Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

On 2018-09-07 at 11:21 AM, Grimm said:

you can tell when pablo reworks something. it gets a new ui element ahaha and it also come out pretty balanced for end game

So...can we get Pablo on Revenant perchance?

[dan.io.wal]

7 hours ago, Walkampf said:

Not only is the Deluxe skin simply hot, but i really appreciate the hoops you jumped through for this revisit.

And I appreciate that joke ❤️

[Walkampf]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb dan.io.wal:

And I appreciate that joke ❤️

I simply like spearheading good humor.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

I *was excited for Rev, but this Nezha rework + deluxe skin really has me intrigued...

[A.yatan]

Rework looks amazing, but i hope that his 4th will finally also hit enemys affected by ancient healers, im fine with them getting no damage, but atleast the cc would be nice considering that pretty much all other cc abilities ignore the ancient aura.

[A.yatan]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi:

My 2 gripes with this that 1 his current damage absorb is really bad and from the sounds of things you guys are retaining the absorption cap but just allowing it to scale with power strength.

My first gripe is that at higher levels the cap is going to happen after 1 shot so you'll be stuck in a cycle of perpetually activating the halo then is getting shot 1 and instantly fill then again and it getting instantly destroyed. Yes you gave it the burst but I can already see this becoming a losing battle between energy/health upkeep, and the ability to actually play.

So my main question for his halo is does halo itself have 90%dr as well?

If not can we remove the absorption cap?

Hell instead just make it duration based and let the absorption become addictive damage to halos base.

Issue 2 his highlighted new functionality with his chakrum is that it's a single target. Its going to be clunky and way too slow and to justify 1 enemy at a time the buff would have to be pretty absurd

The orbs are a cute mechanic but since halo no longer blocks dmg health conversion builds are completely useless now. Which was really the only way to build halo for a longer run. 

And the mechanics between his spears and chakrum don't really sound like a bonus either. All you get is 1 extra mark.

Imo the chakrum from what I'm hearing is a single target that's trying to become his kitsch primary focus but that's really slow and lackluster.

If this is the case can you just make it so that when it hits an enemy that enemy does a radial burst that Mark's everything withing its range? And lastly  marked enemies that get hit with spears just do a second marking burst?

 

Honestly this rework seems iffy but I haven't seen it yet so I dont know but I think this will either sink or swim depending mainly on how well he can mark thislngs. Other than that I love everything so far

Sry but doesnt health conversion work much better now, and also as far as i understand all the enemies hit by chakrum get marked so it really isnt that useless health and energy conversion mods seem to be pretty good with him which both really help him with surviving, but i do agree with you about the damage absortion cap, that will hopefully get raised.

[A.yatan]

Am 9.9.2018 um 10:18 schrieb Iceyspy:

So I have 2 ideas for his 4;

 

1). Have it work like World on Fire, but be duration based. So any enemy in around a 15-20 m range of Nezha gets the shishkebab treatment. 

 

Why? Would synergize well with his 1st skill and him being generally fast.

 

2). You " enchant " an area with your energy and for the entire duration of the ability, any enemy that enters this area is immediately impaled. 

 

Why? Allows you as Nezha to hold down an important chokepoint or defense objective, while you run around CC'ing enemies with your 1 and 2.

 

i think those ideas espacially the 2. one are good augment but i like how it is right now without an augment

[Dvvolf]

I wouldn't worry about his 4th ability right now. We still haven't seen his 4th augment which could possibly fix a lot of problems. As is this ability already has god tier CC and with the change to it's cast speed I'm not sure if it isn't going to get nerfed in the future. Just try high range, efficiency and some strength with - duration and just spam his 4 (not for damage but for CC). Almost nothing will be able to touch you and your teammates. It's already broken as is in gamemodes like Interception and missions against Grinner faction. There is enough energy to not worry about it and if needed you can just use Zenurik operator. Damage is good enough to clear Hydron map till 15-20 wave and anything tough you can just clear with a gun or melee while it's trying to get up.

[ScytodiDaedalus]

I suggest changing the health orb drop for something such as when an enemy dies after being hit by the Chakram, it stores some charge so you can "carry around" the heals with you, since having someone backtrack for one or two health orbs feels inconvenient. I think that such charges should be released in some sort of regeneration through allies standing on the Firewalker's trail so people easily know where to stick around instead of health orb hunting.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

3 hours ago, Dvvolf said:

I wouldn't worry about his 4th ability right now. We still haven't seen his 4th augment which could possibly fix a lot of problems. 

I think you're correct...

BUT, I personally am not a fan of (what seems to be) the DE practice of using ability augments as quasi-patches for frame abilities.

[Aisu9]

pillar of health / energy regen on hit insted of health and energy orb on death ? more synergy between 2 and 4 pls

[(PSN)Crixus044]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Schobii564 said:

No need to reread it, my vitality isnt even maxed

 

"My missions?" Idk what you think i'm playing but even with the non umbra mods i was nigh unkillable and was the only one without a single death in sortie 3 defense missions and such

 

Nezha's ehp was fine and now it will be quite good

 

If you keep dying you "might" wanna try something else

Sortie 3 is not a good way to compare, neither is any mission. Just because you don't die (neither do I, I still play old school with my revives) means nothing. Banshee in a sortie won't die, saryn is enough ehp to be a tank in sorties and on the flip, bullet jumps are enough damage for sorties. Sorties compared to our frame power is far below our level, but I'm diving into a different topic with this. If your vitality is not ranked all the way, you have a ways to go in the game, unless it's a choice, which is your own choice.

Nezha's EHp is not the issue here, which is what you're not understanding, hence why i asked you to re-read.  My issue is that this will change nothing except limit how much protection you can have to how much EHp you have. If this does not affect you for what you do, then you shouldn't have a problem, nor should you have a problem with me showing the facts, which may affect others including myself. Especially since people think this acts like gara's splinter storm.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Sortie 3 is not a good way to compare, neither is any mission. Just because you don't die (neither do I, I still play old school with my revives) means nothing. Banshee in a sortie won't die, saryn is enough ehp to be a tank in sorties and on the flip, bullet jumps are enough damage for sorties. Sorties compared to our frame power is far below our level, but I'm diving into a different topic with this. If your vitality is not ranked all the way, you have a ways to go in the game, unless it's a choice, which is your own choice.

Nezha's EHp is not the issue here, which is what you're not understanding, hence why i asked you to re-read.  My issue is that this will change nothing except limit how much protection you can have to how much EHp you have. If this does not affect you for what you do, then you shouldn't have a problem, nor should you have a problem with me showing the facts, which may affect others including myself. Especially since people think this acts like gara's splinter storm.

Honestly, any warframe should be capable of doing the normal content which sorties are part of. If Nezha suffers in sorties, he likely should be geared with doing such content in mind. By the same token you shouldn't balance things for starting players or 2 hour survivals, but rather the average player expectations which are higher level dark sectors, index, sorties, and Plains of Eidolon. That includes being able to at least go until those enemies hit level 100 and may or not have damage boosts that can down a warframe in one or two shots.

[Jhura]

I still think moving Fire Walker to be a duration ability instead of a toggle is a poor choice. To get the most out of the ability one would have to mod for serious duration or get less coverage, or just mash the hell out of the 1 key which isn't very sound to his energy consumption. I think all other changes are good, yet the change on Fire Walker just takes one of my favorite parts of Nezha and kinda makes it worse. I mean it was a pretty unique ability, now not so much. Not to mention with the changes to Blazing Chakram and Warding Halo this would make Nezha's energy economy more stable and allow for Fire Walker to remain as it is currently. This also makes the teleportation explosion you get when having Fire Walker on and using the teleport from Blazing Chakram a lot less reliable and depending on the new cost of "mash 1 fore fire" it could be very energy inefficient to do so.

If you are having trouble with energy economy you can always toggle it off, then back on, when your energy is at a better place. With Rage and the change to Warding Halo you wouldn't have to worry about energy at all; even more so with the energy orbs from Blazing Chakram. 

So please, consider leaving Fire Walker as is, it would be greatly appreciated. The other changes sound wonderful and would add great synergy, but just don't touch Fire Walker.

[ODIRION]

On 2018-09-07 at 12:07 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

On our last devstream, we gave players a sneak peek at the fiery Nezha Deluxe skin, which will be available in the coming weeks. As the office’s #1 Nezha enthusiast (sorry Megan), I’m very excited to announce that the deluxe skin release will be accompanied by some power kit changes!
 

[DE]Pablo has been working hard on tweaks, with two primary goals in mind:

• Making Nezha feel smoother and more fluid in gameplay
• Increasing Nezha’s power overall by giving him added team support value and internal synergies

With that said, let’s break down the changes in order!

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

• Increased max rank health from 225 to 375
• Decreased max rank shields from 225 to 150

 

FIRE WALKER

• Changed from a channeling ability to duration-based.
  • Why? As a channeled ability, keeping Firewalker active would block all energy regeneration. Making the ability a single cast with a long moddable duration solves that problem, encouraging more frequent use.
• Cast animation changed to a small hop that doesn’t restrict movement.

 

BLAZING CHAKRAM

• Cast animation has been sped up, and no longer restricts movement.
• Enemies hit by the disc are “marked” for a moddable duration, greatly increasing the damage they take from all sources. Marked enemies have a chance to drop energy orbs.
  • Why? Adds great team value to Nezha’s kit - increasing damage taken helps all allies, and energy orb drops enable frequent recasting.

• Killing enemies while they are marked will now produce healing orbs, instead of the current healing pulse.
  • Why? The current radial heal is invisible and very small, usually only benefitting players in melee range - most players don’t even know it’s there! Health orbs make the result more visible, while introducing other mod synergies.
• Increased the number of targets the disc will try to hit before recalling, and improved some cases of faulty lock-on targeting.
• Added a charged throw, causing the Chakram to fly straight forwards and backwards, dealing extra damage to enemies in its path.
  • Why? For a consistent flight path unaffected by lock-on targeting, use the new charged throw. Great for hallways!

• Teleporting will no longer cancel Fire Walker.

 

WARDING HALO

• HUD now shows a custom counter, indicating how much damage absorption is left, instead of a simple numeric percentage

• Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken. Will still block status effects and other procs.
  • Why? When considering Nezha’s revamped kit, he is excellent at mitigating enemy damage - Firewalker and Divine Spears offer great area/crowd control, Blazing Chakram offers healing and self-sustain, and his outstanding movement can make the player a hard target to hit. In this context, Warding Halo’s 100% damage resistance was completely overshadowing his other options - why heal or CC when I never take any damage?
    With 90% damage resistance, Nezha is still very capable of tanking, but encouraged to rely on his other tools to avoid getting overwhelmed. Taking minimal health damage allows for synergy with Blazing Chakram’s health orbs, not to mention new modding avenues like Equilibrium, Health Conversion and various Arcanes. The change also allows us to improve survivability in other ways, such as the increased health pool, and major Warding Halo quality-of-life buffs listed below.
• Damage absorption invulnerability phase now begins as soon as you cast the ability. Cast animation also sped up.

• Increased incoming damage multiplier during invulnerability. Damage absorption multiplier also now scales with power strength.
• When the health of the Warding Halo runs out, it will do an AoE heat status effect and give you a short period of invulnerability.
  • Why? This gives the player precious time to react, helping survivability while controlling the enemies immediately around you. Your next Warding Halo can be recast during this window to ensure you’re always protected!

(Brief aside: as a Nezha main, I was originally skeptical of the 90% damage resistance change, and I suspect many readers will be skeptical too. However, playing the rework myself quickly changed my mind. The various buffs really outweigh the negatives, making Nezha much more capable in a supporting crowd-controller role. If you doubt just how potent 90% damage resistance can be, try out Gara’s Splinter Storm at 130% or more power strength!)

 

DIVINE SPEARS

• Sped up the casting/slamming animations, while removing the mandatory slam at the end of the Spears’ duration. (slam can still be triggered manually)
• Hitting a speared enemy with Blazing Chakram produces a second Chakram, which fires at a nearby enemy.

 

On top of all that, Nezha’s sounds have been remastered, adding new auditory cues for important moments, like Blazing Chakrams returning to the player, or Warding Halos running out of health!

Keep in mind that everything listed above is subject to change prior to release - with that said, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on what we have so far. We are aiming to have this rework released next week, along with the Deluxe skin bundle. Thanks for reading, and we hope you look forward to Nezha Deluxe!

I can't tell if i like this revisit or not. I don't like the sound of taking hits even with the 3rd on, but we'll see i guess. I already know the skin is not my thing though lolol imma just leave it aside.  Thanks for giving Nehza some love, I guess.

[csaszar]

Make the synergy between the 4th and the 1st a truly useful one and it might work - a real chain reaction what effects all the speared enemies.

The survivability is also needs to look at. The current numbers are too low. Sortie lvl and above will will oneshot his 3rd. Make it a duration based ability with a naturally long duration - around 50 sec at base.

And generally dont compare to other frames bur simply make him useful and worth to play with.

[csaszar]

This far i have bought all the deluxe skins. In my experience this doesnt means i am playing with thoose frames more  - only with thoose which are good enough to do so. Having a good looking frame is one thing but the game also needs to be played.

Btw... the Nezha skin looks awesome 🙂

i really want to have it please make the frame worth using against stronger enemies.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

3 hours ago, Urlan said:

Honestly, any warframe should be capable of doing the normal content which sorties are part of. If Nezha suffers in sorties, he likely should be geared with doing such content in mind. By the same token you shouldn't balance things for starting players or 2 hour survivals, but rather the average player expectations which are higher level dark sectors, index, sorties, and Plains of Eidolon. That includes being able to at least go until those enemies hit level 100 and may or not have damage boosts that can down a warframe in one or two shots.

The easiest way to do this is rather than comparing directly to missions, compare to other similarities with different frames. Because 2 people can play the same frame very differently in 1 mission and similar in another, and vice versa. Balancing around levels is a proven poor choice, because back in 2015, the highest level we had was level 50 on the star chart. Levels change as power creep continuous.

Even then, with the exception of serious fans (who don't make up the majority of players) people usually go for the best of the type, so if you're going for the archetype that nezha falls into, just because nezha "works" doesn't mean he'll be used. The frame that does what he does, except better will be used.

But this is all moot, because my gripe isn't even the performance, it's more the mechanics. The mechanics as they appear here change nothing. It's a direct nerf. EHp is the same (absorb bonus change might improve this slightly, status immunity is the same, but now, there's a hard cap on how effective he can be. Sure this nerf doesn't effect some players, but it does affect other players. Why leave they're opinion out to dry?

[(PSN)Crixus044]

If you want my opinion DE, warding halo idea can be and needs to be improved upon.  The 90% reduction is a nice addition, but as it stands, it's not implemented well enough. Warding halo is still almost exactly like iron skin but less effective, and with your changes, it's soft capped in its effectiveness. It'll still not be interesting and doesn't function like gara's 2, which is an ehp multiplier.

What you should do is make absorb period longer and make it affected by duration mods. Instead of the absorb being 100%, make it 90%. 90% of damage is absorbed while 10% goes through. Making this moddable by duration will make it feel more like gara. Then once the absorb period is up, then it hardens into a ring of complete protection like iron skin. Make it recastable so people can decide if they want the damage reduction or the protective health.

Give blazing chakram a similar affect to reinforcing stomp, so that out heals warding halo health too, thus bringing direct synergy to the frame, rather than forcing it with the changes here. This will be fresh and interesting.

[Sasuda]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

then it hardens into a ring of complete protection like iron skin.

If I'm picking up correctly it's 90% while absorbing and becomes 100% after a moddable duration?

This I'd be cool with. Has a lot cleaner and smarter mod potential to whats proposed. Although if you weren't already intending this, I'd keep a 1 or 2 seconds of invulnerability on the cast & decast for a nice buffer between charges.

And definitely agreed on the Blazing Chakram restoring the Halo.

 

2 things I'd also like for satisfaction:

• Keep a burst heal available to Blazing Chakram, but have the orbs as an additional bonus. Nezha should keep momentum through teleports. Perhaps on charged throw disc hovers for a second before boomeranging back for some consistency. Since we're already slowing down to charge it.
• I personally still am also on board for some more ability to mod the range of Nezha's abilities, with the condition of adding a minimum they cannot drop below.

Dream idea would be having a preview on Pyroclastic Flow by holding ability button, also allowing to bend the path by aiming. (it could have a little more range and duration than it does at base too.) Or allowing to recollect 10% by recasting before it runs out.

[CarrotSalad]

Thats a pretty cool idea.. Hitting enemies with Blazing chakram heals the Halo. That would be sweet.

[GunMute]

On 2018-09-10 at 4:36 PM, Kialandi said:

Don't forget that Primes are released in 2 males/2 females order. So the most likely order of primes is Chroma/Mesa/Equinox/Atlas/Wukong/Ivara/Titania/Nezha. I would expect Nezha Prime in 21 months.

Correct, it's still a long, long way to go. But hey, my 2 mains are getting a prime back to back so the wait will be worth it

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

10 hours ago, ODIRION said:

I can't tell if i like this revisit or not. I don't like the sound of taking hits even with the 3rd on, but we'll see i guess. I already know the skin is not my thing though lolol imma just leave it aside.  Thanks for giving Nehza some love, I guess.

The great thing about Warframe is you can design, or request another community member to design, a different Nezha skin through Tennogen.  It'll take some time, but that's a personal goal for me: to design at least 1 Warframe skin and submit it through the process.

 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

6 hours ago, Sasuda said:

If I'm picking up correctly it's 90% while absorbing and becomes 100% after a moddable duration?

This I'd be cool with. Has a lot cleaner and smarter mod potential to whats proposed. Although if you weren't already intending this, I'd keep a 1 or 2 seconds of invulnerability on the cast & decast for a nice buffer between charges.

And definitely agreed onnthe Blazing Chakram restoring the Halo.

 

2 things I'd also like for satisfaction:

• Keep a burst heal available to Blazing Chakram, but have the orbs as an additional bonus. Nezha should keep momentum through teleports. Perhaps on charged throw disc hovers for a second before boomeranging back for some consistency. Since we're already slowing down to charge it.
• I personally still am also on board for some more ability to mod the range of Nezha's abilities, with the condition of adding a minimum they cannot drop below.

Dream idea would be having a preview on Pyroclastic Flow by holding ability button, also allowing to bend the path by aiming. (it could have a little more range and duration than it does at base too.) Or allowing to recollect 10% by recasting before it runs out.

Kinda like how gara has invulnerability during mass vitrify right? 2 seconds invulnerability during casting animation would be quite good, though i don't know if they can make it into a 100% absorb period as well. Still good for more dangerous situations.

[Urlan]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

The great thing about Warframe is you can design, or request another community member to design, a different Nezha skin through Tennogen.  It'll take some time, but that's a personal goal for me: to design at least 1 Warframe skin and submit it through the process.

 

Well, you or other players can design different helmets at least, but skins are more akin to the Immortals, just a different design on the same look. Either way, I hope the personal goal works out!