Nezha Rework Feedback (23.8.0)

[sorcer3r]

With 40% Nezha is my most used frame. (With my balanced build I never had problems with sorties etc)

 

Overall I like the rework it. Is now a really more fluid gameplay.

When I mod my frames I always run Vodyanoi in solo and look how it works (Nezhas 4 does not work there).

And my experience is that his healing capability is just not strong enough / or the 90% damage reduction is not enough.

Btw healing your teammates was always a nice challange before the rework 🙂

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

By saying a duck I meant any bird that can swim". Nice try.

And regardless you can still do it if you want to mindlessly spam his 4 as a 50+ meters non-los cc or as a aoe low to mid level nuke, if you want maximum protection on the halo by slapping every strenght mod in the existence or by going a full damage buff with his chacram-marking that lets you get more damage multiplier than a  full power strenght rhino's roar.

How about you scroll up and notice that i even described that as a minmaxer i aim to not use any ehp mods unless they directly increase a stat of a warframes power.

As for maximum protectoin does it matter if you have absorbed 100K damage or 10K if you still take 10% damage? The soo called maximum protection might aswell become duration based and recastable because the absortion mechanic only serves as a low effort duration cap.

1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

And nothing about umbral mods. If you can't bother to put a regular vitality and use literally ANY means of healing like 10p life strike or 15p winds of purity.

It's your own problem. Not the warframe's.

First as i already pointed out upper the umbra discussion was not for you. Xou just got mixed in.

Also are you really saying that Nezhas current survivability must depend on weapons and weapon mods? Having a vitality is nice but i much more prefer when a frame can survive without it, you know thanks to its own skills.

My build were even posted upper too.

I fine if its optional to have pulse, grace or ultimatum on your frame with your choice of ehp mods but i dont like it when im forced to put on one because otherwise your survivability is equal to limbos without powers.

2 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

No. A single or even 5 target ability being able to one shot something is nothing.

I fear they would nerf it but it's not gonna be the damage.

You miss something crucial here.

Divine speared enemies release another chakram what gonna seek another five enemies and if we put in the augment you can easily eradicate a whole map with it.

Literally the only thing what keeps the nerf screamers away is the fudged aim the chakrams currently have.

[(PSN)OLLXK]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

How about you scroll up and notice that i even described that as a minmaxer i aim to not use any ehp mods unless they directly increase a stat of a warframes power.

As for maximum protectoin does it matter if you have absorbed 100K damage or 10K if you still take 10% damage? The soo called maximum protection might aswell become duration based and recastable because the absortion mechanic only serves as a low effort duration cap.

First as i already pointed out upper the umbra discussion was not for you. Xou just got mixed in.

Also are you really saying that Nezhas current survivability must depend on weapons and weapon mods? Having a vitality is nice but i much more prefer when a frame can survive without it, you know thanks to its own skills.

My build were even posted upper too.

I fine if its optional to have pulse, grace or ultimatum on your frame with your choice of ehp mods but i dont like it when im forced to put on one because otherwise your survivability is equal to limbos without powers.

You miss something crucial here.

Divine speared enemies release another chakram what gonna seek another five enemies and if we put in the augment you can easily eradicate a whole map with it.

Literally the only thing what keeps the nerf screamers away is the fudged aim the chakrams currently have.

Quick point with the changes you want it doesn't always matter how much damage you absorb as nezha, what will actually kill you most times if you don't screw up ring reapplication will always be the last hit overloading the ring. So your survivability with the change you want is tied to 2 metrics your ability to survive hits that overflow your ring health and the sheer health of the ring after absorbing damage you need to actually check those thresholds as a minmaxer or you haven't actually optimised him.

with a reversion to temporary hit points Vitality doubles your survivability in high level factoring that by upping the threshold of the hit that can kill you's minimum value admittedly less than hc would they do stack under those conditions though.

At sortie level and below anything exceeding 10000 ehp is in excess practically which your build reaches using health conversion if they change the ability back to temporary hit points and reaches under current conditions using umbral vitality the way its currently set up using your exact build but changing only that.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by (PS4)OLLXK

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, (PS4)OLLXK said:

Quick point with the changes you want it doesn't always matter how much damage you absorb as nezha, what will actually kill you most times if you don't screw up ring reapplication will always be the last hit overloading the ring. So your survivability with the change you want is tied to 2 metrics your ability to survive hits that overflow your ring health and the sheer health of the ring after absorbing damage you need to actually check those thresholds as a minmaxer or you haven't actually optimised him.

with a reversion to temporary hit points Vitality doubles your survivability in high level factoring that by upping the threshold of the hit that can kill you's minimum value admittedly less than hc would they do stack under those conditions though.

At sortie level and below anything exceeding 10000 ehp is in excess practically which your build reaches using health conversion if they change the ability back to temporary hit points and reaches under current conditions using umbral vitality the way its currently set up using your exact build but changing only that.  

I guess thats true but that could be fixed by the same way how shields in general could be fixed, the last hit gets absorbed into the shield/halo without bleeding out to your normal health.

This way you are guaranteed that you wont die because of a stray bullet hit you while the shield halo only had 1 hp left.

I might be wrong in this but arent the same is true in the current halo? Once you are out of the charge the next hit will just bleed out to your health.

[LustyLost-EN-]

I feel like the chakram can be done a little better, with the charged throw you get increased damage, however most of the time you miss the chakram itself. I really wished that for the uncharged throw the chakram goes straight with little to no enemy magnet, while charged throws would work like glaives would, bouncing and homing. So it would actually make sense to charge the throw to deal more damage rather than uncharged for enemy targetting. If all enemies were just standing in a straight line I would just bring an Ignis or a punch-through weapon. What do you guys think?

[(PSN)OLLXK]

8 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I guess thats true but that could be fixed by the same way how shields in general could be fixed, the last hit gets absorbed into the shield/halo without bleeding out to your normal health.

This way you are guaranteed that you wont die because of a stray bullet hit you while the shield halo only had 1 hp left.

I might be wrong in this but arent the same is true in the current halo? Once you are out of the charge the next hit will just bleed out to your health.

last hit still gets full damage reduction under the current mechanics so if you have 1 ring hp and 700hp adjusted for shields and armour you need 7000damage to kill you as opposed to 701 damage with ring as temporary health its why the current version with umbral vitality is so good you can pretty much guarantee you will never be one shot because its very easy to control your actual health total compared to the ring health total and you don't have any upkeep factors that can screw you over.  

[Fallen_Echo]

8 hours ago, (PS4)OLLXK said:

last hit still gets full damage reduction under the current mechanics so if you have 1 ring hp and 700hp adjusted for shields and armour you need 7000damage to kill you as opposed to 701 damage with ring as temporary health its why the current version with umbral vitality is so good you can pretty much guarantee you will never be one shot because its very easy to control your actual health total compared to the ring health total and you don't have any upkeep factors that can screw you over.  

Okay, i have confirmed in the simularcum that once halo loses its charges it stops all DR and let damage go throught.

I used a rank 9 nezha on the tests because i just formad him, still halo functions as normally.

The test subject was a lv140 bombard, when activated halo normally and got some damage absorbed halo was able to protect me from death thought the bombard still hit me with 100ish damage, but atleast i was able to run away after 1 hit. In fact i was able to survive atleast 4 shots without the need to get healing.

When activated halo without absorbing any damage i got 974 halo charge, a rocket hit with the said lv140 bombard used up all charge and killed me in 1 shot. Repeated tests show the same results, once an attack cannot be fully abosrbed by halo it no longer gives you 90% reduction.

 

[felixsylvaris]

New slippery boi is fun. And fun is quite important. The mix of damage reduction, fire proc aoe, so mid duration cc and that orb chance result in some very useful frame. Especially good if you want to focus on using your weapons and less damage with abillities.

[Fallen_Echo]

Guys am i the only one who noticed that the supposed speedboost from firewalker seems to be inconsistent, like its decides on its own to grant you it or not?

[wiinston17]

To all nezha users after rework, would you like to see blazing chakram become an exalted weapon? It would use thrown melee mods similar to a glaive.

Along those lines, since exalted only applies to #4 abilities, we could switch his 2 and 4. 

Now this is overreaching but his new 4 could be:

1. A homing chakram that hits all enemies impaled by divine spears using the same mechanics of x2 chakram up to a max of 6 simutaneous discs.

2. Chakram becomes a hover board (in anticipation of fortuna) leaving a blazing trail of fire and increased movement speed (unrealistic but one can hope)

 

[(PSN)OLLXK]

11 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay, i have confirmed in the simularcum that once halo loses its charges it stops all DR and let damage go throught.

I used a rank 9 nezha on the tests because i just formad him, still halo functions as normally.

The test subject was a lv140 bombard, when activated halo normally and got some damage absorbed halo was able to protect me from death thought the bombard still hit me with 100ish damage, but atleast i was able to run away after 1 hit. In fact i was able to survive atleast 4 shots without the need to get healing.

When activated halo without absorbing any damage i got 974 halo charge, a rocket hit with the said lv140 bombard used up all charge and killed me in 1 shot. Repeated tests show the same results, once an attack cannot be fully abosrbed by halo it no longer gives you 90% reduction.

 

Huh ok with that in place there is no reason to have DR over temp hp. Thank you for doing full testing i apparently had rose glasses because it was more effective for me in the runs that i took him into likely due to the cutoff after the ring goes down. if thats the current mechanics then honestly he would have been better Without the temp hp to dr change though i do still consider the changes to ring factoring the cutoff be a be a buff overall. 

May end up trying building him like nekros in melee with a health mod and hc to see how he functions under those conditions.

[Fallen_Echo]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)OLLXK said:

Huh ok with that in place there is no reason to have DR over temp hp. Thank you for doing full testing i apparently had rose glasses because it was more effective for me in the runs that i took him into likely due to the cutoff after the ring goes down. if thats the current mechanics then honestly he would have been better Without the temp hp to dr change though i do still consider the changes to ring factoring the cutoff be a be a buff overall. 

May end up trying building him like nekros in melee with a health mod and hc to see how he functions under those conditions.

In normal play its hardly noticable, the thing what gave it away was that i runned on a grenade in a mission and lost too much hp considering that i supposedly had the dr on.

Im on overall satisfied with my current build but i start to see more and more flaws in the chakram. Today i throwed it on a tar moa and instead of bouncing to the charger infront of him 1 meter away it flew away into the sunset like team rocket. Something is seriously amiss with the targeting.

[felixsylvaris]

il y a une heure, wiinston17 a dit :

To all nezha users after rework, would you like to see blazing chakram become an exalted weapon? It would use thrown melee mods similar to a glaive.

Along those lines, since exalted only applies to #4 abilities, we could switch his 2 and 4. 

Now this is overreaching but his new 4 could be:

1. A homing chakram that hits all enemies impaled by divine spears using the same mechanics of x2 chakram up to a max of 6 simutaneous discs.

2. Chakram becomes a hover board (in anticipation of fortuna) leaving a blazing trail of fire and increased movement speed (unrealistic but one can hope)

 

Right now Chakram main purpose is to apply vulnerbility, and i do not really need to do it more than once per body. Ideally using Sprears and then Chakkram to unleas chakram chain. However single cast is generally enought  for present group of enemies.

So dont feel the need for Exalted Chakram.

However more interesting glaives/throwing weapons... sure why not. Throwing melee has a lot of potencial.

[Crousere]

After doing some more testing I feel like I have to repeat what I said. Chakrams targeting seems super wonky and it seems like it has really huge hitbox which means the projectile itself is constantly blocked by something. I would also like to see speed of the chakram increased. Very often I kill the enemies before the chacram even hits them, which means I have to constantly stop and wait to see if it hits enemies. Teleport being tied to base skill also breaks the flow. The most frustrating thing is when Chakram refuses to hit a group of enemies and just flies somewhere, I recast the skill too quick and now I'm teleported somewhere and drop down with hard landing (staggers and slowly gets up). This seriously makes otherwise so great frame feel really clunky.

[UncaIroh]

Reworked Nezha definitely plays a lot better than before.

Please add some slight CC when you teleport and have 1 on. If that's meant to be an opener for nezha he'd be better with it.

Also, please adjust the way sliding works with him it's more a detriment than an advantage. I keep crashing into things and snagging on the map. I get the tradeoff that more maneuverability makes it harder to aim, but when it's at the expense of having controllable traversal, that becomes a problem.

[Borg1611]

Now that I've formaed Nezha and used him a bit, I'd say overall he seems decent but I think there are a few minor things you could still improve:

1) the fire trail from his 1 should provide a speed buff to friends when they walk through it

2) Chakram needs smarter targeting. I want him to have Xena style chakram skills. Sometimes it sort of does that and other times it just sort of flies off and bounces off some other stuff. 

3) If healing orbs are going to be his primary form of healing, maybe the healing orbs need a baseline adjustment so they restore a % of maximum health instead of a fixed value. They're kind of outdated. Maybe they should restore 25% of maximum health instead of 25 health. (edit: for equilibrium maybe that could still count them as being 25hp when deciding how much energy to restore, or just change the tooltip of the mod to say restores X health/energy when picking up the other type of orb). 

4) I wish he could halo other things by default and didn't require an augment.

5) I think it would have been neat if he could debuff Eidolon's with his chakram. The damage modifier doesn't seem out of line when you consider the amount of damage certain other frames can add. 

I did notice the twitter comments about Chakram teleport. I do also occasionally teleport on accident with him, but I'm not sure what a good solution would be that everyone would be happy with. Personally I'd just like an option of having an extra separate keybind that lets me teleport with a different key. In the future maybe they can add optional frame-specific settings (sort of like how Overwatch has hero-specific settings) that let you bind things a little differently where it would make sense for some frames. This could include letting frames like Ivara bind her special arrows separately instead of forcing us to all use the console-friendly cycling system exclusively. For Nezha, it could work the way it does by default, but let you optionally bind a separate key to teleport, and if you do, hitting 2 while chakram is out will simply not do anything while the teleport key is bound (or call it back possibly). 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Borg1611

[Meticia-Veritius]

I seem to have a problem where my chakram goes straight through staked enemies, it usually happens when I'm aiming. I find throwing it at enemies while aiming feels better, but something is off with the accuracy of it. Like, it feels like the hitboxes for enemies are too small for the size of the chakram, it doesn't feel like it should have to be pinpoint accurate to hit them.

[GGbroman]

Hey @[DE]Pablo, loving the nezha rework. I just had one little concern and figured i'd post it here.
whenever I throw out my chakram to hit an enemy that is impaled by my divine spears, it tends to jitter (jatter? move in a glitchy way? i dunno it tends to shimmy and shake) and miss most times.

to remove the "Aim-better-scrub" comments i figured i'd stand still in the game and test.

It feels sorta off. Nothing game breaking cuz the rework is still good. But if the chakram could hit the enemies I aim at it would make it so much easier to apply the take-more-damage proc that Nezha dishes out to enemies.

(just in case it matters in the slightest: i don't have natural talent on and the only abilities on are the first ability and the third ability, and i'm not the host)

Any help would be appreciated 🙂

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by GGbroman
added "to apply the take-more-damage proc that Nezha dishes out to enemies." and added "and i'm not the host"

[Meticia-Veritius]

^^^^ That's what I was talking about! XD

[TheKazz91]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the new fire particles are just a bit too much? That is really my only complaint about the rework is that the fire that is literally everywhere is just a bit too out of control. Dial back the particles/flame height by about 50% and then it will be perfect. 

[CopperBuck]

          There is one suggestion or feedback that I would give for the Nezha rework to make him a bit more viable for something like an eidolon hunt. If we can make his Warding Halo castable on all 3 squadmates without looking or aiming at them with the Safegaurd augment, I think it would make a big difference and he could possibly file a Harrow's role. It is not so easy during an eidolon hunt to search and find all your allies to quickly cast it on all of them in a split second when there's an energy spike going on or heavy damage coming down from the eidolon.

          I know this might be a bit tricky because Nezha's halo and his ally's halo will deplete at a different pace due to them taking different amounts of damage, and also because of them only get 50% of the damage reduction. But maybe if we can make it recastable with the augment, it might work. What do you guys think?

Edited September 18, 2018 by CopperBuck

[felixsylvaris]

I have a small issue with Spears animation, it looks like Nezha does unseccesful jumping jack, or slips on the banana peel. Maybe he is drunk (that explains the sliding). The spead animation is nice, but it could look more badass, and less slippery.

[TyrianMollusk]

On 2018-09-14 at 12:51 PM, -Temp0- said:

99% of the playersbase never knew he even healed anyone to begin with. So you can't lose something you never experienced.

People who don't even bother to know what their abilities do are not an argument.  Nezha lost healing he could do.  Nezha players lost healing they could do.  End of story.

Also, there's a very easy answer here: Keep the healing pulse for objectives, and the health orbs for players.