Chroma needs a rework

[Endrian]

On 2018-12-05 at 10:36 AM, (XB1)GameNerd300 said:

The one thing I never really liked about Chroma is that with him being a supposed "master of the elements" he doesn't have the ability to swap elements in a mission. Vauban gets to switch between what kinds of mines he uses for his minelayer, why can't Chroma swap his elements mid-mission? Was that too hard to program for him or did they just leave tat out because of "balance" ? I'd really like to know why.

He was the first Warframe to come out with "variable" abilities. He sort of introduced the concept of an "obvious" passive, the passive in this case being that his abilities changed based on his initial energy color. Only in the next update, with Equinox, would the concept of abilities being able to change in function mid-mission get introduced. After that, his passive fell further and further behind and he was never really addressed/reworked, except to be partly buffed (Vex Armor gaining aura effect so allies can benefit) and then mostly nerfed (Vex Armor nerf to damage and survivability) later on.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Endrian

[maddragonmaster]

On 2018-12-05 at 10:36 AM, (XB1)GameNerd300 said:

The one thing I never really liked about Chroma is that with him being a supposed "master of the elements" he doesn't have the ability to swap elements in a mission. Vauban gets to switch between what kinds of mines he uses for his minelayer, why can't Chroma swap his elements mid-mission? Was that too hard to program for him or did they just leave tat out because of "balance" ? I'd really like to know why.

my stand point ever since i realized this is that the reason why they never introducing the ability to swap elements is because of the fact that energy color was the determined factor of which element he has thus changing nearly all of his abilities but he has no easy to recognize factor that says "hey i am using this element!" so the idea was scraped probably because they didn't want to put more effort or couldn't figure out an easier identify factor. 

anyways honestly would love for each element to make a bigger impact then just using an elemental swap gimmic but hey thats just me.

[NeopetsMaster4432]

I hope that they fix Chroma's 3. The huge nerf to it earlier this year pretty much metaphorically clipped his wings.
It would be cool if his other abilities were useful too, but unfortunately, it seems to be a common theme among all the warframes to only have 2 or 3(in rare cases) useful abilities. 

Love the idea of being able to recast his 2 though. 😛

[maddragonmaster]

On 2018-12-09 at 9:29 AM, NeopetsMaster4432 said:

I hope that they fix Chroma's 3. The huge nerf to it earlier this year pretty much metaphorically clipped his wings.
It would be cool if his other abilities were useful too, but unfortunately, it seems to be a common theme among all the warframes to only have 2 or 3(in rare cases) useful abilities. 

Love the idea of being able to recast his 2 though. 😛

well whats good with the wings when they aren't useful to the actual frame? besides vex armor always had issues for instance if you go into onslaught  or any type of situation where you drop right smack into a massive group of high level enemies when you just freshly activate vex armor and not have shields to build armor up which you then get creamed instantly if you not wildly swinging your weapon with a life strike mod. or have a pet or something that refreshes shields. 

and a personal suggestion and i am not really sure if anyone is going to like if this happens. but i would like DE to clarify what they would be strongly against for reworks like would DE not want to impute a elemental switch or why they keep the energy color= element color, though i feel like i would know their answer as i seen similar situations in other mmo games. example dcuo and champions online. 

ok DCUO and CO are hero games with champions online being primary pve focus with a lot of creativity including power hue or energy color. while DCUO sacrifices the energy color or power colors for a more unified and simplistic power sets. these to games allow you to create a hero and villain (dcuo only CO doesn't have a villain mode) and since CO doesn't put alot of chips in pvp they have a bit more freedom, while DCUO tries to balance pve and pvp  so they want to keep some form of way to be able to tell the powers apart easier and  from a distance. 

so lets look at every other frame. paticularly chroma vauban, ivera, and equinox. vaubans and ivera swap if i remember right only focus on 1 ability, while equinox's abilities focus on the general but heres the thing you can tell which mode equinox is in just by looking at her. so tell me if you remove the energy color requirement and give him a elemental swap how would you tell which element chroma is using? nope as it would of took so much effort to make him then it would be worth it. 

on a side note. if chroma was more like equinox, could you imagine having to construct 4 seprate frames before creating him?

[Metrod125]

On 2018-12-05 at 1:30 AM, Zanoza-chan said:

NO NO NO PLEASE NO
Just because you don't use it yourself doesn't mean it's bad and useless. Chroma gameplay exists outside the eidolons and this augment is extremely useful for those who use Chroma not only as weapon rack.

 

First, a quote from someone on the Warframe Wiki

"So I was thinking about using this on Traumatic Redirection Chroma. The good news is that it does proc every 10 seconds from the self-damage, but it is honestly pretty inconsistent.

I did some testing in the Simu against some basic butchers (and various others), and the game didn't seem able to decide which enemies should be knocked down by the blast proc. Many were left standing who were not recovering from an earlier proc, and so were not immune, and they were clearly within the blast radius. (It even happened when they were practically touching me)

It deals some unknown amount of damage (though tiny) as it was killing them (when it hit properly) at very low levels (like 5-10).

I'm pretty open to trying weird combos, non-meta, non-minmaxed builds, etc., but the small radius does kind of kill this augment.

If you're running Traumatic, you're going to be shooting for that massive damage boost by cheesing Vex Armor's Fury component, so you can't really patch up with Overextended because that's like losing 2 slots due to the negative strength...

And if you are running Narrow Minded for extra duration, forget about this mod. Even at 250% range, and triggering automatically every 10 seconds (and more with other damage sources), it feels situational at best, particularly with its evident inconsistencies!

Obviously, there are 'better' things to do with a slot on your build, as many people jump to point out. But the thing with Vexing Retalieation is: it doesn't present enough utility (or fun) to even feel worthwhile on a fun build.

I'm the guy that will run around with the Soul Punch augment on (and two others because the fun build has the space) because Soul-Punching an ally instantaneously back to their feet from across the room is fun to do. (and helpful)

Vexing Retialiation, IMO, finds itself in that familiar pool of bummer mods amongst the other augments that sounds interesting and full of potential and possibly great fun, but sadly miss the mark. Bummer.

Maybe it could work if it included its current function but also status procced with the your energy color's element. Or maybe just a small tweak to the damage requirement and or range. Or maybe something else, who knows" - A Lone Tenno

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Vexing_Retaliation

 

 

Second, I think its possible for the whole "elemental swapping" thing to work with Chroma, because he already has noticeable effects already tied into his 2 ability.

Heat based Chromas will always have this fiery ring around them

Cold based Chromas will always have a coating of ice on them

Electric based Chromas will always have a swirl of electricity on the surface of their body models

Toxic based Chromas will always have a similar ring to Heat Chromas, except its an inward oozing effect in addition to an ooze like coating on Chroma's body model

As for the Vauban/Ivara examples, yes they both have swapping mechanics, but ONLY the players using those warframes will know what they have selected, and no one else in a squad will see unless those Ivara/Vauban players use those abilities. In addition, using Equinox as a example bundle with Ivara/Vauban is not applicable. Equinox’s “swapping” power doesn’t change the effect of a single ability, it changes the function of her entire kit with no real synergy except for a charge storage mod that serves as a bandage patch.

But again, Chroma swapping his elements would be fine in a way similar to Vauban/Ivara. Besides, you can’t really tell if Chroma is in Heat or Cold unless they use their second ability and you see the visual effects (which again, the fiery ring and the icy coating). As for the recasting of his second ability, Chroma recasting his 2 in a different element would replace the effects of the previous element he had before. As an example, Chroma is in Heat state with his fiery ring going, and then he swaps to Cold, causing the fiery ring to fade away and he gains his icy coating. Finally, aside from the visual effects of his second ability, Chroma's other powers don't really show what element he's in, and there's really no major differences between each element except for damage type and status effects.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Metrod125

[Endrian]

One day, DE will recognize the genuine need and announce a rework for Chroma as being in the works.

One day...

[Zanoza-chan]

В 13.12.2018 в 06:43, Metrod125 сказал:

Besides, you can’t really tell if Chroma is in Heat or Cold unless they use their second ability and you see the visual effects (which again, the fiery ring and the icy coating)

But what makes you want to... I mean... only his 2nd is affecting the other players, and if you're not Chroma, and that Chroma doesn't use his 2 - you are not interested in it cus it doesn't apply to you anyway. And in other case, if Chroma uses his 2nd, you can see it and decide if you want to step closer to allow it to be applied to you.

Also, I'm a bit shocked. I left a comment here a few days ago and completely forgotten about it. And now you quoted me, I returned there and suddenly realized that topic already has 57 pages. Woah.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

On 2018-12-13 at 5:43 AM, Metrod125 said:

Vexing Retialiation, IMO, finds itself in that familiar pool of bummer mods amongst the other augments that sounds interesting and full of potential and possibly great fun, but sadly miss the mark. Bummer

I would rework the augment to a status/critical buff by hitting shields/health, but without making it godlike

[maddragonmaster]

On 2018-12-12 at 10:43 PM, Metrod125 said:

 

 

Second, I think its possible for the whole "elemental swapping" thing to work with Chroma, because he already has noticeable effects already tied into his 2 ability.

Heat based Chromas will always have this fiery ring around them

Cold based Chromas will always have a coating of ice on them

Electric based Chromas will always have a swirl of electricity on the surface of their body models

Toxic based Chromas will always have a similar ring to Heat Chromas, except its an inward oozing effect in addition to an ooze like coating on Chroma's body model

As for the Vauban/Ivara examples, yes they both have swapping mechanics, but ONLY the players using those warframes will know what they have selected, and no one else in a squad will see unless those Ivara/Vauban players use those abilities. In addition, using Equinox as a example bundle with Ivara/Vauban is not applicable. Equinox’s “swapping” power doesn’t change the effect of a single ability, it changes the function of her entire kit with no real synergy except for a charge storage mod that serves as a bandage patch.

But again, Chroma swapping his elements would be fine in a way similar to Vauban/Ivara. Besides, you can’t really tell if Chroma is in Heat or Cold unless they use their second ability and you see the visual effects (which again, the fiery ring and the icy coating). As for the recasting of his second ability, Chroma recasting his 2 in a different element would replace the effects of the previous element he had before. As an example, Chroma is in Heat state with his fiery ring going, and then he swaps to Cold, causing the fiery ring to fade away and he gains his icy coating. Finally, aside from the visual effects of his second ability, Chroma's other powers don't really show what element he's in, and there's really no major differences between each element except for damage type and status effects.

ok how are you going to tell what that chroma has when that chroma is bouncing around the dang place? chroma needs something  that is not going to be extreamly difficult to spot when the chroma is moving very fast in this game. again how do you tell between fire and toxic , ice and electric when that chroma is bouncing all over the place. 

chroma's kit minus vex armor changes. spectral scream does heat, electric, ice, or toxic damage, his elemental ward has buffs tide to each of the four elements and then that does elemental damage too, and then his effigy the one thing at times i have a extreme amount of hate with it, yet i tolerate it. 

with vauban and ivara they only have one ability that is effected by the switching and it is the one that the switching is attatched to it. 

chroma needs to have his elements stand out rather then have a elemental switching gimmick. which i can dislike or even hate the idea at varying levels. i mean why do i need a elemental swap gimmick when i find the idea near worthless.

 as far as i know reading what energy color they have is the best way to have it.

Edited December 16, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[maddragonmaster]

sorry, i have been having a bit of stress lately. but still please inform me a person  who just wants to play the dragon themed frame like i am playing a dragon themed frame where i fly into the fray and just smash, slash, and fry everything in my wake with my weapons of choice and a elemental breath attack. as i do not care for trying to play warframe like i am playing a pokemon tornament where i am constantly worrying about which element to use against which enemy when i am in a mission. 

[(PSN)jman10089]

On 2018-12-16 at 12:16 AM, maddragonmaster said:

sorry, i have been having a bit of stress lately. but still please inform me a person  who just wants to play the dragon themed frame like i am playing a dragon themed frame where i fly into the fray and just smash, slash, and fry everything in my wake with my weapons of choice and a elemental breath attack. as i do not care for trying to play warframe like i am playing a pokemon tornament where i am constantly worrying about which element to use against which enemy when i am in a mission. 

Sorry about your recent stress , I can understand because last week was finals week and my graduation this semester was on the line(BTW I graduated). But I do disagree with you on the elemental swapping being a gimmick, because while yes you do need to constantly worry about the element you are using it's the almost the same as now.The difference is that you don't need to quit a mission in order to change the element to one that works better for th situation you're in and it wont screw with your fashion frame colors. Now how the swapping could also be used is to change the functionality of his one, like heat would shoot fireballs cold could shoot icicles or a bone chilling shriek that stuns surrounding enemies and electric would blast chain lighting. For those three I'm thinking of tap and go abilities, but toxin damage my idea is that it stays channeled and increase the range and the cone spread, and while the ability is on for toxin it will constantly add procs to enemies hit. Of course these changes would get a nice buff in damage, stat chance, and range. His two should be the swap button and keep the abilities it already has,tap to use e-ward and hold to swap, along with changes to toxin and lighting buff. For electric the shield recharge could be increased and the amount of shields gained from the boost can be increased and the retaliation strikes should have increased range or become radial discharges for the current range and have a higher status chance . Toxin should increase reload speed, and firing rate (weapon swapping speed isn't too useful) and the aura range again needs and increase. But the change that should go to the ability as a whole is the damage reflection should go to each element not just cold and electric. For vex armor I wound like at least armor calculation to go back to the way it was but I know thats not gonna happen. His for is alright but it would be much more fun if he got an exalted dragon form that let him bust out dragon claws and fly.

[maddragonmaster]

19 hours ago, (PS4)jman10089 said:

Sorry about your recent stress , I can understand because last week was finals week and my graduation this semester was on the line(BTW I graduated). But I do disagree with you on the elemental swapping being a gimmick, because while yes you do need to constantly worry about the element you are using it's the almost the same as now.The difference is that you don't need to quit a mission in order to change the element to one that works better for th situation you're in and it wont screw with your fashion frame colors. Now how the swapping could also be used is to change the functionality of his one, like heat would shoot fireballs cold could shoot icicles or a bone chilling shriek that stuns surrounding enemies and electric would blast chain lighting. For those three I'm thinking of tap and go abilities, but toxin damage my idea is that it stays channeled and increase the range and the cone spread, and while the ability is on for toxin it will constantly add procs to enemies hit. Of course these changes would get a nice buff in damage, stat chance, and range. His two should be the swap button and keep the abilities it already has,tap to use e-ward and hold to swap, along with changes to toxin and lighting buff. For electric the shield recharge could be increased and the amount of shields gained from the boost can be increased and the retaliation strikes should have increased range or become radial discharges for the current range and have a higher status chance . Toxin should increase reload speed, and firing rate (weapon swapping speed isn't too useful) and the aura range again needs and increase. But the change that should go to the ability as a whole is the damage reflection should go to each element not just cold and electric. For vex armor I wound like at least armor calculation to go back to the way it was but I know thats not gonna happen. His for is alright but it would be much more fun if he got an exalted dragon form that let him bust out dragon claws and fly.

ok. the reason i hate the idea of elemental swap is that i don't want every dang youtube player working the dang elemental swap bit into their build guides and then preach about meta this meta that meta meta meta META. i am so sick of it. sick of the nitpickyness of "spectral scream is bad its terrible! go vex armor its great! choose cold or whatever its the best element! " every time i hear someone just nitpick the heck out of something that i like or at least wish to like and makes it off as the bad choice or what i tend to get very very very angry. 

and then there is the part were these players which i am sure are going for the most meta build for each meta frame complains about the difficulty being easy, that becomes a redundant, and then forces it others to be stuck with those meta builds when they do amp up the difficulty. 

i just want each of the dang elements to just be personalized better. and i just want all elements just to be as equal as they can be so i am not forced to choose an element out of necessity but what i am feeling for. 

and as much as hypocritical as this sounds, lets get to the point here. why would we need to switch elements when there's at least only 2 effective basic elements that's good against each faction.  plus their statuses are not up to par. the only reason people want this elemental switch as of now is because they think it will boosts condition overload.  

at the point i don't really mind if they added in a feature that allows you to make a final judgment at which elemental choice you want if you don't agree with the choice. its fine as long as they keep the energy color=elemental power as a optional feature. but i don't want elemental swapping to be a thing because thats just about the center of the nitpicking of chroma and of people nitpicking that he should of had a elemental swapping ability instead of spectral scream.  i mean seriously people can't help but nitpick the fact he doesn't have a elemental swapping and often comment that because his codex or something states (he is a elemental master) in parts should mean he needs elemental swapping. 

and i am coming in head to say he DOESN'T. he could just be finely tweaked  to the point where he can make it off fine without elemental swapping. we don't need elemental swapping. we just need his abilities tweaked. and as much as i said before of how i dislike and even hate effigy because i at one point of time believed it got in the way of his kit, i just ended up accepting effigy because at the end of it i just want his abilities to be improved on better. and above all i want spectral scream to just benefit more from his stats.

[ZodiacShinryu]

10 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

ok. the reason i hate the idea of elemental swap is that i don't want every dang youtube player working the dang elemental swap bit into their build guides and then preach about meta this meta that meta meta meta META. i am so sick of it. sick of the nitpickyness of "spectral scream is bad its terrible! go vex armor its great! choose cold or whatever its the best element! " every time i hear someone just nitpick the heck out of something that i like or at least wish to like and makes it off as the bad choice or what i tend to get very very very angry. 

<snip>

i just want each of the dang elements to just be personalized better. and i just want all elements just to be as equal as they can be so i am not forced to choose an element out of necessity but what i am feeling for. 

and as much as hypocritical as this sounds, lets get to the point here. why would we need to switch elements when there's at least only 2 effective basic elements that's good against each faction.  plus their statuses are not up to par. the only reason people want this elemental switch as of now is because they think it will boosts condition overload.  

I am sorry but I am back and there is a sort of paradox to this. They [elements] can't be "personalized" and "equal"; it is impossible. Differences are what fuel "Meta" suggestions. If you don't want to be "nitpicked" then the action you want DE to do is make them more similar to each other rather than more distinct from each other. They can't criticize your choices if the choices are the same. Otherwise those distinct values/benefits each element possesses will be thrown through the Meta blender to figure out which situations are favorable and what is the overall dominant of the combinations. It is unavoidable because it is all done by players... not the devs (and I can absolutely tell you that the devs do not care what you plays as for what activity). However what a (simple) swap/shift mechanic does is give you [the player] flexibility when ever or where ever you need it, not the mechanics/raw numbers dictating optimal settings. Yes it certainly will have its applications on CO builds but it ultimately ripples much further than that, the question is how much rather than the specifics of what. Simply, your problem as I see it is not with Chroma's possibilities as much as it with an elitist player base which no matter what is done will be hard-pressed to avoid (my advice would be just ignore them).

Which always brings me back to my foundational points...

1. Spectral Scream and Effigy need to be brought up and more enticing to use in general; whether it is a mechanical addition, synergy, base system overhauls and/or statistical tweaks. (Spectral Scream doesn't need to be removed in any form, especially for a swap focused ability when the tech already exists in the game to have him swap and keep his ability aka Ivara Quiver).
2. At the very least Cold Ward needs to be redone. It's uses are far dwarfed by Heat simply because of raw statistical values and interactions (aka diminishing armor return). It holds no niche that heat ward and cold weaponry don't do better, or even gameplay variance that electric covers better. Ideally each element should fill a role that the others do not.
3. He needs to actually compete in an elemental niche because currently he only boosts damage and mitigates incoming. It is very one dimensional.

All of that is regardless of whether he gets an elemental swap mechanic or not. That said, a swap opens up more interesting possibilities.

[maddragonmaster]

1 hour ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I am sorry but I am back and there is a sort of paradox to this. They [elements] can't be "personalized" and "equal"; it is impossible. Differences are what fuel "Meta" suggestions. If you don't want to be "nitpicked" then the action you want DE to do is make them more similar to each other rather than more distinct from each other. They can't criticize your choices if the choices are the same. Otherwise those distinct values/benefits each element possesses will be thrown through the Meta blender to figure out which situations are favorable and what is the overall dominant of the combinations. It is unavoidable because it is all done by players... not the devs (and I can absolutely tell you that the devs do not care what you plays as for what activity). However what a (simple) swap/shift mechanic does is give you [the player] flexibility when ever or where ever you need it, not the mechanics/raw numbers dictating optimal settings. Yes it certainly will have its applications on CO builds but it ultimately ripples much further than that, the question is how much rather than the specifics of what. Simply, your problem as I see it is not with Chroma's possibilities as much as it with an elitist player base which no matter what is done will be hard-pressed to avoid (my advice would be just ignore them).

Which always brings me back to my foundational points...

1. Spectral Scream and Effigy need to be brought up and more enticing to use in general; whether it is a mechanical addition, synergy, base system overhauls and/or statistical tweaks. (Spectral Scream doesn't need to be removed in any form, especially for a swap focused ability when the tech already exists in the game to have him swap and keep his ability aka Ivara Quiver).
2. At the very least Cold Ward needs to be redone. It's uses are far dwarfed by Heat simply because of raw statistical values and interactions (aka diminishing armor return). It holds no niche that heat ward and cold weaponry don't do better, or even gameplay variance that electric covers better. Ideally each element should fill a role that the others do not.
3. He needs to actually compete in an elemental niche because currently he only boosts damage and mitigates incoming. It is very one dimensional.

All of that is regardless of whether he gets an elemental swap mechanic or not. That said, a swap opens up more interesting possibilities.

again i stand by the fact he doesn't need it nor is it implied he should have it. parts in the codex or wiki or web page that stats him to be an elemental master are possible words to just make him sound much more cool to get people to want him more. 

again as i stated before in order to at least get past the energy color=element power they need to find a far better way for a player to recognize  what mode chroma is in at a distance or just by a quick glance. but lets just ignore for a while  i don't want him to be some over complexes mess. i just want him short and simple and straight to the point. i don't pick  vauban or ivera due to myself preferring a straight and simple frame no elemental swapping clutter in my way and no worry about it.

chroma is not ivera, chroma is not vauban, chroma is not equinox. chroma is chroma, and he is so pose to do what he does best. rampage through a level leaving dismembered limbs and what not. he is not a strategist he needs no complex thought he just needs to be chroma.

[ZodiacShinryu]

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

again i stand by the fact he doesn't need it nor is it implied he should have it.

He doesn't "need" to be changed at all (none of the warframes "need" to be changed), as far as the game is concerned he is already doing more than enough. And it is not implied that he can not or should not.

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

again as i stated before in order to at least get past the energy color=element power they need to find a far better way for a player to recognize  what mode chroma is in at a distance or just by a quick glance

Why? The main effect that anyone cares about for team support is one half of the Vex calculation (the Fury buff to be clear) which has little to no indication that is easily noticeable from a distance and is not affected by color anyway. Besides that, only Heat and Toxin are not "easily" distinguishable from afar (partly because they are similar animations; Heat flows out while Toxin flows in) with a locked in animation range (those particular effects/functions are not affected range aka share range is already invisible). Since that is the only team based elemental interaction (since we don't have a special combo system set up on procs) what color anything else is is irrelevant to the team as far as gameplay goes.

They could simply make a more distinct animation if it matters so much. But we are already ignoring that because everything is Aura type (a relatively small area at that) and is pressured to not make it larger just to keep him competitive.

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

i don't want him to be some over complexes mess. i just want him short and simple and straight to the point. i don't pick  vauban or ivera due to myself preferring a straight and simple frame no elemental swapping clutter in my way and no worry about it.

Most people aren't advocating for complex shifting. Just simple access. Even so... the main simplicity in Chroma is still Vex which never changes in any form. Vauban and Ivara are not complex because of their "ability swap" mechanics; they feel complex because their tactics don't allow for mistakes quite like Vex allows Chroma. With that said, swapping abilities is optional on any one of the frames in question. While I can certainly agree that "press vs hold" can get messy if you need to swap and use constantly but Chroma also has the beauty of having abilities that don't need to be used constantly.

In the hypothetical situation that DE only buffed damage on 1 and 4 and added a swap mechanic (on any of his abilities), you are basically complaining about an additional functionality you don't actually have to participate in. Vex is still going to do most the work regardless of your color/form whether you decide to change or not.

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

chroma is chroma, and he is so pose to do what he does best. rampage through a level leaving dismembered limbs and what not. he is not a strategist he needs no complex thought he just needs to be chroma.

To you maybe. However none of his powers by themselves remove limbs... so you know who also plays remarkably similar to Chroma? Rhino. Honestly, your statement would fit better on Valkyr or even Garuda. Chroma could benefit from being more than a mere number cruncher; something to stand apart with.

Please don't lean on what is not actually there.

[(PSN)keilnealquan]

I had an idea for a rework for Chroma check it out and maybe up vote it if you like it. That is if that actually is how these forums actually work lol.

 

[maddragonmaster]

14 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

He doesn't "need" to be changed at all (none of the warframes "need" to be changed), as far as the game is concerned he is already doing more than enough. And it is not implied that he can not or should not.

Why? The main effect that anyone cares about for team support is one half of the Vex calculation (the Fury buff to be clear) which has little to no indication that is easily noticeable from a distance and is not affected by color anyway. Besides that, only Heat and Toxin are not "easily" distinguishable from afar (partly because they are similar animations; Heat flows out while Toxin flows in) with a locked in animation range (those particular effects/functions are not affected range aka share range is already invisible). Since that is the only team based elemental interaction (since we don't have a special combo system set up on procs) what color anything else is is irrelevant to the team as far as gameplay goes.

They could simply make a more distinct animation if it matters so much. But we are already ignoring that because everything is Aura type (a relatively small area at that) and is pressured to not make it larger just to keep him competitive.

Most people aren't advocating for complex shifting. Just simple access. Even so... the main simplicity in Chroma is still Vex which never changes in any form. Vauban and Ivara are not complex because of their "ability swap" mechanics; they feel complex because their tactics don't allow for mistakes quite like Vex allows Chroma. With that said, swapping abilities is optional on any one of the frames in question. While I can certainly agree that "press vs hold" can get messy if you need to swap and use constantly but Chroma also has the beauty of having abilities that don't need to be used constantly.

In the hypothetical situation that DE only buffed damage on 1 and 4 and added a swap mechanic (on any of his abilities), you are basically complaining about an additional functionality you don't actually have to participate in. Vex is still going to do most the work regardless of your color/form whether you decide to change or not.

To you maybe. However none of his powers by themselves remove limbs... so you know who also plays remarkably similar to Chroma? Rhino. Honestly, your statement would fit better on Valkyr or even Garuda. Chroma could benefit from being more than a mere number cruncher; something to stand apart with.

Please don't lean on what is not actually there.

ok i have at least no rage or anxiety in my words as of right now and i will try at least in my power to not look like i am throwing a fit or make my stand point on this over complex. but the reason vauban and maybe ivara (don't know how popular she is) is in the rework chop block list is as i can remember is that vauban which i know is used less. at least from the way i look from my reason i don't play with ivera and vauban is that 1. there too much of a hassle to farm for me. 2. their swap abilities make them over complex to remember since rather then just 4 abilities you have abilities you need to balance when you build you kit you have 7 for vauban and 9 for ivara. and the 3rd reason is.... their kit primarily contains cc abilities which if you remember cc abilities are nearly useless. the way this game is built and maintained and the way this game is played makes the use of cc abilities near to completely useless. the only times were you can successfully use cc is when you either solo or if you choose to create a private team instance were you can have control over what the other players choose in oder to make cc be of use. and this can be taken into extent to status effects or for at least the basic elements heat, cold, electric, and toxin these 4 elements compared to the other ones like corrosive, radiation, viral, or gass, and to an extent slash make them feel like they are hardly of any use.

so tell me what will this do if chroma was effectively reworked with elemental swap mechanic in his ability pool, and have the rest of the game remain the way it is and players still value high damage weapons and frames.

ok now that i have said that i will go for some simple suggestions that some people that can play chroma will like. turn his spectral scream into an exalted beam weapon, change effigy into a duration ability, and  allow vex armor to be charged so you can at least charge your scion or your armor part of the buff when your missing the shields. here are some small suggestions and i haven't thought of anything simple for elemental ward, but i would suggest that chroma's energy color= element be kept as a default option and just give the player the option to choose a different element if they are unsatisfied with it while they are in the orbiter.  

i do have a maybe less simple idea for elemental ward but i was thinking that it could work like this. heat increase max health and adds a little bit of armor and or gives a regenerative effect on chroma and other frames near him, cold increases armor the most and also gives a bit of health, electric increase shields and shield regeneration while increasing damage strength, toxin increases finisher damage and adds a camouflage effect making enemies have a difficult time spotting chroma.  its just an idea and i am not sure how effective it would be. the way i thought of it was to try to make this ability make chroma be able to be a jack of trades but then again this goes against the idea i have of imagining chroma as a simplistic berserker type character or like a typical anime character where they get heavily beat up and down the place by the villain only for them to stand back up and then proceed to beat the snot out of the villain after the villain had his fun.

i don't know how much of chroma you play so i wont judge how much you play of him. but i will say that i play him so much that if i was to try playing another frame other then him i might not be able to change the most used frame thing for at least a year i think. besides stoping to try the new flavor of frame i just select my chroma prime as because i  am already familiar with him. i even bought the chroma prime effigy access because i have dragons and dinosaurs on the brain all the time. i can notice any dragon or dinosaur that i seen in a game or in a movie i seen. i have alduin image burnt into my skull, i can reconise draco from dragon heart, i have blue and the indoraptor stun in my mind from the jurasic world and jurasic world fallen kindom. i am begining to get dragon's dogma's grigori stuck in my brain. anything that looks like a dragon or has a title similar to it will be easy to bring up in my mind.

Edited December 21, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[ZodiacShinryu]

7 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

but the reason vauban and maybe ivara (don't know how popular she is) is in the rework chop block list

I don't remember Ivara being in a rework queue. Ivara is actually in a really good spot. She has 7 abilities (ignoring PvP) however She only has 4 that she will use constantly. Her set powers we can ignore because they are set. Now Quiver has 4 arrows but only 1 that is less situational. Noise (the worst) gathers enemies but only works if they are unalert. The arrow has no use outside stealth which you wont see outside Spy or solo. Zipwire has no duration attached to it (I think there is a wire count though) so you place Zipwire where ever you want vertical advantages and you only need to do it once (before fighting even). A less frequent arrow and only if you want that verticality in the first place or out of combat transversals). Clock arrow is situational. If you play solo (or solo-like in a squad) her other set ability Prowl will invalidate the need for cloak because they both make you invisible (and Prowl does way more bonuses). Unless you don't want the drain from Prowl or not supporting others or some objectives Cloak isn't needed often. Leaving Sleep arrows being your generalist choice just for CC and opening finishers. Most the time you would be on Sleep only swapping as the need or desire arises... the key theme 'flexibility'. There is no reason to constantly be using them all.

Now I have heard "rumors" DE might go visit Vauban again but its not because of Minelayer (alone) or that he is complex (he is actually probably too simple). Its because abilities all do the same thing. Tesla could very well be rolled into Minelayer and no one would blink any eye; in fact Tesla with an augment functions a lot like his Tripmine. Then there is Bastille and Vortex which also do just about the same thing except Bastille breaks a lot not doing what it says even more noticeable with the augment and Vortex is a more preferred version of Bastille but covers less ground. Simply his 1 and 2 do the same thing and his 3 and 4 do the same thing. Then there is, as you brought up, the less robust need for CC (unless you dive deep into endless). He has a lot of these "trapper" like qualities but his abilities don't function like traps because they are active as you use them not delayed through trigger proximity. Then there is just the playerbase desire to add to him like any other frame.

8 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

so tell me what will this do if chroma was effectively reworked with elemental swap mechanic in his ability pool, and have the rest of the game remain the way it is and players still value high damage weapons and frames.

I am not sure what you're asking me exactly. A simple swap mechanic just gives him flexibility that is with the players control at any give point. Outside of re-tuning Cold from the ground up having access to the swap means Chroma can react to the battle instantaously. Perhaps the squad you get matched with is good at locking down the map. You certainly don't need Heat, Cold or Electric if you aren't constantly going to be damaged so you could go Toxin and increase/support your gunplay. Maybe that balance changes after squad member leaves or dies for whatever reason, then you can go Heat to boost your survivability (maybe simplify that revive). Maybe you then decide you don't need all of the survivability and decide to be a little aggressive with Electric. The point is you can feel out the pace of the scenario then decide how you want to handle it. You DON'T ever need to abort (or think extremely in advance) the mission should the color you pick not fit in the random factors you may be handed through matchmaking or if you simply forget to change your loadout. Ultimately Vex is going to keep Chroma where he is regardless of what happens (unless they also retune Vex). Otherwise if you are saying because the game doesn't pressure him that much outside just soaking and dealing damage; I mean, I have always said the game is too straight forward. Onslaught, and Open World bounties (sort of) have probably been the biggest relief in a more varied mission setting even if I think they didn't push it far/hard enough.

8 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

ok now that i have said that i will go for some simple suggestions that some people that can play chroma will like. turn his spectral scream into an exalted beam weapon, change effigy into a duration ability, and  allow vex armor to be charged so you can at least charge your scion or your armor part of the buff when your missing the shields.

I have myself made or have seen these suggestions before but none of them particularly mean Chroma can't also have a swap mechanic. This isn't an 'this or that' situation.

8 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

but i would suggest that chroma's energy color= element be kept as a default option and just give the player the option to choose a different element if they are unsatisfied with it while they are in the orbiter.  

If you are going to separate the color from the element for choice sake, that is just one less reason to keep in locked in it. I am not saying I agree it should be locked to color but restricting him because of that limitation makes more sense than restricting him without it.

I mean it would likely remain as the function of the way the game decides how to start the mission in what form. Much like Equinox has a color value that decides whether you start Day or Night form but it doesn't matter after that.

8 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

the way i thought of it was to try to make this ability make chroma be able to be a jack of trades but then again this goes against the idea i have of imagining chroma as a simplistic berserker type character or like a typical anime character where they get heavily beat up and down the place by the villain only for them to stand back up and then proceed to beat the snot out of the villain after the villain had his fun.

Except the "simplistic berserker" is all done through the effects of Vex which has nothing to do with the Elemental portion of his being. He will always fill that role as long as Vex is separated like it currently is (it is his fundamental basic role). His elemental role, and by extension the ability to swap, gives him flexibility and variance through which he could possibly react. They are more akin to his personality/mood.

8 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

i don't know how much of chroma you play so i wont judge how much you play of him.

I mean its all relative. I have played for 5 years. I played more often early on than I currently do. I have probably played Chroma 90% of the time since his Prime and fairly often before than (really spiked with the release of PoE and Zaw Exodias). He has been conceptually my favorite frame since his release and I see all kinds of potential in him. I have had 3 different Chromas for build variety. Even so my sheer amount of play time in like the 2 years before his release has put Frost Prime to statistical levels that wont be overtaken for a long time with work. I mean I like Frost but you wouldn't be able to guess I like Chroma more by simply looking at my profile.

[maddragonmaster]

9 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I am not sure what you're asking me exactly. A simple swap mechanic just gives him flexibility that is with the players control at any give point. Outside of re-tuning Cold from the ground up having access to the swap means Chroma can react to the battle instantaously. Perhaps the squad you get matched with is good at locking down the map. You certainly don't need Heat, Cold or Electric if you aren't constantly going to be damaged so you could go Toxin and increase/support your gunplay. Maybe that balance changes after squad member leaves or dies for whatever reason, then you can go Heat to boost your survivability (maybe simplify that revive). Maybe you then decide you don't need all of the survivability and decide to be a little aggressive with Electric. The point is you can feel out the pace of the scenario then decide how you want to handle it. You DON'T ever need to abort (or think extremely in advance) the mission should the color you pick not fit in the random factors you may be handed through matchmaking or if you simply forget to change your loadout. Ultimately Vex is going to keep Chroma where he is regardless of what happens (unless they also retune Vex). Otherwise if you are saying because the game doesn't pressure him that much outside just soaking and dealing damage; I mean, I have always said the game is too straight forward. Onslaught, and Open World bounties (sort of) have probably been the biggest relief in a more varied mission setting even if I think they didn't push it far/hard enough.

what i am getting at is that cc is useless in general play. and his range and to a degree the strength of these buffs are worthless. especial toxin why use toxin when you can just throw in a mod for what toxin does and the mod will do better heck if you get a riven then it makes toxin moot, and cold as you said doesn't really benefit much anyways, and electricity just boost shields which shields are just terrible in general, and as people mentioned before heat is at least decent. and again why have these buffs when there is a frame out their or currently being developed that could do these buffs better?

9 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I have myself made or have seen these suggestions before but none of them particularly mean Chroma can't also have a swap mechanic. This isn't an 'this or that' situation.

the part that you comment isn't me giving a reason to prevent a swap mechanic. 

9 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Except the "simplistic berserker" is all done through the effects of Vex which has nothing to do with the Elemental portion of his being. He will always fill that role as long as Vex is separated like it currently is (it is his fundamental basic role). His elemental role, and by extension the ability to swap, gives him flexibility and variance through which he could possibly react. They are more akin to his personality/mood.

it's not just his vex armor that has this berserker feel. remember the old depictions of berserkers using bear or other animals pelts to in a sense fight like a bear, or any other animals? and what does chroma have? a pelt that in a sense is a dragon. in a way he is channeling the powers and ferocity of a dragon into himself. besides besides i would find it too much off an effort to juggle elements for what chroma is mainly used for. 

and again why bother with a elemental swap mechanic if it is overall useless. cc is not great in this game and swapping mechanics are horribly annoying in this game at stretching past 4. i can see vaubans having 3 swap able gadgets but thats just stretches it, 2 is the ideal number for a swapping mechanic in this kind of game, 4 and on is terrible and there is bound to be a few of them that is useless.

and look this is not me just hating swapping mechanic i just see issues in it. and there is the fact i fear the fact of forcing the focus more on support will just make everyone view him as a useless support. mean he offers very little on support so why try and enforce him to do something his kit just isn't capable to handle without forcing a 360 flip on his abilities. his 2 is the only one that could benefit from this element swap, while his 1, 3, and 4 has no benefit for the use of a element swap. and the only way that i can be ok or that can justify having a elemental swap mechanic is if they increase the amount of crossfire missions and possible add a open world map with crossfires in mind..... hey that idea kind of makes me actually would like a elemental swap mechanic. but heck if a crossfire map/ add more crossfire missions then the chances are they might find a necessity to find a way to swap builds in these crossfire events.

[ZodiacShinryu]

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

what i am getting at is that cc is useless in general play.

Depends on what parameters you put on "useless". CC does exactly what it needs to do no matter the enemy statistical curve. Whether or not the player "needs" it is a different aspect. The purpose of CC is to delay the enemy until you can deal with them (or retreat). There are many players that "need" CC pre Sortie. There are players that do not. It depends on the player's own choices. Would I say "useless"... absolutely not. Within the general bounds of the game over time relative of play time then it becomes unnecessary in the short term.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

and his range and to a degree the strength of these buffs are worthless

Range is a simple statistical value to tweak. Ward should really be base 25m like 95% of all other team buffs abilities anyway. I am still taken aback that DE gave Vex a slightly larger base range at 18m (Ward is 12m) given that Vex itself is more valuable than Ward in of itself. Other than Cold needing to be redone and perhaps another perk on Toxin/Elec the statistical values Ward are fine (as it currently is). A better way to replenish shields on Elec to make better use of its mechanic would be great but Adaptation also boosts the effectiveness of shields (like any other basic DR). You could also react to your allies (in matchmaking) by switching to Elec when a support frame (like Mag for shields or Trinity for DR) to make better use of it.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

especial toxin why use toxin when you can just throw in a mod for what toxin does and the mod will do better heck if you get a riven then it makes toxin moot

Why use Heat or Cold when you can just put on a mod to get those effects? The point of having it on the kit is to give you the flexibility to not need to use mod space for it. You can then use that mod space for other things or you can double up for even more potent result. The key is choice. I am not going to say I am a fan of Toxin but its not as bad you make it sound.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

again why have these buffs when there is a frame out their or currently being developed that could do these buffs better?

Why does everything have to be a contest with another frame? It is a surprise everyone doesn't just play the top 4 meta frames. In Chroma's case having possible access to them all is a pretty big deal in itself.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

it's not just his vex armor that has this berserker feel. remember the old depictions of berserkers using bear or other animals pelts to in a sense fight like a bear, or any other animals? and what does chroma have? a pelt that in a sense is a dragon. in a way he is channeling the powers and ferocity of a dragon into himself. besides besides i would find it too much off an effort to juggle elements for what chroma is mainly used for. 

Nothing proposed changes his basic gameplay. Nothing proposed is changing his look/model. Nothing proposed is suggesting you need to juggle anything or play him differently unless you want to.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

and look this is not me just hating swapping mechanic i just see issues in it. and there is the fact i fear the fact of forcing the focus more on support will just make everyone view him as a useless support.

He is not going to become more support with a swap as long as Vex is the way it is, even with a swap. Besides he is more likely to become more support if you want them to buff his Wards.

[maddragonmaster]

On 2018-12-22 at 1:05 PM, ZodiacShinryu said:

Depends on what parameters you put on "useless". CC does exactly what it needs to do no matter the enemy statistical curve. Whether or not the player "needs" it is a different aspect. The purpose of CC is to delay the enemy until you can deal with them (or retreat). There are many players that "need" CC pre Sortie. There are players that do not. It depends on the player's own choices. Would I say "useless"... absolutely not. Within the general bounds of the game over time relative of play time then it becomes unnecessary in the short term.

Range is a simple statistical value to tweak. Ward should really be base 25m like 95% of all other team buffs abilities anyway. I am still taken aback that DE gave Vex a slightly larger base range at 18m (Ward is 12m) given that Vex itself is more valuable than Ward in of itself. Other than Cold needing to be redone and perhaps another perk on Toxin/Elec the statistical values Ward are fine (as it currently is). A better way to replenish shields on Elec to make better use of its mechanic would be great but Adaptation also boosts the effectiveness of shields (like any other basic DR). You could also react to your allies (in matchmaking) by switching to Elec when a support frame (like Mag for shields or Trinity for DR) to make better use of it.

Why use Heat or Cold when you can just put on a mod to get those effects? The point of having it on the kit is to give you the flexibility to not need to use mod space for it. You can then use that mod space for other things or you can double up for even more potent result. The key is choice. I am not going to say I am a fan of Toxin but its not as bad you make it sound.

Why does everything have to be a contest with another frame? It is a surprise everyone doesn't just play the top 4 meta frames. In Chroma's case having possible access to them all is a pretty big deal in itself.

Nothing proposed changes his basic gameplay. Nothing proposed is changing his look/model. Nothing proposed is suggesting you need to juggle anything or play him differently unless you want to.

He is not going to become more support with a swap as long as Vex is the way it is, even with a swap. Besides he is more likely to become more support if you want them to buff his Wards.

look i am pretty sure that my issues or worries of adding an elemental swap into the current way will make it seem more pointless then if it was to at least wait till their is a proper way of allowing a frame to adapt or swap abilities in mid mission. as i said before having a large map with crossfire with 2 opposing factions fighting it out while we and the group we are trying to protect. 

but in all honestly right now i just prefer to have the preparation done before the mission i go to then to have to try adapt on the fly in missions that don't really give the need to adapt and swap out elements for chroma. my gameplay seriously starts to tank when i have to worry about to trying to adapt to many things in a game that isn't optimized for allowing players to adapt and has trouble trying to figure out good or decent ways for a player to try to have a frame with adaptable abilities that exceed more then 2.  seriously why try and bother tripping over a cloak, noise, or sleep arrow in a mission that doesn't fit the need of it anyways? and for fack sakes why would you even bother messing with the dang bounce pad when it is worthless and extremely annoying?! (can you see the fact that i hate bonce pads because of those little bursa moa abominations of shear annoyance) 

anyways i just don't like of the existence of swapping mechanics in a in mission or on ground setting just by the look of the other frames and the fact i don't want to mess with button tapping or key holding in order to use a dang ability as of currently the games way of handling difficulty is pumping out more and more mobs while increasing the mobs health, armor, shields, and damage. can you imagine trying to mess with a swapping mechanic for at least a second to half a second in a survival mission that exceeds 100 level enemies?

[maddragonmaster]

look. currently at this past week my stress levels are through the roof out of game situations. and i have said what in what way would of made me accept a elemental swapping mechanic yet this is not in the game and there is only one loose reason to argue about adding elemental swapping which is the buffs, and thats not a good enough reason for me. why bother swapping elements when we mostly fight 1 faction 90% of the time and the enemies in that faction has the same resistances, why bother when all of the basic element damage and statuses aren't at the same range as the dual  elements and slash damage and status. why bother with any cc potential when the only way to access the higher level enemies is through sorties and those arbitration that which throws little annoying robots that enemies invincible and  makes rounds last till 10 mins, 10 waves, and 2 rounds and then makes them take for #*!%ing ever and then has the no bleedouts and one life thing to were i can't play with my friend because he has a low end computer  and he will die frequently. do you think we will have enough time to cycle the dang 4 elements correctly while some of us is more concerned with keeping a dang eye on vex armors buff so those dang mobs wont kill us by just starring us to death?

Edited December 28, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[maddragonmaster]

ok i am sorry for triple posting and for stressing the heck out of elemental swap. this week was a bit eventful the buildup tension of christmas and an additional stress of forgetting to shave and going to work only to find out i wasn't expected to work on this week or maybe the next because they are in the slow part of the year.  

but anyways  i am sorry. i just don't find there to be anything in the game currently that encourages the ability to adapt on the fly.  i would be comfortable with an elemental swap mechanic if it was to include a steady pattern of the need to adapt. not to the point i am changing my elements every 1-3 seconds just a slow pace of maybe at one point or at the half way point.

and if is what you do have in mind then OK then i over reacted and made a mountain of a mole hill. but i just want to be comfortable with the element of choice i have.

also if i could think of ways to include elemental swapping one would be to add more crossfires and maybe at some point make at least a crossfire event for each thats a bit frequent were either grineer invade orb vallis or corpus invade the plains.  and these ideas are the ones i feel comfortable with.

[ZodiacShinryu]

9 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

but in all honestly right now i just prefer to have the preparation done before the mission i go to then to have to try adapt on the fly in missions that don't really give the need to adapt and swap out elements for chroma. my gameplay seriously starts to tank when i have to worry about to trying to adapt to many things in a game that isn't optimized for allowing players to adapt and has trouble trying to figure out good or decent ways for a player to try to have a frame with adaptable abilities that exceed more then 2.  seriously why try and bother tripping over a cloak, noise, or sleep arrow in a mission that doesn't fit the need of it anyways? and for fack sakes why would you even bother messing with the dang bounce pad when it is worthless and extremely annoying?! (can you see the fact that i hate bonce pads because of those little bursa moa abominations of shear annoyance) 

anyways i just don't like of the existence of swapping mechanics in a in mission or on ground setting just by the look of the other frames and the fact i don't want to mess with button tapping or key holding in order to use a dang ability as of currently the games way of handling difficulty is pumping out more and more mobs while increasing the mobs health, armor, shields, and damage. can you imagine trying to mess with a swapping mechanic for at least a second to half a second in a survival mission that exceeds 100 level enemies?

Just to keep this short... the disconnect I am having with your concerns is that you frame it such that "swap equals forced use". Swapping skills, on any frame, is merely an option. You are free to prepare before the mission and not swap a single time, it is not a required action. You don't need to cycle each time as you only just need to activate it again. A swap on the basic level (which is honestly like 90% of the people that request a swap mechanic) doesn't change a single aspect on how Chroma plays in general. What it does do however is open him up to choice, correct mistakes simply, and micromanage if you so choose. If you don't want to do any of that you are free to just not participate in the swap mechanic, just like Ivara, Vauban, Khora, or Equinox can just ignore those aspects. They work exactly the same. But I have already highlighted instances where a swap might be beneficial that happen in real time in a mission. Where Chroma has flexibility to do whatever he wants because right now you just deal with it because you have no other choice. Simply, a swap in of it self does nothing unless you want to use it. So if the biggest concern is YOU don't want to use it because XYZ (button troubles, unneeded, playstyle preference, etc) then you don't particularly need to worry much because it is entirely optional and really doesn't affect you, however adding it anyway lets people who actually want to make use of those flexibilities as they want, they can do that.

10 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

look i am pretty sure that my issues or worries of adding an elemental swap into the current way will make it seem more pointless then if it was to at least wait till their is a proper way of allowing a frame to adapt or swap abilities in mid mission. as i said before having a large map with crossfire with 2 opposing factions fighting it out while we and the group we are trying to protect. 

This is a "chicken or egg" scenario. It doesn't particularly matter which one came first because in the end one of them leads/lends to the other. In this situation, there isn't are concern connected to which DE does first (or at all really). DE isn't going to make a swap on Chroma then base the rest of the game design around it. In that same breathe they aren't going to think a lot about Chroma just because they vary up a mission. The swap in itself isn't reactionary to enemy presence as much as it is a tool you wield to manipulate the environment. If you don't need to change then you don't have to... unless you want to.

10 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

can you imagine trying to mess with a swapping mechanic for at least a second to half a second in a survival mission that exceeds 100 level enemies?

I mean I already do... all the way up to like 300 (I honestly don't have the appetite to go that far even very often). The way the game itself is set up  already pressures you to go from any element to Toxin the longer you play anyway. Unless you mean constantly swap then no... but why would you constantly need to swap?

[maddragonmaster]

7 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Just to keep this short... the disconnect I am having with your concerns is that you frame it such that "swap equals forced use". Swapping skills, on any frame, is merely an option. You are free to prepare before the mission and not swap a single time, it is not a required action. You don't need to cycle each time as you only just need to activate it again. A swap on the basic level (which is honestly like 90% of the people that request a swap mechanic) doesn't change a single aspect on how Chroma plays in general. What it does do however is open him up to choice, correct mistakes simply, and micromanage if you so choose. If you don't want to do any of that you are free to just not participate in the swap mechanic, just like Ivara, Vauban, Khora, or Equinox can just ignore those aspects. They work exactly the same. But I have already highlighted instances where a swap might be beneficial that happen in real time in a mission. Where Chroma has flexibility to do whatever he wants because right now you just deal with it because you have no other choice. Simply, a swap in of it self does nothing unless you want to use it. So if the biggest concern is YOU don't want to use it because XYZ (button troubles, unneeded, playstyle preference, etc) then you don't particularly need to worry much because it is entirely optional and really doesn't affect you, however adding it anyway lets people who actually want to make use of those flexibilities as they want, they can do that.

ok understandable and on some good days i can agree with  this, i just only have an issue with tripping over the swapping mechanic when trying to access elemental war or spectral scream if it is attached to one of these abilities. example if it is to tap to switch elements i  would need to hold 2 for a second or more, if it is hold to instant cycle then i would have to learn to both time it carefully. the only way i can think of this being done properly is to either have the swapping mechanic like this: have the swapping mechanic be a special interaction with the gear wheel, or hold 2 for 1-1.5 seconds or how long it is needed to at  least to be able to register it  as a regular activation or a swap mode and then press 1 2 3 or 4 to select which element. if this idea seems slower then maybe have the element ward be reapplied when switching. and while we are at it give element ward the ability to refresh like vex armor maybe give heat a regen, cold half and half health and armor or physical damage resistance, electric faster shield recovery and shields or elemental damage resistance, and well i always thought of either adding a slight camouflage ability to toxin or add attack speed to it or something for melee.

7 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

This is a "chicken or egg" scenario. It doesn't particularly matter which one came first because in the end one of them leads/lends to the other. In this situation, there isn't are concern connected to which DE does first (or at all really). DE isn't going to make a swap on Chroma then base the rest of the game design around it. In that same breathe they aren't going to think a lot about Chroma just because they vary up a mission. The swap in itself isn't reactionary to enemy presence as much as it is a tool you wield to manipulate the environment. If you don't need to change then you don't have to... unless you want to.

well the idea wasn't just for to have game designed to be based on just chroma with a elemental swap though i did say it would make me feel more comfortable with the idea. the general idea is to in a sense give us a reason to adapt without making a metaphorical speed bump. and maybe a little thing they could add in these crossfire areas is a gear that allows us to switch builds the current weapons we have here is an example ( your using a build thats mores focused on grineer and then your bounty tells you to go to the corpus sided you then go to the edge of the corpus sided use the gear item and then boom you weapons now fit for corpus battle.) then again i afraid this idea might be a little hypocritical coming from me.

and again i am sorry if i can't correctly get my ideas out in words properly. its a little bit difficult for me to get the idea out and i tend to get frustrated when i feel like i didn't properly explain it.