Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

3 minutes ago, Andaius said:

See^ If you actually kill the enemies and no let them stay alive the longest possible time to ramp up Stacks Saryns always start and stay in low damage tick mode. Saryn cannot nuke level 30 guys in an instant with spores unless you have some serious stacks riding along.

Yup another way to make saryn cry is i bring maxxed range banshee prime or i follow the saryn with mirage prime maxxed range prism then hom lenze and wow the saryns either complain about kill stealing or they leave squad lol.

[Andaius]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

Yup another way to make saryn cry is i bring maxxed range banshee prime or i follow the saryn with mirage prime maxxed range prism then hom lenze and wow the saryns either complain about kill stealing or they leave squad lol.

I think the most I've managed to get was like 700+ stacks so thats 700 or so damage a second on infected enemies. Compare that to your weapons or other AoE damage frames abilities. Plus you have to remember if your spores deal so much damage that they kill too fast that means Less stacks built up, more time in decay mode.

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

13 hours ago, ActionPoohole said:

Yes, win buttons everywhere... I honestly think a lot of this has come from the console generation. 😕 PC games have been affected like this for ages. But then again, even console games used to be harder! So maybe it's a generational thing. The things that people say are hard after failing a couple of times! It's just absolutely ridiculous. Old games were literally all about failing hard and brutally, till that one day on that perfect run you might get half way through the game... or even, almost impossibly: to the end. Now I'm not saying that Warframe needs to brutalise people like the old Sega Classics, but just SOME sort of challenge would be nice, because this game is even easy for even the most inept of players, which is a bit sad.

I really don't see why this game can't cater to both.

Warframe allowed everyone to play, yet more avid raiders could do the hardcore content and get extra and better loot. Why is everyone rewarded the same in this game? It's all about time invested and not actual challenges overcome.

And yet i see zero mention of what warframe YOU play?

General advice get primed mods and maxxed them , get arcane energize r3, magus arcane elevate 2 full sets , 6 to 7 forma on warframes and weapons 500 energy pizzas, get at least  force specters like trinity or frost rhino nidus then it does not matter what the squad brings

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

5 minutes ago, Andaius said:

I think the most I've managed to get was like 700+ stacks so thats 700 or so damage a second on infected enemies. Compare that to your weapons or other AoE damage frames abilities. Plus you have to remember if your spores deal so much damage that they kill too fast that means Less stacks built up, more time in decay mode.

700 damage a second ?

300 strength rhino prime roar plus lenze and everything and i mean everything dies or ice chroma kills everything etc.

 

Riven opticor plus roar 90k damage ,

Rhino stomp after roar everything dies move stomp repeat repeat repeat repeat most kills most damage done due to maxxed mods .

Edited August 17, 2018 by (PS4)aiptekfanboy
Rhino plus amprex equals most kills

[Andaius]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

And yet i see zero mention of what warframe YOU play?

General advice get primed mods and maxxed them , get arcane energize r3, magus arcane elevate 2 full sets , 6 to 7 forma on warframes and weapons 500 energy pizzas, get at least  force specters like trinity or frost rhino nidus then it does not matter what the squad brings

I looked him up and indeed his most played is Octavia. Another sit back and let Mallet build up damage. So comparatively I guess he would be mad that he also doesn't want to shoot enemies to build up damage reflection on the Mallet. So spores killing stuff keeps the Mallet low damage too.

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

2 minutes ago, Andaius said:

I looked him up and indeed his most played is Octavia. Another sit back and let Mallet build up damage. So comparatively I guess he would be mad that he also doesn't want to shoot enemies to build up damage reflection on the Mallet. So spores killing stuff keeps the Mallet low damage too.

Oh octavia in squad ? Its banshee primed time or mesa time or frost rhino nidus equinox time

I allways tell folks its not the warframe or weapon its the maxxed mods 

[DjKaplis]

To OP - it seems you think that you are an excellent game developer and could do much better job. I'm looking forward to the day when you create your own awesome game where no one can find anything to complain about, please let us know so we can check it out.

 

Regarding Saryn - I have played as Saryn and have played with Saryn in random groups and what you wrote is false, she can't deal any damage while being afk and when she isn't afk other team members always have enemies to fight even if Saryn does most damage. Other players doing more damage or killing more enemies has never made the game less fun for me personally and quite honestly I don't understand what your problem is.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Kotsender_Quasimir:

Yeah i tried her in various high level (in b4 "high lvl starts at 300+ / 500+ / 9999 etc... Yeah no, it does not) defenses and survivals. 

Nah like, normal content where you don't have a constant stream of enemys and don't have to bother with damage decay. Where both spores and miasama do comedic damage and have constant management attached to them. Where you'll definitly end up biting the dust way before they do.

ESO doesn't really count since it's a confirmed bug in a more then ideal envirement for her spores. Everywhere else, nothing mentioned here is the truth. That also includes Kuva survivals...in case those buggy turrets don't actually catch spores the way they catch ash's shuriken that is.

Edited August 17, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Antris]

Just get rid of infinite scaling on her 1 and return perpetual spread. I doing a constant amount of damage and removing enemy armor is pretty nice already, and wouldn't kill everything on its own.

Keep the counter but make it track damage done by 1 instead, for satisfaction purposes. Maybe add stack bonuses for high numbers, when 10k damage is done, give 10 health regeneration per second, as an example.

[Andaius]

27 minutes ago, Antris said:

Just get rid of infinite scaling on her 1 and return perpetual spread. I doing a constant amount of damage and removing enemy armor is pretty nice already, and wouldn't kill everything on its own.

Keep the counter but make it track damage done by 1 instead, for satisfaction purposes. Maybe add stack bonuses for high numbers, when 10k damage is done, give 10 health regeneration per second, as an example.

IT's not infinate scaling. It's capped at both how fast you can gain stacks and how much max you can get. Plus it decays to 0 again in 4 seconds if you have no infected going. So it's back to 0 stacks between everywave.

[Antris]

39 minutes ago, Andaius said:

IT's not infinate scaling. It's capped at both how fast you can gain stacks and how much max you can get. Plus it decays to 0 again in 4 seconds if you have no infected going. So it's back to 0 stacks between everywave.

Its not infinite scaling alone, but it + corrosive status + viral status + miasma damage. Infinite scaling is capped in ramp up speed, but it still fast enough to start killing everything, doing a lot of damage per tick when one adds the armor removal and health reduction from corrosive and viral.

I would rater keep the status effects, as they help everyone, make Spores spread on death again and remove the infinite scaling/decaying damage. Giving back toxin spread through spore would be nice too IMO. But perhaps at a lesser degree.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Antris
add + miasma damage and few corrections.

[Andaius]

12 minutes ago, Antris said:

Its not infinite scaling alone, but it + corrosive status + viral status + miasma damage. Infinite scaling is capped in ramp up speed, but it still fast enough to start killing everything, doing a lot of damage per tick when one adds the armor removal and health reduction from corrosive and viral.

I would rater keep the status effects, as they help everyone, make Spores spread on death again and remove the infinite scaling/decaying damage. Giving back toxin spread through spore would be nice too IMO. But perhaps at a lesser degree.

Spores don't get viral on them anymore. Only corrosive. Spamming Misasma is still an expensive proposition to a Saryn also.

[Soketsu]

How about something more efficient as solution ?

in order to have play who hate nuke play together and player who just want to grind for example ?

 

Because this is another proof to me that just nerfing stuff is not efficient if we have to this ANY time something "OP" become popular...

[ZodiacShinryu]

Sigh... I can't believe I have gotten drawn into another Saryn topic.

I am just going to say that everything has been overblown here. Her current rework isn't that bad (it is far more balanced than her last rework) but she is statistically weaker than she was before this last rework. She has already been nerfed in a bid for a more simple and consistent form (and DE accomplished that completely). Saryn's current design is about as balanced you'll get while retaining the strengths she had for over 3 years now. This design is doing exactly as DE intended... with proper management this power ramps up (like Nidus; way more razor edge at that) over time. It shouldn't be far-fetched that the player be rewarded for maintaining that balance over extended periods of time. It is categorically false that she can do nothing (though she doesn't necessarily have to do a lot) but there are a number of conditions that you have to pass to make these arguments. If she is doing next to nothing (other than surviving) then it means that her allies have to do stuff in her place, otherwise Spores falls apart (with the removal of passive spread). If she is actively managing her Spores she is being rewarded as intended. Many frames trivialize others in any number of game modes, Saryn is nothing new. If you are looking to 'fix the game' you are going to have to start of scratch on most the game as we are well beyond point fixes.

Not all Saryns have the skill or patience to maintain Spores to that degree or that long (because there are a lot of pit falls while also needing to just survive) especially if you are complaining that she is doing all the work. If that is the case for 45min it means that Spores would be at the bleeding edge of soft cap (the point where Spores skills faster than they grow) and would need active management because Spores will kill itself off quickly otherwise. That particular point makes me suspicious that you are under playing her participation. Even with high duration (which kills spread and growth rate as well as increase the penalty for failing mechanic checks; most Saryns I know don't do high duration, usually around base for best spread and growth) Spores can't be on down time for more than 10 sec without losing the majority of your stacks. Ten seconds is a long time if you are actively playing but not very long if you are inattentive coupled with the penalties for those mistakes which are more likely to occur with ally participation. People should actually play Saryn, then they might understand that its not quite as simple as people like to make it out to be (especially outside endless non-break in gameplay modes) when you get to make it or break it moments. A simple mistake can be devastating for Saryn.

The only mode where the effort is reduced is Onslaught simply because of enemy density and nothing more (ESO is not an accurate representation of the whole game no matter how much people what to make it so). This mechanic also works okay on Survival. However every other game mode has a certain amount of downtime or sparse enemy densities which slow Saryn down a ton. Saryn use to be my go to map clear frame (back in Toxin Burst Saryn days) but now she isn't efficient at it unless you put the time in. Let me put it this way it takes roughly 10min+ more to do 30+ waves ODD with current Saryn than it did with past Saryn. She has gotten so bad at burst that Banshee, Ember, Equinox, Mesa (in open areas), Volt, and Mag (of the top of my head as far as AoE ability based frames go) over take her rather simply in anything but Onslaught.

50 minutes ago, Antris said:

Its not infinite scaling alone, but it + corrosive status + viral status + miasma damage. Infinite scaling is capped in ramp up speed, but it still fast enough to start killing everything, doing a lot of damage per tick when one adds the armor removal and health reduction from corrosive and viral.

I would rater keep the status effects, as they help everyone, make Spores spread on death again and remove the infinite scaling/decaying damage. Giving back toxin spread through spore would be nice too IMO. But perhaps at a lesser degree.

Miasma is a 4th power with a base 100 energy cost and is the only way to get Viral from powers alone. If you have the energy to cast it constantly (likely along with Molt and Toxic Lash) it means you have a set up to give you a lot of energy (Trinity, Harrow, waste a lot of pads, etc; you could trivialize any content at that point with any frame) while being relatively 'inactive' as people what to make it out to be or she is actually active (likely needing Arcane Energize) playing the game utilizing her given purpose as intended. What I find more funny is how people make a case for "corrosive procs" when the META is CP aura rendering that aspect useless.

When we are talking about passive spread we are looking at one of the reasons she was reworked again in the first place. That spread type allowed her to be inactive, in order to annoy people now she at least has to be there doing things. And how exactly would YOU want to bring Toxin spread "in a lesser degree"? That was also a reason they reworked her. Toxin spread was buggy, inconsistent, complicated and next to broken OP when you got it to work correctly. It is why she was stronger than she is now with her "infinite scaling" (and I am being cheeky on purpose because it was technically "infinitely" scaling before the rework). Let me put out a hypothetical of old Saryn (as I usually do in these threads to illustrate this point), If you could get an enemy with over 2.5bil health then deal a toxin proc at damage cap you'll get a DoT of around 1bil. You could then take that toxin, burst it with Spores and spread it to all the enemies in range. You could do that in mere seconds on old Saryn and it far outclasses the like the measly (3x) 100k you need like 30min to prepare at max power strength (and all the limitations that brings) with at least 10 infected the whole time. That is ignoring the enhanced damage from the toxin burst itself. Even if you lower the scaling to 10% spread and you are still outclassing current Saryn handily. It was harder to get Saryn to perform in her old form because there were all kinds of limitations and caveats but she most certainly had the capacity to decimate enemies instantly at any level and it was easier to do as they got stronger (similarly how current Saryn gets stronger the longer you spend in uptime). I personally use to wipe out Sortie 3 in the blink of an eye all the time but now we have new Saryn where you have to work up to that. That definitely gives allies to time to participate in some capacity in comparison. 70-80% damage dealt and 300-400 more enemies killed (than second highest) was a common occurrence.

If you are saying lets revert Saryn back to Burst Saryn then sure I am all for it (because I loved Burst Saryn) but don't think that it actually fixes anything the OP is complaining about.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

13 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

The fact Warframe is supposed to be a "coop 3rd person shooter" is void tho, "bro"? Also who's whining, all i'm reading from your side is "bohoo, don't take my braindead easy mode away from me :*(".

That's one brilliant eye-opener if i ever read one right there... Thanks so much to your fruitful contribution to this discussion, i shall henceforth withdraw to ponder the errors of my ways... Oh no wait, actually that's saying pretty much nothing at all. What OP is promoting is a sort of balancing which actually justifies the term "COOP" thus giving more chance to everyone to be a vital addition to a party, it's a win-win and nothing else.

Said the guy complaining about having to press more than 1 button per mission...

Yes, i got the point you ain't got sympathy for anyone but your lazy, oh excuse me, "efficient" self, noted.

Yeah i still got the ghost clan running some RL-friends invited me to 4 years ago, introducing me to the game. Now none of them is playing but me anymore, not one. The reason? Boredom.

So what's your problem then?

It's in their best interest to provide entertainment as their income hinges on it. If they weren't interested about their players' priorities these forums wouldn't exist.

Again: I'm dreaming of a game design that would allow more flexibility and more even contribution among players in missions but for all i care make it a seperate game mode called "actual action game mode" or whatever and keep this actual "powercreeping mess mode", everyone's happy, problem solved. I wouldn't even care in the slightest if they'd share the exact same loot tables.

And how exactly does that make you an authority on the matter?

I play as Saryn in ESO, too. It feels plenty OP to me. Oh dear.

The forums says 3 year experience. I am a Torid user. Are you coming for my rifle next? I forma my torid to the max. 

Look at my warframes. Volt,Zephyr,Loki,Nova,Frost,Nyx,Trinity,Hydroid,Nekros and etc. I love my frames. That why they're Primes. I love using nidus. Try 65 void survival waves with saryn and you'll see she not OP. 

[Antris]

1 hour ago, Andaius said:

Spores don't get viral on them anymore. Only corrosive. Spamming Misasma is still an expensive proposition to a Saryn also.

Its not spores that apply viral, but miasma. 100% status chance, I like this a lot. I would prefer they keep it and nerf the damage, if ever needed.

29 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Miasma is a 4th power with a base 100 energy cost and is the only way to get Viral from powers alone. If you have the energy to cast it constantly (likely along with Molt and Toxic Lash) it means you have a set up to give you a lot of energy

It costs 75 actually, or 18.75 with max efficiency and Spores spread on enemy death while miasma is up.

You bring a lot of good points, personally I like the procs a lot and IMO the rework was overall very positive.

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

how exactly would YOU want to bring Toxin spread "in a lesser degree"? That was also a reason they reworked her. Toxin spread was buggy, inconsistent, complicated and next to broken OP when you got it to work correctly. It is why she was stronger than she is now with her "infinite scaling" (and I am being cheeky on purpose because it was technically "infinitely" scaling before the rework). Let me put out a hypothetical of old Saryn (as I usually do in these threads to illustrate this point), If you could get an enemy with over 2.5bil health then deal a toxin proc at damage cap you'll get a DoT of around 1bil. You could then take that toxin, burst it with Spores and spread it to all the enemies in range.

How bring it to a lesser degree? Hm.  Perhaps limit it to the listed damage done in the counter of spores, and give base spores a low static damage. So it still scales, but now you have to apply it, and the damage spike wont be higher than all the damage Spores did on their own until now. And no auto Decay, so the longer spores remain active, the higher the cap, but killing enemies with strong toxin procs lowers the amount of enemies infected and makes the cap grow slowly.

Or better yet, make the counter list enemies that were infected by spores and limit toxic damage spread cap to it, might still be too much but those are just examples.

On the example you gave, I think its too much on the absurd. I get what you mean, there are ways to get a big toxin proc spike, like a Toxic modded Sniper. "Infinite Scaling" tho presents a different problem, you don't need 100k damage TICK like you mentioned, a 300~600 damage tick is plenty to start killing unarmored and viral infected enemies before other players can properly interact with them. Even more so when Miasma damage is included on top.

I would prefer Saryn to be a little more (I mean it, not too much) on the debuffer side than now. I also would totally make her current Molt aug baseline, included in the skill. I detest the decay mechanic, stacking numbers up is cool, losing then kinda sucks. I don't even want toxic spread that much for the damage, It would be like a little interaction that was cool to have. If current Spores did like 10 dmg fixed and spread on death, but still proc corrosive and could carry some amount toxin damage to have some kind of scaling that is a little more interactive I would be perfectly cool with it.

That all said, in truth the current state of "clearing domination" doesn't concern me that much, I do recognize is not ideal though.

[Hyohakusha]

11 hours ago, --Dark_Rage-- said:

Also just checked your profile stats and was surprised that you don't have Saryn, you have zero experience with it, so you talk about thinks you absolutely don't know.

Actually you crafted and have gaming experience only with 1\4 of all frames.

The most weird thing was the fact that you have almost 40% time played on Octavia, which is extremely OP invis easy mode in most cases.

Smells like a fake double standarts and very one-sided understanding of balance itself.

This ^. This is always the case with these kinds of threads. I remember one a while back about nerfing melee, where the dude only ever used a Tonbo with a riven and had only acquired, not even maxed and used, less than 20% of the gear in the entire game.

As for outkilling everything; having slower reflexes, not understanding math and being unwilling to grind as much as other players does not justify invalidating the time it took them to get/build/potato and forma out a frame, get all the mods for a build, max them, adjust the build and then go out to test it in-game.

Without power to chase, there would be nothing to grind for. You'd have a fest like Destiny or Defiance 2050 where enemies scale with you so you never get stronger. While other games implement arbitrary cool downs and "balance" passes, Warframe continues to grow because it's Dynasty Warriors in space with guns. Being able to mulch 20 enemies at a time is the goal.

The hypocrisy is unreal. You either got the kill or you didn't. You either carried, broke even or got carried. I'm MR23 and I've got 2.6k hours in game. I don't give af when I only have 2% damage dealt and 42% taken. I go "Dayum, what kinda crazy build was that guy using? I have to try that." Taking that away from people who have or are pursuing it because you're "not happy with being carried" isn't even close to justifiable, especially when you have ZERO experience with what you're suggesting to be nerfed. You're asking for your future options to be narrowed, and asking them to be removed entirely for new players who haven't even gotten to try them yet.

The other thing that kills me about these threads is the shortsightedness. "But muh kills! They're being STOLEN! Nerf X frame!" and then a week later, someone else posts a thread saying that your favorite frame should be nerfed, and every single point you're arguing for as a reason to nerf becomes something that you're now arguing against.

If the people creating these cared about anyone other than themselves and thought for just a second, a way to make the game better for everyone, no matter the frame or build is pretty obvious. Buff the spawn rate of enemies. Active mobile defense terminal spawn rate should be standard. More loot, xp and kills for everyone. But hey, "Muh kills r being stolen."

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (PS4)Captain_Bonecold:

The forums says 3 year experience. I am a Torid user. Are you coming for my rifle next? I forma my torid to the max. 

Look at my warframes. Volt,Zephyr,Loki,Nova,Frost,Nyx,Trinity,Hydroid,Nekros and etc. I love my frames. That why they're Primes. I love using nidus. Try 65 void survival waves with saryn and you'll see she not OP.

Whose experience are you referring to? If you mean mine i think it was around april 2014 when i installed the game, just checked my earliest inbox message for reference (concerning the Vay Hek triangulator blueprint, yeah that was a thing), it's from 6/5/14. No idea why the forums would round it to 3 years. If you mean your own: Well... ok!

I'm not coming for anything, im just expressing my opinions on the forums. Torid is still solid i guess, wouldn't know about OP-ness, tis been a while since i used mine. Don't know what you mean by "max" Formas (8, one for each slot?), mine has 6. Neither do i care about them nor the time it took to relevel my gear, (or the two in my Saryn Prime for that matter). Noone forced me to forma my gear, the whole game revolves around nothing but amassing and pimping stuff... And leveling is so trivial, you don't even have to use said gear at all. I don't consider it "work" so neither would i care if stats would be changed for those things to bring them in line. I also have a 6 Forma Tonkor, i nothing but rejoiced when they introduced self damage to it. I guess that's what you were insinuating there.

I can't look at your frames since i'm on PC. I'm sure they look marvelous though. Nidus is kinda overrated imo, i enjoy playing Volt and Harrow mostly.

What do you mean by 65 survival "waves"? 65x5 minutes?? Why would i ever spend over 5 and a half hours in a Survival mission? o_O Even if you meant 65 minutes: Moot argument since going for an hour yields no more fruit than repeatedly exiting at 20. Anyhow i might accept your challenge just for the heck of it (IF you meant 65 minutes, that is). What survival node were you thinking of? Solo?

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hyohakusha:

As for outkilling everything; having slower reflexes, not understanding math and being unwilling to grind as much as other players does not justify invalidating the time it took them to get/build/potato and forma out a frame, get all the mods for a build, max them, adjust the build and then go out to test it in-game.

Warframe does not take exceptionally fast reflexes and certainly no higher understanding of math (sorry but lol) to excel. Look up loot tables and builds online, invest obscene amounts of time (you're right on that one, see my post above why i don't consider it an issue tho) if you're unlucky and you're good to go. Quite the contrary: Your gear pretty much plays the game for you from a certain point. There are setups to trivialze pretty much any content DE has ever thrown at us. So please don't try to make it look as if people defending press-x-to-win setups are on the higher ground in terms of skill, cognitive capability or investment, it comes off as rather absurd tbqh.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hyohakusha:

Without power to chase, there would be nothing to grind for.

Power is relative.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hyohakusha:

I don't give af when I only have 2% damage dealt and 42% taken. I go "Dayum, what kinda crazy build was that guy using? I have to try that."

You're kind of proving my point right there. If one fails in other games the first thought is usually "Ah gotta try harder / this or that stategy next time" etc. If one fails in Warframe it's "Oops, wrong build / frame".

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hyohakusha:

The other thing that kills me about these threads is the shortsightedness. "But muh kills! They're being STOLEN! Nerf X frame!" and then a week later, someone else posts a thread saying that your favorite frame should be nerfed, and every single point you're arguing for as a reason to nerf becomes something that you're now arguing against.

My favourite frame is and always was Volt (see av). There was a time the crit damage multiplicator of his shields stacked (and mind you: shields weren't capped back then) with each iteration thanks to a bug, quickly resulting in the max damage 32-bit integer value of 2147483647, if you took an Amprex (my fav weapon btw which i also consider as slightly too strong nontheless) that meant dealing that number to whole mobs. I was able to one shot every boss in the game. It was kinda fun... for a day or so. Then it became nothing but boring. Eventually the multiplication was fixed and later the numbers of shields capped and it was the right thing to do. Never looked back.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hyohakusha:

If the people creating these cared about anyone other than themselves and thought for just a second, a way to make the game better for everyone, no matter the frame or build is pretty obvious.

I'm not sure i understand this sentence, anyway: Like i said earlier i wouldn't mind a balanced / "hard" (which in this game really equals standard difficulty at most) mode to be introduced, no advantage, same loots, just balanced scaling, energy economy, skills and weapons. I'd leave your power phantasy in an instant, happy grinding for everyone. See: I do care about you, too! ❤️ 😘

Edited August 17, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[RealPandemonium]

Current Spores is DE finally giving people what they want.  Warframe has become a game that goes on the second monitor while you watch Netflix.

[ZodiacShinryu]

4 hours ago, Antris said:

On the example you gave, I think its too much on the absurd.

Well yes but the point was to illustrate the gap between old Saryn and current Saryn. It is the only way I can get people to understand how deadly Saryn was when you look at the pinnacle of a successful spread (as per the rules Pablo sort of laid out). Saryn as she is now is technically a drop in the bucket in comparison. But it is absurd (and why it is a hypothetical) because I don't actually know if an enemy can have a health value that high but the single hit damage cap is a little over 2bil and in order to follow the most basic rule of the spread was that the target can't die to the initial proc; it would be around the highest limits the game engine could generate and Saryn could decimate them still (part of the reason it was removed and limited). The point was weapon scaled damage is far better than time scaled. Burst Saryn can instantly match Growth Saryn at any point as long as they follow those rules given to them. And the Time factor itself leaves open that possible fail state which is why it is allowed to stay as it is. You go 60min in, lose her stacks for one reason or another and then you have a Saryn who is doing nothing important for a several minutes at least.

I personally like the flow of current Saryn better than Burst Saryn (even though I far preferred the burst damaged for non-endless missions). Viral on Miasma would have helped old Saryn as well (along with the Lash buff) because the proc made it harder to spread correctly. I no longer need to build for particular weapons and encounters, I don't need to plan my actions to utilize the spread mechanic correctly, her whole kit feels more wholesome but I would be remiss to say the growth mechanic helped Saryn very much especially outside endless types (where burst gave her more control). It is just a lot more simple (though not quite as simple as Spore Molt Cheese). I personally would like to move more her damage up front rather than keep it back loaded as it is now (though Miasma can handle the lower clears okay enough if not more expensively). But the more complicated things get the more the community pushes back on it. 

4 hours ago, Antris said:

I would prefer Saryn to be a little more (I mean it, not too much) on the debuffer side than now. I also would totally make her current Molt aug baseline, included in the skill. I detest the decay mechanic, stacking numbers up is cool, losing then kinda sucks. I don't even want toxic spread that much for the damage, It would be like a little interaction that was cool to have. If current Spores did like 10 dmg fixed and spread on death, but still proc corrosive and could carry some amount toxin damage to have some kind of scaling that is a little more interactive I would be perfectly cool with it.

I suppose I can understand that position though Saryn has far too long been a damage frame to defang her successfully enough where that would be accepted simply as a debuffer; especially with the number of ways to easily work around what she brings in that capacity. They would need to be much more creative with the debuffs. 

With that said, while I do like toxin spread (especially for CO reasons) but I just don't personally see a way to keep it and at the same time cull Saryn or without just pushing her off a cliff. If you just cap it at a flat value while defanging Spores you just defeat the purpose of Saryn altogether with the other Warframe options at hand. If you cap it to a new growth value of a toxin you can build through targets (which sounds interesting in theory) and you basically just replace the auto growth with a more controllable one. The end results don't change and it might even seem a buff if the cap grows at a similar rate.

[GPrime96]

I forgot about one thing about Saryn and that is, is there a Non - Invisible Damage frame that can do this just as easily as Saryn?:

This is with no Augments in Saryn.

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

53 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

I forgot about one thing about Saryn and that is, is there a Non - Invisible Damage frame that can do this just as easily as Saryn?:

This is with no Augments in Saryn.

Simulacrum ? Serious ?

Real level 110 content made easy is 300 strength rhino roar plus specter rhino roar plus max mod opticor for 15k iron skin then recast for 20k iron skin and 90k to 250k opticor hits everything dies 

Or same setup just change rhino specters to nidus specters 

Did i mention ice chroma opticor nidus specters and everything dies 

Volt plus nidus specters and Opticor or vectis or lanka or tigris prime

Repeat frost Oberon etc etc.

Its not the frame or weapon its the max mods and formas that let folks farm for 90 minutes.

 

[Antris]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Saryn has far too long been a damage frame to defang her successfully enough where that would be accepted simply as a debuffer;

Yeah the 10 damage part was more a hypothetical, "If they did it, I would be ok with it along with current miasma and tox spread", I don't really want it though. I wouldn't want to go as far as to "defang" her, just slide her little bit more to the debuffer side her debuffer~nuker scale.

What I would like is spread on death Plague Inc style, and no decay. I really detest decay, building up those numbers is fun! seeing them decay is wilting, and completely inevitable most times.

I also understand why others complain, save for the likes of Mesa, when there is Saryn in a mission... Other players really get a chance to appreciate the scenery, you know. 😛 haha!

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Saryn is fun