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[DE]Megan

Mask of the Revenant: Update 23.8.0 + 23.8.0.1 + 23.8.0.2

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I had like 38.9k of health stored on Warding halo and I have safeguard augment on Nezha. When I casted it on friend, it only gave him 2003 worth of health on his halo shield.  i think the update forgot to accommodate for Nezha's safeguard augment? Shouldn't the rework give at least 50% health of the original casted warding halo to my teammates?

rEy8gJ3.jpg

 

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I was originally skeptical about Fire Walker being a duration based skill rather than a channeling one. Other than that, I was interested in how Nezha functioned after the rework.

So after trying Nezha's rework out today...

2 hours ago, masterofdetiny said:

That was...unexpected, in the best possible of ways.

 

Nezha isn't magic, but those complaining about only 90% damage mitigation are missing a very viable combination set.  Namely, Health Conversion and a lot of the bet Arcanes.  In the case of the former, you can take a minor hit to health, use the chakram, add 450 armor.  After running through this on a defense, without any Nekros, the health orbs started despawning because of how many there were.  I never managed to drop below 750 health, despite suicidally rushing into hordes.

Likewise, once the ability to take minor damage is combined with 1350 extra armor, you're suddenly facing off against almost anything and simply smacking it until it submits to your authority (said with the Eric Cartman accent).

The flip side of this is that Nezha is going to take a heck of a lot more forma.  15 spaces for Health Conversion, 15 for Narrow Minded, 9 for Stretch, 9 for Agility Drift, and Primed Flow with Primed Continuity make the build...I'm going to say Rhino Tank like heavy on D polarities. 

Overall, I can only offer praise.  It seems like DE Pablo just gets what the frame can be, and has a heck of a gift for putting it together.  Nezha is less fast Rhino, and more a hybrid of Trinity and Rhino that takes healing and damage tanking at once.  To be fair, health orb drops aren't exactly fantastic; at the same time, not being locked into Trinity to health/energy pinata enemies is nice.  Player choice, in a very real sense.

I would have to agree with masterofdetiny on this one. I brought Nezha to today's sortie (which includes sortie 3, survival against Grineer on the Grineer Sealab tileset). Only went down once because I got careless when I lost the halo, and I lost that halo multiple times. I'm personally fine with the invincibility frame after the halo breaks, but if Roboplus wants it increased, I... won't be opposed to it.

Oh, and I had no suitable arcanes for Nezha. 6 forma though, so Nezha definitely will need investing as masterofdetiny already mentioned (and considering my build I used for sortie 3, I really only needed 5).

Still rather torn about Fire Walker now a duration skill instead of channeling, though. Energy orbs weren't overly difficult to come by unless I was fighting something like lv155 corrupted heavy gunners. I do use Primed Flow, though, so maybe the increased energy cap helps.

Still trying to figure Revenant out, though. ...Actually, I have no idea what I'm doing with him now orz

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12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Revenant Reave being capable of flying.

Thanks for the update. I'm loving the Revenant changes. However, him being able to use Reave vertically really helped him move up small ledges in his ult. I feel like removing that was a mistake.

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12 hours ago, WarriorWolfLRB said:

The Nezha rework is nice and all, but I literally sold him like 20 minutes ago... You guys wouldn't be so kind to revert that for me? XD

Why would you sell Nezha when he was to get these updates so soon?

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Only gripe with the Nezha changes are how the teleporting to a cast halo works (I used the augment before to mitigate that). Every time I want to cast the Chakram, I end up teleporting a mile away because the halo is still off on an adventure. This is exacerbated when you do the 4+2 combo, and all the multiple discs have to return to Nezha before you can safely cast 2 again. 

I'm not sure how to 'fix' that though.

 

1 hour ago, BlindStalker said:

I had like 38.9k of health stored on Warding halo and I have safeguard augment on Nezha. When I casted it on friend, it only gave him 2003 worth of health on his halo shield.  i think the update forgot to accommodate for Nezha's safeguard augment? Shouldn't the rework give at least 50% health of the original casted warding halo to my teammates?

That is not how the Augment works. It gives the team mate a new Halo with half of the health it would have if it had been cast on yourself.
So an example, cast on yourself - 2000 hp. Cast on an ally - 1000 hp

 

7 hours ago, .durandle. said:

I see that zaw dagger are not single daggers apparently
feels bad DE
feels real bad

No Zaw weapons can use skins. 

^for reference

 

Edited by ZephyrExia

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14 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Reduced the cost of Vestan Moss scans required to craft the Sunrise Apothic from 25 to 12

YES ! FINALLY A GOOD THING !

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15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Improved AI pathing in the Corpus Gas City tileset to reduce enemy crowding in certain areas.

Can we make this possible with Corpus Ice Planet tilesets as well? Especially for Excavations.

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"Fixed ability to trigger Exodia Arcanes on Exalted Melee weapons. Exodia Arcanes still apply to Zaws, just not in Exalted Melee (Excalibur, Valkyr, etc) form."

Why? You already nerfed exodia to the ground, why take that measly damage away from us in exalted melee form?

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As someone who already had Nezha as their most played frame, I'm not entirely seeing where people are coming from when they say that the halo changes "ruined" him.  I ran him on Mot survival for 45min and never broke a sweat, not even once did I get close to being downed despite intentionally playing carelessly.  I had both vitality and health conversion on for my durability mods, though probably will drop vitality since I don't think it ever once made a difference during that run.  Playing old Nezha the same way I was there would have left me out of revives.

 

I don't care if I'm not truly invincible anymore, Nezha's biggest burdens before for me was being so weak once the halo breaks and how all of his ability casts stopped your otherwise speedy frame.  As I see it, if you're getting shot enough now to die while you've still got your halo up, you've already goofed and old Nezha would not fare much better.  If you're finding that you and your halo are taking too much damage, that's what his speed and CC are for!

 

What I noticed pretty quickly and what made me very happy is I found myself regularly using all 4 abilities.  Goes without saying, but all of these are no longer a burden to cast, never felt that it interrupted the flow of things for me.
His 1 is actually pretty great now since it's got such a low energy cost compared to how long it lasts (25 energy for 42 seconds of covering the map in fire for me).  It both damages and stuns enemies, was very handy for kuva survival. 
His 2 is a lot more usable/useful now as well, the infinite supply of health orbs keeps your health conversion going and the damage boost is helpful both for removing bombards and for quickly clearing the bad guys stuck with your 4.  Simply knocking over enemies can be a nice bonus as well. 
The halo may only provide 90% damage resistance, but I find it's still plenty good enough to get the job done.  The changes to how the halo is cast and how it breaks combined with his HP buff far outweigh the loss of true invincibility imo.  I no longer feel "naked" once the halo drops since now it's so easy to pull it back on before anything bad happens to you.
His 4 is pretty straightforward, though now it synergizes well with his 2 and casts almost instantly.

The other nice thing about the halo only blocking 90% is it meant that I could swap out all the mods I used for his halo to just using health conversion and vitality.  Means I don't need to worry about mods like blind rage or streamline or steel fiber anymore.  I'm still experimenting with his rework, but the thing below is what I had for the Mot run.  Cropped out arcanes because I've not really got many so they're not relevant to this build.

Spoiler

LZyBBF1.jpg

 

Overall, what I got seems to be what they advertised.  He flows a lot better while playing him and is overall stronger.  I actually like the "nerf" to the halo too since now I can just throw on health conversion.

Edited by CatMemeMerchant
typo
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Running last night’s sortie with nezha, i can say he’s pretty good right now.. especially on sortie 3, i never got downed, never run out of energy, and had most kill while running around with my pyrana prime.. I got no problem with all of his abilities without augment..

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Please make Revenant invincible when Mesmer Skin as well as when he is casting the ability. 

Will make Nullifiers attacks useless toward him?

Yes, but it won't stop the swarming 15 moas from striping off Mesmer Skin in under 3 seconds.

Could this be abused to survive longer then you should? 

A little, but you would be burning through your energy and its not like your wiping out the entire set or instantly, make the game stupidly trivial, or screwing over you teammate.

Shields don't equal tankyness. Just be because a frame has a lot of shields, doesn't make them tough. Mag is not tough, no one thinks that she is, yet she has tons of overshield; and then there Equinox. Equinox can get and maintain almost 2,000 in oversheilds due to Mend, but that is not the reason she is tough. She tough because it stacks with Pacify's damage reduction as Mend ability to quickly heal. 

DE,If you don't like my quick fix to Mesmer Skin maybe the ability needs a rework, because Revenant's defensive elements just don't seem work together at all. 😢

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I really love the Nezha rework and he went from 'i hate him' to 'i love him' in the blink of an eye. It seems Pablo is a really solid pair of hands. Only two issues i have is that I actually... kinda LIKED the mid-air hop for his firewalker? It doesnt make much of a difference, but it made him feel kinda acrobatic, even though the hop was minimal. I suppose it helped compensate for me when I wanted to fine-tune where I was landing. Although I can also see how that hop would also #*!% with people's parkour so, eh.

Nezha's blazing chakram doesn't seem to reliably target those on divine spears. Sometimes I've managed to get it to proc, but a lot of the time it seems to miss. The secondary chakram spawned by the spear also seems to fly off at random angles, often skyward, and doesn't seem to target the nearest enemy well. On spears or not.

 

Otherwise, a #*!%ton of fun. I love him!

 

Revenant however, ehhhh. I'm doing the same damage as everyone else mostly, so I suppose he's not terrible anymore, but he just feels unsatisfying. Getting a horde of thralls takes too long, or too much button mashing, and often i'm in a position where i've thralled everybody in the room or they've already been killed. So I don't really get to DO anything with my horde so I have no option but to kill them. Particularly since his thrall is single-shot, they often die before the thrall affects them so they dont leave a pillar; and it takes a long time to repeatedly thrall several people. Expecting the AI to naturally propagate the enthrallment consists of waiting while the thrall slowly turns around as it tries to work out whether it wants to shoot, take cover, follow you or whatever; and though the enemy AI seems to target it quick enough, often teh thrall dies before it can retaliate.

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Fun fact: Nezha was one of the first warframes I built when I started playing this game, I absolutely hated it and it had to make room for other warframes I was building at the time, because I didn't have plat or anything to get slots (+ the usual excuses).

After this revisit I decided to rebuild Nezha and try it out again and I can say onle one thing: I like it, I like it a lot. So good job on this one.

I also think I should mention that the first time ever I saw Revenant played and presented by Rebecca, I was very sceptical and almost outright dismissed it as mr fodder. However when Revenant was released and I started testing it I realized that the final version was actually pretty good and I started liking it immediately. With the changes we see in this patch makes me like it even more.

Some of the latest work in regarding warframes has been really positive for me, with the exception of Vauban who is still a lackluster, but maybe some day even Vauban becomes interesting(?).

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honestly not see how these changes make me play Rev any different from before, I press 2, get more energy [if no enemies around], press 4, done, maybe sometimes press 3 to go murder another group further then the energy difference of spinning over to them, check everything is dead, press 4, press 2 if needed, move to another area, repeat.

Thralls are something to be used when; bored, solo and bored, solo and no energy to kill things and no ammo [..... lol no ammo]. to few, to slow to spread, vs just murdering everything. Maybe my play-style is overly aggressive in that if i kill it fast, it cant kill me mentality but this skill doesnt fit.

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3 hours ago, CatMemeMerchant said:

As someone who already had Nezha as their most played frame, I'm not entirely seeing where people are coming from when they say that the halo changes "ruined" him.  I ran him on Mot survival for 45min and never broke a sweat, not even once did I get close to being downed despite intentionally playing carelessly.  I had both vitality and health conversion on for my durability mods, though probably will drop vitality since I don't think it ever once made a difference during that run.  Playing old Nezha the same way I was there would have left me out of revives.

 

I don't care if I'm not truly invincible anymore, Nezha's biggest burdens before for me was being so weak once the halo breaks and how all of his ability casts stopped your otherwise speedy frame.  As I see it, if you're getting shot enough now to die while you've still got your halo up, you've already goofed and old Nezha would not fare much better.  If you're finding that you and your halo are taking too much damage, that's what his speed and CC are for!

 

What I noticed pretty quickly and what made me very happy is I found myself regularly using all 4 abilities.  Goes without saying, but all of these are no longer a burden to cast, never felt that it interrupted the flow of things for me.
His 1 is actually pretty great now since it's got such a low energy cost compared to how long it lasts (25 energy for 42 seconds of covering the map in fire for me).  It both damages and stuns enemies, was very handy for kuva survival. 
His 2 is a lot more usable/useful now as well, the infinite supply of health orbs keeps your health conversion going and the damage boost is helpful both for removing bombards and for quickly clearing the bad guys stuck with your 4.  Simply knocking over enemies can be a nice bonus as well. 
The halo may only provide 90% damage resistance, but I find it's still plenty good enough to get the job done.  The changes to how the halo is cast and how it breaks combined with his HP buff far outweigh the lose of true invincibility imo.  I no longer feel "naked" once the halo drops since now it's so easy to pull it back on before anything bad happens to you.
His 4 is pretty straightforward, though now it synergizes well with his 2 and casts almost instantly.

The other nice thing about the halo only blocking 90% is it meant that I could swap out all the mods I used for his halo to just using health conversion and vitality.  Means I don't need to worry about mods like blind rage or streamline or steel fiber anymore.  I'm still experimenting with his rework, but the thing below is what I had for the Mot run.  Cropped out arcanes because I've not really got many so they're not relevant to this build.

  Reveal hidden contents

LZyBBF1.jpg

 

Overall, what I got seems to be what they advertised.  He flows a lot better while playing him and is overall stronger.  I actually like the "nerf" to the halo too since now I can just throw on health conversion.

 

Yeah I don't get the people who are saying Nezha is broken, all of his abilities have been improved and the new skin looks good too. Forma aren't required to make him tough either.
 

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On other note, Nezha was supposed to stun enemies at his warding depletion. What happened to that? I never noticed anything stunned after it expired. Gara can refresh it's damage resist duration. Practically, all skills in this game should be recastable by now. There is no "too powerful" here anyway.

Revenants thralls "dead" mode is pretty neat, but still needs som work considering particle travel and interaction with DM, 

Also, can you make it that Thralls are invuln for a brief period of time to actually make them work as intended in multi games? They die from wind blows now, so it's not even worth energy to use it except when you have some range from your allies, which should never happen anyway.

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46 minutes ago, hooperinius said:

 

Yeah I don't get the people who are saying Nezha is broken, all of his abilities have been improved and the new skin looks good too. Forma aren't required to make him tough either.
 

I would say 'changed each of his abilities'. Making them stronger is a matter of debate.

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