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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

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Blazing chakram: I still think this should have innate life stealing. I have read many comments and some people did mention the health orb healing as too little and no longer works on companions etc.

Warding halo: Some commenters think 90% damage resistance is not enough. I hope that 90% also applies to the temporary health from the skill. If not, then Nezha still suffers late game survivability once again.

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4 minutes ago, Borduglas said:

Blazing chakram: I still think this should have innate life stealing. I have read many comments and some people did mention the health orb healing as too little and no longer works on companions etc.

Warding halo: Some commenters think 90% damage resistance is not enough. I hope that 90% also applies to the temporary health from the skill. If not, then Nezha still suffers late game survivability once again.

Its not that 90% reduction is not enough its that his other stats are too low to make it useful. Most damage reduction frames have more armor and hp. 

 

But maybe its just one of those things that sound bad on paper but are good in game.

 

I do like the shockwave and invicibility on its destruction that fixes the problem of damage bleed through with the old halo.

 

But again I am extremely skeptical about the 90% damage reduction.

 

And ya up orbs kind of subtracts from its usefulness.

 

If range was the problem then increase the aoe of the heal. 

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There are some changes here that I do like and there are some that I kind of don't. Fire walker being a duration cast is a nice change, though I don't know how well it is going to be with the chakram teleport and aoe blast unless it's cost stays fairly low. Halo being switched to a DR ability is acceptible if they keep the same aromo and health multiplier scaling. As for chakram there is alot there that I like and some things here that I don't. The multiplication works well but I feel the energy and health orbs seem kind of off to me. If actually grown to like the way the plus works though there is little to no visual or audio letting you know it worked and the duration to get the plus was rather short. As far as it's range goes after moding for somerange the puls works really well. Granted this change will allow for the use of some lesser known mods and amplify the need for things like using arcane energize and the abuse of the zenuric passive. I would like to know how the teleport and aoe blast will work with the chakram multiplying and how will the augment work as it's suppose to amplify the amount of damage and healing done. Lastly removing the mandatory webcast from spears is really welcome. I'm going to keep an open mind on the revisit but that's what I'm thinking atm.

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Hey mate I know this isn't the time or place for this but can y'all make an augment for nezha where if you cast warding halo and firewalker together you get a pair of flaming rings that you can use as skates to move around maps? 

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"Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken." Hmm.. I don't like this change too. Why ? (you may ask) Because there were some builds created specifically around Health Conversion and / or Safeguard augment. As we all know Warding Halo's health is based of incoming damage, ability strength and... *ARMOR*. With 100% protection from damage it was possible to just ignore mods like Vitality or Redirection and instead of this go for Steel Fiber + Health Conversion, thanks to that you could get +1350 Armor and create shield with enormous health to protect you from dying (it was something like your second health bar). However the most important thing in "100% dmg protection" is synergy with this infamous Health Conversion... It's simple  "100% dmg protection" = Health Conversion's armor stacks are safe and you can keep recasting "colossal" Warding Halo as long as you have energy for that. With 90% you're losing one stack after 3 seconds if something has hit you. So there is a constant need to replenish these stacks with health orbs (which may be not that easy considering that Warding Halo will probably keep your health pool full and will let just enough damage to only lower your shields).

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So, by this logic, you will be giving every frame with similar mechanics (like, Rhino, duh), same invincibility mechanic on IS depletion? 

You really can't decide which route to take considering invincibility and tanking.

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Now if you rework Nezha's Warding Halo you might as well tweak Rhino's Iron Skin with

-SFX When Iron skin breaks

-A HP counter on Iron skin

-Multiply DMG taken for the first fews seconds

As a Rhino main (Or a former). I hope that the Dev read this comment and implement the changes.

Nezha's rework looks really promising I'll be looking forward to it.

Edited by Bendd
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My concern with the OP is how it seems to direct Nezha towards wanting to use health conversion, however unlike Despoil Nekros, nezha doesn't have any way to guarantee being below max health, and thus won't be able to reliably feed into health conversion. The best i could think of was running decaying dragon key to keep your shields to a minimum, but detrimenting yourself like that just to make mod synergies work shouldn't really be a thing. Would love to see a way in either the core ability set or an augment to keep yourself below max health, similar to despoil.

Other than that, the changes look good, i'm curious as to how the chakram splitting works however, if it splits and you hit another impaled enemy, does it split again? can you start a chain reaction? would that also mark every enemy hit and make them drop health orbs? that would be amazing.

Edited by Chronozilla
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Words cannot begin to express how happy I (as a Nezha main with multiple documents on my computer filled with various Warding Halo calculations) am with this list of changes. I honestly have spent dozens (if not hundreds) of hours daydreaming of ways I wished Nezha's kit could be better, and this goes beyond anything I hoped or dreamed for. The 90% damage reduction is perfect, still offering near-invincibility (without completely negating the importance of healing/support/CC in high level content), while also indirectly increasing Warding Halo's lifespan by around 10%. It additionally eliminates the need for my old extremely inconvenient loadout of Hema and Broken Scepter in order to both produce (Broken Scepter activated ability) and use (Hema's reload to take health damage while otherwise "invincible") health orbs for the armor increase of Health Conversion. Now Nezha can produce both health and energy orbs at will!! Such a great overall concept, mixing small quality-of-life improvements, personal synergies, team synergies, and things that just make Nezha plain ol' more fun to play.

I feel like a kid on Christmas morning, just knowing that soon I'll be able to hop into missions again with a high-skill Nezha build that requires carefully collecting stacks and timing Halos on my allies for maximum EHP, and actually be rewarded sufficiently enough for it to be considered viable! Plus the added bonus of actually being allowed to use my other three abilities without them being just a raw waste of energy!

...

Though I have just noticed a few big problems... Health Conversion still has that ludicrous feature where it loses stacks on shield damage (despite providing no benefit)... And with Nezha's shield health now being increased, it'll probably be even harder to finally take health damage for picking up health orbs... I guess I won't get to shelve my Hema quite yet after all...

Maybe one of these days we could get a Health Conversion rework? For instance, more stacks divided into smaller chunks (same or even slightly lower total max armor bonus) or a longer duration until stack loss? Only losing stacks from health damage? Letting Health Conversion "eat" health orbs even when you're at max health, so long as you're not at max stacks? These changes would help EVERY build for EVERY Warframe for EVERY player that uses Health Conversion.

Edited by Lynch_The_Chimera
Sudden realization
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Lotus prince, read the myths of the character; it can be interesting while also explaining why to an extent the character is often depicted as youthful.

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I'm also seeing some people mention the change from AOE heals to health orbs being a nerf, but... Honestly, if you were using Nezha for those heals before, you weren't using Nezha right in the first place. What's more effective than periodic large or full heals is: Damage resistances, status protections, frequent (or over-time) heals, and CCs. Large/full heals come in behind ALL of these things in terms of overall usefulness in the kinds of content that these abilities need to be balanced around.

This is why Trinity's Blessing, which is advertised as something much like a full team heal in League of Legends or other games with multi-role teams, is actually mostly useful because of its damage resistance, not its heal. Because bringing all of your teammates up to full health and shields, even if you do it every 5-10 seconds, still won't help them survive when it only takes enemies 1-5 seconds to kill them outright from max health/shield in high level missions. And while large/full heals do provide a significant resource to health/armor tanks, such tanks are already built to handle the level of content they're playing in without teammate help, since such help cannot be expected or counted on in public missions.

In other words, having an abundant source of health orbs that anyone can pick up at any time in order to use them for self-identified health needs and the other mechanics associated with health orbs, is much more useful than large heals at a precise time and place. Yes, even if they buffed the range.

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Like all of this so far, but what if the absorbed damage Nezha accumulates during warding halo also buffed the contact damage of the ring?

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15 hours ago, lihimsidhe said:

1.jpg



The thing that always confused me was Nezha's Chakram on his back.  Why would a warframe have such a large part of its body dedicated to 'not its most powerful ability'?  It's like Nyx having huge arm attachments just for Psychic Bolts.  Meanwhile Chaos/Absorb are her bread and butter and have no external representations.

I think the above issue can be solved by Blazing Chakram having synergies with every ability.  For example:

  • Blazing Chakram + Firewalker = When thrown a a fire trail, imparts fire trail with some of Chakram's 'enemies take increased damage from all sources' effect.
  • Blazing Chakram + Blazing Chakram = When used to teleport, Nezha emits a burst of fire when he arrives at his location.
  • Blazing Chakram + Warding Halo = Some of Halo's health will regenerate if Chakram is used.
  • Blazing Chakram + Divine Spears = Make the amount of spears that emit an additional Chakram scale with some stat.

If you do something like the above, then it becomes clear why Nezha wears his Chakram on his back.  It's REALLY freaking useful and ties into everything he does!  😉

It's because his design was inspired by the Nezha from the Chinese religion who had a "Universe Ring" around his body

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Alright top to bottom:

Increased Health is great and cast times are appreciated.

Fire Walker- Great across the board, ability looks to ge in a great spot so long as the base duration is atleast 20sec.

Blazing Chakram- the changes are overcomplicated, giving health orb drops and nerfing Halo to make use of Health conversation is a bad idea IMO I see Nekros uses shadows over  Health Conversion 9/10 of the time because its more accessible and easier use AND Nezha cant even reliably pick up HP orbs like Nekro can. the reason Nezha 2 isnt used currently is because it causes ragdoll and does nothing meaningful as healing on Nezha at current is pointless.

If you intend to buff the healing affect either buff the base range or make the heal over time #Oberon

Warding Halo- As stated above Overcomplicated The nerf to 90% DR is fine but trying to "synergise" with Chakram is not fun and breaks down gameplay the same way Atlas walking around collecting rocks to survive is not fun. This ability would be better served being a duration based ability with no health cap #Gara cementing him as a Duration based character and instead of being forced to use guardian and health conversion you can open your build all kinds to options and augments. I feel the changes as they are work well on paper but do NOT support entertaining gameplay and playing Nehza will be tedious

Divine Spears- I dont feel this ability was touched enough given the first 3 ability changes stated above it would be nice to see this ability gain extra healing or duration from Chakram mark, because currently Divine spears blocks certain abilites from working as intended so it would be nice if there was a added benefit to this being as the damage is not worth it currently this ability is a poor mans Stomp #Rhino 

I understand wanting to create nuances to abilites to set characters apart, but dont break Nezha's back bending over backwards to do it, Leave room for build flexibility and for the love of god leave the HP orbs out of this, make Halo and fire walker re-castable... Think of the children... and augments, but mostly the augments.

 

Edited by (XB1)Eternally Ninja
Highlights and added a thesis
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Don't know why there is a push towards trying to use Health Conversion, its not great. The first hit, no matter if it hits health or shields, depletes the charge immediately. Its only really worth using on Nekros cause Nekros can KEEP it up and going.

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Everything looks good.  However, maybe warding halo should be a duration based ability since it now has a 90% damage reduction effect.

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I would love to see Nezhas Chokram able to be modded with melee/glaive type mods similar to other frames like Titania, Mesa, Etc. I would also love to be able to pick which Chokram i want on my back with the different skins similar to how Mesa can pick her deluxe arm guns or normal variant.

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3 hours ago, Lynch_The_Chimera said:

I'm also seeing some people mention the change from AOE heals to health orbs being a nerf, but... Honestly, if you were using Nezha for those heals before, you weren't using Nezha right in the first place. What's more effective than periodic large or full heals is: Damage resistances, status protections, frequent (or over-time) heals, and CCs. Large/full heals come in behind ALL of these things in terms of overall usefulness in the kinds of content that these abilities need to be balanced around.

In other words, having an abundant source of health orbs that anyone can pick up at any time in order to use them for self-identified health needs and the other mechanics associated with health orbs, is much more useful than large heals at a precise time and place. Yes, even if they buffed the range.

Easier to obtain the heals yes, but 1 healing orb is also nearly 1/10th the healing that a unmodded max rank chakram can do, and DE didn't elaborate on how many would drop and if they are considering changing how much the orb would give. Also Power Strength probably won't affect the orbs so there goes mod scaling on what little heals he has too.

Edited by AXCrusnik
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On 2018-09-08 at 1:37 AM, [DE]Connor said:
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  • Increasing Nezha’s power overall by giving him added team support value and internal synergies

The changes to warding halo broke his team support value.

Do marked enemies drop th energy orbs when they die? or do they drop as soon as the chakram hits?

On 2018-09-08 at 1:37 AM, [DE]Connor said:

(Brief aside: as a Nezha main, I was originally skeptical of the 90% damage resistance change, and I suspect many readers will be skeptical too. However, playing the rework myself quickly changed my mind. The various buffs really outweigh the negatives, making Nezha much more capable in a supporting crowd-controller role. If you doubt just how potent 90% damage resistance can be, try out Gara’s Splinter Storm at 130% or more power strength!)

How does it effect warding Halo on team mates? As many in this thread have relied on the safegaurd augment as a tool to protect team mates, sentinels, pets, defence targets in sorties. To me this is a hit to Nezhas ability to protect team mates.

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