Low armor frames

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, (XB1)PredakingXYT said:

1. It is, Frames like Volt, Mirage, Nova, Banshee, get 1-2 shot at mid-high lvl gameplay, so defensive mods are a waste, instead I remove those to make room for offensive ability mods, that way they kill the enemy before they get hit

I'd say this is more of a self fulfilling prophecy than anything else. Players hear that casters get oneshotted at high levels regardless of durability > Players don't give their frames any survivability enhancements > Players proceed to get oneshotted by attacks that wouldn't be fatal with durability mods > Return to Step 1.

[ThorienKELL]

Because  every frame is built around certain theme. They have strengths and weaknesses. Look at them as character class from other role playing games - warriors, mages, thieves, priests or damage, tank, support etc.

 

 

[(XBOX)PredakingXYT]

5 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I'd say this is more of a self fulfilling prophecy than anything else. Players hear that casters get oneshotted at high levels regardless of durability > Players don't give their frames any survivability enhancements > Players proceed to get oneshotted by attacks that wouldn't be fatal with durability mods > Return to Step 1.

Maybe, but I don't think you can argue that frames with low hp and armor were designed to excel in another category to make up for their low defenses. And that to mod for something a frame is bad at but not for what it is good at, will result in a mediocre frame build.

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, Noibat said:

Nova's first skill actually reduces damage by 5% for every orb that circles her,  up to 90% or so.  She's very survivable. 

It lasts like 4 seconds though

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Just give frames a base evasion rating inversely proportional to their armor rating.

[SneakyErvin]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)PredakingXYT said:

Maybe, but I don't think you can argue that frames with low hp and armor were designed to excel in another category to make up for their low defenses. And that to mod for something a frame is bad at but not for what it is good at, will result in a mediocre frame build.

Replacing a single mod for a survival mod doesnt make it a mediocre frame build. You will likely not notice the small offense you give up. It is also not sure it is offense you sacrifice, it might be a wee bit duration meaning you have to cast your ability 3 seconds earlier in the end, or some ranged mod requiring you to get 3 meters closer than previously.

And even if you think "but I'll get one shot either way due to low armor" well that is true, but the extra vitality lets you survive the attacks that arent 1HK's, it makes you much more durable vs DoTs that pass through shields and so on. And then depending on the frame you might last very long thanks to your buffs on an otherwise glass cannon frame. Just look at Mesa, she has a 95% DR shield. That means slapping vitality on her gives her alot of extra effective HP even though she has low armor. But then on someone like Rhino who relies on Iron Skin, vitality gives a very small boost to survival over stacking armor and strength mods.

In the end, every frame benefits greatly from vitality, not only to survive the big hits, but to also survive the increasing DoT status better the higher you get in the levels.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 hours ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

Can anyone explain to me why there are frames with 15 and 65 armor?

balance. Banshee's only real downside is her squishiness, otherwise she's an amazing damage buffer and can CC pretty well. Nova makes everything easier with her Ult, and her 2 can deal insane damage when paired with the right weapon. if they had tankiness on top of that, nobody would use the other frames as often.

that said, there are still plenty ways to increase your survivability. I find Magus Nourish to be a great help when using squishy frames: simply use transference and stay in operator's Void Mode for a little while and your Warframe will be fully healed. health pizzas or playing with someone using a healing frame like trinity or Oberon can also work wonders.

[FlyingDice]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

It lasts like 4 seconds though

Uh, no. It has infinite duration, only expiring/degrading when you get close enough for them to fire. Every normal Nova build except dedicated porters will dump range, leaving their attack range absurdly short (typically 4-6m). Likewise, you should be able to hit peak stats for slow/speedva (including Vitality) while still having a free mod slot, allowing you to take Neutron Star for manual refreshing of the 1.

[TARINunit9]

9 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

Uh, no. It has infinite duration, only expiring/degrading when you get close enough for them to fire

9 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

only expiring/degrading when you get close enough for them to fire

9 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

 when

9 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

when

Not "IF the enemies get close enough", but "WHEN the enemies get close enough". And the "when" is always. Literally every single second you are in combat, every single second you aren't spending in a Spy vault or waiting to extract

When it's 4 + X seconds and X is zero, I'm going to just say it's 4 seconds

Edited September 12, 2018 by TARINunit9

[Flames21891]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Not "IF the enemies get close enough", but "WHEN the enemies get close enough". And the "when" is always. Literally every single second you are in combat, every single second you aren't spending in a Spy vault or waiting to extract

When it's 4 + X seconds and X is zero, I'm going to just say it's 4 seconds

The orbs don't all fly out at once the second a Grineer comes to shake your hand, they depart one at a time every .7 seconds or so. If you constantly have enemies within spitting distance of you as Nova, you're doing something wrong. You should have the vast majority of enemies affected by Molecular Prime, which if you're not using a speed build (and you shouldn't be using a speed build on any content you can't absolutely crush anyways, which means you don't need the damage reduction from her 1 for that, making it a moot point) means they move at the speed of a rancid fart, and they shouldn't be able to get anywhere near you before going pop unless your situational awareness is simply terrible.

Sorry to say, but this sounds more like a PEBKAC issue than anything else. There's a reason Nova is considered a high-top tier frame by most veteran players.

[Sloan441]

9 hours ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

No I use a speed build,,,

That's why you're dying. 

Do NOT use a speed Nova unless you have teammates that can control your speed boosted enemies...and...they know what they're getting into. 

Otherwise, use conventional Nova builds. Speed builds aren't for new players (I'd argue they're not for any players) and certainly are not for PuGs. 

 

[TARINunit9]

34 minutes ago, Flames21891 said:

If you constantly have enemies within spitting distance of you as Nova, you're doing something wrong.

Lemme make my logic clear here: if you're far enough from the enemies that you're not losing your Null Star, the godawful AI isn't actually dealing any damage to you in the first place

34 minutes ago, Flames21891 said:

You should have the vast majority of enemies affected by Molecular Prime, which if you're not using a speed build (and you shouldn't be using a speed build on any content you can't absolutely crush anyways, which means you don't need the damage reduction from her 1 for that, making it a moot point) means they move at the speed of a rancid fart, and they shouldn't be able to get anywhere near you before going pop unless your situational awareness is simply terrible.

You think I don't have that on? My orbs still last maybe 7 seconds total, and only grant a buff worth using for 4 seconds, and here's why:

34 minutes ago, Flames21891 said:

The orbs don't all fly out at once the second a Grineer comes to shake your hand, they depart one at a time every .7 seconds or so.

A respectable 90% to start, but degrading by 5% every 0.7 seconds means you're down to a passable 60% within, oh guess what, 4 seconds. I chose that number for a reason. 4 more seconds, you're down to a pretty bad 30%, at which point either you're dead or the enemies are, which brings me to:

36 minutes ago, Flames21891 said:

There's a reason Nova is considered a high-top tier frame by most veteran players.

I never disputed this, she is still holding onto the god tier. But it mystifies me that people think that her Null Star is going to protect them from more than one Corrupted Bombard for more than 4 seconds. Your weapons multiplied by her M-Prime are what's going to protect you

[thegreatAce21]

Arcane Guardian my friend. It makes Banshee a tank, what more of the others?

[GnarlsDarkley]

9 hours ago, DarthBane1 said:

Usually what I do is I look at the armor, if it's below 100 I put on Redirection.

Don't. Just...don't do that. I can see a use on frames with DR skills but that's it.

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

-snip- to all what you said

Don't try to reason if you are not getting her. I did the Grineer Impact Sortie 3 Interception last time solo. Just use Null Star (14 orbs = 70% DR in my build on Page 1) and stay in the mid casting M-Prime. The enemies will getting slowed at their spawnpoint and also shoot veeeeeery slow once they did manage to come into the arena. And it took me 3 shots with a Supra vandal to kill them and no enemy could even get near me. I didn't even lose a single Null Star Orb in 9 minutes of mission time.

I have to say the same to you as to the OP. Learn her to play or leave her, but don't argue where's no hope if you are the cause of the problem

[Ada_Wong_SG]

14 hours ago, (PS4)MegaToxic said:

I want to try and not make this sound like a rant so please forgive me it is does. 

Can anyone explain to me why there are frames with 15 and 65 armor? For example Nova, she is a fun frame but my god she has no survivablity and it gets frustrating when squad mates have to keep reviving you because even though you have 700hp it goes down like you had none. Now I would mention Ivara but with her prowl it isn't that bad. But then you have Trinity and Nyx with 15 armor which is crazy. Personally I feel armor for frames should be a minimum of 100. 

 

  Again I am sorry if this sounds like a rant but it has been on my mind ever since I got back into Warframe 3 months ago. 

Nova's first ability is mini-sentinel, this serves as her protection to kill enemies, unfortunately
unless you are actively casting abilities chances are hordes of enemies would overrun your position, 

Then again her Molecular Prime + Anti Matter Drop, you pair this off with a Tigris Prime or any weapon that output ridiculous single shot damage into the orb.
You are literally a "Mobile Nuke" with Nova.

Nyx's main defensive capability is Abrosb, that is if you are failing at Mind Control and Chaos that causes
enemies to be occupied with fighting each others instead of shooting at you.

Absorb is both defense and offense capabilities, you are practically invincible while it is active, and you nuke the whole
place when releasing it.


Ivara, it would be better using her for stealth,
since you cannot be seen with Invisible arrow or Prowl mode, you don't need to be tanking damage,
again you will need to be very careful namely the Nulifier, since alerting nulifier will activate the bubble
that would bust your concealment and give away your location to enemies, then again you can put them to sleep when they are alerted.

Trinity, armor is a joke on her, 
Link which is 75% damage reduction is close to 850 armor
Blessing that is 50% damage reduction is 300 armor

Link + Blessing (blessing reduces 50% of 25%) will give 87.5% damage reduction will equal to 1500 armor

Her damage reduction applies to shield.
Now we are not even talking about blessing build that give 75% damage reduction for blessing
and overall 93.75% damage reduction equal to over 3000 armor.

Better still Blessing will restore most of your HP and Shield and it being recastable while buff is active.


 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ada_Wong_SG

[lolmetimbers]

Just focusing on Nova here, she is actually one of the tankiest frames in the game when built right.

Of course this requires maxed mods and lots of forma. Although Arcanes aren't the cheapest solution, when you add in Arcane Guardian and Arcane Grace she can tank a crazy amount of damage along with her damage and CC potential. Really one of the most well designed frames (Go community :D)

[XzWasPzX]

Nova doesnt need armor, using her 1 and 4... 

 

Do you still need armor? Arcane Guardian is what you re looking for.

[XzWasPzX]

The more i play, the more i like Nova, honestly...

[mikami666134]

Antimatter Absorb.

That thing is OP.

[mikami666134]

Also i share the opinion that low armor frames are useless, they should make them to have flesh health type to be more diverse.

[SneakyErvin]

A tiny suggestion if you have issues as speed nova in PuG defense groups.

Dont use that build. Instead switch over to a neutral MP build that neither speeds up or slows down the enemy. It keeps the same map coverage and applies the same +200% damage debuff on the enemies.

Or simply play a non-augmented disarm Loki.

[Oreades]

Well others have mentioned pretty much everything I would have power, Nova Nullstar, Trinity Link etc. Those aspects not withstanding I run most of my frames without any sort of survivability mods and for the most part I don't have much of an issue even in Sortie level content. The best way not to go down is to kill everything before it can kill you. 

So the best Armor IMHO is a good weapon.

[TARINunit9]

11 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

Don't. Just...don't do that. I can see a use on frames with DR skills but that's it.

Don't try to reason if you are not getting her. I did the Grineer Impact Sortie 3 Interception last time solo. Just use Null Star (14 orbs = 70% DR in my build on Page 1) and stay in the mid casting M-Prime. The enemies will getting slowed at their spawnpoint and also shoot veeeeeery slow once they did manage to come into the arena. And it took me 3 shots with a Supra vandal to kill them and no enemy could even get near me. I didn't even lose a single Null Star Orb in 9 minutes of mission time.

I have to say the same to you as to the OP. Learn her to play or leave her, but don't argue where's no hope if you are the cause of the problem

Did I say Nova is weak?

Did i ever say Nova is weak?

I know darn well how to play her. You know how to play her, we are in agreement on how to play her. All I have been saying is that her damage output does FAR more to protect her from enemy fire than her Null Star does

Maybe it's because i have been playing Revenant and his Mesmer Skin highlights just how rarely I ever actually take damage, but when I play Nova an enemy will be so slow and it needs to be so close that my Null Star will have already spent itself by the time a second bullet hits me

[(PSN)AstralSaiyan]

For Nova I mainly use her 1 and 4, I don't really use her 2 much. What weapons would you guys recommend for Nova? I know someone posted a speed build but I would be interested in knowing what you guys think is a really good slow build. I have 2 forma on my Nova and I have a potato on her. I do not have access to her augments, I wish I had her Neutron Star one though. I also don't have quick thinking. 

[Horaciozhao]

if a frame is low armor they all have ways to mitigate the damage, plus your parkour, none of the frames are actually hard to keep alive. Trinity with her 3 and 4 with power strength gives her 75% damage reduction, and her 2 keeps her always with energy, and her 4 instantly heal her, she´s actually really tanky. Nyx makes enemies attack each other, those few who actually shoots her can be mitigated by parkour, and her 4 makes her basicly invulnerable.