Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

[(XB1)COA Altair 586]

21 minutes ago, Voltage said:

No. Do not make this change. You may as well nerf Iron Skin with a change like this. It does not make sense at all. Nezha will never be a tank. He is a quick Warframe that needs the 100% damage reduction. It seems that Warding Halo will become a slightly better Bless for only Nezha. 

90% is fine.  Mesa functions with 95% damage reduction bullet wise with her shatter shield and has one of the highest effective hit points in the game if you build her correctly.  On top of that the rest of the kit was changed to support 90% reduction change quite well.  Barely anyone used nezha, these changes should make nezha more viable.  

[Mahonri1830 2]

Will Firewaller be a refreshable ability?

[Zeyez 1,263]

24 minutes ago, Voltage said:

No. Do not make this change. You may as well nerf Iron Skin with a change like this. It does not make sense at all. Nezha will never be a tank. He is a quick Warframe that needs the 100% damage reduction. It seems that Warding Halo will become a slightly better Bless for only Nezha. 

do you know that he has an augment that allows apply his shield on allies, specters, sentinels... isn't?

i agree about nezha shouldnt be too tanky.. but this damage reduction is limited and he can't recast it while active... at least it still can be overwhelmed quite early

Edited September 7, 2018 by Zeyez

[Omega-Shadowblade 9,125]

Just now, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

stat stick?

the method of using a weapon built a specific way only for the purpose of buffing an abilitiy i.e. Exalted blade and Valkyr talons before they were separately modded.

[SortaRandom 13,993]

45 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

• Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken. Will still block status effects and other procs.
  With 90% damage resistance, Nezha is still very capable of tanking, but encouraged to rely on his other tools to avoid getting overwhelmed. Taking minimal health damage allows for synergy with Blazing Chakram’s health orbs, not to mention new modding avenues like ... Health Conversion

 

One concern-- If Nezha is able to take damage, then Health Conversion's armor buff will be deleted almost the instant he gets it, even while Warding Halo is active.

The whole point of Health Conversion on Nezha will be to make the next cast of Warding Halo more powerful... but, unlike Iron Shrapnel Rhino, Nezha doesn't get to choose when he recasts it since he doesn't have a "cancel" button.
The only way for Nezha to make full use of Health Conversion is to pick up orbs the instant WH depletes to zero, and recast it before taking damage. That's about it, though.

It's DEFINITELY an improvement to our current system (since Nezha won't need to take damage with WH off in order to use HC), but the main issue is still there-- you only have a tiny window to properly activate it, and whether you take damage during that window is often beyond your control.

 

I think Nezha could use an augment that allows him to destroy and recast WH, just like Iron Shrapnel on Rhino. Or maybe allow default Nezha to rapidly deplete his own WH health by holding 3 or something.

Edited September 7, 2018 by SortaRandom

[Nation_X 721]

Im liking this. Look forward to trying it out

[Zhaeph 56]

I like this update on Nezha but when is going to be the nerf on Rhino's Iron Skin ?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Zhaeph

[(PS4)The_Verethragna 536]

My initial concern is how the Firewalker change from Channeling to Duration will impact the Augment.

As is, you cast Firewalker, you build up as much charge as you like, and you deactivate the ability to deal all the charged damage to an enemy/group of enemies that really deserve it.

By making it Duration-based, you have less opportunity to charge the necessary amount of damage to kill something and the ability can end and make you waste the charged damage when there's nothing around to use it on.

[TGDM 1,389]

With the changes to #2 providing Energy Orbs (or having a chance to at least), I think it would be safe to leave #1 as a channel/toggle rather than duration-based. It looks like it would be the only ability in his kit which would really need +Duration mods (#4 is rarely used for meaningful CC in my experience), though ultimately not a large concern because it has a very low energy cost to recast frequently.

I'm a bit skeptical of how these changes will play out overall because there are still directly superior versions of these skills on other warframes. Not every frame has to be "the best" and the bar set to successfully clear out all content, even Sortie level, is pretty low. I think Nezha will be fine, but still not really an ideal pick for most situations. Not a niche frame, but a fun one.

These are great utility changes overall, and the reasoning behind them helps with understanding the context of these changes. I hope more frames gain the "chance to drop Energy Orb" utility in the future!

[Xerenova 426]

Just now, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

stat stick?

A weapon sole purpose is to buff an "exalted" weapon.

[(XB1)EternalDrk Mako 9,045]

1 minute ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

the method of using a weapon built a specific way only for the purpose of buffing an abilitiy i.e. Exalted blade and Valkyr talons before they were separately modded.

ah 

never played that way myself but dedicated load-out to the exalted powers buff

[kaelvamp 171]

god bless pablo the great savior of frames, master of reworks and tweaks, and TY DE and the rest of the team that helped making this possible ❤️ bless you all ❤️ 

[Sea_Wall 864]

Buff Divine Spears. Make them do True DMG. 

[Luccin 22]

I wanna start of with saying that most of the changes looks really good.

BUT 

Making firewalls a duration based ability will heavily impact people who use the augment since you can't stack the damage as much or at worst you will be force cast into the augment whenever the duration runs out.

[V4Vlad 110]

ALL HAIL PABLO

[(XB1)EternalDrk Mako 9,045]

1 minute ago, -Icicles- said:

A weapon sole purpose is to buff an "exalted" weapon.

*shrugs*

we all have our own way of playing , either that or chakram should have a be slot to be modded by itself 

[sky_blight 10]

My only real issue is with the Devine spear ability. Half the damage comes from the end slam. With removing that slam will it only do 50% damage now unless we manually slam?

[spirit_of_76 341]

27 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

[DE]Pablo

ok he will be good

27 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Increasing Nezha’s power overall by giving him added team support value

so like harrow a hard carry

38 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Hitting a speared enemy with Blazing Chakram produces a second Chakram, which fires at a nearby enemy.

this my friends is how an atom bomb works

overall, I don't think he will be a another saryn, nidus, or Harrow but he will be more like If Gara and Oberon had a kid

[(XB1)RogueTenno 40]

Looks great good work pablo please do wukong next he needs some love too!

[Vali 3,055]

I like the changes so far!

I personally think there should be a method to refresh or gain some Warding Halo absorption through the use of abilities, such as kills on Divine Spear or killing marked enemies from Blazing Chakram etc.

Reasoning:

Rhino is capable of gaining Iron Skin stacks from Ironclad Charge and Gara's Splinter Storm is duration based. Since Warding Halo is pretty much a health based Splinter Storm, it lacks the scaling power of a duration based ability and would likely get shredded fast in high level content.

Also how will Pyroclastic Flow and Reaping Chakram work now?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Vali

[Synpai 2,111]

I knew it was @[DE]Pablo as soon as I started reading it. 

"Wait...this sounds good....am I....becoming a Nezha main!?"

 

[(XB1)DeluxeKnight831 1,644]

Ok im a huge nezha main and yesterday i drafted a prposed rework and i swear to god pablo read my mind (not completely but i wrote down some of these changes) holy S#&$ im happy as #*!% 

[(XB1)Umbrahowl 90]

I love this rework and just like rhino iron skin 

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl 2,567]

I honestly don't mind a return to duration based instead of toggle. Sure toggle is more energy efficient in the long run in most cases, but that's assuming you don't use any of the energy restoration methods that toggles prevent from working.

Perhaps we could have choice in that department since each case is better in it's own situations (toggle for more modding freedom with less casts, non-toggle for energy restoration), but if the duration is good then I don't mind it as it will allow me to get more energy to spend on other abilities, well, that is IF Chakram works well now.

On Chakram, sounds nicechance for energy and always gives health drop, nice. Yeah, health drops might not be as good as how much it heals now, but at least it gives a chance for everyone to pick them, and again if the homing actually works then it sounds like it might work fine, not a proper healer but allows Nezha to mod in different ways.

Which brings to Halo only giving 90%, sounds fine to me AGAIN if they make sure Chakram works, more importantly it needs to work properly as a client, 90% + status prevention + melee range stuns is fine, it also allows for stuff like arcanes to work (can proc guardian just before recasting while Halo is active rather than being hit on purpose without halo to activate it for example), the problem might be that up until late game and even then it might require people to stop killing for max effectiveness, the cost of the Halo might be too much compared to things like Gara which give a set time which most likely outlive Halo nearly every time and the only way to extend that is by not being hit.

Gara's 2 costs less and is more versatile, allowing to be put on team mates and on enemies for increased damage against them, and can be rigged to insta kill anything that gets close. Only advantage of Nezha's is that it will prevent status procs and stun things that get close (Gara needs to rig hers with a different power to kill enemies, it's not innate past low level).

4 isn't as cumbersome, not that it needed much and they changed what needed to be changed (the slam animation), maybe the ground finisher trigger could be improved though. Second Chakram from hits on impaled enemies sounds like a nice Synergy to spread the drops increase and damage increase.

To also note it would be fine if some of the changes were carried to Rhino, like the big indicator, that's a nice thing to have when you rely on the skin so much.

[(XB1)Umbrahowl 90]

Agree