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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

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As an avid support player, I am very interested in these changes. When I first played Nezha, I thought the healing would be a little more substantial, and as was mentioned, it did not really benefit other players because of the small range. This turned out to be a huge disappointment to me, honestly. That left the damage immunity from Warding Halo, and the status clearing function of Fire Walker, both very potent. With that said, I would like to ask a few things. Some may not be able to be answered because of reasons, but I would like to throw them out there anyway.

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Enemies hit by the disc are “marked” for a moddable duration, greatly increasing the damage they take from all sources. Marked enemies have a chance to drop energy orbs.

To clarify, the "marked" enemies will have a chance to drop the energy orbs when damaged from any source? Will the drop chance be changed with mods like Mag's Pull? I know that is not quite the same, but it is as good a comparison as any.

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Killing enemies while they are marked will now produce healing orbs, instead of the current healing pulse.

I do like the orb idea, but I am concerned about the health pools in general. I know for me, Vitality is on 98% of builds, and a single health orb does not do a whole lot for that (generally ends up being around 700hp or so). Would that be considered at all?

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Increased the number of targets the disc will try to hit before recalling

Is this number set? As in, is there a chance for this number to be changed by mods? I am imagining that the idea is to throw the Chakram into a crowd and see the debuffs propagate. That may be a little too powerful given the other changes, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

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Added a charged throw, causing the Chakram to fly straight forwards and backwards, dealing extra damage to enemies in its path.

This means that the recently added augment mod will be changed? (My wishful thinking is that it addresses previously mentioned concerns of health orb quantity and number of bounces.)

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Warding Halo

Just a clarifying point here. It is not specifically mentioned in the notes and the .gif does not really show it, but I would assume this ability still restricts movement like it does currently?

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Hitting a speared enemy with Blazing Chakram produces a second Chakram, which fires at a nearby enemy.

The split will only occur once, I assume? I can just see a bunch of chakrams being spawned and just messing up FPS, but it would certainly be a sight to see. 

Overall, I really like the pacing changes and can't wait to try out everything.

Edited by NIkuno
Changed formatting. OCD.
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Immediate suggestion: make sure that Warding Halo's invincibility damage absorbing phase overwrites Halo's expiration invincibility, because otherwise you'll block the damage absorption phase.

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1 minute ago, Sorenxoras said:

Mmmm, this sounds pretty nice overall. Probably gonna get nerfed soon after the rework though. People are gonna play him, think his new kit makes him super playable, then DE is gonna see this and slam the nerfing hammer down on it.

The whole point of this rework is to pretty much make people like him more, which will also increase the chances of people wanting to buy his Deluxe skin too

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People complaining about 90% damage blocking are forgetting about how Gara gets 90% and Mesa gets 95% at max Power Strength and they're basically invincible when this happen.

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46 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Changed from a channeling ability to duration-based.

I am slightly apprehensive on this. On one hand this change encourages more active use of his other abilities in being more manageable, yet it most likely will interfere with Pyroclastic Flow builds. I see this as a nerf to Pyroclastic Flow because, based on the given information only, not only will storing damage be more difficult but you can no longer release on demand. The only solution I can imagine at the moment for this is this: make Firewalker recastable, and allow manual activation of Pyroclastic Flow by holding the ability key. This would completely fix the upcoming issue. I also hope Firewalker has a high base duration to compensate for the change; it would be awful for the ability to last only 10 to 15 seconds base, even 20 seconds seems iffy, because the flames last 10 seconds base and you will be recasting incredibly often to keep your feet ignited.

55 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Enemies hit by the disc are “marked” for a moddable duration, greatly increasing the damage they take from all sources. Marked enemies have a chance to drop energy orbs

I see incredible potential in this, assuming the damage multiplier is multiplicative like Roar and Faction mods, and the base multiplier itself is high. How would the energy orb drop work, on kill or when damaged?

57 minutes ago, [DE]Connor said:

Killing enemies while they are marked will now produce healing orbs, instead of the current healing pulse.

  • Why? The current radial heal is invisible and very small, usually only benefitting players in melee range - most players don’t even know it’s there! Health orbs make the result more visible, while introducing other mod synergies.

 

I think this is a terrible solution to Blazing Chakram's issue with healing. Its base radius is 8 meters from the enemy, which is indeed rather small, but it also healed 225 health at base. You're trading a substantial heal for a much smaller, server side heal pick up. Only Nekros can pull something like this off because Desecrate passively rewards a player's natural behavior in missions. Oberon, Trinity w/ augment, and now Nezha pale in comparison to Nekros because you will spend a lot of energy and effort for so few health orbs, and it will be tedious enough that players will stop caring. This also actively interferes with Reaping Chakram's healing aspect. Instead, you should keep the old function and change it up while also keeping this orb drop function. Double the radius of the wave, and to synergize with Warding Halo have it resonate once from any active instances of Warding Halo in range while allowing it to spread between all players w/ active Halos. Think the Shockwave weapon from Shellshock; The initial shockwave is released, and then anything in range will ping off a new shockwave, which continues to spread to anything in range.

1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken. Will still block status effects and other procs. 

  • Increased incoming damage multiplier during invulnerability. Damage absorption multiplier also now scales with power strength.
  • When the health of the Warding Halo runs out, it will do an AoE heat status effect and give you a short period of invulnerability.

This is an interesting change. I and many other people here can see the potential of this. Of course, I can only hope the AoE blast has a significant enough radius not bound to LoS. Also, I would like to suggest also making these changes on top:

  • If Nezha were to take lethal damage at any moment, all damage is absorbed by the Warding Halo with any leftover damage it could not absorb then being dealt to Nezha. This is to prevent Nezha from actually dying while the Halo is up, since that is supposed to be the Halo's job. Otherwise you might as well make it a copy of Gara's Splinter Storm.
  • Allow Blazing Chakram, and optionally other sources of health restoration, to replenish the damage absorption of the Warding Halo. This is especially important since it is now only absorbing 90% of incoming damage, having a form of restoration to prevent it from decaying would keep recasting to a minimum while also putting more importance in Nezha's healing abilities.
  • Bake Safeguard's effect into the base ability and give it a new augment function. Optional, but still a fair idea especially with the damage absorption changes. One possible replacement idea is "Rebuking Halo: Warding Halo has a X% chance to nullify an instance of damage and reflect it back at the attacker at XXX% strength." Another suggestion regarding Safeguard would be to increase its effect to full effectiveness instead of 50%.
1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:
  • Sped up the casting/slamming animations, while removing the mandatory slam at the end of the Spears’ duration. (slam can still be triggered manually)
  • Hitting a speared enemy with Blazing Chakram produces a second Chakram, which fires at a nearby enemy.

Oh that sounds very nice. I assume you removed the forced slam animation instead of the slam damage aspect of the spears. Could you increase the base range from 19m to an even 20m, or even consider going to 25m?  And is there anything that can be done regarding the interaction with Ancient Healers/Corrupted Ancients redirecting spears to itself away from enemies in its aura radius?

 

Overall, I'm quite looking forward to Nezha now. This was definitely a good reason for the delay of his release, though in retrospect I do feel update 23.7.0 should have been delayed so Nezha would have released with the augments simultaneously.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

When the health of the Warding Halo runs out, it will do an AoE heat status effect and give you a short period of invulnerability.

If only shield can work like this. 👀

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@[DE]Connor

Are there any plans to improve healing provided by health orbs? Currently they can't compete with other healing methods, even if they drop in bulk. I think it would be better to change them to restore a percentage of health rather than a flat amount.

I think it would be better if instead of dropping health orbs Blazing Chakram could create a stationary healing beacon, similar to the consumable health restores. More efficient than healing orbs and also visible.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Connor said:

Marked enemies have a chance to drop energy orbs.

uH

how high of a chance are we talking here

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subsequent suggestion: make sure that the split chakrams don't also duplicate nezha if you use teleport while it's out

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Fire Walker:

First; will this new change add a damage increase to the Burn Status of the ability? I know Blazing Chakram new fix is suppose to do that, but currently I sit at 309% Strength with 618 Damage / s, but the Burn Status only gives half of that damage, so i'm doing 306 or 145 and the damage reduces per level increase of the mob(s). This also happens to Mobs that are effected by Burn Status. That is a big problem with his first ability. It seems misleading in terms of damage. Will the damage be re looked at and somehow have similar fixes to how Nidus and Oberon 1st ability scale? Changing from Channel to Duration may bring synergy to the other new fixes, but it doesn't fix the internal problem which is the overall damage. Remember what help increase his damage was/is his augment.

Second; how will this effect his augment? In order for Nezha's 1st to do a lot of damage, the augment requires mobs to be inside or hit by Fire Walker for damage % increase and at anytime he can release that stored power. With this new fix, you cannot store that power at a certain % you want. It feels as though you will be forced to use, per Duration, whatever % damage you have stored, which could effect the damage output.

Third; many, including myself, wanted this ability's width increased. Nidus is able to clear a whole doorway where as Nezha has to make two lines in order for that to work. Will we see some type of width increase? 

Blazing Chakram:
It seems this ability will be the focal point to Nezhas damage output. Adding Duration is needed for the "greatly" increasing damage. Once again, how much "greatly" increasing damage is he really getting; 2%, 3%, 3.6%? I think this will help those who play Nezha get a better understanding of the damage increase considering the Frame suppose to have immense power, but really doesn't without the Fire Walker augment. Also, will the augment remain the same and will the Chakram hit 4-5 mobs and return to Nezha? Adding duration should let the ability continue to hit targets until the duration expire. This will be less effective on group mobs if he is limited to how many mobs are hit. Also, as mentioned above, will the Burn Status be cut in half as the current Fire Walker ability damage or will there even be some type of Burn Status and duration of it? Can we get more information on this?

I like the charge ability, however, once again, how much extra damage are we looking at? Hydroid charges do 200% increase damage to his 1st and 2nd ability, though it doesn't really scale, from what I've seen. Will this just increase the charge damage,and will that damage too fall off when mob's level increase? 

Warding Halo:
I like the new HUD for this ability, but there is a bug that doesn't show the shield taking damage from a player. Will this be looked into and monitored? MODs will be taken out and added in for survivability over others such as Duration, Ability Strength, Range, and Efficiency. This scares me because I'm afraid his abilities will lack the damage that it does now, but it adds more survivability. Plus what we are seeing in this gif(s) is how this ability is working on low level mobs. We don't see/have data on Warding Halo again'st mobs 100+. So, I'm VERY skeptical. However, we are able to use the Rage mod for energy regeneration with this new fix. I would have to see how this ability works with Kuva, sorite, and other level Mobs. One more thing, how will armor, ability strength and Health Mods work with this new fix and the augment for group play.

Divind Spears:
I like what is done to Divine Spears. I wish there would be a Graphic effect increase or design for the spears, but taking out the end slam helps a lot. That was one of the reasons why I never used it. Could you add Burn Status to mobs effected by these spears?

Overall, I'm somewhat pleased with the synergy, but skeptical with the damage and its scaling as well as Warding Halo. I also think Nezha should get 75-100 increased energy. 

Edited by Mardomus

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1 minute ago, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

i would think maybe 20%

20% sounds fair

you think hes gonna let us increase it with ability power?

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Also I love how Warding Halo's new AoE effect and invincibility when it runs out is basically shield gating. I thought that you guys said that wasn't possible ? 🤔

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Considering Splinter Storm gives 90% DR with infinite health and can be cast on teammates with no augment maybe bake in the Safeguard augment and rework Safeguard to make Warding Halo function like legacy Warding Halo (100% DMG blocked)? 

Warding Halo went from a bad Iron Skin to a bad Splinter Storm.

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Sounds like a solid rework, which makes me question how on earth anyone at DE released Reverant (and "fixed" him, causing him to go from bad to worse) in the state he's currently in. You're clearly capable of making excellent frames with solid abilities...

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Just now, Cibyllae said:

20% sounds fair

you think hes gonna let us increase it with ability power?

its low enough that it would seems fine too, but high enough to stick with (as a dev stand point may see it)

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People are telling me that Nezha has no reliable form of self damage, and somebody suggested making firewalker cause health damage to nezha, but I'm suggesting that Nezha's shields rupture when he uses the chakram teleport, like Valkyr's does when she uses Paralysis.

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1 minute ago, ChipsLight said:

Also I love how Warding Halo's new AoE effect and invincibility when it runs out is basically shield gating. I thought that you guys said that wasn't possible ? 🤔

its basically an upgraded chroma vex augments

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb [DE]Connor:

As a channeled ability, keeping Firewalker active would block all energy regeneration. Making the ability a single cast with a long moddable duration solves that problem, encouraging more frequent use.

I seriously don't know why the regeneration block is still a thing. Everything this does is to block the flow of the game.

If one were to use Energy Siphon to reduce the energy cost from Excaliburs Exalted Blade, that player would sacrifice +60% Melee Damage from Steel Charge. Then there are just a few other actions to get yourself to regenerate energy which are blocked:

  • Warframe abilities (Trinity, Harrow): Might be randomly in your squad or a premade group.
  • Energy Pads: Locked behind resources which need to be farmed when used too much.
  • Focus: Does need time to unlock.
  • Arcane Energize (which I don't know if it's actually blocked): To get a higher ranked Arcane a player needs to hunt quite a few Eidolons.

Energy Pads, Focus and Arcanes all require us to spend time on unlocking them, just to be blocked by certain Warframe abilities, they are just content locked by our choice of frame.

 

Other than that: As a non Nezha player, the workshop looks great!

Edited by Voldjaw
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