Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

[Sasuda]

2 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

you'd need vitality otherwise

Nezha used to be pretty safe to run without Health mods, Now he tends to need them in places he didn't before. So building for Range or Duration instead is less of an option. Still an option, to be fair. But Nezha's viable build strategies are less effective than they used to be and less likely to be good options. His builds tend to be a lot more same-y than they used to be seems to be what the poster was getting at. Didn't say anything about

2 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

they don't need range or power efficiency or duration mods?

A bit off topic

Spoiler

No need for the

2 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

someone is simply bad both at warfarme and modding

If you feel that way teaching another player strategies rather than telling them they're simply bad, maybe helpful in convincing them to agree with you. And just a more kind way of communicating in general, keeping to the guidelines of good forum posting.

 

 

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

If you feel that way teaching another player strategies rather than telling them they're simply bad, maybe helpful in convincing them to agree with you.

Youtube will teach them. Wiki will. Experience will. I already stated numerous ways how one can keep themselves alive with Nezha, I'm not getting paid for teaching infants how to breath.

If someone says they don't want to use vitality or die with a frame that has 90% dr in a lv100< misisons while being perfectly able to use any kind of healing/damage reduction from vitality,steel fiber, wings of purity,life strike, arcane pulse, arcane grace, arcane guardian or health conversion. I really couldn't bother.

[Xyhon]

Rework is nice and all, but you need to work on chakram pathing. It very often doesn't hit targets, especially in multi games when you are not hosting, sometimes just passing through enemies and not triggering anything (rebound, impaled enemies produce no multi chakram, not getting debuffed, etc.) Also, after further testing, if I am not a host, my ward on depletion doesn't do anything to enemies even standing close on same level/without obstacles. Makes whole thing feel clunky and not reliable in terms of surviving.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Pablo is getting pretty popular these days. 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

15 hours ago, Sasuda said:

I think I know where you're coming from and I'm gonna be a bit nitpicky here. Most Warframe abilities can go through snowglobe no problem. Regular weapons can't, and I'm not asking for regular weapons to. But I think all abilities should be able to, in the same vein as abilities with Limbo's Rift vs weapons with Limbo's rift. 

Well Limbo's rift plane does not have a wall blocking attacks between them. What are these "most" warframe abilities you are referring to, I'm pretty sure you're referencing direct targeted attacks like smite/soul punch etc and or special abilities that simply ignore it like Mesa's hitscan or excalibur's energy waves otherwise if it's a projectile it's not getting through snow globe especially since chakram is designed to bounce when it hits anything with a semblance of a wall or enemy.

15 hours ago, Sasuda said:

I don't think this is really the case DE actually has huge lists of things and I think it's just never been a huge priority for them for whatever reason. Whether it's complexity or something they've put off as being a part of it'll be fixed the next time DE comes around to fixing things with Frost. There was a bug with hacking that didn't allow the puzzle to finish for years before they fixed it, that they knew about since release. Sometimes there's changes they want to make but just can't budget time for. Sometimes they haven't decided for sure how they want things to operate. Sometimes the game changes enough for them to make changes they wouldn't have before. There's a number of reasons that could be, and maybe it'll happen maybe it won't. But players requesting things for long enough usually results in some action taken. So if you'd want it to happen, requesting it is fine even if it doesn't happen or it seems like it never will. Personally I think all abilities passing through is better consistency and much better for playing together so I myself am gonna request that change. But if you still think it should be this way you're free to disagree, if you have reasons that change my mind on it go for it.

 

I specifically said that simply because Gara's mass vitrify works the same as snow globe but allows the exact thing your vying for. If they could do that for one frame why can't they change the snow globe properties? Or even then, why didn't they change it when frost got reworked/revisited some years back? So as I've said before if they wanted to they would've done it already. Nothing stopping them from being able to change snow globe's properties to act like gara's mass vitrify. So it just means that they want it to stay as it is.

 

15 hours ago, Sasuda said:

No the reasons pointed out why it was bad at healing, not why Health orbs are better than burst heal. The reasons why it was bad were all available to be changed without switching to Health Orbs. I do still think it's a bad change, actually. I found the burst heal far more effective than Health orbs. The health orbs do come with certain advantages, however I don't believe the pros outweigh the cons. They are stable lingering healing, but they heal a tiny fraction of what the burst heal does and Blazing Chakram doesn't consistently hit large groups of enemies nor are there consistently groups of available enemies. The burst heal only required 1 good target which made it very consistent for Nezha who because of Warding Halo's original 100% reduction fit pretty well as a quick recovery. Nezha no longer has that quick recovery, he's now always needing to upkeep health (if you're talking about low level missions no he doesn't need to but that was already the case prior to the rework and not a good case for an example in this context). The point here is I need to spam Chakram to keep Nezha alive with health in scenarios I didn't used to. Which is why it's a bad synergy, I'm not choosing to use Chakram because it's a better healing mechanic I'm choosing to because I need the Health.
Yes Blazing Chakram can stand on it's own if it didn't have the Health orbs is the point here, now that it's received all of the other changes. So why then is needing to heal with orbs the reason Warding Halo was nerfed to 90%. That's what I'm getting at here. The reason DE stated it got changed for doesn't exist when it's got other uses. But to begin with if Chakram contributed to Halo's health instead of nerfing Halo's effectiveness it would've been able to provide Healing that was useful anyway.

Alright let us again look at the benefits of health orbs

• Lasts indefinitely
• Allows the constant use of health conversion which in turn boosts warding halo
• Allies benefit from it (they don't have to be near the enemy to receive healing)
• Allows the use of Equilibrium which = indefinite energy 

The cons are easily dismissable

• Health orbs only heal 25 health per enemy but easily rectified with reaping chakram and or just simply using divine spears + chakram
• Needs groups of enemies - if there aren't groups of enemies then more than likely you aren't going to need constant healing

The Burst heal wasn't even considered good, heck most people didn't even know nezha could heal. A long range ability that makes a short range healing isn't even something that makes sense. And I doubt DE would buff the range on that gimmick with the track record they have. 

You don't have to spam the ability if you don't want to, I know I will because it's fun as hell since it's one-handed action that doesn't hinder you. You can simply slap on a steel fiber and be safe in higher levels while using chakram to restore the lost health. Either way, you're making it sound like your health is instantly gone despite the 90% dmg reduction. High armor + 90% dmg reduction doesn't make nezha any less tankier than any other frame with the same dmg reduction. Hell if you're running health conversion + steel fiber you don't have to worry about healing with warding halo on. Other frames have 90% - 95% dmg reduction and still do extremely well in those upper levels and only 1 of them (off the top of my head, probably more) has a sustainable ability to heal themselves which surprise surprise, is by health orbs. 

I'm pretty sure warding halo being nerfed to 90% wasn't just because of chakram but maybe just maybe to make use for Equilibrium/Health Conversion? Nezha is the second frame that can make use of these two great mods and chakram does contribute to warding halo via health conversion 😉 . So no matter how much you think it's a nerf, the people that hopped into mot with nezha has no problem surviving for more than an hour. The resuslts are the same as if he had 100% dmg red on warding halo.

 

16 hours ago, Sasuda said:

Neither of these abilities are exclusive damage or CC. They are both hybrids which is why I compare them. Radial Javelin does slightly favor damage and Divine spears Slightly favors CC. Radial Javelin is lacking in it's damage capacity which is why it could use a tweak to give it some more damage, considering Radial Blind/Howl's CC. But then Exalted Blade is also more effective at damage so it could also be tweaked for better CC. In either case though it's not worth the cost. Radial Javelin does actually have some small uses because the radial CC and damage are both things that are useful but it's just not worth the cost for what it gives. Divine Spears is in a similar boat not because the CC it has is terrible and not because the damage is terrible but because neither is worth the cost for what it gives to Nezha. Firewalker has subtly become noticeably less useful for CC with the way Nezha operates more resembling a spam caster with less aggressive movement now, but Divine Spears CC, range, duration and Damage aren't worth 100 energy spam casts to maintain that CC or damage. Not calling for anything too major here either. just a 5m bump up in range, and availability of Firewalker damage would do the trick to make it worthwhile.

4

They might be hybrids but their main uses differ by a fair margin. Radial Javelin doesn't "slightly" favor damage, it is supposed to be a damage ability or more accurately, an AoE damage. A little tacked on stun isn't going to make it any less of a damage ability to be considered a hybrid with CC. What people expect when they use R.Javelin is enemies pinned to the wall, not enemies stunned in place. The blind CC and damage of R.Javelin are lacking, how does it find uses when the 2nd ability is the main CC and the 4th does better damage. 

Nezha's Divine Spears is far more reliable because it does what it's supposed to do. It's hardly lackluster and is still a good ability. And yes we're not mentioning the synergy with chakram because for whatever reason it's still not worth the cost. Not like Nezha can keep up his energy now more than ever since these changes. 

Ok, how does firewalker became less noticeable for CC, nothing changed with it other than from duration to channel, so that means the CC was already lackluster before based on what you're saying? I don't know how you play or who you play with but all the nezha's I've seen and played with are still as aggressive with nezha as they were before, just because you have to press 1 every 30+ seconds makes him less aggressive? Divine Spears CC and Synergy with chakram makes it worth the cost, and using it for its damage is something you're misleading yourself with. I don't understand what you mean about the availability of firewalker damage, other than channel - duration nothing with it has changed. 

17 hours ago, Sasuda said:

I'm not exactly sure what you were saying here, but I think you're talking about why the abilities get reset. Which in that case I think I do have a pretty good idea of why that is. It's because in the early game life Warframe kinda wasn't sure if it wanted to have platforming game elements, which is why we used to have Excal's super Jump. Since then the parkour and level design has shifted vastly away from that and really become most oriented towards fast past horde killing.
So anyway as a encouragement to make your jumps successfully, abilities were turned off whenever you fell into a pit. Even into pits with visible floors, modern Warframe has changed many of these pits into actual floors that no longer reset you. That's where it comes from as far as I can tell, there's a good number of reasons it doesn't really make sense in the game anymore though. One of them being players intentionally jumping into to reset abilities. A lot of abilities have been changed over time to be recastable in some form in part because of this, there are a few though that haven't like Iron Skin, Null Star, (although they kind of have become recastable with the augments) and Warding Halo.

Warframe's abilities resetting when falling out of map bounds has nothing to do with parkour 1.0. As I've stated iirc this wasn't always the case (since I vaguely remember keeping my hysteria on even when falling off the map) and more than likely this change came to fix a bug of some sort. Or for another reason that you nor I would know about.

[Slimspadey101]

12 hours ago, Xyhon said:

Rework is nice and all, but you need to work on chakram pathing. It very often doesn't hit targets, especially in multi games when you are not hosting, sometimes just passing through enemies and not triggering anything (rebound, impaled enemies produce no multi chakram, not getting debuffed, etc.) Also, after further testing, if I am not a host, my ward on depletion doesn't do anything to enemies even standing close on same level/without obstacles. Makes whole thing feel clunky and not reliable in terms of surviving.

I think I've experienced the same issue. In a group of 4 doing a fissure survival there were multiple times where I would be targeting an enemy with Chakram who is impaled and it would just pass through them without effect. Other times Chakram would appear to hit an enemy but have no effect. Idk it definitely feels off. That said, the charged throw has been reliable outside of the Divine Spears synergy issue.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

Okay, just realized Nezha still needs some changes.

Firewalker's Speed Boost needs to increase with Power Strength, it's flat for some reason.

The teleport on Chakram needs to serve some kind of purpose. I'd prefer it to create an AoE Fire Proc, but even making it so it causes a "Mark" AoE would be nice, as Chakram has been shown to still be a bit buggy.

Warding Halo's fine, but I'd say the fact we can't replenish it in any way kind of blows. Maybe make it so running into enemies gives you some of it back, based on the damage it deals? 

Divine Spears still doesn't let Fire Walker affect enemies impaled, which is pretty counter-productive to Nezha's new schtick as a damage dealer, especially with Pyroclastic Flow. Speaking of Warding Halo, it'd be great if running into enemies on Spears healed a percentage of your Warding Halo. It'd also be nice to get an Augment or some kind of change that would allow Divine Spears to do some real damage, or maybe even support Nezha in some way (hence the Warding Halo suggestion). Right now they're kind of just used for Chakram blending.

Thanks as always, DE.

[megamino]

First of all, i have bad feeling about replacing the chakram burst into health orb, but until now i think i kinda agree because of the challenge. So in that way, i can have more fun playing nezha in MOT rather than old Nezha.

[LSG501]

More feedback after 'finishing' my build.

Firewalker: It's 'ok', still feel the duration could be longer but it's recastable so it's something I can live with.  As mentioned above, maybe have speed buff scaling or maybe making it a bit higher, I hardly even notice the speed buff in all honesty. 

Blazing Chakram: Tracking/targeting on this really needs to be looked at, it's really bad a lot of the time.  Would also like it to not cost any energy if it doesn't hit a target or get used for teleport....with the issue with it missing targets as often as it does we end up wasting a lot of energy. 

When it works, it works really well, hitting lots of targets in most cases and dropping plenty of health like it's supposed to but in my experience the amount of energy being dropped is basically just enough to replace the energy I've just used to throw it out in the first place...  some will obviously say use equilibrium to get energy from the health orbs but that only works if you've got space for a health orb to be used (Pablo, it would be nice if equilibrium could maybe get a look at instead of or along with health conversion 🙂).  Essentially I feel that you could probably reduce the number of health orbs dropping (even with my build using health conversion) and up the energy drop rate a little and I'm not even running a negative efficiency build, it's at 100%.

Teleport, got to say I've been teleporting unexpectedly (along with the grineer commander 'disorientation') a lot more than at the beginning because I'm using Blazing Chakram more, some of that is due to the first issue of it not hitting the target and some is due to wanting to make use of the damage buff.  So I have to say I kind of liked Pablo's idea of it only working on charged throws to prevent this.  Also doesn't help that from a visibility standpoint, I'm using the deluxe skin with the syandana, I can't always make out, especially if I'm using melee on a bunch of enemies, that the Chakram is out so I'm sometimes trying to 'throw it again' too early which increases the teleportation issues. 

Warding Halo: No real issues with this change (although I still feel the extra scaling is slow unless you get high fire rate enemies), although I do still miss 100% protection, but the invulnerability stage when it disables could do with being made a little more prominent (audio cue, or a better/louder one, would be nice) and maybe have that invulnerability phase last just a little longer than it does now.  

Also seems that I'm taking damage from some 'status effects', which we're supposed to be immune from, so might be a bug you need to fix there. 

Divine Spears: Still feel this needs 'something' to make it better than it currently is.  It seems it doesn't allow enemies to take damage from firewalker so maybe make it so it can pass damage up the spikes if you're running firewalker or something.  Could even be reworked similar to gara mass vitrify where the number of enemies has an impact on the ability, maybe scaling the damage done from the spears.  Even something as simple as damage over time could make it better, it would also give another reason to use duration as the longer they're impaled the more damage they take.  Like I say, imo, it just needs 'something' to make it worth being an ability that costs 100 energy.

 

Bug maybe: I've watched it miss enemies, which are clearly in range, so it would be nice if it did catch 100% like it's supposed to. 

 

7 hours ago, (XB1)Graysmog said:

The teleport on Chakram needs to serve some kind of purpose. I'd prefer it to create an AoE Fire Proc, but even making it so it causes a "Mark" AoE would be nice, as Chakram has been shown to still be a bit buggy. 

It kind of already does do an AoE, if you have firewalker active and you teleport it leaves a fire 'donut' where you teleported to, not sure if it's doing much damage mind.  I can see where you're coming from though, it would be nice if it was always a thing. 

Actually if this donut is doing damage I wouldn't mind it 'floating down to ground level' because 90% of the time I'm teleporting slighting into the air so the ring is above the enemies. 

 

 

[Budumpshh]

Chakram really doesn't seem to want to hit enemies in missions even when thrown directly in front of them.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Tracking/targeting on this really needs to be looked at, it's really bad a lot of the time.  Would also like it to not cost any energy if it doesn't hit a target or get used for teleport....with the issue with it missing targets as often as it does we end up wasting a lot of energy. 

That's strange, I'm usually hitting enemies with it 98% of the time. Especially when chakram hit's an enemy, it doesn't come back unless it hits enemies for a certain amount of time. Unless you're talking about when it doesn't hit an enemy then I understand what you mean, but a temporary fix is to just hit an enemy with chakram until they can get the tracking sorted it when it doesn't hit an enemy directly.

Would you like every ability that misses an enemy to cost no energy as well? What you're saying doesn't make sense since energy is required to start the ability either way. 

 

5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Pablo, it would be nice if equilibrium could maybe get a look at instead of or along with health conversion 🙂

Equilibrium is fine and Health Conversion's change was indeed a needed change.

5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

  Essentially I feel that you could probably reduce the number of health orbs dropping (even with my build using health conversion) and up the energy drop rate a little and I'm not even running a negative efficiency build, it's at 100%.

Each enemy drops one health orb, this is increased with reaping chakram. Why should the health orbs get a reduced drop rate?  Don't nerf something that doesn't need nerfing, Nezha is far from energy hound, If you're not picking up health orbs then simply, you're not in a high mission. That's just gonna nerf his effectiveness in high levels to suit lower levels. 

 

5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Teleport, got to say I've been teleporting unexpectedly (along with the grineer commander 'disorientation') a lot more than at the beginning because I'm using Blazing Chakram more, some of that is due to the first issue of it not hitting the target and some is due to wanting to make use of the damage buff.  So I have to say I kind of liked Pablo's idea of it only working on charged throws to prevent this.  Also doesn't help that from a visibility standpoint, I'm using the deluxe skin with the syandana, I can't always make out, especially if I'm using melee on a bunch of enemies, that the Chakram is out so I'm sometimes trying to 'throw it again' too early which increases the teleportation issues. 

I don't see how the reasons listed above make you press 2 earlier than it should be, especially when it misses and if you're able to see that it miss then you know that it isn't recalled yet. How can you not know when your chakram is out? I can be in the chaos that is groups of orokin enemies and know when my chakram comes back but that's just me. Trying to look for something like chakram among the chaos of hectic abilities and enemies in warframe is the wrong way. Chakram has distinct audio cues when it's in flight and when it returns, there's even a nice little effect that happens everytime it returns. I even noticed that it shows up on the minimap, unneeded but can't argue against it. Actually, you are supposed to know if the chakram is out if you have to press 2 to throw it  🤔Unless you meant the other way around which then what I said before still applies.

[TyrianMollusk]

On 2018-09-13 at 2:04 PM, LSG501 said:

Considering it's the 'fourth' and most expensive ability it seems to be rather lacking when you compare it to some other frames fourth abilities, let alone the potential damage from saryn's first ability....

I feel this way too.  Since the end phase of Divine Spears now requires active participation and stopping to cast it, I think the energy cost should be divided between the two casts and the slam phase should be more dramatic and beneficial if we choose to apply it.  I could even see a higher total energy cost if the slam were dramatically improved and the spears initial cost still felt fair on top of that.

Also, if a Firewalker trail is touching a spear, it should affect the enemy on the spear.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, ShadowExodus said:

1 - That's strange, I'm usually hitting enemies with it 98% of the time. Especially when chakram hit's an enemy, it doesn't come back unless it hits enemies for a certain amount of time. Unless you're talking about when it doesn't hit an enemy then I understand what you mean, but a temporary fix is to just hit an enemy with chakram until they can get the tracking sorted it when it doesn't hit an enemy directly.

2 - Would you like every ability that misses an enemy to cost no energy as well? What you're saying doesn't make sense since energy is required to start the ability either way. 

 

3 - Equilibrium is fine and Health Conversion's change was indeed a needed change. 

Each enemy drops one health orb, this is increased with reaping chakram. Why should the health orbs get a reduced drop rate?  Don't nerf something that doesn't need nerfing, Nezha is far from energy hound, If you're not picking up health orbs then simply, you're not in a high mission. That's just gonna nerf his effectiveness in high levels to suit lower levels.  

 

4 - I don't see how the reasons listed above make you press 2 earlier than it should be, especially when it misses and if you're able to see that it miss then you know that it isn't recalled yet. How can you not know when your chakram is out? I can be in the chaos that is groups of orokin enemies and know when my chakram comes back but that's just me. Trying to look for something like chakram among the chaos of hectic abilities and enemies in warframe is the wrong way. Chakram has distinct audio cues when it's in flight and when it returns, there's even a nice little effect that happens everytime it returns. I even noticed that it shows up on the minimap, unneeded but can't argue against it. Actually, you are supposed to know if the chakram is out if you have to press 2 to throw it  🤔Unless you meant the other way around which then what I said before still applies.

1 - It has issues with actually hitting a target the first time a lot of the time (in my and other people's experience, you just need to look through this thread), I've been 'right in front' of an enemy and it's missed it, I've sent it into the distance (in range obviously) with the pointer/reticle directly on the target and it missed it. 

When it does hit it an enemy it does what it's supposed to do which is bounce around to some others, albeit sometimes it's selective in what it hits in a group and some get left out.

2 - Actually if the ability requires contact with an enemy to do it's function then yes I do.  The Ash bladestorm rework has shown how it can work, if the marked target isn't attacked in bladestorm due to it no longer being there due to it's death etc then the ability cost is refunded. 

3 - To be honest I missed the patch note that the change to Health Conversion had gone through (only saw Pablo saying on twitter about wanting to look at it), didn't feel the change was needed but still it's done and it's no worse than before so no complaints on the change. 

Yeah you've just proven my point about how we could lower the amount of health dropping, as you say EVERY enemy drops health, if you need that much health you're doing something wrong...  Now I'm not suggesting going 50/50 but taking it down by 10-20% on health and increasing energy by the same would, imo, be a better balance.

Equilibrium on the other hand still has incredibly limited usage scenarios where it's actually useful, imo it only reliably works with a despoil nekros due to constant health loss, so like I say it would be nice for a 'Pablo once over' and see what he thinks.

4 - Yet some of us do have the issue with teleporting when you don't want to (I'm not the only one either), obviously I must be playing him a little different to you or my build is different and shows the issues more easily than yours.  You've also just supported me in what I said the issue is when it comes to 'visually' seeing chakram is there or not.  The easiest solution (maybe not in the code though) is a 'toggle' switch, not an augment because that's wasting a slot to fix a usability issue, where we can select teleport on charge or teleport on any throw. 

[(XBOX)a0moura]

On 2018-09-07 at 1:18 PM, Voltage said:

I like this change.

This change makes absolutely no sense and feels like forced synergy much like Atlas. Reducing the damage reduction from the Halo will be quite awful for Sortie rescue missions. This change does not open modding and/or Arcane avenues. Arcane Pulse will not see any real use as Guardian and Energize are already being used. While I understand more options are nice, Equilibrium will most definitely be worthless here. Health orbs are a niche that really only function for Nekros. Oberon and Well of Life Trinity cannot even use health orbs effectively.

If you want to achieve synergy between abilities, do not force it on the player. Atlas is a clunky mess because of this trend. I would rather see Halo have 100% damage reduction. Nezha is a fast caster, not a healer. He is also not a tank. Halo was already worse than Iron Skin, and now it is further lowered in effectiveness. 

I completely agree with the above comments!
It's already unusual to see Tenno opt for the Nezha frame! Reducing resistance to frame damage will only make the choice to the Rhino even more natural !!!
From my experience decreasing the stamina of the Halo Warding will only increase the chance of abandoning one more warframe, for the Rhino and making the endgame more annoying to the veterans. Please do not do this to Nezha !!!

[Tali_Zorah]

On 2018-09-07 at 12:18 PM, Voltage said:

I like this change.

This change makes absolutely no sense and feels like forced synergy much like Atlas. Reducing the damage reduction from the Halo will be quite awful for Sortie rescue missions. This change does not open modding and/or Arcane avenues. Arcane Pulse will not see any real use as Guardian and Energize are already being used. While I understand more options are nice, Equilibrium will most definitely be worthless here. Health orbs are a niche that really only function for Nekros. Oberon and Well of Life Trinity cannot even use health orbs effectively.

If you want to achieve synergy between abilities, do not force it on the player. Atlas is a clunky mess because of this trend. I would rather see Halo have 100% damage reduction. Nezha is a fast caster, not a healer. He is also not a tank. Halo was already worse than Iron Skin, and now it is further lowered in effectiveness.

I really like most of your suggestions. But looking back through them several forum posts into the past it seems to me that despite the many upvotes and approval from the player-base here on the forums [DE] doesn't really listen to your suggestions. 

Now for this particular post I'm not sure I agree with your opinion on warding halo. I haven't had much of an issue in the one sortie rescue that has come up sense this change. (1 does not a sample size make but still)

But your statement on the toll booth-- err. I mean the reconstruction event I thought was an awesome idea and a super valid point. But I feel like it was ignored. Am I missing something somewhere? Do you ever get a direct response from [DE]?

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, Tali_Zorah said:

I really like most of your suggestions. But looking back through them several forum posts into the past it seems to me that despite the many upvotes and approval from the player-base here on the forums [DE] doesn't really listen to your suggestions. 

Now for this particular post I'm not sure I agree with your opinion on warding halo. I haven't had much of an issue in the one sortie rescue that has come up sense this change. (1 does not a sample size make but still)

But your statement on the toll booth-- err. I mean the reconstruction event I thought was an awesome idea and a super valid point. But I feel like it was ignored. Am I missing something somewhere? Do you ever get a direct response from [DE]?

I am just an enthusiastic player who enjoys sharing an opinion on the forums. I do not get any responses from Digital Extremes. I did speak to Rebecca (and others) at Tennocon, but my suggestions and opinions don't really do much. I am just like everyone else. 🙂

On the topic of Warding Halo, after using it, I really don't feel it is that great with 90% DR. The UI is nice though. My only suggestion to Nezha now is to allow Firewalker to give movement speed based on Power Strength, not a constant of 25%.

[Tali_Zorah]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

I am just an enthusiastic player who enjoys sharing an opinion on the forums. I do not get any responses from Digital Extremes. I did speak to Rebecca (and others) at Tennocon, but my suggestions and opinions don't really do much. I am just like everyone else. 🙂

On the topic of Warding Halo, after using it, I really don't feel it is that great with 90% DR. The UI is nice though. My only suggestion to Nezha now is to allow Firewalker to give movement speed based on Power Strength, not a constant of 25%.

Wow. You have my respect. I've fallen in love with this game (played for 5 hours back in 2013 and just really didn't get into it.) Gave the game another try this past July and according to Steam I now have about 473 hours into the game lol. But I don't know if I could consistently do what you do here. I'm appreciative that you do this as it makes me feel, validated? that someone on here who's been around far longer than I has some of the same opinions as I do. But to have no appreciable effect for your efforts beyond the random person that decides to respond positively to you instead of leaving just an up-vote or like...

I don't think I could do that for very long before becoming jaded, you know? 

Thanks for replying.

Tali Zorah vas Normandy

[(PSN)Vexx757]

As you can see DE didn't listen to our feedback and instead released nezha exactly how they planed him to be smdh.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

On 2018-09-16 at 1:43 PM, LSG501 said:

2 - Actually if the ability requires contact with an enemy to do it's function then yes I do.  The Ash bladestorm rework has shown how it can work, if the marked target isn't attacked in bladestorm due to it no longer being there due to it's death etc then the ability cost is refunded. 

 

Ash's bladestorm and Nezha's chakram is fundamentally different. Bladestorm works on a marking system, obviously, if the marked enemy disappears it isn't consumed thus energy refunded. It would make more sense if you compared it to an actual projectile ability and not an ability that works completely different. But none of those projectile abilities refund energy if you miss now do they 🤔 . 

On 2018-09-16 at 1:43 PM, LSG501 said:

 Yeah you've just proven my point about how we could lower the amount of health dropping, as you say EVERY enemy drops health, if you need that much health you're doing something wrong...  Now I'm not suggesting going 50/50 but taking it down by 10-20% on health and increasing energy by the same would, imo, be a better balance.

2

No, what I said is, every enemy drops one health orb, considering that the gimmick of chakram is supposed to be a healing support and not an energy support since it was added to support using chakram more. But you're basing the need for higher energy drops on a problem with chakram tracking from what I'm reading. 

And again, Equilibrium is fine. The point of the mod is to take health orbs and provide energy. What is there to change? All you can do is increase the energy converted which won't happen. All Pablo did to Health conversion was add a 3-second delay to lose one stack, the core mechanic didn't change in the slightest.

On 2018-09-16 at 1:43 PM, LSG501 said:

 4 - Yet some of us do have the issue with teleporting when you don't want to (I'm not the only one either), obviously I must be playing him a little different to you or my build is different and shows the issues more easily than yours.  You've also just supported me in what I said the issue is when it comes to 'visually' seeing chakram is there or not.  The easiest solution (maybe not in the code though) is a 'toggle' switch, not an augment because that's wasting a slot to fix a usability issue, where we can select teleport on charge or teleport on any throw. 

Idk if we play him differently or not and pressing 2 has nothing to do with our build. I didn't support you in what you said. I said that trying to look for a fast flying glowing chakram in the chaos of enemies and expecting to track it is futile, especially if you have a bunch of effects going on that makes the chaos worse. Makes no sense to even try unless you have a bunch of enemies right in front of you and you can see the chakram hitting them with your camera directly on them otherwise just listen for the audio if you can't keep track of it visibly. There's an icon on the minimap, and there's an icon when the chakram is out of bounds on your screen and I wear Nezha's deluxe with the syandana too and I have no problem seeing when there's a ring on my back. So really and truly I don't understand how you (and others) can not know when the chakram returns when you can 1. Look on your back or 2. Listen for the audio of it flying through the air. 

13 hours ago, (XB1)a0moura said:

It's already unusual to see Tenno opt for the Nezha frame! Reducing resistance to frame damage will only make the choice to the Rhino even more natural !!!
From my experience decreasing the stamina of the Halo Warding will only increase the chance of abandoning one more warframe, for the Rhino and making the endgame more annoying to the veterans. Please do not do this to Nezha !!!

Every other player that doesn't run iron skin rhino in high levels, and already tried nezha for hour survivals on mot would like to have a word with you. Or even the players of frames that have 90 - 95% dmg reduction. Hell Saryn doesn't have dmg reduction and she's still a top pick (mainly cuz of her damage but still). A 10% decrease in invulnerability isn't going to kill the frame and the amount of nezha's that has increased says otherwise.

 

[LSG501]

18 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

snip

In all honesty that just reads like you're deliberately just going 'opposite' to those who see the issues or trying to 'white knight' because DE never release a rework without any issues...

You're also wrong about the changes to health conversion, it has been changed to only lose a stack on health damage, that 3 second duration has always been there, it's almost like you don't understand what you're trying to argue over... oh wait that seems to be the case with a lot of those other replys to quotes too...

[pabiring]

Thats what you get for speaking too soon m8, get rekt. anyway.

Great Rework [DE]Pablo and team!
from the toggle to duration change of fire walker, the amplifying blazing chakram, the savior warding halo(now can use arc avenger, rage mod which rhino can't manage), the divine spears which spawns an additional chakram. these are nice.

| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) Oh and i almost forgot his manly deluxe skin is much better compared to the vanilla, now people will forget the "nezha is a trap" joke.

Tho i have 1 concern, it's about Pyroclastic Flow, you see, when your firewalker runs out, you have no choice but to throw those stockpiled dmg for you to recast your firewalker.
as this dude and i have agreed with, can we add this function to PyroFlow?

14 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Maybe something like a manual deactivation by a hold function? Because the tap is always going to be the 'refresh duration' button, so with Pyroclastic Flow, maybe the answer is to simply shift how you activate the function it gives you.

With that said, then the un-intentional casting by ability ending then becomes more of the 'risk/reward' part. If you don't remember to refresh, then you're wasting that damage before you can activate it ^^

 

And another slight concern, it's about his passive, can we think of another passive for him?
Right now i'm thinking 2 instances which powerslide is beneficial:
           *Doing a riven which requires a hobbled key
           *And The Sleds Of Sunshine :p
 

[(XBOX)a0moura]

On 2018-09-17 at 9:05 PM, ShadowExodus said:

Every other player that doesn't run iron skin rhino in high levels, and already tried nezha for hour survivals on mot would like to have a word with you. Or even the players of frames that have 90 - 95% dmg reduction. Hell Saryn doesn't have dmg reduction and she's still a top pick (mainly cuz of her damage but still). A 10% decrease in invulnerability isn't going to kill the frame and the amount of nezha's that has increased says otherwise. 

 

Good point... but the choice of a warframe is made according to the tenno strategy (individual or team)! The basic strategy I use in Nezha is defense against damage (by the way, the description of the warframe say: "Nezha... insure himself from damage"). And from this support team members ... With these 10% reduction means that damage over 6000 can be deadly!. I think the discussion is about maintaining the fundamental features of Nezha, with 100% Halo. Anything other than that changes the essential Nezha frame !!

[(XBOX)Kittinfiniti]

😍 I cannot wait! Want, want, want! The Skin and rework look soo good!

 

[csaszar]

Please consider to change reaping chakram that its bonus would effect energy orb drop chance instead of healing orbs. Or increase at least to 50% the energy orb droprate.

A bit more constant energy orb rate would maybe bolster the variety of Nezha builds.

And the chakram hit or miss mechanic should be looked on asap. Right now it almost invalidates the use.

[(XBOX)Bittertoe]

This is crap. Reduce Warding Halo to 90% and Shields by 75?  With, Oh Boy wait for it....., a 150 health boost. You took a Glass Canon and made her glassier!  How about you guys focus more on content, less on reworking working frames and knock it off with all the Operator garbage? Speaking of which, I play to play my frames not some whimpy teenager that can't even jump! Your ability to make this game a hassle to play is astounding!