Nezha Rework Feedback (23.8.0)

[Twilight053]

On 2018-09-13 at 2:56 AM, Naftal said:

Can you return the ability to heal for Nezha?

No, healing orbs are not proper healing. Unless you make them heal 10x more.

lol

[troyano323]

Pretty happy with changes just one little thing, could we have an increased amount of invulnerability after warding halo end ? currently its like one sec and i really think its a very short window to react to the sound effect. Can we have like a 2 or 3sec window to be able to recast? in early levels its fine since you are not gonna get deleted but if you pump up the lvls (180+) you dont want to eat a bullet from an enemy without the dmg reduction. Currently the way to deal with this is by using an ancient healer specter but still , the skill should work on its own an since the intention is to be able to safely recast it that increased time frame would reward players for really paying attention to gameplay ( keeping warding halo up ).  Thanks a lot for all the hard work , my girl nezha feels good ❤️

[Marthrym]

I have only a few issues with Nezha's kit as it is right now : 

 

Blazing Charkam needs a look at. It bounces off empty air far too often or just chooses to bounce AWAY from enemies after the first without hitting any other surface. The charged chakram ends up being more reliable because of this, even though it also tends to bounce off nothing too. The homing chakram needs to be reliable, and right now it's not. It's clunky and sometimes litterally anywhere but where it should be.

Warding Halo in its current form feels weird to me. Right now it looks like Splinter Storm and Iron Skin mashed together, which makes it clunky because of the mechanics used together. It's trying to land somewhere between the other two, and I think that's exactly where the devs made a mistake. Warding Halo has the limitations of both Splinter Storm and Iron Skin, without the BIG upside each has. Iron Skin has proc immunity, an absorption phase and a limited health pool, but complete damage absorption and no duration. Splinter Storm has no immunity, limited duration and reduces damage received by 90% maximum, but can be refreshed easily, has no health pool, can be used on enemies and can deal HUGE damage when using Mass Vitrify several times to refresh and boost it. Warding Halo has proc immunity, an absorption phase, a limited health pool without complete damage reduction, and can't be refreshed. It's like an amalgamation of Iron Skin and Splinter Storm, and I think that's where the problem is. I would give it complete damage mitigation back, or remove the limited health pool and make it duration based. Or make it its own unique ability with its own mechanics. Don't get me wrong, it's not that it doesn't work right now, it just feels needlessly convoluted in terms of the mechanics it uses.

 

Reliability is what Nezha's kit lacks right now. It's really good other than that IMO. Fun to play, just not entirely reliable. I can't trust Blazing Chakram, and Warding Halo trying to be too many things at the same time seems to hurt the ability more than it helps it.

[Windy_Wind]

I still think his Charkam should be affected by melee mod. At the moment, there is no reason to waste energy in charging the thing up just to do tickle damage

Edited September 14, 2018 by Windy_Wind

[Abyssshy]

Did anyone else notice when you use the chakram on impaled enemies it makes multiple chakrams? if theres about 2 or more enemies it hits?

[tastic]

Why was there a warp to added yo chakram, just remade nezha to see the changes and failed a mission as I used all my revives after being ported as it triggers when not wanted or needed when trying to charge attacks.

Trying to charge an attack for a big nasty heavy gunners or eximus and end up toe to toe with it and soon dead, Just no to the port

[GPrime96]

4 minutes ago, tastic said:

Why was there a warp to added yo chakram, just remade nezha to see the changes and failed a mission as I used all my revives after being ported as it triggers when not wanted or needed when trying to charge attacks.

Trying to charge an attack for a big nasty heavy gunners or eximus and end up toe to toe with it and soon dead, Just no to the port

I think the Teleport was added before he got Reworked and it normally happens when you activate the ability again after you threw it.

[ActualDruzy]

Honestly, I would prefer if the straight line throw and regular homing throw would get swapped.  Most of the time I want a straight line and I don't really want the homey bounce throw cause I want to tp with it, but when I want all of the other properties, I'd be more okay with charging it.  This is just me though, on top of the other Chakram QoL suggestions here I feel like this would help quite a bit.

[atejas]

I know Pablo suggested teleporting only on the hold cast. I don't think that's a good idea, instead I would suggest:

When the chakram is in the air, press 2 to teleport to it and hold 2 to teleport it back to you instantly.

[(PSN)OLLXK]

3 hours ago, Marthrym said:

I have only a few issues with Nezha's kit as it is right now : 

 

Blazing Charkam needs a look at. It bounces off empty air far too often or just chooses to bounce AWAY from enemies after the first without hitting any other surface. The charged chakram ends up being more reliable because of this, even though it also tends to bounce off nothing too. The homing chakram needs to be reliable, and right now it's not. It's clunky and sometimes litterally anywhere but where it should be.

Warding Halo in its current form feels weird to me. Right now it looks like Splinter Storm and Iron Skin mashed together, which makes it clunky because of the mechanics used together. It's trying to land somewhere between the other two, and I think that's exactly where the devs made a mistake. Warding Halo has the limitations of both Splinter Storm and Iron Skin, without the BIG upside each has. Iron Skin has proc immunity, an absorption phase and a limited health pool, but complete damage absorption and no duration. Splinter Storm has no immunity, limited duration and reduces damage received by 90% maximum, but can be refreshed easily, has no health pool, can be used on enemies and can deal HUGE damage when using Mass Vitrify several times to refresh and boost it. Warding Halo has proc immunity, an absorption phase, a limited health pool without complete damage reduction, and can't be refreshed. It's like an amalgamation of Iron Skin and Splinter Storm, and I think that's where the problem is. I would give it complete damage mitigation back, or remove the limited health pool and make it duration based. Or make it its own unique ability with its own mechanics. Don't get me wrong, it's not that it doesn't work right now, it just feels needlessly convoluted in terms of the mechanics it uses.

 

Reliability is what Nezha's kit lacks right now. It's really good other than that IMO. Fun to play, just not entirely reliable. I can't trust Blazing Chakram, and Warding Halo trying to be too many things at the same time seems to hurt the ability more than it helps it.

Take this with a grain of salt as i have had literally 3 hours playing new Nezha on a my girfriends pc account though he seemed far more durable in that time with current than old halo in that time. I honestly think people are looking too much at rhino and gara right now and not trying to judge the abillity in the context of nezha as he is rather than them. 

The current halo should be a straight upgrade to the old version because of its new mechanics when it gets taken down and the fact that the 90% applies to the full last hit not just what remains of the halo this means as long as you have the halo intact at any level of health you functionally have a 10 times multiplier on your ehp. quick burst of math nezha currrently has 125 base hp and 150 base armour so factoring umbral vit and umbral intensify he has  1062 hp and 1593.75 hp factoring armour and 150 shields bringing his base ehep with no abillities to 1743 with only mods available to everyone that is over 4 times the hp provided by the old ring on most builds (4000ish) and nearly 3 times the maximum hp of the old ring (6400ish).  

basically nezha has gained massive amounts of resistance to one shots in the transition and lost the weakness he previously had to being bursted down when you had low ring hp because it makes you invulnerable when you lose the ring.

In scaling content prior to his changes the ring being unrefreshable made it unreliable at high levels for survival and because it wasn't gated so the old minimum burst an enemy had to clear in order to kill nezha was actually closer to your actual hp than the buffer hp because all it took was you being shot with a low ring health to die. nezhas ring was not gated before this it was never 100% damage mitigation it was generating 4-6k of effective health that wasn't gated and couldn't be refreshed. no hp gained in the absorption phase was not practical on old Nezha it works on rhino because of the iron shrapnel augment giving you breathing room to recast not because you can innately survive fire at that level it is not practical to dive into a high zone of dps at that level to cast your ring because you will die trying to set it up against the swarm of aimbots.  

In non scaling content medi ray plus they ring is enough for literally everything available including enhanced sorties medi ray is readily available enough to avoid arguments about arcanes. starchart level 2 rings (10000ish ehp) will cover any mission without healing.  

As it stands the changes to the ring in the context of his new base stats grant him massively increased survivability before factoring arcanes the equal functional healing with the health orbs compared to the previous 250 hp gain ability to make use of rage/hunter adrenaline and a far higher ceiling as a frame when factoring the arcanes and rare mods.  

    

[-Temp0-]

That's all I have to say about the rework really.

Цитата

With a proper team you can just have a proper healer and not use bad healing orbs. Now Nezha can't even keep himself alive with damage going through warding halo and healing nerfed to a chance of 25 healing orb...

Yes he can. If you can't it doesn't mean the frame can't.

Цитата

The loss of healing is more about others than Nezha.  Nezha never needed healing, but could heal others, defense targets, etc.  Now Nezha needs healing and can only heal other players, and not very much.  That's a definite loss.

99% of the playersbase never knew he even healed anyone to begin with. So you can't lose something you never experienced. And with arcane pulse you can heal the **** out of teammates even better than before if you so want to.

Edited September 14, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Fallen_Echo]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)OLLXK said:

The current halo should be a straight upgrade to the old version because of its new mechanics when it gets taken down and the fact that the 90% applies to the full last hit not just what remains of the halo this means as long as you have the halo intact at any level of health you functionally have a 10 times multiplier on your ehp. quick burst of math nezha currrently has 125 base hp and 150 base armour so factoring umbral vit and umbral intensify he has  1062 hp and 1593.75 hp factoring armour and 150 shields bringing his base ehep with no abillities to 1743 with only mods available to everyone that is over 4 times the hp provided by the old ring on most builds (4000ish) and nearly 3 times the maximum hp of the old ring (6400ish).  

Thats fine and all but you forgot just how bad our damage scaling is.

A bombard can easily hit you with 1K damage and with halo on that will still damage you for 100, if you go for the minmax route or just a balance build you are going to run around with 125 shield and 375 health. Thats exactly 5 bombard hits but the problem is that bombards are not alone. You are going to get your health slowly chipped away by gunners, grenades, grunts and whatever stuff the game throws on you.

You can obviously go with the route you suggest putting in the 2 umbra mods and various survivability mods but at that point wouldnt it be better to just use someone else?

[-Temp0-]

1 час назад, Fallen_Echo сказал:

Thats fine and all but you forgot just how bad our damage scaling is.

A bombard can easily hit you with 1K damage and with halo on that will still damage you for 100, if you go for the minmax route or just a balance build you are going to run around with 125 shield and 375 health. Thats exactly 5 bombard hits but the problem is that bombards are not alone. You are going to get your health slowly chipped away by gunners, grenades, grunts and whatever stuff the game throws on you.

You can obviously go with the route you suggest putting in the 2 umbra mods and various survivability mods but at that point wouldnt it be better to just use someone else?

So run something else?

Like jesus christ. I'm that kind of person who likes simple warframs like Excal or Valkyr and can live with not using powers at all or using only one but you lot struggling to put a single vitality mod let alone use pulse, grace or life strike on top of having health conversion in this game and a fountain of health orbs from pressing a single button just hit a new pathetic mark right here.

Edited September 14, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Fallen_Echo]

33 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

So run something else?

Like jesus christ. I'm that kind of person who likes simple warframs like Excal or Valkyr and can live with not using powers at all or using only one but you lot struggling to put a single vitality mod let alone use pulse, grace or life strike on top of having health conversion in this game and a fountain of health orbs from pressing a single button just hit a new pathetic mark right here.

Im a pure minmaxer here, unless a frames skill directly gains a benefit from having an ehp mod i avoid using them.

The two umbral mods you suggested hogs two slots and takes up total 32 points, the arcanes cost either lots of plats (especially if we talk about grace) or an insane grind, the only easily accessible mod is the health conversation here.

How about instead of trying to justify the 90% DR by pointing up mandatory setups we go back to the original way it worked. I read throught a lot of Nezha threads and simply making the cast faster and recastable would have make it an acceptable defense tool.

When you say that the 90% DR is fine remember that Nova has the same and its considered useless and even Mesa's 95% DR is something you cant rely on as a defensive tool.

 

Dont get me wrong here, i like the Nezha rework it fixed a lot of the problems he had. The only two thing i have problems with is the bounce mechanic on the glavie and the invulnerability changed to DR.

[(PSN)OLLXK]

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Thats fine and all but you forgot just how bad our damage scaling is.

A bombard can easily hit you with 1K damage and with halo on that will still damage you for 100, if you go for the minmax route or just a balance build you are going to run around with 125 shield and 375 health. Thats exactly 5 bombard hits but the problem is that bombards are not alone. You are going to get your health slowly chipped away by gunners, grenades, grunts and whatever stuff the game throws on you.

You can obviously go with the route you suggest putting in the 2 umbra mods and various survivability mods but at that point wouldnt it be better to just use someone else?

The build i listed was literally just the 2 umbra mods literally nothing else on the build since everyone is guaranteed to have them not as you put it that and whole bunch of other survivability mods.

I'm trying to picture what your minmaxed 0 survivabillity mod nezha looks like to be completely honest can i get an example because i'm coming up blank. regardless i shall take the current nezha ring and compare it to the old in regards to survivability under the constraints you have listed giving i will provide 300 power strength to your build in order to maximise the ring to reasonable levels.

Assuming old mechanichs yo will be granted 3999.13 hp to your ring by said power strength. Meaning you die to the 4th bombard rocket under old mechanics and the 6th under new unmodded (you didnt factor armour into your calculation of 5). neither version of nezha has gating on the the hit to break the ring but the 90% version applies the DR to that hit before initiating the invulnerability which is an advantage its its favour. 

having the ring as temporary ehp versus its current mechanics is a drastic debuff to survivability because you can heal chip to your health you cannot heal chip to your ring you even have ways to do it built into his kit. the major issue with survivabilty with nezha at high levels before was getting to between 1-16 precent of your ring hp and getting one shot because you couldn't produce more temporary health on demand you can however provide more actual health pretty easily with all the various healing tools we have in the game at this point.  Under the old mechanics of the ring assuming your no survivabillity build there is a threshhold where 1k damage the example you gave can one shot you of around 400hp meaning that a ring under 10% could not protect you while the new ring and a minimum of around 70 hp no matter the ring hp will save you as enemy level rises the threshold to survive increases for both so lets say we are in endurance and the enemy level doubles over time what happens.

Well in the case of the old ring the formula to survive is: enemy damage-current heath adjusted for armour and shields-ring health:assuming you are at full hp you have 650 adjusted health and need 1350 ring hp to survive a bombard rocket or any analogue along the lines of a nully lanka or toxic eximus breath. 

New mechanics formula is: enemy damage-10xhealth adjusted for armour and shields: so at 2000 damage you need around 134 hp to survive the same attack.

It is a lot easier to maintain 70-135 hp than make sure your shield at no point dips to 11-27% to avoid being killed through said ring.

This adjust further into the favour of the new mechanics as you increase enemy level and even further in favour of new mechanics as you add mods to the build using new mechanics so even giving full favour to your build by assuming 300 power strength under old mechanics and no mods under new mechanics new mechanics are stronger. Nezha does not have a practical way to set up taking fire from enemies to inflate the temporary health of the enemy so yes the new mechanics are in fact a direct survivability buff. 

if you build into cc and therefore lower power strength you hit a threshold where you are 1 shot through your ring fairly quickly so those builds actually benefit more.from new mechanics than the high power builds. please show me a build that actually benefits in survivability from old mechanics because as far as both maths and practicality are concerned the new mechanics are fare more powerful for survivability.  

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im a pure minmaxer here, unless a frames skill directly gains a benefit from having an ehp mod i avoid using them.

The two umbral mods you suggested hogs two slots and takes up total 32 points, the arcanes cost either lots of plats (especially if we talk about grace) or an insane grind, the only easily accessible mod is the health conversation here.

How about instead of trying to justify the 90% DR by pointing up mandatory setups we go back to the original way it worked. I read throught a lot of Nezha threads and simply making the cast faster and recastable would have make it an acceptable defense tool.

When you say that the 90% DR is fine remember that Nova has the same and its considered useless and even Mesa's 95% DR is something you cant rely on as a defensive tool.

 

Dont get me wrong here, i like the Nezha rework it fixed a lot of the problems he had. The only two thing i have problems with is the bounce mechanic on the glavie and the invulnerability changed to DR.

ok i have 3 problems with this

1)nezha has never had more than 3 seconds of invulnerability he hasn't lost that he had temporary hit point and status immunity not invulnerability.

2)if you have reached levels where 90% dr is irrelevant you are taking burst in a bracket of around 7k per second that means you would with your recast suggestion need to recast his ring approximately once every 6 seconds. and you should be using something that can contribute to fighting at level 700 which Nezha cannot. that also assumes inconsistent enemy burst grants you the excess you need to avoid a 1 shot every time.

3) from a pure minmax perspective cost is irrelevant only optimal conditions i listed those 2 mods explicityli because that 2 mod build has universal availability and explicitly said you only need arcanes to reach the frames ceiling performance not in the listed build. mathematically old mechanics flat out require more mod slots to be optimised than the new ones as i have shown above.   

Edited September 14, 2018 by (PS4)OLLXK
math corrections

[EinheriarJudith]

no matter how i try to use chakram the enemy tracking is just so terrible.

[Fallen_Echo]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)OLLXK said:

1)nezha has never had more than 3 seconds of invulnerability he hasn't lost that he had temporary hit point and status immunity not invulnerability.

2)if you have reached levels where 90% dr is irrelevant you are taking burst in a bracket of around 7k per second that means you would with your recast suggestion need to recast his ring approximately once every 6 seconds. and you should be using something that can contribute to fighting at level 700 which Nezha cannot. that also assumes inconsistent enemy burst grants you the excess you need to avoid a 1 shot every time.

3) from a pure minmax perspective cost is irrelevant only optimal conditions i listed those 2 mods explicityli because that 2 mod build has universal availability and explicitly said you only need arcanes to reach the frames ceiling performance not in the listed build. mathematically old mechanics flat out require more mod slots to be optimised than the new ones as i have shown above.   

1) I know that the invulnerability period has not decreased, what i talk about is the period where his shields absorbed the damage instead of letting it throught partially.

2) The formula of Nezhas halo is the following:

Modified Health = (Base Health + Armor Multiplier × Nezha's Base Armor × (1 + Base Armor Bonus)) × (1 + Ability Strength) + Absorbed Damage

In this formula the absorbed damage is equal to all incoming damage x 2.5 , this means that if im getting hit in the 3 second invulnerability phase with 10K damage i will gain 25K shield on halo what will save you from 2 more hits atleast.

If we take this new formula and use it as an additional healthbar like the old one i would be really happy because it would give us scaling defense ability.

If we took the advices from other threads and put in health conversation and with arcane ultimatum or  guardian and manage to proc them at the same time the halo would work off from 2050 armor which would add atleast 5125 health to the ring before counting in any power strenght or the absorbed damage.

This can save you for a long time as a health bar but as a 90% dr its just pointless.

3) You are right here the cost is irrelevant, but at the same time theres a cost here what i cant ignore and that is a modslot wasted. From my standpoint using the same modsetup which is:

CP, power drift, fleeting expertise, primed continuity, intensify (will be changed to umbra one), Blazing chakram (for more damage and orb), stretch and 3 augur mods (one will be changed to health conversation).

 

Now excuse me but im not really sure if the stuff i write down is correct because its awfully late and i havent slept more than 4 hour each day this week.

[IceColdHawk]

All i think he needs would be some sort of "shield gate" whenever his Warding Halo is down. At the moment he goes in a very short invulnerability phase after Warding Halo goes down but not if the shot manages to go through his health to kill him. I'd like that he will be left with 2 hp and invulnerable for a split second whenever Warding Halo reaches zero. Rewards players who pay attention to it and cast it in the very right moment back and also allows Nezha to withstand enemies that deal a bit more damage than just your average content.

All in all a very great rework though. Not that i'm surprised. Thanks based Pablo 😄 

Edited September 14, 2018 by IceColdHawk

[(PSN)OLLXK]

32 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

1) I know that the invulnerability period has not decreased, what i talk about is the period where his shields absorbed the damage instead of letting it throught partially.

2) The formula of Nezhas halo is the following:

Modified Health = (Base Health + Armor Multiplier × Nezha's Base Armor × (1 + Base Armor Bonus)) × (1 + Ability Strength) + Absorbed Damage

In this formula the absorbed damage is equal to all incoming damage x 2.5 , this means that if im getting hit in the 3 second invulnerability phase with 10K damage i will gain 25K shield on halo what will save you from 2 more hits atleast.

If we take this new formula and use it as an additional healthbar like the old one i would be really happy because it would give us scaling defense ability.

If we took the advices from other threads and put in health conversation and with arcane ultimatum or  guardian and manage to proc them at the same time the halo would work off from 2050 armor which would add atleast 5125 health to the ring before counting in any power strenght or the absorbed damage.

This can save you for a long time as a health bar but as a 90% dr its just pointless.

3) You are right here the cost is irrelevant, but at the same time theres a cost here what i cant ignore and that is a modslot wasted. From my standpoint using the same modsetup which is:

CP, power drift, fleeting expertise, primed continuity, intensify (will be changed to umbra one), Blazing chakram (for more damage and orb), stretch and 3 augur mods (one will be changed to health conversation).

 

Now excuse me but im not really sure if the stuff i write down is correct because its awfully late and i havent slept more than 4 hour each day this week.

From what i can tell your build currently has. 

183 str, 160 effe and then either 95 dur+ 175 range or 119 dur and 145 range along with reaping Chakram and health conversion.

1437+1525x2.5x1.83+absorbed damagex2.5=8413.875+2.5xdamage absorbed under optimal conditions that is reliable to a rather large extent. u also have 1525 armour so approximately 6 times value on your hp which gives you 2431ehp without your ring so an enemy has to excess kill your ring by that much to kill you. Under these conditions and with the new invulnerable on wear off mechanic assuming perfect play you are basically unable to die until enemy damage reaches 3000 in a single hit. That is actually incredibly impressive looking at it that way now that i have done the math for your build and means again assuming perfect play you actually cannot die until level 200ish outside of lanka shots and mot and probabillity you taking a hit for that 2.5k shot at some point between 2.3k and 0.4k you are unlikely to die before level 240 but will be very inconsistent between 240 and 300.

By about level 300 enemies shotties and sniper/explosive are dealing 3500 damage minimum at which point without being able to recast the abillity isn't reliable enough to use as survivability and falls to the issues nezha had pre rework, that is however past the point where nezha is relevant damage wise so on doing a full read though i have to conclude that as long as you can keep you hp full consistantly and maintain full health conversion (not overly hard under these conditions) temporary hp will outperform here.  

Analyzing it in that context the abillity as you suggested it is in fact incredibly powerful and i now understand why you want it that way because with the new ring failure mechanics that is incredibly strong. past level 240 and up to 300ish there is brief window where the 90% should in theory be more reliable but as i and a team can afford to be running nezha.  At the levels this is fully relevant to i would advise dropping reaping chakram as its damage will falloff ages before this. 

current nezha has to heal more often but can take larger individual hits the problem as i have just discovered is that hits aren't hard enough early enough for this to matter outside of MOT as long as you arent making play errors as shown above. As it stands nezha currently has his health segmented into chunks of 2/500 by the gate after the last hit and can rapidly heal.

This is more consistent at higher levels because you have more control over your health bar than the ring hp in the upper mid 200's and lower 300's because you have better control of your hp than your ring health and you can garantee you are operate at max capacity without needing to reach hp orbs in the timeframe (not a massive upside). You also have access to arcanes that trigger on hit and are entirely independent of enemy fire for your absolute hp at any time and do not have as much constraint on your power strength in your build. 

The other big thing is the floor for both abillities i think of this mostly for the innevitable energy leach ruining everything. if you die with the temp health build you will lose your health conversion lowering your survival threshold on the first ring to 670ish which makes spiraling out a pretty serious threat as 1k damage hits are a lot more common than 3k.

The below bullets assume subbing health conversion for umbral vitality in the case od the 90% dr version

• Under around level 120 dr has greater potential max hp. 
• In content under level 240 or 80 on MOT temporary hp from the ring is superior to dr assuming perfect play and health conversion as you can theoretically always take 0 damage to mid 200 and consistently not die to about 270. 
• in content over level 240 or 80 mot current 90% dr is more reliable but not better at absolute hp because of control of your hp vs ring hp. 
• temp hp ring gains access to hp conversion while dr has access to more arcanes and rage.
• both are completely excessive at sortie level if running at full optimisation. 
• the invulnerability when the ring goes down is ludicrously powerful for both. 
• the first ring after reviving for the temporary health build is riskier than other rings because the threshold lethal is drastically lower before you have absorbed 3 health orbs making it less forgiving than the dr version. 
• changing reaping chakram to umbral vitality on your build makes you consistent all the way to over 400.
• arcane guardianor ultimatum push the dr version to level 400 as well in terms of survivabillity but it is more vulnerable to chip at that point.

So I will swallow my pride and admit that the temporary health version is in fact stronger in the context of perfect play with health conversion up at full and a health mod. though regardless of this the ability has been massively buffed by the addition of the gating on the hit that takes the ring down.

Either version is capable survivabillity wise of taking  nezha further than his dps is able to function. 

Thank you for making me sit down and actually crunch all the numbers on that health conversion build. 

 

[PookieNumnums]

On 2018-09-12 at 9:58 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

you cant spam divine spears because it has an activate deactivate mechanic. i laughed in ESO during grineer rounds. being able to spam the map with health orbs, heat damage, and an almost unlimited warding halo. atleast in this case all the tweaks nezha needed mechanically were made. honestly even if he had only made the changes to firewalker, halo,  speed up casting time of divine spears it would have been good. thats how little work nezha actually needed.

He didnt really need any. Warding halo is only so effective now. Enough dmg can get through to kill you when not taking dmg begins to matter.  I just want the ring to heal an area and modable amount , and for the augment to get its punch through back 

And you can spam it two ways. Low duration or simply cast uncast. You need the energy setup for it but day one i was running into them in def missions.

On 2018-09-12 at 11:24 PM, hazerddex said:

 

i like the energy orb mechanic soooo nah keep it as it is,

They could have just added in a smol % of energy to it. 

[-Temp0-]

9 часов назад, Fallen_Echo сказал:

Im a pure minmaxer here

That is absoultely your own problem. Pablo designs warframes in a way where you would want to use all of their abilities or at least most. Either learn or play something else. You're not required to play Nezha.

Цитата

The two umbral mods you suggested

I never suggested *any* umbral mods and when I was playing Nezha last night I didn't even have to forma him once to be able to play or fit all the mos I wanted to fit in him, mine has vanilla polarities and is literally impossible to kill for lv 100 enemies whcih is by date is still the highest level you fight unless going for long endlessr runs.

Цитата

How about instead of trying to justify the 90% DR by pointing up mandatory setups

A minmaxer talking about "mandatory setups"? What a joke.

Except now he also can heal, trigger most arcanes and provide energy for all teamamtes on top of having a huge as* non-los crowd control ability that he can spam at any second he wants to.

Being 100% invincible would just screen "NERF THIIIS" and that's all.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

That is absoultely your own problem. Pablo designs warframes in a way where you would want to use all of their abilities or at least most. Either learn or play something else. You're not required to play Nezha.

By pure minmaxer i mean i aim to only use power mods to maximize what a frame can do with abilities.

As i said upper in some comments i only have 2 problems with nezha:

1.) The bounce mechanic on the chakram is unreliable and many people have already made video evidence of the chakram ignoring enemies or in a crowded situation only hitting one target and not the promised 5.

2.) In my opinion turning halo from additional healthbar into a dr skill was a mistake what decreased Nezhas survivability.

I in fact like every favorite chat banner and apart from these i think the rework is really well made.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

never suggested *any* umbral mods and when I was playing Nezha last night I didn't even have to forma him once to be able to play or fit all the mos I wanted to fit in him, mine has vanilla polarities and is literally impossible to kill for lv 100 enemies whcih is by date is still the highest level you fight unless going for long endlessr runs.

Sorry that was meant for someone else, you were just mixed in.

 

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

minmaxer talking about "mandatory setups"? What a joke.

Except now he also can heal, trigger most arcanes and provide energy for all teamamtes on top of having a huge as* non-los crowd control ability that he can spam at any second he wants to.

Being 100% invincible would just screen "NERF THIIIS" and that's all.

It not like i was the one who said:

12 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

but you lot struggling to put a single vitality mod let alone use pulse, grace or life strike on top of having health conversion in this game and a fountain of health orbs from pressing a single button just hit a new pathetic mark right here.

You were the one who first pointed at getting vitality, lifestrike, health conversation with either grace or pulse arcanes.

As i said upper and illustrated it with math i believe the healthbar mode insteaf of DR would much better serve your survivability. As for the nerf screamers dont you think that as fast as the bounce mechanic gets fixed chakram will gonna get hit with nerf requests  because its capatable of dealing 13K damage to lv140 bombards?

You cannot avoid the nerf crowd so lets put everything up to an optimal level of performance before they get a taste of it and try to ruin it.

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

By pure minmaxer i mean i aim to only use power mods to maximize what a frame can do with abilities.

"By saying a duck I meant any bird that can swim". Nice try.

And regardless you can still do it if you want to mindlessly spam his 4 as a 50+ meters non-los cc or as a aoe low to mid level nuke, if you want maximum protection on the halo by slapping every strenght mod in the existence or by going a full damage buff with his chacram-marking that lets you get more damage multiplier than a  full power strenght rhino's roar.

Цитата

You were the one who first pointed at getting vitality, lifestrike, health conversation with either grace or pulse arcanes.

And nothing about umbral mods. If you can't bother to put a regular vitality and use literally ANY means of healing like 10p life strike or 15p winds of purity.

It's your own problem. Not the warframe's.

Цитата

As for the nerf screamers dont you think that as fast as the bounce mechanic gets fixed chakram will gonna get hit with nerf requests  because its capatable of dealing 13K damage to lv140 bombards?

No. A single or even 5 target ability being able to one shot something is nothing.

I fear they would nerf it but it's not gonna be the damage.

Edited September 15, 2018 by -Temp0-

[tastic]

follow up why I hate the chakram port, stuck above the ceiling this happened 5 waves from end.  If not for me spawning a spectre and my cat I would have lost that alert.  Took me another wave of spamming the chakra to get back down