So will duel wielding one handed melee and one handed secondary come with melee 3.0?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just curious what the status is with that mode... I'm assuming it will come with melee 3.0? 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Such as Lex and Vasto. Or Magnus and Euphona. And No melee.  I think that would be fun, with no more added power creep than what we have currently.

I believe it would give us more options when duel wielding. 

Thank you

Edited September 9, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82
Edit for a little more clarity

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

with no more added power creep than what we have currently

Just access to every combined element and at range. This is absolutely power creep.

[TinFoilMkIV]

Perhaps more important than the power creep potential, is how would this even work mechanically? Seems like unless the two weapons were very similar it would be very awkward and probably require some unusual controls/calculations to even make it work.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

This is absolutely power creep

Well Peter I disagree. 

What difference does it make wether I'm killing things with two Lex Primes or a Vasto Prime and Euphona Prime? Either way I'm still killing things in a few shots. 

1 hour ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

how would this even work mechanically

Would work just fine. Considering all one handed secondary weapons were given one handed reload animations since we could equip a throwing melee and a one handed secondary. 

[peterc3]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

What difference does it make wether I'm killing things with two Lex Primes or a Vasto Prime and Euphona Prime? Either way I'm still killing things in a few shots.

I'm talking the things that don't just die to single shots. Your ignorance of what your idea entails is not going to make the idea any more palatable to DE.

They aren't going to let you have access to every combined element at max range. That's just silly and is power creep whether you believe it or not.

[Minatos_Gordem]

3 hours ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

Perhaps more important than the power creep potential, is how would this even work mechanically? Seems like unless the two weapons were very similar it would be very awkward and probably require some unusual controls/calculations to even make it work.

My concern as well aside from how absurdly OP we'd become. Automatic, semi, duplex, and charged secondaries would all have a hard time mixing. Also if you mix two secondaries with alternate fires which one gets to go off? Both? And if you pick two charged/semi-auto secondaries with drastically different fire rate do you have to wait for one to fire to be able to fire the other one again? It just seems to make things complicated.

[TinFoilMkIV]

1 hour ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Would work just fine. Considering all one handed secondary weapons were given one handed reload animations since we could equip a throwing melee and a one handed secondary. 

That's talking about presentation and animations, not the mechanics of how it would function game play wise. The only weapons I could see this even feeling okay with would be automatic secondaries. Anything else would require unique coding for fire rate and fire controls even if the weapons are functionally similar.

For example. If I equip a Zylok in one hand and a Viper in the other, what happens when I click my mouse button and hold it?
Also how would this not invalidate the existence of dual-wield variants of existing single weapons?
It's an interesting idea, but to me it sounds like it would be incredibly messy and not actually offer all that much of practical value.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Probably not. Melee 4.0 though oh definitely 

[trst]

Pretty sure in one of the last Devstreams where they showcased the progress of 3.0 they said it is in 3.0 or at least that it's getting expanded upon.

[(XBOX)ZeepySea]

I can already do that? I'm able to hold my pistol and my glaive at same time. right trigger will fire my gun etc, and B button will handle my glaive. 

 

[Firetempest]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ZeepySea said:

I can already do that? I'm able to hold my pistol and my glaive at same time. right trigger will fire my gun etc, and B button will handle my glaive. 

 

Yes, but all one handed weapons. Glaives were just eaiser to implement.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 hours ago, peterc3 said:

They aren't going to let you have access to every combined element at max range.

We already more or less do. I can mod my Glaive Prime for viral and my Vasto Prime for Corrosive. 

2 hours ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

If I equip a Zylok in one hand and a Viper in the other, what happens when I click my mouse button and hold it?
Also how would this not invalidate the existence of dual-wield variants of existing single weapons?
It's an interesting idea, but to me it sounds like it would be incredibly messy and not actually offer all that much of practical value.

I think first DE would have to create all new arsenal UI to implement. Like something as simple as for example : instead of equipping Glaive and Vasto you could swap out your Glaive for Lex. And just not have a melee?

Edited September 9, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Minatos_Gordem said:

It just seems to make things complicated.

Yes you are over complicating it. Think simpler. Like how equipping Glaives and One handed secondaries work. And just have no melee and two one handed secondaries instead. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Rayden_Tenno]

I wholeheartly agree with this. As much combos as possible. Powercreep means S#&$ in this game. We’re already too much powerfuland i dont care. We’re meant to be one man army. And as such we should be.

[TinFoilMkIV]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Yes you are over complicating it. Think simpler. Like how equipping Glaives and One handed secondaries work. And just have no melee and two one handed secondaries instead. 

That works because each weapon in that case uses entirely different controls and their attacks cannot overlap. It was mostly a matter of creating the new attack animations. While you can fire while a glaive is still out and bouncing off enemies, you cannot fire while charging or swinging the glaive. If you're suggesting we can only fire one secondary at once and have to toggle between them, then that's basically asking to equip a secondary in your melee slot and have little/no swap time.

I think the idea is needlessly complicated and is asking for a lot of development work for something that doesn't entirely make sense. We only have one fire button, but two weapons with potentially entirely different fire rates and firing mechanics. I don't see the controls working nicely.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

49 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

I think first DE would have to create all new arsenal UI to implement. Like something as simple as for example : instead of equipping Glaive and Vasto you could swap out your Glaive for Lex. And just not have a melee?

Youre not answering the question : how would it look like when you dual wield a SLOW FIRE RATE gun and a RAPID FIRE gun at the same time, what the animation look like when you fire them both? What about guns that have secondary fire? How would you fire a sonicor and a castana at the same time? How would you fire a knell and a furis at the same time? How would you fire a Ballistica and a spectra at the same time? Describe what the animation look like... 

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Marvelous_A]

I'd prefer no primary instead of no melee

[TinFoilMkIV]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Youre not answering the question : how would it look like when you dual wield a SLOW FIRE RATE gun and a RAPID FIRE gun at the same time, what the animation look like when you fire them both? What about gubs that have secondary fire? How would you fire a sonicor and a castana at the same time? How would you fire a knell and a furis at the same time? Describe what the animation look like... 

I think it's more important to describe how the controls would work.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

4 minutes ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

I think it's more important to describe how the controls would work.

Yes, the animation too, its a complete MESS

I think op want to make it so we have to choose between dual wield secondary +melee OR secondary +secondary, so that means we gotta fire 1 gun at a time and 1 of the guns use melee control to fire it. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[TinFoilMkIV]

Supposedly they were aiming to have that be a feature of melee 3.0. We'll know more when they post the dev workshop about it.

[TinFoilMkIV]

Eh, the animations should be a relatively minor factor. Most of the weapons in question have usable animations, or ones that could work with relatively small adjustments. The graphical side of things, what we actually see, is a very small part of what goes into implementing something like this. The coding and mechanical concept is far far more important.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Yes, the animation too, its a complete MESS

I mean obviously there would have to be some improvisation. And clearly you could not run secondaries with alt fire that require scope or the use of another hand. Or the alt fire could just be disabled while duel welding..

Edited September 9, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Noibat]

Inb4 AkAtomos

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 hours ago, Noibat said:

Inb4 AkAtomos

I mean yeah. Hope u have dupes of every mod. I'd rather run Vasto Prime and Euphona Prime myself.

 

5 hours ago, TinFoilMkIV said:

I think it's more important to describe how the controls would work.

I agree. I'm not technically savy but equipping another secondary instead of a melee would have to give your right hand and left hand independent fire rates. So instead of melee you shoot.   I think I  explained that right... I think that would be the only way.  And I don't think that would invalidate the Ak series either because with the Ak variety you could still equip a melee. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82