb idea in the first place, but by limiting frames abilities, so you gona start to rely on your weapon, and maybe even teamates.

Edited September 2, 2018 by miomima

[miomima]

Also, i like Spy missions, such a shame that there that low amount of tile sets, and now i just run through them with eyes clossed on any frame.

[felixsylvaris]

There is a problem that community could be very creative when it comes to nerfing others frame. With NERF EVERYTHING IN THIS FRAME is favorite solution.

But in Saryn (and some others frames) the kit is ok, but the numbers are wrong.

Spores scaling damage to 100k is very high, which is a bit too much for 25e abilitty.

So minimal changes would be:

• lower the damage caps to spores to 300*AP per spore (max 12 spores on victim)
• remove initial decay of 20%, only first tick of 10%/AD
• Change numbers in toxic lash to 50%/100%

So no random changes, but adressing the problem. Also keep minimal changes to not brake a frame which finally have some coherent kit.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by felixsylvaris

[IRVoidGuru]

2 hours ago, miomima said:

I agree with almost everything, I think that all frames right now is overpowered. And i find only one solution to this - cooldowns on abilities or charge up metter (hello overwatch).

Oh god plz no! 

Quote

I played as Saryn myself, and what can i say - if all frames right now is overpowered, then she is bassicaly batman - have everything from the best:

1) Have awesome stats - possibility to have more than 1200 hp with over 1000 armor, on top of that her skin remove all status effects and draw agro (and give her speed to escape or speedrun mission), on top of that her 3rd ability add damage block % to any weapon up to 90%, so she bassicaly immortal while holding block button, even frames that considired as tank-supports not even close to her in survivability.

Whereas this is true. I'd like to state that the 90% damage reduction is only from frontal attacks.

Quote

2) Have unlimited CC with miasma spam while removing half of enemy health in process.

Recasting my miasma does not restart the CC on enemies. as stated in the original post of her changes by DE

Quote

3) Remove all armor and deal billion damage with 2 button presses with range+strenght build, all you need is throw 1 spore, use 3rd ability and then shoot ones (not even need to aim for spore), your job is done, you can watch your damage counter ramping up and you see all this corrosive procs behind walls.

Can you actually show me a screenshot of your saryn alone doing a billion damage? 

Quote

how to fix saryn to be enjoyable to play with?:
- remove range scaling for spores.
- make spores only being able to transfer to enemies in line of sight from affected enemy position.
- remove CC from miasma at all.
P.S.: There only one frame that can compete with Saryn damage wise - its equinox, because she use saryn damage to accumulate her own and then just delete enemies from the map, but is not as cancer as Saryn because of how this damage produced. But as i say in the begining - all frames need to be nerfed.

You want line of sight and to remove range scaling from spores? Why not just kill her player usage rate all together.

To remove CC from my miasma would be to remove one of her most survivable abilities. And what would this help?

Cool Downs and a Nerf on every frame, I can only strongly say I hope for the sake of the percentage of players, who play on a daily basis, that these suggested changes never get implemented

 

To add something constructive here I honestly believe saryn was perfectly fine in the revision before this one. I miss casting spores off molt, I miss viral spores, I miss my 2energy per spore popped allowing smart players like me to gain energy for channeling

Edited September 2, 2018 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[Xolgys]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb felixsylvaris:

Miasma is cheap, so try hards could spam it in low level missions, but cc in miasma is just  electric stagger.

So minimal changes would be:

• lower the caps to spores to 500*AP
• remove initial decay of 20%, only first tick of 10%/AD
• Change numbers in toxic lash to 50%/100%
• Increase Miasma cost to 100e, and duration to 8s (for stun and ticks). Less spamable.

So no random changes, but adressing the problem. Also keep minimal changes to not brake a frame which finally have some coherent kit.

 

ur changes would do exactly nothing and changes arent required. saryn gets "flamed" because of 1 single game mode which has perfect conditions for her. the only place u see saryn frequently is ESO and just cause of 1 game mode people cry again, until the kill-nerf comes and people cry again because she received the ember treatment, or link trinity treatment...or or or. there were enough of these extreme nerfs in the past, we dont need more of them. also i dont get it why people cry about a frame being successful in a certain game mode. everywhere else other frame are much more dominant than saryn but noone starts crying. the moment one frame has a mode where it shines all hell breaks loose...its 1 game mode only ! there will always be a frame thats best in ESO because its such a specific game mode with lots of close enemy spawns. if its not saryn its equinox...or volt, or mesa. even frost can build his 4 to nuke an AOE. people dont seem to get it that there will always be a way thats better than others. also, its still totally possible to outdmg saryn in ESO, but the easiest thing to do is blame something else, just dont look at the very own build/gameplay no no, thats surely never the "issue", the issue is always a frame's balance yes yes.

vor 18 Minuten schrieb felixsylvaris:

There is a problem that community could be very creative when it comes to nerfing others frame. With NERF EVERYTHING IN THIS FRAME is favorite solution.

But in Saryn (and some others frames) the kit is ok, but the numbers are wrong.

Spores scaling damage to 100k is very high, which is a bit too much for 25e abilitty.

 

i agree on the nerfing part...its so annoying to see a "nerf this or that" thread so very often and then its not even really justified, not in the slightest. there were some things nerfed in the past where i would agree, but also many things where i would say that they were uneccessary, at least it was too extreme of a nerf.

the point about spores though is not the damage itself, the armor removal is way more important. saryn cant make full use of spore's ramping to such extremes because she lacks the CC and survivability for such long runs where that damage would matter and if she tried to do such runs by camping somewhere and keeping hallways locked down for kills per second spore again would mostly serve as armor removal/reduction, the dmg would still be slow, riscy and even then mostly a bonus. on her own she only has spore and that could backfire very quickly if she cant keep the stacks high enough to deal with really high level enemies. but again, thats not really where she blongs right now since the toxin procc spread got removed from her kit and was the big point of her for such runs. if anything saryn would be an addition in a team for armor removal but why when there's 4x CP which does a better job than spore. the dmg of her spores is riscy, since it can drop fast if she cant keep it up well and even then there are better, much more reliable and silly ways to wipe high lvl enemies in an AoE, saryn surely is not amongst the strong ones there whatever spores can scale up to be. there are frames who can reach millions of dmg per tick with the right setup and even on their own where saryns spore looks like a cute tickle compared.

[Xolgys]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb miomima:

I agree with almost everything, I think that all frames right now is overpowered. And i find only one solution to this - cooldowns on abilities or charge up metter (hello overwatch). 

I played as Saryn myself, and what can i say - if all frames right now is overpowered, then she is bassicaly batman - have everything from the best:

1) Have awesome stats - possibility to have more than 1200 hp with over 1000 armor, on top of that her skin remove all status effects and draw agro (and give her speed to escape or speedrun mission), on top of that her 3rd ability add damage block % to any weapon up to 90%, so she bassicaly immortal while holding block button, even frames that considired as tank-supports not even close to her in survivability.

2) Have unlimited CC with miasma spam while removing half of enemy health in process.

3) Remove all armor and deal billion damage with 2 button presses with range+strenght build, all you need is throw 1 spore, use 3rd ability and then shoot ones (not even need to aim for spore), your job is done, you can watch your damage counter ramping up and you see all this corrosive procs behind walls.

how to fix saryn to be enjoyable to play with?:
- remove range scaling for spores.
- make spores only being able to transfer to enemies in line of sight from affected enemy position.
- remove CC from miasma at all.

P.S.: There only one frame that can compete with Saryn damage wise - its equinox, because she use saryn damage to accumulate her own and then just delete enemies from the map, but is not as cancer as Saryn because of how this damage produced. But as i say in the begining - all frames need to be nerfed.
Right now, with decent build you can run 2 hours survival without even slight possibility to fail, and that need to be changed. Not by increasing enemy scaling (because enemy scaling is dumb idea in the first place, but by limiting frames abilities, so you gona start to rely on your weapon, and maybe even teamates.

no offense intended, but i do really want to know how many games u have played with saryn and against which enemy level...because i cant stop shaking my head reading this.