Chroma needs a rework

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

Just now, (PS4)Poison___Insect said:

but it was in the middle of a rework. you don't seem to be understanding that.

My point is that if there's a big enough amount of backlash from the community. DE will most likely listen and fix their mistake.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

here's hoping for Mesa Prime for the holidays, right @(XB1)RDeschain82?

With Orokin duster Prime.

[Yatazanami]

Just now, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

My point is that if there's a big enough amount of backlash from the community. DE will most likely listen and fix their mistake.

i am behind your point 100% ! lets keep this thread going .

[Birdframe_Prime]

[Sigh]

DE tweeted out weeks ago that they know Chroma needs a rework, but that he wasn't getting one for the Prime. There's more things on their plate right now, and there are frames that have been put in much worse positions just by the passage of time, rather than by the deliberate moves that DE have made.

In addition, Vex is exactly where they want it to be for now, try to think of buffs and rework ideas to his other abilities, a frame is more than just one skill.

But before Chroma gets anything, even a Prime Trailer, I would imagine that we'll see Fortuna, all the fixes around that, Melee 3.0, and reworks likely to Nyx and Wukong.

[Yatazanami]

1 minute ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

With Orokin duster Prime.

and lets use those guys to bump the thread , keep up the good work (both of you 👊)

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

4 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

i am behind your point 100% ! lets keep this thread going .

The community as a whole is going to need to band together in order for this to work. That means we're going to need more than a few chroma threads to invoke some change.

Edited September 25, 2018 by (XB1)ultamite hero

[Gofretko]

Learning of the new prime access, I watched a few videos of Chroma and was severely disappointed. First, a big nerf, secondly, abilities that either don't do much or are mandatory (buffs) and thirdly, lack of any variety in gameplay (save for picking different weapons -- but that applies to all Warframes).

Not saying he has to get reworks to pepper the prime deal but it seems apparent that some number tweaking was in order. And it didn't happen. Disappointing.

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

What I usually saw, including tact, was they took vigor.

XD See the following, he uses Arcanes instead:

Spoiler

 

But still, there is that simple point; being able to manage your damage taken to get the most out of your buffs, rather than relying on the enemy to do it is just straight-up better.

Reliability is what succeeds in games like Warframe, not just being able to hit hard or stay alive, but being able to do it consistently, every time. A sniper is an amazingly powerful weapon, but against AI that randomly paths through the map and has instant turning to move head hit-boxes out of line-of-fire between the time you can think 'click' and you actually firing the gun, it tends to not hit the headshots every single time, and either bodyshot or miss entirely. Consistency is key, and so being able to max out your buffs for Vex, before the change, was one of the key functions that really made sure you could keep going without having to risk a sniped one-shot in return.

[Squeekly]

I suggest 1 could be napalm based on elements. 

But I totally agree,  for as long as I can remember Warframes have been getting reworks, or tweaks before getting primed. 

Even Mirage got that not so totally needed addition to her ability. & she's notorious for getting weapons nerfed rather than herself. Aka the reason we can't have nice things. 

Both Hydroid and Oberon we're reworked to essential function the same way they already did,  but just made everything they do viable,  and scale better. As much as we love Pablo,  Chroma only needs some minor tweaks like them. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Squeekly

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I just want his 1st ability tweaked some and his 4th a little thats all a little change nothing major.

[maddragonmaster]

well anyways i know some people want an elemental swap mechanic in mission. and i might be unreasonably against it and what not. i just cannot accept that idea happening, and would rather see the individualization of the element be improved upon each element can stand on their own rather then throw a element wheel swapping mechanic as a shaky support structure. and  i do want chroma not to be known as a status machine. we allready have 4 frames that can embody their status elements. i want him to be know at least as the dragon knight or dragon berserker, depending on which sounds better. and i am sorry for my stubbornness i just want chroma more independent then some of the other frames.

[DrBorris]

Sigh.

Moderators, I get it, you have to keep the Forums organized. But merging threads where the OP is a rework, then the comments relate directly to the proposed rework, with a thread that is just "chroma needs a rework" is a sure fire way to kill productive conversations. These threads are about different things.

 

Now if someone wants to see concepts for Chroma reworks what are they supposed to do? Peruse through 25 pages? Then how are people supposed to have a coherent conversation when there are so many going on about different things in the same thread? Rip Chroma conversations for the next week or so until this thread dies. 

 

Having Warframe specific subforums would help with this issue, or at least a bit of restraint when merging threads and looking for context before merging. 

 

On topic: Just because a Warframe works and does a thing, it does not mean they are in a good place. Fine is not good enough, always strive for better. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Gofretko:

 (save for picking different weapons -- but that applies to all Warframes).

Save for picking weapons that provide consistent healing since you're gonna tank in any run that isn't eidolon and grace doesn't exactly cut it since his nerf... what's basicly reducing you to the hema, furis and melee - what does definitly not apply to all warframes ~

Dissapointing indeed. There's not a single actuall tank safe for chroma with no source of hp management other then weapons and pets. But hey, that's where DE want's him to be appearently... Lying on the floor, bleeding. Waiting for deaths sweet embrace.

Edited September 25, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Yatazanami]

7 hours ago, Lior55 said:

YES MY FELLOW CHROMARADE!!!

fixed that for you no need to thank me ^^

[maddragonmaster]

24 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Sigh.

Moderators, I get it, you have to keep the Forums organized. But merging threads where the OP is a rework, then the comments relate directly to the proposed rework, with a thread that is just "chroma needs a rework" is a sure fire way to kill productive conversations. These threads are about different things.

 

Now if someone wants to see concepts for Chroma reworks what are they supposed to do? Peruse through 25 pages? Then how are people supposed to have a coherent conversation when there are so many going on about different things in the same thread? Rip Chroma conversations for the next week or so until this thread dies. 

 

Having Warframe specific subforums would help with this issue, or at least a bit of restraint when merging threads and looking for context before merging. 

 

On topic: Just because a Warframe works and does a thing, it does not mean they are in a good place. Fine is not good enough, always strive for better. 

agreed with that. seems like chroma's outside of getting his time to prime isn't getting much love

[WutsKraken]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

Considering that that was the first time he was shown to be so overpowered against something the devs had actually endorsed as a challenge, is this so surprising?

The game isn't balanced around Endurance runs, after all.

Of course not, never claimed it was balanced around Endurance. I expected a nerf when Eidolons came out. But my grievance isn't that they nerfed him, it's that they claimed it a bug fix and they just essentially decided to leave him to rot. They gave Saryn a good rework, Nezha a FANTASTIC rework, Oberon a rework that went from garbage to FANTASTIC after a few more changes after feedback. But they left Chroma after taking away his one-trick

Raids, Acolytes, and Sorties were meant to be truly challenging content right? They were all available LONG before his nerf, they had plenty of time to observe that he was tearing through these enemies faster than Pre-rework Saryn and Mesa, yet they decided to leave him be. If it was really a bug, I think they should've fixed him long ago when he could 1-shot Sortie enemies with a Lato

[(PSN)randy_lahey__--]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Stronok said:

My fellow Tenno, the time has come for the rise of the new Chroma. The Devs on high have provided a new appearance, but as yet his power remains limited. With such frames as Nidus, Inaros and Rhino in the fold, so too must our Chroma frames weild the power. Once the Dragon lord stood proud, his Vex armour impenetrable, slaying hoards of Grineer and Corpus with the elemental ward, but no more. This dragon king has fallen from grace and must be restored to his former glory. Stand together with me Tennos so that the king may be great again. Call out in one voice so that the almighty Devs may hear... Rework Chroma.. Rework Chroma.. Rework Chroma ..! 

OH if THEY rework a perfectly MEDIOCER frame before my perfectly TERRABLE wukong ima be ANGRY. 

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

"ideally" what could up ending happening is. crappy cooldown on swapping, crappy button reaction, zero reasoning of improving elemental ward, elemental ward deactivation when selecting ability, not enough reasoning outside of buffs. just because you think elemental swapping fine and dandy on paper could end up being poorly implemented. 

That is not how you use "ideally". You list a bunch of things that could go wrong if implemented incorrectly. That is true of anything. Buff up a single Ward at a time and if implemented incorrectly, bad things happen anyway. The problem isn't the swap it is the implementation, they are separate issues. If we ever only think of what could go wrong how we manage to accomplish anything is a miracle in itself.

1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

also again mobs are weak to certain elements and there is no benifit on using multiple status.

There is always benefit to exploit weaknesses. There is limited benefit from using multiple status but that isn't the same as no benefit. Two mods deal directly with it COverload, Healing Return. The more status Chroma has access to the more useful those mods can become if the player so chooses to utilize them. Changing your CC sources also have some limited benefits.

1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

and you going on the ideal things to benifit on elemental swapping, and not thinking about things that can go wrong.

Excuse me? I speak of ideals because I am not the one that controls what happens. All I can do is lay out my thoughts as best I can so that if someone was to actually heed such a concept that they know what to aim for or things to base stuff off of. Frankly you assuming that I didn't think of things that could go wrong (not that you actually know who I am and my personality) is quite insulting. If you talked to anyone that knows me, they would laugh you out of the room. What you are illustrating is false equivalence. You can't get mad at a designer by only telling them what you don't want then still not get exactly what you want because you were specific enough on what you want. So I would be more wary of who you call short-sighted.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

we need to frame not to be tied to too many support abilities in order for his kit to feel more fluid. he is trying to off too many stuff at the table to the point were the stuff he is offering is diluted as crap and adding an elemental swap could dilute the stuff he offers. 

I can agree that Elemental Ward is bloated but you contradict yourself when you say too much support. He was always designed as single element a mission and this is still what you got. You currently have a single choice and it is still disjointed and lacking support functionality. The plurality you speak of never existed to balance against yet somehow they balanced him against himself on things he can't even access? That is pure idiocy. I think you misunderstand the intent.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

 just cause de gave the other frames an ability that cycles function doesn't mean that chroma needs have it to be better.

Sure but in that same breathe the reverse is also true. Perspective is important here.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

there is severally more better options to do before falling to the elemental swap idea.

Please feel free to enlighten us all and list them out. I am aware there are options but "better" is a matter of opinion.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

in matter of fact i rather him keep the need having the element choice be done before the mission starts. that way there is no reason to keep the abilities at meh levels of usefulness. as i am sure having an elemental swap could encorage de to just add it in and ignore everything else. 

You assume a lot of other people. But again, Chroma has always been one element based and your elemental wards are as you put it still "meh". They are "meh" for different reasons than to balance out his elements. Hint: It is his 3. But your free to have your own preference.

2 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

also element swapping is not the be all end all thing thats going to solve everything. it could just end up complicating  everything

Again, I never said elemental swapping solves everything Chroma. It is particularly my preference (and people that also agree) that it would cover up some of his issues and give more options and flexibility but it is far from everything I have said for Chroma. That isn't something you can simply dispute with "well there isn't a reason to use the other elements because they are meh". Because there are cases, I have listed them out before. It is also a separate issue from the elements could have another look over and updates.

However in (already) realizing that there will certainly be changes in skill floors and ceilings... god forbid players actually need to use their brains to do anything. Not that a basic wheel complicates anything at its base other than the delusions you allow yourself to believe.

---

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

id also like to say no to elemental wheel. some of the things i dislike in this game is: channeled abilities, Wheel abilities, Charge abilities. something better can and should be used.

Sure... but what are these better avenues? You mind sharing some thoughts on what you would want? It certainly couldn't be the "better" option where Chroma's color changes based on the lighting and environment he is in because of light refraction and phasing, could it?

2 hours ago, DeadlyCreation said:

exactly - whats the point of changing the element in mission. the whole point is to prepare for a mission

You can prepare for a mission and still swap elements. You do realize that this argument only seems sound because it has been what it is. We may as well separate Equinox, Ivara, Vauban (even though personally his minelayer was lacking to begin with), and Khora into their separate components and have them prepare before a mission too. With that, assuming there isn't a miracle rework of his 1 and 4, and ignoring Vex (the only reason to play Chroma other than looks); you can prepare for a mission by picking Frost, Ember/Nezha, Volt, Saryn, or Excalibur. They cover everything he does plus more.

I can understand your guys' position however unless you are willing to take another hit to Vex the likelihood Wards would be buffed to an adequate level are slim given Vex is equally powerful everywhere which gives him the majority of both his power and defenses. If we want to talk about balance giving him TWO god level buffs is crazy. The whole point of swapping at base is giving Chroma an edge that no one else has and flexibility and freedom. Frost can't suddenly make his damage Heat-based, nor can Volt make his Cold. By itself it isn't going to push Chroma to incredible heights but should that situation ever arrive Chroma would be a great pick. I mean the old disregarded Prosecutors on the shipyard would have been a great example of Chroma thriving (in an ideal reworked world) until they nerfed their defenses to make them easier for everyone in general.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Pablo

Oh where art thou St. Pablo, because the dragon needs you.

[WutsKraken]

Though the nerfhammer may have shattered his knees, the developers have left him to rot, and he was abandoned by most Tenno in favor of his younger, fancier brothers and sisters, we must not give up!

One day, St Pablo shall heal his knees, and our Lord and Savior shall return! And he shall gloriously lead the charge against the Grineer, Corpus, Infested, and Sentient Hordes at the tip of the spear of others blessed by St Pablo himself!

REWORK CHROMA!

[seprent]

this is all im seeing really nothing against you chroma players just idk its funny to me

but is really shouting rework chroma in a single thread really gunna change anything

1 hour ago, RoninJed said:

Why does NYX need a rework and who asked.

all the nyx players when revenant was being shown because alot of his abilities make her redundant and DE responded with they are looking into reworking her even had some stuff lined up with replacing her psychic bolts with a debuff ability and a few other things i cant really remember rn you can find it on one of the recent dev streams 

14 minutes ago, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- said:

OH if THEY rework a perfectly MEDIOCER frame before my perfectly TERRABLE wukong ima be ANGRY. 

alot on the dev's plate it seems from what ive gotten from the last few dev streams nyx is up next after that no clue 

all i know is de cant rework every warframe at once so please orderly line 

Edited September 25, 2018 by seprent

[EinheriarJudith]

@ZodiacShinryu they could have elemental distortions that spawn when you use powers and passing through them gives you bonuses of the chosen elemental (this could also act as a team buff), they could as i said add to his passive that while taking damage when elemental ward is active you have a chance to gain the effect of the other 3 elements, or they can do some kind of kaleidoscope. a wheel is just unnecessary press and hold work that he doesnt need. it disrupts the flow of combat. more button presses doesnt make for more interactive skills. they use more button presses as one of the tactics to deter AFK.

you know which power i use on khora for venari? healing mode and it never moves from that. you know what power i use on vauban for minelayer? shredder. it doesnt move from that. same with ivara and sleep arrow. they need to find a better way. starting to feel like they should move away from how powers are done and move to skill trees. i was against it but ill take a skill tree i can spec rather than press and hold busy work.

 

[maddragonmaster]

30 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Excuse me? I speak of ideals because I am not the one that controls what happens. All I can do is lay out my thoughts as best I can so that if someone was to actually heed such a concept that they know what to aim for or things to base stuff off of. Frankly you assuming that I didn't think of things that could go wrong (not that you actually know who I am and my personality) is quite insulting. If you talked to anyone that knows me, they would laugh you out of the room. What you are illustrating is false equivalence. You can't get mad at a designer by only telling them what you don't want then still not get exactly what you want because you were specific enough on what you want. So I would be more wary of who you call short-sighted.

i am talking to a random person on the internet that has clashing ideas against mine and is fully confidant about the idea of adding the ability to swap elements. and basiclly not list much else side to improve beside status and maybe better buffs for elemental ward. 

 

perspective is in oder after all. i am pretty sure your friends would understand  having a total stranger arguing at you stating your not focusing on the downsides. T_T

30 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Please feel free to enlighten us all and list them out. I am aware there are options but "better" is a matter of opinion.

sure. one allow players to choose what color triggers what element in arsenal, two fix vex armor multipication so that even if it still can't one shot a eidolon nothing cant one shot a chroma, give chroma a pacific support role if they want him to be support, rework effigy by combining it with elemental ward cause as we all now a sentry or pet that focus' one mob at a time at is slow it it wont work, have this effigy just simply buff and not be a sentry. have his abilities that inflect damage do more damage cause status only goes so far, if keep effigy as a turret or pet have it as a 1 or 3 and either put vex armor in the 4th slot or spectral scream, increase his range, again give him a more active role in his abilities. rework element damage & status elements (doesnt just retain to chroma but you get the idea), have toxin or electricity give mobility and movement speed while the other has attack speed and reload speed. improve spectral scream to a semi exaulted to exaulted beam weapon status (primary or secondary), and lets see oh the final thing rework his entire augments replacing ones like vexing retaliation have everlasting ward be part of the main ability, and at least improve after burn, and have the effigy have a better augment that has the credit booster on ther and has vacuum effect on it. 

there at least a paragraph of things that would be a better idea of doing then adding an elemental swap.

Edited September 25, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, RoninJed said:

Why does NYX need a rework and who asked.

Because she currently serves no purpose. Both Loki and Rev does what Nyx can while also bringing alot more to the table.

[maddragonmaster]

anyways this argument is going no were.  you want an elemental swap ability and i want to have chroma focus on a more active role in his ability with elements being effective and not just for status procs. 

besides i have a passion for dragons & dinosaurs that may or may not fall into an obsession. and have a focus mind on what represents a dragon theme whether or not anyone agrees with me or not.

and my view is what makes a dragon deadly is that it has a tough hide, resistant to its own element, and will decimate you if you so as to happen to get it very angry, and in my mind a dragons breath is just as deadly or more deadly then its claws and teeth.