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Banshee is pretty much... dead. Rework priority?


-Gwyndolin
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2 hours ago, felixsylvaris said:

There is a situacion that you need level 100 for her multiplier start being important.

Why is every discussion reduced to endgame. There are players who are still collecting and ranking up mods and do not have top-tier-meta-braindead-boomsticks. Are those players excluded from using Sonar in normal missions? It is also a great tool for ranking up weapons, that cannot fit all the mods yet.

2 hours ago, felixsylvaris said:

There are minor issues, like her energy pool could be max possible (300 on prime) so she could use her abillities in more generous way.

Her energy is fine, because her most used skills last a decent duration. By design there is not much incentive to spam her abilities. And Sonic boom does not need damage as this skill is not ment for it. A one handed cast would be welcome though.

5 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

The problem here is not her being worthless or absolutely garbage. It's that she gets boring eventually and realizing you can do what you were doing 3 times better with another character AND in an entertaining way. Sure you can still speak of how good the sonar & silence is but, as I mentioned, that's all you have. That's literally all you have. You are forced to play that way and that kills the experince. I'm sorry but the mechanic "One shot everyone and get one shot by everyone, the better you are..." just does not fit this game. Not a bit.

If she is not bad and player constatnly use 2 of her abilities (I also often use #1, #4 needs a new concept agree on that), what is your personal gripe with her? Meybe her playstyle just does not suit you, and this is fine, there are 35 other Frames you can choose. However, this is not a reason to bash on her or warrant a change.

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4 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

I don't know what to feel but I can't resist taking a back step and let out that irresistable giggle inside me

Heh, no, you broach quite a few topics here and you'll find this happening ^^

'x' frame is bad will immediately get defenders of that frame out
dedicated Augment slots will start the great explanation of why Augments actually cost full mod slots in the first place
universal vacuum is just... ughhh... the arguments that come from people that believe uni-vac is just lazy, versus those that believe Kavats are better anyway, versus those that just think it's how the base state of the game should be... that gets weird.

There's a slew of things that genuinely just spark off arguments, don't worry about it. Especially when people feel compelled to defend some kind of honour like 'oh, I've never gone beyond two hours in a survival, it's pointless and the game isn't supposed to scale that way anyway' as if the people that have, and know it does, are somehow... bragging about their ability and think everyone that hasn't is lesser?

I don't know. It used to be just... the way you played, since Prime Parts didn't drop from Relics, they dropped from the round of the mission you were on, so a Rare part only dropped on Rotation C of Defense or Survival, meaning that if you weren't capable of hitting intervals of 20, 40, 60, 80, 100 and 120 minutes/waves in the required mission, then you weren't farming efficiently. Especially because the mission itself cost a player a one-time-only resource, the Keys, just to access it. So nowadays you have Relics that are consumed for a part, and each Relic has a roll at the common, uncommon and rare drops, right? Before you paid a Key to get into the mission, and you had to spend 20 minutes in there just to get a roll at that Rare drop table, if you extracted before that, you were guaranteed not to get a roll, so it was a waste unless you stayed in that mission long enough.

The incentive to run for hours was that you used only one Key (like one Relic) and could get three or four rolls at each round of the drop tables, and to make things harder the missions included everything else there too, you could be at 120 minutes and get a 1000 Credit Reward instead of a Prime Part... very discouraging. New system is way better because, if you're lucky, you run 20 minutes, use 4 Relics and get 4 copies of the exact part you're looking for, where before you could be unlucky and run 20 minutes and get a single Forma and some mods. But that exchange rate of 1 key per mission versus 1 Relic per part? It just made sure that the best farmers of Prime parts were those that put in the time for long runs.

Anyway, my rambling point is that people seem to get very defensive, as if by talking about this kind of thing that I've experienced for years is somehow challenging their competence or beliefs.

As if talking about a frame negatively when another person believes it's actually good and have played it competently for years, means that the person is saying that the player is bad, when really it's quite the opposite. All frames can be improved, but not all frames necessarily need it (I mean, I could improve Octavia or Nidus, or even Loki, but they don't need it, for certain), and being able to take a frame that's in need of improvement and do well with them is actually a sign that the player knows the game very well, is able to compensate for weaknesses in a frame or able to really, really use their strengths, in order to get the effect they want.

I do wish forum-ites were less defensive about things like that, but the debates that come from them are really entertaining.

I also might be a sociopath for enjoying sparking people off like this so much, playing devil's advocate, and then bringing things back to the point as best as possible while the other person is still trying to come up with an answer. It rarely gets boring ^^

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2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

 

'x' frame is bad will immediately get defenders of that frame out
dedicated Augment slots will start the great explanation of why Augments actually cost full mod slots in the first place
universal vacuum is just... ughhh... the arguments that come from people that believe uni-vac is just lazy, versus those that believe Kavats are better anyway, versus those that just think it's how the base state of the game should be... that gets weird.

Yes, starting a discussion will make people discuss, go figure.

There's a slew of things that genuinely just spark off arguments, don't worry about it. Especially when people feel compelled to defend some kind of honour like 'oh, I've never gone beyond two hours in a survival, it's pointless and the game isn't supposed to scale that way anyway' as if the people that have, and know it does, are somehow... bragging about their ability and think everyone that hasn't is lesser?

Especially when people feel compelled to defend some kind of honour like 'oh, I always go beyond two hours in a survival, it's the best, true and only way' as if the people that don't and don't care, are somehow... bragging about their ability and think everyone that hasn't is lesser?

I don't know. It used to be just... the way you played, since Prime Parts didn't drop from Relics, they dropped from the round of the mission you were on, so a Rare part only dropped on Rotation C of Defense or Survival, meaning that if you weren't capable of hitting intervals of 20, 40, 60, 80, 100 and 120 minutes/waves in the required mission, then you weren't farming efficiently. Especially because the mission itself cost a player a one-time-only resource, the Keys, just to access it. So nowadays you have Relics that are consumed for a part, and each Relic has a roll at the common, uncommon and rare drops, right? Before you paid a Key to get into the mission, and you had to spend 20 minutes in there just to get a roll at that Rare drop table, if you extracted before that, you were guaranteed not to get a roll, so it was a waste unless you stayed in that mission long enough.

The incentive to run for hours was that you used only one Key (like one Relic) and could get three or four rolls at each round of the drop tables, and to make things harder the missions included everything else there too, you could be at 120 minutes and get a 1000 Credit Reward instead of a Prime Part... very discouraging. New system is way better because, if you're lucky, you run 20 minutes, use 4 Relics and get 4 copies of the exact part you're looking for, where before you could be unlucky and run 20 minutes and get a single Forma and some mods. But that exchange rate of 1 key per mission versus 1 Relic per part? It just made sure that the best farmers of Prime parts were those that put in the time for long runs.

You're living in the past, time to move on.

Anyway, my rambling point is that people seem to get very defensive, as if by talking about this kind of thing that I've experienced for years is somehow challenging their competence or beliefs.

I blame millenials and political correctness.

As if talking about a frame negatively when another person believes it's actually good and have played it competently for years, means that the person is saying that the player is bad, when really it's quite the opposite.

That doesn't make any sense. 

All frames can be improved, but not all frames necessarily need it (I mean, I could improve Octavia or Nidus, or even Loki, but they don't need it, for certain), and being able to take a frame that's in need of improvement and do well with them is actually a sign that the player knows the game very well, is able to compensate for weaknesses in a frame or able to really, really use their strengths, in order to get the effect they want.

Nah, it's just what I'd call cheeze or one trick pony. 

I do wish forum-ites were less defensive about things like that, but the debates that come from them are really entertaining.

I also might be a sociopath for enjoying sparking people off like this so much, playing devil's advocate, and then bringing things back to the point as best as possible while the other person is still trying to come up with an answer. It rarely gets boring ^^

Yes yes, the warframe forums are a great place if you're a narcissist with mental health issues, thanks for your honesty.

 

Edited by Helljack84
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I think she just needs some flash added to her. Her abilities are good but they don't have much feed back to them without the augments. Silence visually does virtually nothing unless you have savage  so you can get finishers but stun is objectively useful . Same with her radar, its a good damage buff but there's no response for shooting the targets without resonance. Quake again is just aoe damage without anything noticeably special about it. Banshee is a frame I won't play without augments purely because her abilities lack complexity without them. Given the structure of her abilities I think her 4 should take some inspiration from saryn. Its an aoe ability in a kit with a mark mechanic ( radar) and I'd like some interaction. Radar should take some inspiration from harrows thurible, its an ability focused on aiming I think it needs something that shows the benefit of hitting those targets like the energy indicator harrow has. Silence is fine its basically her best ability but it needs some occasional power spikes to make it interesting like a toggle with  a detonation at the start or end. Honestly I don't really mind but she needs some wow moments.

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First Banshee ability is underrated, its strips all armor (with augment) in huge AOE while stuning all enemies, and when grineer have like 99% damage reduction oh boi its much better cost\efficiency than casting sonar 10 times hoping they stack on each other, and better it be head.

Edited by miomima
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