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Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

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10 hours ago, ODIRION said:

I can't tell if i like this revisit or not. I don't like the sound of taking hits even with the 3rd on, but we'll see i guess. I already know the skin is not my thing though lolol imma just leave it aside.  Thanks for giving Nehza some love, I guess.

The great thing about Warframe is you can design, or request another community member to design, a different Nezha skin through Tennogen.  It'll take some time, but that's a personal goal for me: to design at least 1 Warframe skin and submit it through the process.

 

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6 hours ago, Sasuda said:

If I'm picking up correctly it's 90% while absorbing and becomes 100% after a moddable duration?

This I'd be cool with. Has a lot cleaner and smarter mod potential to whats proposed. Although if you weren't already intending this, I'd keep a 1 or 2 seconds of invulnerability on the cast & decast for a nice buffer between charges.

And definitely agreed onnthe Blazing Chakram restoring the Halo.

 

2 things I'd also like for satisfaction:

  • Keep a burst heal available to Blazing Chakram, but have the orbs as an additional bonus. Nezha should keep momentum through teleports. Perhaps on charged throw disc hovers for a second before boomeranging back for some consistency. Since we're already slowing down to charge it.
  • I personally still am also on board for some more ability to mod the range of Nezha's abilities, with the condition of adding a minimum they cannot drop below.


Dream idea would be having a preview on Pyroclastic Flow by holding ability button, also allowing to bend the path by aiming. (it could have a little more range and duration than it does at base too.) Or allowing to recollect 10% by recasting before it runs out.

Kinda like how gara has invulnerability during mass vitrify right? 2 seconds invulnerability during casting animation would be quite good, though i don't know if they can make it into a 100% absorb period as well. Still good for more dangerous situations.

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33 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRallykiller said:

The great thing about Warframe is you can design, or request another community member to design, a different Nezha skin through Tennogen.  It'll take some time, but that's a personal goal for me: to design at least 1 Warframe skin and submit it through the process.

 

Well, you or other players can design different helmets at least, but skins are more akin to the Immortals, just a different design on the same look. Either way, I hope the personal goal works out!

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could his flames from his first also mark the enemies? as well as that could the blazing chakram leave the same trail to create hazards that will mark enemies increasing the damage done? I don't think we have any hazard frames and it would be pretty cool.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)EmilsTekcor said:

could his flames from his first also mark the enemies? as well as that could the blazing chakram leave the same trail to create hazards that will mark enemies increasing the damage done? I don't think we have any hazard frames and it would be pretty cool.

It would be nice to have it have more use, as it doesn't do much damage or reliable crowd control alone.

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Hi all!

"Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken."

I'm sad. That should be maximum 5% taken from Warding Halo not 10%...

Not tested out yet, but will it soon.

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3 hours ago, Urlan said:

Well, you or other players can design different helmets at least, but skins are more akin to the Immortals, just a different design on the same look. Either way, I hope the personal goal works out!

LOL, me too!

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4 hours ago, Urlan said:

Well, you or other players can design different helmets at least, but skins are more akin to the Immortals, just a different design on the same look. Either way, I hope the personal goal works out!

Even then, especially nyx's tennogen skins, completely change the look of the frame. You can do a lot even without editing the model of the frame itself

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24 minutes ago, Reaver1986 said:

Hi all!

"Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken."

I'm sad. That should be maximum 5% taken from Warding Halo not 10%...

Not tested out yet, but will it soon.

As a gara player I can asure you than 90% its more than enough unless your planning on doing rhino kind of tanking.

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8 minutes ago, calenhed33 said:

As a gara player I can asure you than 90% its more than enough unless your planning on doing rhino kind of tanking.

Hi there.

Did you tried out Mesa Shatter Shield ability? (95% damage reduction) Perfect.

Should be Nezha Warding Halo ability 95% or maximum 94% damage reduction ( 5-6% take away okay, but straight 10% too much )

Yes i'm using my Nezha as a buffer (and tank when the situation needs it).

Best Regards

Edited by Reaver1986
Plus info

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3 minutes ago, Reaver1986 said:

Hi there.

Did you tried out Mesa Shatter Shield ability? (95% damage reduction) Perfect.

Should be Nezha Warding Halo ability 95% or maximum 94% damage reduction ( 5-6% take away okay, but straight 10% too much )

Yes i'm using my Nezha as a buffer (and tank when the situation needs it).

Best Regards

Yeah, I use a lot of Mesa, and her shatter shield its overkill for a frame with regeneration means like Nezha, on Mesa its ok because unless she melee to heal herself or rely on a furis/hema, she cant recover that lost health points.

Nezha on the other side have a form of CC attached to the protective ability on top of healing means and lots of CC as well on his other abilities.

Also, 90% damage reduction its a lot, and its way more usefull than his previous 100% damage reduction glass quality ability.
Rhino its a good example of how bad his old halo was, since he can only tank high level content because his 2 augments combo that allow him to reach 70k-120k iron skin health without any bizzare effort.
Nezha on the other side never ever was able to get more than 10k, 12k at best on VERY extreme situations. Also, once his halo was at the break point you where basically dead. Cant recast it to refresh it, nor break it on purpose on a safe way, and very often on long mot runs for example you get downed from 5% remaining halo to 0 health on the single same shot.

I tested actual Nezha on mot (a situation where he used to die A LOT unless you where sliding like a madman) and he can survive way better than before, specially if you have something to heal yourself like magus elevate, arcane grace or just use his chakram (I personally use elevate).

 

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13 minutes ago, calenhed33 said:

Yeah, I use a lot of Mesa, and her shatter shield its overkill for a frame with regeneration means like Nezha, on Mesa its ok because unless she melee to heal herself or rely on a furis/hema, she cant recover that lost health points.

Nezha on the other side have a form of CC attached to the protective ability on top of healing means and lots of CC as well on his other abilities.

Also, 90% damage reduction its a lot, and its way more usefull than his previous 100% damage reduction glass quality ability.
Rhino its a good example of how bad his old halo was, since he can only tank high level content because his 2 augments combo that allow him to reach 70k-120k iron skin health without any bizzare effort.
Nezha on the other side never ever was able to get more than 10k, 12k at best on VERY extreme situations. Also, once his halo was at the break point you where basically dead. Cant recast it to refresh it, nor break it on purpose on a safe way, and very often on long mot runs for example you get downed from 5% remaining halo to 0 health on the single same shot.

I tested actual Nezha on mot (a situation where he used to die A LOT unless you where sliding like a madman) and he can survive way better than before, specially if you have something to heal yourself like magus elevate, arcane grace or just use his chakram (I personally use elevate).

 

Possible life orbs aren't what I would consider regeneration means. Still hope it works out for your build.

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build base on 1 skill died, i like it.

the second ability is simply great now, thank you very much for the sinergy, it really improved the frame, good work guys;

the third ability still looks confusing to me, i dont know how to read that blocked damage counter? when exactly the halo ends? does durability influence it?

fourth ability, i loved the sinergy with the chackram, simply loved the rework boys;

 

so far my only concern is the warding halo cause it looks lil confusing to me, but so far i loved the rework, thank you guys for the hard work.

and thats what the game needs, sinergy at the warframe skills.

PS.: i didnt comment the skins and visual effects because i have no words for that kind of beauty, its a masterpiece.

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4 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Possible life orbs aren't what I would consider regeneration means. Still hope it works out for your build.

try using heath conversion mod and arcane pulse, arcane pulse + chackram = oh my god

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49 minutes ago, Reaver1986 said:

Did you tried out Mesa Shatter Shield ability? (95% damage reduction) Perfect.

The issue here is Mesa has a base armor of 65 while Nezha has a base armor of 175, that's almost triple the armor value. If you gain another 125 armor on nezha you would gain 95% damage reduction. And if you have the potnetial to gain more than 95% damage reduction. While Mesa can't really play around with armor because her bases are too low, Nezha can potentially have more dmg reduction depending on how you build him.

Edited by Cibyllae

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Glad the casting time changes make Natural Talent optional, but it was a mistake to drop the teleport explosion.  The explosion wasn't good enough for you to take it away, but it was a little bit of fun and Nezha should keep all the fun.  The teleport isn't really any good, but at least an explosion is fun.

The Halo-ending explosion, like basically all the explosions in Warframe, sucks and is practically unnoticeable (seriously, how do you not have better explosions by now?), especially with Nezha being even more visually noisy now than before.  Much too visually noisy.  I had hoped the explosion would help make it obvious when I was in the critical Halo-reset window, but it's no easier to see Halo run out than before.  Easily knowing Halo ran out should be a key fix you don't leave this rework without doing.

Also, stop making things that are lifebars show up as other things.  Halo strength needs to be a life bar.  We know you can put lifebars there because you did for Venari.  There should be a bar with a number by it.  The bar starts full and the number goes up during absorption, then the bar goes down from there so we can see our protection depleting without having to read a number in the corner of the screen.  Same goes for Rhino.  This is important.

Chakram needs some kind of indication that it's out there.  The cast icon should make a clear change, at least, or something.  It stays out longer now, moves more randomly, and we throw it a lot more, so accidental teleports are very annoying and not a feature (especially with no explosion).

Since the spear slam is optional now and requires us to do it, I think it should be more damaging/substantial/interesting.

Can't turn Firewalker off, and recasting resets the duration, so looks like the augment is as dead as it could possibly be.  Just unapologetically ruining an augment seems pretty rude.  At the least, augment users should have Firewalker turn off when they re-cast.

EDIT: Another note about Halo ending.  Because we probably have Firewalker on, the "sets enemies on fire" part of losing your Halo is really inconsequential.  Even stopping and specifically watching for Halo to run out, I hardly noticed anything.  This is life-and-death for a Nezha.  It needs to be more obvious.

Edited by TyrianMollusk
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On 2018-09-11 at 11:15 AM, n.ull. said:

Sry but doesnt health conversion work much better now, and also as far as i understand all the enemies hit by chakrum get marked so it really isnt that useless health and energy conversion mods seem to be pretty good with him which both really help him with surviving, but i do agree with you about the damage absortion cap, that will hopefully get raised.

With the rework just getting released this is a moot  point because it got reworked but not Health conversion made less since because it use to loose charges when you would take damage. Even to shields that weren't affected by shield but would have been affected by the DR making it so that by the time your health  was hit  you'd have lost all of your charges however they changed health conversion so that you only lose charges when you take health damage. 

 

However HC was only good because you could make halo have a pretty Tanky ehp.

I haven't seen everything yet but it looks like the halo is no longer affected by armor... and it gets wrecked REALLY QUICKLY.

Just waiting to see some stats.

Before I give my final consensus. 

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I didn't really notice anything special in the simulacrum, but he did feel a bit more tanky, so I took him to MOT. I was pleasantly surprised at how well he worked there. His kit is a lot to manage tho. Before you were just invincible and you would need to get away from enemies when your halo was low, self damage and then reset your 3. Now you need to watch your 3, your health, pay attention to your invulnerability windows, etc.

It's a lot to think about for Nezha, and I thought he was more about just having fun. It is an interesting playstyle, but I just don't know exactly how I feel about the changes yet. 90% damage reduction is OP for most Warframe content, but you can still get destroyed at higher level. Nezha could always get destroyed at higher level, but before the changes you could manage it a bit better with the right build. On MOT, 90% just means you'll see huge chunks of health disappearing early on and you'll still probably get killed in 1-2 shots as you go further.

I think it would be better if you just got rid of Warding Halo's HP altogether. What purpose does it serve? What other frame has damage reduction connected to a healthpool? It made more sense when you were completely invulnerable. That was the balance, but now it seems a bit unbalanced IMO. It means you constantly need to use your 3 and you are still taking damage while you have it up. 

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As an additional note, I'd like to point out that by making Nezha's kit much more active and weakening Halo's protection, you have seriously exacerbated a problem just about all your support frames have: when they encounter your cheating magic energy draining enemies, they shut-down.  Since Nezha is built to rely on powers and active casting just to stay alive, ability cancelling is a serious problem and energy drain just outright deletes him.

Consider making Warding Halo cancel energy drain, since it lets damage through now.  Might make it easier to swallow for those against, and it makes him special with a notably unique niche in being able to support through energy drain enemies.  Nezha's fun is so fun he can even play in the no-fun zones.

Also, thanks for making the charge-cast on Chakram quick.  That was a pleasant surprise, especially as a controller user.  Much appreciated.

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4 hours ago, Urlan said:

as well as that could the blazing chakram leave the same trail to create hazards

This would be very cool, but it should only do it with Firewalker active, otherwise Firewalker isn't really needed at all, and I don't think the fire trail should mark, because then Chakram isn't needed.

Edited by TyrianMollusk

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi said:

With the rework just getting released this is a moot  point because it got reworked but not Health conversion made less since because it use to loose charges when you would take damage. Even to shields that weren't affected by shield but would have been affected by the DR making it so that by the time your health  was hit  you'd have lost all of your charges however they changed health conversion so that you only lose charges when you take health damage. 

 

However HC was only good because you could make halo have a pretty Tanky ehp.

I haven't seen everything yet but it looks like the halo is no longer affected by armor... and it gets wrecked REALLY QUICKLY.

Just waiting to see some stats.

Before I give my final consensus. 

I barely had to cast Halo in today's sortie, it just lasted and it felt good to not have to worry about it.

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13 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

I barely had to cast Halo in today's sortie, it just lasted and it felt good to not have to worry about it.

Personally I'd like it if it was like a damage mitigatior that would negate any damage below a certain amount like if you have it at 1000 damage mitigation then enemies have to deal that amount in a certain period of time in order to deal damage.

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I main Nezha and don't pay much attention to the forums so this change caught me by surprise.  I just spent 30 minutes in the Sanctuary wondering WTF was wrong with my Warding Halo.  This change does NOT FEEL GOOD.  I'm constantly taking damage and having to worry about my small health pool.

It feels like now I have to rebuild Nehza to have Steel Fiber and Redirection, just like all my other Frames.  One of the many things I loved about Nezha was the diversity of builds you could have by not having to have to pay the Steel Fiber and Redirection tax.  This change will reduce build options an diversity greatly.  I've played this game since 2013 and this is the first change that I feel truly negative about.  I didn't even know it was coming, it just suddenly showed up and my favourite frame doesn't feel good to play anymore, he's just like all the others.

 

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