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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

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As someone who enjoys Gara I can see 90% DR being sufficient, and it's probably a good bit more EHP than the discount iron skin we currently have, especially with the higher health pool. I'm traditionally very skeptical of revisits, but darn it if this one doesn't look good.¬†ūüĎĆ

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Buff Volt's Speed along with Nezha's Firewalker, a long duration Speed does not have.

 

Rhino would like to not be left behind on these buffs, Iron skin should provide a small window of invulnerability upon losing it, the counter could also be useful as a QoL change, and while its christmas in my head, allow us to recast/refresh Iron Skin without the bloody augment. Chroma got a recastable tanking skill, Nezha is now even safer refreshing his Warding Halo, pleaso don't leave the OG Beefcake's Iron Skin in the dust.

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Questions from me.

How will the change to Nezha's blazing Chakram's heal affect reaping chakram?  will one enemy pour out more health/energy orbs based on how much damage they take when they die?  And would the chakrams from the Divine spears act in a similar manner?

I'm curious to see the Warding halo and Safeguard in affect after this.  Would he be able to keep himself (and objectives/allies) alive or slightly more durable with damage reduction?  Although it's a good call on the temporary invulnerable period when the halo runs out of health.

Thank you for removing the mandatory ground slam for diving spears, it really slowed him down too often when you was trying to escape missions

The set up looks interesting, can't wait to give it a try.

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)ZeroSection said:

Been ringing the hammer for a Vauban rework for awhile, but in their defense Nezha needed this, and it looks really good to me.

Nyx also needs a rework (and in my opinion titania and atlas also need one...)

Edited by Leoffta

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Firewalker sounds great so far. I'd only suggest a small synergy with his other abilities. I'd personally make it so enemies caught on fire are just knocked down by Chakram instead of ragdolled, for example. Also, it should still be able to damage enemies affected by Divine Spears, otherwise it and Chakram's synergy won't really exist. Divine Spears really shouldn't make one of his abilities ineffective, even if it is only in part.

He needs Melee Mods to affect Chakram. Even after these buffs, I can't say it'll be worth using. Flat damage really doesn't get far, and as we've seen with Atlas' Landslide, slapping a 50% Damage Buff won't do much when the ability works off of a bad damage type, and he's obviously getting far higher base damage numbers than Nezha will. The charged throw should also heal for more, of course. On top of that, the teleport should cause it's own radial mark, affecting any enemies near Nezha, just in case Chakram missed a guy or two. I can't tell you how irritating it is to use when it doesn't serve any real tangible purpose.

While I like the change to Warding Halo, I'd try to make it so he at least got a little more from it. A shield buff for him and allies would help a lot, as that 90% DR will apply to his Shield. Though, this would mainly be used to help Nezha's allies, who will only be receiving 90% of Wards protection now. Squishier characters won't really notice his Augment when their health pools are so much lower. 

Can't say I have any quarrels with Divine Spears, aside from the fact that it shouldn't hurt Firewalker. 

Oh, yeah, and as @DeMonkey said, where's Wukong's rework? It's kind of annoying when you guys skip over Warframes in the rework department.

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well,maybe old players are happy, but i wont play him with 90% reduction and will clearly prefer 100% rhino. Sadly. Maybe u will do at least like 95% like Mesa?=/ yeah,cool that some people can use their Arcanes now, but alot of ppl dont even have them -.- w/e

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unexpected change for warding halo, 90% damage reduction and 2 invulnerability phases, as a hunter adrenaline user i like this

blazing chakram dropping health orbs instead of pulsing healing is a nice change because health conversion, i also like this

the fire walker change... not all that excited about, given the expanded methods of restoring energy through means other than zenurik and (lol 0.6) energy siphon aka the change to chakram and hunter adrenaline makes this change ultimately not as good as one might think

the lack of an bladestorm esque marking system on chakram giving reliable bounces (unless the enemy tracking gets worked on) is somewhat disappointing

and i still think divine spears should be a ground targeting ability akin to limbo's cataclysm or hydroids tentacle swarm

i also think firewalker pool/damage should apply to divine spear targets  as currently enemies affected by divine spears completely disregard firewalker damage regardless of whether you bullet jump through them or if they are touching it at all

and lastly if a duration focused frame like nova can get by with an unmoddable range antimater drop why not make the firewalker explosion a static 15m range

Edited by crashapple12
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26 minutes ago, sasanao22 said:

pssstt have you read the pablo comment. Try playing gara with 130% str & feel the 90% dmg cut, pretty much you save for anything & i'm trying it at high level 90% dmg cut means you only take so small damage or so from bombard lul and with just 3k hp shield that should be save enough especially nezha is a trickster and you won't play nezha like rhino passive movement right ? consider the synergy of that shield with hunter adrenaline/rage..

 

but hey everyone have different opinion. You can mad or something after you try it, this is just a patch note and yeah. Hope you guys change your mind about being so negative after the real nezha rework applied haha. Still can't wait to try the warding halo rework atm

I basically main Gara and you only need 129% power strength btw.

Anyways, did you read what I said? I don't care about the 90% change. I care about connecting 90% damage resistance to a damage absorption health pool. That makes no sense. Gara would be so much weaker if she could only take up to 5-10k damage. I use to main Nezha too. If I remember correctly, you could get up 20k damage absorption if you used the right build/Arcanes etc and you could still get destroyed pretty quickly at high level. 

Quote

Chakram offers healing and self-sustain, and his outstanding movement can make the player a hard target to hit. In this context, Warding Halo’s 100% damage resistance was completely overshadowing his other options - why heal or CC when I never take any damage?

Do you know what that statement means? It means they thought Warding Halo was too strong¬†ūü§£. They decided to make it worse so players would be forced to use his other abilities. That is such a bad starting place for a rework.¬†

Edited by BL4CKN0ISE
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6 hours ago, Vlada91 said:

And change for last power I dont see the GIF....  imagine you can hold last power like what wr have on hydroid,and more you hold more spears are coming like a rains.

Maybe the new deluxe skin has a special effect for Nezha's ult and DE wanted to keep it a surprise 

Edited by RageingPhoenix

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Welp,  looks like i need to start trying to get some arcane graces.  Rework looks amazing even from someone who uses nezha a whole lot already

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Sounds really good. Dig being able to get more EHP than Inaros with just one unmodded ability while also retaining access to Rage/Hunter Adrenaline.

Changes to Firewalker are nice, but I'm curious as to how that'll interact with the augment. Will we be able to refresh the ability similar to Mirage's 3 (Eclipse) or Chroma's 3 (Vex Armor)?

Rest of the changes look fine, too.

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Pablo's been on fire with recent reworks. Can't wait to try this one out. 

Usually I have little nitpicks but this seems solid!

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Warding halo is going to have a major issue. It's objectively 100% worse if it works like i think it does. It seems that what it does is absorb damage during invulnerability phase, then 90% of Damage taken goes to the health while 10% goes to nezha. This is really bad because nezha's ehp is low as is, so all you're doing is basically adding nezha's ehp to warding halo, it's not gonna function at all like gara. Maybe it will at low levels, but those same levels would've had normal warding halo working. Consider a revision to make this function like iron skin, but not play like iron skin. Give it no base health, but a long damage absorb phase, have the 90% damage reduction apply to the halo itself. How about having blazing chakram heal warding halo health like reinforcing stomp as a sort of synergy instead of forcing warding halo to work with current blazing chakram?

Firewalker change is good,  provided that you can recast to reset duration to keep it up at all times. With a good build, energy was never an issue before, but up-time is essential, especially when his augment is considered.

Divine spears needs to have a charge mechanic to increase range, because current range is lacking.

Otherwise, it's ok, not much changed, but please revisit your warding halo ideas.

Edited by (PS4)Crixus044
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Just now, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Warding halo is going to have a major issue. It's objectively 100% worse if it works like i think it does. It seems that what it does is absorb damage during invulnerability phase, then 90% of Damage taken goes to the health while 10% goes to nezha. This is really bad because nezha's ehp is low as is, so all you're doing is basically adding nezha's ehp to warding halo, it's not gonna function at all like gara. Maybe it will at low levels, but those same levels would've had normal warding halo working. Consider a revision to make this. How about having blazing chakram heal warding halo health like reinforcing stomp as a sort of synergy instead of forcing warding halo to work with current blazing chakram?

Firewalker change is good,  provided that you can recast to reset duration to keep it up at all times. With a good build, energy was never an issue before, but up-time is essential, especially when his augment is considered.

Divine spears needs to have a charge mechanic to increase range, because current range is lacking.

Otherwise, it's ok, not much changed, but please revisit your warding halo ideas.

Did you miss the part where they buffed Nezha's base HP to 350?

Also, Divine Spears has a base range of 19m. Its range is hardly bad at all, unless you equipped Narrow Minded which, well, there's your problem.

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Hmm... I would say that Nezha's proposed changes to 1,2, and 4 all seem perfectly reasonable, however at least personally I will probably stop using him altogether.  The big issue is with the change from damage immunity to 90% damage reduction, Warding Halo is now basically a worse version of Gara's Shatter Storm that costs more energy getting Status Immunity as the trade off.  

My personal general complaint about the proposed state of things after these changes are, that across the board most of Nezha's abilities end up overshadowed by abilities that are either cheaper or just better to use. (Gara, Harrow, Excalibur, Loki, and Volt come to mind)

If you really want to make Nezha remotely useful I would suggest the further changes:

  • Warding Halo drops to 50 energy. It was hard to justify cost of the ability with it being 100% reduction, without it is even harder.
  • Make Warding Halo castable on allies by default, ideally with 100% efficiency. As it is proposed Warding Halo is just a bad version of Shattering Storm,¬†at least this change would bring the two abilities into line with each other.
  • With the previously suggested Warding Halo change, Safeguard would no longer have any effect, So possibly change the effect such that Warding Halo once again prevents 100% of damage. ¬†As stated there are good reasons to reduce the ability to 90% reduction, but this way you are providing a way to maintain the previous idea of damage immunity as an Augment.
  • Reduce the Cost of Divine Spears or increase its effect. ¬†As it stands it costs double Excalibur's Radial blind for an amount of damage which does not scale especially well late game, or overall it provides a less notable effect than Loki's Radial disarm.
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This looks phenomenal. I'm not the absolute biggest fan of Nezha, but these changes bring significant improvements, imo. Thoughts on specific abilities:

  • Making Firewalker smoother and less prone to canceling itself is excellent. Making the effect duration-based I'm more ambivalent, because the proposal feels more like a workaround to a technicality than a genuine gameplay improvement (the alternative could simply be to avoid having draining abilities disable regeneration in the first place). In terms of efficiency, though, this is a good way of preventing people from forgetting they have Nezha's 1 turned on.
  • Changing Blazing Chakram's¬†heal into health orbs feels like a great idea, one I feel could be brought to many more healing abilities that are difficult to appreciate on their own. The energy orb drops also look excellent. The best part of this whole change, though, I think is the option for a straightforward pass-through throw, which I suspect could allow fans of different throwing patterns to all be happy with the same ability.
  • The Warding Halo changes are okay on their own, but the ability still feels kind of iffy to me. Ultimately, it's still an ability that doesn't quite mesh with a nimble, self-healing frame. While I'd personally like an entirely different mechanic, if nothing else it may be more interesting to just keep the fire blast + invulnerability portion, and give Nezha a number of charges that would consume one at a time if his health gets too low.
  • As with Warding Halo, I wish Divine Spears were a different ability, as they're pretty much a redux of Rhino's Stomp. Another user posted a neat idea where Nezha could impale and pin multiple enemies down with a single spear, for example, which could fulfil a similar function in a novel way. Removing the animation lock upon the ability decasting is terrific, though, and I think is going to make every Nezha player much more relieved to play him and not get stunned in the middle of combat for no reason.
Edited by Teridax68
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So long as the damage cap on warding halo is affected by the 90% damage reduction(i.e 100 damage from enemy only takes 10 off halo health,) this seems like an all round good rework. If it is not then make it, in high level content the 1 second invulnerability window will block more damage than halo.

Duration based fire walker is questionable, if it was possible (I doubt it is) perhaps giving 2 modes of fire walker, 1 duration and 1 channel, would be a good option. Something like hold down 1 to charge for either duration/drain and tap 1 for the other.

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This is literally everything I do not want. I especially don't want Firewalker to be duration based--I like it specifically because I can turn it on once and don't have to turn it off. If you're going to make it duration based, the base duration needs to be ridiculously long or it's just going to be annoying. About the only things I like are teleport not cancelling firewalker and the UI change on Warding Halo. Everything else is either no feelings or specifically don't do it.

EDIT: What especially scares me is the change to Blazing Chakram's healing in conjunction with the Warding Halo change. If I'm going to use it as a heal, I want it to be instantaneous. It's an emergency tool. Having to pray I get the health orbs when the enemy dies before I do, especially if my sentinel is dead or I'm using a pet? Sounds absolutely terrifying. Also, Nezha is still a bit of a glass cannon even with 100% damage immunity with the Warding Halo, because he doesn't have high armor. Once the WH goes down, you have to get it up again fast or you die. This is going to make it a lot harder to work with him, especially with a shield reduction. If you want this to work, you have to make his healing far more reliable and far faster to go off.

Edited by ArcaneSnowdrop
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Firewalker-

Not sure how to feel about these changes, as arguably the most useful skill in Nezha's kit when used right I've never needed a reason to be pushed to use it, and with half decent modding I've never struggled with up time for it. The change from channeled to duration make that an even lesser issue which I can't strictly complain about, and until the duration is made clear (please don't make it low) I can't even predict if the frequent requirement of recasting it will cause an unpleasant break in the flow of combat, but I do feel concerns with how this change from channeled to duration might hamper pyrocastic flow (firewalker augment) as now the charge up time for said augment becomes immensely shorter if it remains a cast on deactivation ability. You could easily remedy the problem with pyrocastic by not making it activate on deactivation of firewalker, but rather a hold function on firewalker and giving it its own damage stack bar, but it's not clear if that will be happening. 

Blazing Chakram- 

This is a step in a good direction, but honestly I feel I need to experience this one judge. If it doesn't get better assisted targeting however I can't imagine much more use of this skill even with these changes. The health orb drops should be more reliable than the wave however so not an entirely bad idea, and at least on more mob heavy missions it could have its uses now. 

Also for all that is divine please remove this skills anti-synergy with Firewalker when using teleport, the explosion on tp sounds fun but it's honestly useless and forces us to recast a skill we generally want up always. 

Warding Halo-

Meh. We had a lesser iron skin, now we have a lesser shattershield/splinterstorm. 

Divine Spears-

I never use this skill so I can't provide much feedback on this one other than maybe make it work on the ground? An ult shouldn't cancel out the effect of another skill on a frames kit, and firewalker shouldn't mean nothing while his ult is active. 

Or maybe just replace the skill in its entirety because for such a nimble glide around the map kind of frame his ult feels incredibly static. He's a mobile caster with the ult of a heavy tank. I honestly haven't enjoyed a single time using this skill on Nezha, and I can't see myself ever enjoying it without heavy changes to its function if not an entirely new skill, and if I'm not enjoying it I'm likely never going to use it. 

Edited by Cubewano
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7 hours ago, CarrotSalad said:

I feel like the 'safegaurd' augment will become close to worthless with the change. As 75+ energy for each party member + pet/sentinel (for max power strength to offset the augments natural reduction). Its already a really tough job to keep everyone with a halo shields. Now its down to 40% durability rather than 50%.

I kinda feel like it would actually work better to have safeguard pass *more* damage on to the target.  Unless your target was specifically built expecting a safeguard, they'll still be living better from the added mitigation, and having halo absorb less damage will let it last longer.

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Nezhas first ability- 

At the moment you can't get the aoe explosion if u kill the enemy's with ur weapons, the only way to get the explosion is if FireWalker kills them.

Change need- any enemy killed while fire procced by FireWalker will release the explosion. This will result in a neat mechanic of like line of TNT exploding down his FireWalker.

Blazing chakram- let the ability simply just auto target and ricochet between enemys. The healing pulse range was larger then "melee range" it also allowed the players to heal sentinels and pets. With the change to it becoming low HP orbs I don't believe sentinels pick up orbs for them selves.

Warding halo- with the changes you suggested you are basicly saying it is iron skin but with a hole. This will lead to your large halo u buffed from the initial cast to some times be shot through and hit nezha. This will lead to you having say a 50k halo you made to become useless. And the way you worded it "90% damage reduction" is not true. Because we already kno as a community halo and ironskin are not effected by say trinity blessing or blocking. And by saying its 90% DMG reduction is just an underhanded wording when really it means 1/10 hits basicly ignore your halo and hit nezha.

Divine spears- u got this one correct. 

My final thoughts - simply let halo be like ironskin but give the fire aoe and invincibility timer once your halo depletes. Fix how the aoe explosion works on FireWalker. Keep chakram an aoe heal. Its range is larger then you think because it does scale with range mods too

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