Chroma needs a rework

[(PSN)xtharbadx]

Is it usual that DE will rework a frame when releasing its new Prime version?

I haven't been here long enough, but never seen that. Seems that Prime releases have nothing to do with reworks as far as I can see.

Also, personal opinion, Chroma is actually pretty good. There are several frames that could probably use a rework much more than Chroma does.

 

[DrBorris]

One of the things I think both of us missed originally is how bland Chroma's role is in the rework you first posted. Yea, he buffs the team, but that's it. He was great at buffing, don't get me wrong, but just being a buff frames does not leave much for gameplay or interesting synergies.

 

That change to Vex Armor though, now that is an interesting addition. Turning Chroma into the cornerstone that holds to team together, effectively becoming what looks like the best 'defender' of other Warframes in the game (although I am not sure about 100% damage transfer, maybe 95%?). Frost can defend a point, Trin can heal, but with Chroma the team just doesn't die. I stand by my thought that Vex Armor's damage boost should be nerfed if it was still a team buff, but if it is changed back to a buff for only Chroma? Yeah, give him all the damage, 320% is fine.

The energy reduction on Vex Armor and Elemental Ward is a nice point of synergy given you should have them both active at the same time anyway. With all of the changes together, having them be two separate abilities is fair.

In addition, allowing Effigy to act as another point of defense opens you up to not have to baby sit your team. And assuming the damage reduction ling of Vex Armor also applies to Effigy, it would be an amazing defensive ability for your team while you go off and kill stuff. Being able to effectively be in two places at once would make Effigy a core part of playing with Chroma.

 

Edit: That was too much nice stuff, I need to criticism something. Hmmm...

Now that I look at it again, that passive is a bit questionable. It is thematic, sure, but as Chroma you are not really wanting to CC enemies, if anything you want them shooting at you. It has pretty much no synergy at all with his kit. What about this:

Team Rage: Chroma regenerates energy for any health damage taken to himself or allies within 25 meters. Has a 15% conversion ratio. (For reference, Rage is 40%)

 

50 minutes ago, ColdCremator said:

Here's the issue with this: Amp and Vex Armor are additive to damage multipliers such as Serration, Hornet Strike, etc, whereas Rhino's Roar, Nova's MP and Nezha's BC marks are multiplicative after all other calculations. You need a high base damage multiplier to rival a multiplicative at end function, and it requires more unique builds centered around maximizing elemental damage to bring the most out of such a buff. If Vex Armor was made multiplicative like it used to be then it would be much more flexible, but it was nerfed for the very reason of forcing a DPS meta with Eidolons despite both you and I feeling balance around a specific boss is unwise. However, I do understand that he did trivialize the Eidolons back then but since his nerf ended up bringing Rhino and Ivara, of all Warframes, to the spotlight as DPS replacements I don't mind it too much.

I know Vex Armor and Amp are additive, that's why I compared them...

A 200% damage boost is more than double damage still. Roar is only a 50% boost at base and Molecular Prime is locked at double damage with no way to increase it. I completely disagree that Vex Armor should be made multiplicative, that is just asking for trouble, it is much easier to keep things balanced with additive scaling.

And yes, it was nerfed 'because' of Eidolons, but if you are trying to defend having upwards of 6x damage on a single ability that stacks multiplicity with other abilities then I don't know what to say. Chroma was a little 'OP' everywhere, he just did not get much notice because getting a kitted out Chroma is a large investment. And even with this inferior additive scaling, Chroma still is mathematically the best DPS frame for Eidolons.

Edited September 25, 2018 by DrBorris

[Shanoo]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

you did not give a Rework to one of the most loved warframe of all

Perhaps this is one of the main reasons to not priorize its rework before others or other fixes and content (i.e. Fortuna).

Apart from that Chroma was the ultimately best warframe for any weapon user before its nerf and packed a load of survivability.

Chroma can do a lot of things, dish out some serious weapon damage, take quite a punch and still have some support, while other warframes often fulfill only one of those roles.

Imho it's still in a good spot compared to most other frames.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 14 minutes, (XB1)TRL kaldwin a dit :

For a long time the players who use this warframe were waiting for its first version and hoped that an appropriate Rework would arrive with it too.
But obviously not.
It is really a shame that even for the release of its first version you did not give a Rework to one of the most loved warframe of all.

You mean "Prime" version, not "First". If you're saying that it's his "first variant", mind telling us where it was stated that Chroma would get a third version?

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

4 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

You mean "Prime" version, not "First". If you're saying that it's his "first variant", mind telling us where it was stated that Chroma would get a third version?

Yes, sorry, I mean prime, my bad 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Chroma could have used some tweaking, but it's not the end of the world. he's in a better place than some other frames, his prime looks pretty good and he came with some nice weapons. 

here's hoping for Mesa Prime for the holidays, right @(XB1)RDeschain82?

[maddragonmaster]

26 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Now that sounds boring heh-heh.

They don't know the difference because there isn't any. It is perspective of the person speaking at the time no matter where you place a point. First, right now people bicker about the elements. Basically if you are playing higher level content and not on Heat (maybe it isn't something you run into because of your "sick fire dragon theme") you are playing subpar and some people will go out of their way to let you know. In general most people wont care simply because as you say the elemental aspects aren't great or a main attraction. You have DE specialize Chroma's elements THERE WILL BE clear winners and losers (without a swap function) it is unavoidable, and people will let you know. Just an exaggerated extension of what is currently going on. So you should stop caring what a random joe tells you what to do and just show them up because they can't be that great if they feel the need to go out of the way to instruct you on something so trivial. The swap mechanic is, at its basic foundation, there to allow you any flexibility you want.

Secondly, I am usually the pessimistic one but attributing a terrible kit to the swap mechanic is pretty low. But I can play that game too. What if they specialize him and he kit is still terrible and boring? Then I am holding you responsible. See what I did there?

As much as everyone one just wants to boil down my thoughts on the subject to just a simple swap mechanic that is far from the truth even though if I had a choice between nothing and a basic swap I would take the swap without hesitation. Ideally his swap mechanic should be greater than the sum of its parts. A interaction and synergy within his kit that grants an incentive to swap for greater efficacy. I personally see it as a way for Chroma to have access to all the elemental damage type and become a status machine. Crippling and exploiting enemy weakness through damage types and procs.

"ideally" what could up ending happening is. crappy cooldown on swapping, crappy button reaction, zero reasoning of improving elemental ward, elemental ward deactivation when selecting ability, not enough reasoning outside of buffs. just because you think elemental swapping fine and dandy on paper could end up being poorly implemented. 

also again mobs are weak to certain elements and there is no benifit on using multiple status. and you going on the ideal things to benifit on elemental swapping, and not thinking about things that can go wrong. we need to frame not to be tied to too many support abilities in order for his kit to feel more fluid. he is trying to off too many stuff at the table to the point were the stuff he is offering is diluted as crap and adding an elemental swap could dilute the stuff he offers. 

 just cause de gave the other frames an ability that cycles function doesn't mean that chroma needs have it to be better. there is severally more better options to do before falling to the elemental swap idea. in matter of fact i rather him keep the need having the element choice be done before the mission starts. that way there is no reason to keep the abilities at meh levels of usefulness. as i am sure having an elemental swap could encorage de to just add it in and ignore everything else. 

also element swapping is not the be all end all thing thats going to solve everything. it could just end up complicating  everything

Edited September 25, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[Hohstadt]

He only needs the drain on his effigy reduced by alot and upgrade the damage on his 1and 4. everyone calm your sharktits.

[Orblit]

29 minutes ago, WutsKraken said:

He did that much damage and took that little damage for YEARS. Given how much more powerful weapons became since he was released, tuning down his damage was inevitable, I just wish they would've just been honest and called it a nerf and not a "bugfix" and changed his 1 and 4 to compensate to work better with the rest of him

What's a bug and old vex armor have in common?

They both are unintentional and needed fixing.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

6 minutes ago, Shanoo said:

Perhaps this is one of the main reasons to not priorize its rework before others or other fixes and content (i.e. Fortuna).

Apart from that Chroma was the ultimately best warframe for any weapon user before its nerf and packed a load of survivability.

Chroma can do a lot of things, dish out some serious weapon damage, take quite a punch and still have some support, while other warframes often fulfill only one of those roles.

Imho it's still in a good spot compared to most other frames.

This is my reason, I said this because I tried with all the warframes to do different missions but each of them proved to be a better choice than Chroma. I'm not saying to bring everything back as before but only the armor bonus is (also because it's fun, not in a good sense, that Chroma resists as much excaliburumbra, if not less, if both resort to all their abilities, ahahah) obvious that, as I said, even a buff for the damage would be welcome. In short, I would like to use Chroma in high levels (for example: sortie) without seeing the life that falls to the peak and find myself constantly lifeless to jump madly everywhere in the map.  

[EinheriarJudith]

id also like to say no to elemental wheel. some of the things i dislike in this game is: channeled abilities, Wheel abilities, Charge abilities. something better can and should be used.

[NovusNova]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Can you source this? I recall them saying Chroma--along with other frames like Nyx and Trinity--was still on the chopping block for kit changes, after the changes earlier this year. But I could be remembering things out of order.

Saw people linking a facebook post previously and was pretty sure I heard either on Prime Time or Devstream.

[(PSN)GrahamMasterJ]

Just turn Effigy into a timed Pet that follows you around. Chroma is supposed to be like a Hunter of sorts right? He could be like a beast  master that has a pet that aids him in his kills. 

[BiancaRoughfin]

2 hours ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

Unbelievable.... I thought chroma prime was about to come with some changes to his skill set

Thought it wrong. At no moment did [DE] announce any changes/tweaks to him. They usually keep us up to date on possible changes with weeks of anticipation.

[Hohstadt]

Okay his 1 and 4 are amazingly cool looking and i'd love for them to be viable.

 

But other warframes also have abilitys you'd never use in a million years. ivaras 2, vaubans 1 and 2, excaliburs 3, mags 1, embers 4 and 1, ect.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Dark_Chroma:

If this happens the other EW buffs should be multiplicative too

sure but it depends how the actual elements will turn out. as its currently stands poison and electric have no synergy with vex armor. and fire is just indirectly multiplicative with vex armor because more health cales great with more armor.

so as said DE has to rework the elements

[(PSN)Poison___Insect]

Chroma prime was just released, and already people are screaming for a rework. Can you guys stop please? your filling the forums with stuff that isn't a real issue because at the end of the day only DE decides what needs a rework and not you.

[Kialandi]

Prime =/= Rework.

Rework =/= OP.

Is that really so difficult to understand?

 

Based on the info we got back in August Chroma sees more usage than Atlas, Gara, Harrow, Titania, Wukong, Vauban (including Prime), Nyx (including Prime). I think it's safe to say that Chroma is not in a terrible spot. He could be higher but we don't need another Saryn.

 

[Fishyflakes]

We've been asking for a rework for quite a while.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb maddragonmaster:

on top of that i want my element choice to MATTER. it is not going to matter if we just get a elemental swap ability and some things to encourage elemental swapping. in matter of fact why even bother with any element themed fashion if there is a stinking elemental swapping ability. i have made a sick fire dragon theme, so please tell me that theme wouldn't be ruined with the ability to choose any element. 

exactly - whats the point of changing the element in mission. the whole point is to prepare for a mission

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Hohstadt said:

Okay his 1 and 4 are amazingly cool looking and i'd love for them to be viable.

 

But other warframes also have abilitys you'd never use in a million years. ivaras 2, vaubans 1 and 2, excaliburs 3, mags 1, embers 4 and 1, ect.

Mags #1 is actually fan-freakin-tastic in many situation. It does more damage than you think when you actually need it. It is also very nifty on certain maps with edges and stuff. And Ember's 4 is a free layer of damage in most every situation.

The rest I agree with. I had even forgotten what Vaubans #2 was when I read it in your post, I went "wtf!? What is his #2!?", then it struck me "oh the S#&$ty mines".

Chroma could indeed use a change that makes his 1 and 4 worthwhile. Right now he's one of those primes I really dont care if I get or not.

[maddragonmaster]

1 minute ago, DeadlyCreation said:

exactly - whats the point of changing the element in mission. the whole point is to prepare for a mission

yes thanks.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

1 minute ago, Fishyflakes said:

We've been asking for a rework for quite a while.

This, his 1 is useless and his 4 could be somewhat improved aswell.

[(PSN)Poison___Insect]

2 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

We've been asking for a rework for quite a while.

and you think it will come with a prime access, they haven't talked about him getting reworked 

[Olphalarepth]

10 minutes ago, Hohstadt said:

Okay his 1 and 4 are amazingly cool looking and i'd love for them to be viable.

 

But other warframes also have abilitys you'd never use in a million years. ivaras 2, vaubans 1 and 2, excaliburs 3, mags 1, embers 4 and 1, ect.

 

Agreed on list of  SOME warframe skills that see little use (I consider excalibur 3 to be one of the most useless skill in the game if not to clear very low level trash) but the point is that, right now, Chroma is being primed. People can vote with their wallets and hyping for a new prime access for a frame that has no actual skill doesn't feel right.

The only viable skills are his 2 and 3 that are simple buffs, you play your frame like it has virtually nothing. No fireballs, no lightning bolts, no elemental aoe, no super cool looking move, nothing except a colored breath that can barely kill low level enemies and a strip tease that can kill enemies by making them laugh. Oh yeah, add the lack of an actual passive......

Edited September 25, 2018 by Olphalarepth