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Chroma needs a rework


Aleksi134
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It honestly doesn't get much worse then chroma imo. The sole reason he's beein played at all is bc his one inferior buff stacks with rhinos... what's simply circumstance.

Wait for people to figure out stronger combos (ivaras navigator is a candidate with her x5 default buff) and he'll gonna die out.

And not to mention that back when DE nerfed chroma they said that sometime in the future he would get a proper rework.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

So DE are most likely going to just leave chroma buried in his coffin then... Welp I guess more chroma rework propaganda is going to need to be made.

edit: Heck even tacticalpotatoe wanted a chroma rework of some kind!

From a vet with limited experience, it seems like the multiplicative error made him viable overall, but OP vs Eidelons.  His 1 and 4 still needed some love (especially his 1), but his 2,3 were GREAT.

But once they fixed the error vs Eidelons, the end result was an unacceptable performance liability vs the rest of the game, especially compared to other frames.  He became a great looking, popularly themed, WEAK frame.

Is this accurate?

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30 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

From a vet with limited experience, it seems like the multiplicative error made him viable overall, but OP vs Eidelons.  His 1 and 4 still needed some love (especially his 1), but his 2,3 were GREAT.

But once they fixed the error vs Eidelons, the end result was an unacceptable performance liability vs the rest of the game, especially compared to other frames.  He became a great looking, popularly themed, WEAK frame.

Is this accurate?

It's a bad choise for DE

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4 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

Chroma is widely used within the 'meta', therefore he is not a priority to rework, unlike the other frames you named, which are only very rarely used because they don't currently have a gameplay niche.

What "meta"? Warframe is a conglomerate of 'metas'. I wouldn't say he is "widely" used. He is a simple meta pick in a single piece of content that rolls around for 50min every 2hrs. I say simple because he has 3-4 equally viable competitors. Anywhere else he is mid-tier, because he is a single target killer in a hoard kill game with little reliable support or CC and a weapon damage boost far beyond what is actually needed outside long endurance runs (though his innate survivability falls off faster than that).

I believe even in the last statistics devstream the (incredibly basic and small window) usage statistics put him in the middle of the pack even with being "widely used within the 'meta'". Particularly even then he is probably only being carried because his Dragon theme more than his actual usefulness anywhere other than Eidolons. Chroma may be 'okay' because Vex carries him but he is the only frame that has two abilities that are actually detriments to his overall performance. I have already seen Titania (her powers are more awkward than they are non-functioning) and Wukong (Cloudwalker is probably his low point though the range cap on his 4th is too small too) perform better than Chroma in a number of scenarios, not that they don't need work too. And Nyx and Vauban are just bottom of their niches (which isn't hard with frames like Limbo and Nova).

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12 minutes ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

It's a bad choise for DE

The goal is not to attack DE.   Rather, we hope to show how Chroma’s power reduction is negatively impacting the gameplay experience. A change may hinge on a drop in long-term usage numbers because PA is going to skew numbers for a bit based on his popular theme.

Ultimately we need to show how a better Dragon means better business revenues.

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9 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

He is a simple meta pick in a single piece of content that rolls around for 50min every 2hrs.

He is one of the most popular frames, when it comes to Eidolon hunts, one of the few end game possibility we have.

 

11 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I believe even in the last statistics devstream the (incredibly basic and small window) usage statistics put him in the middle of the pack even with being "widely used within the 'meta'". 

So he is no where near as unplayed as other frames and is not a priority for reworks.

17 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

he is the only frame that has two abilities that are actually detriments to his overall performance. 

Depending on circumstances I can see more frames with 2 detrimental abilities

Also Chromas Effigy is far from a detriment in some situations.

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vor 26 Minuten schrieb ZodiacShinryu:

because he is a single target killer in a hoard kill game with little reliable support or CC and a weapon damage boost far beyond what is actually needed outside long endurance runs (though his innate survivability falls off faster than that).

I'm not sure about the current numbers but isn't it something around 1/4 of what it has been before?

I've touched that topic in another thread before but rhinos multiplicative nature makes it able for him to still reach chromas pre-nerf armor rating on his iron skin with ease... and isn't vex armors offensive potential about equal to his roar?

What is needet in a hoard game can be relative since the game DOES scale and there's both, single target and AoE weapons in theyr arsenal. His role is acceptable, what makes it fatal is just that it's an underpowered clone of rhino since both work with armor and buffs, only that rhino

*has bigger armor now (and could have before)

*has a regeneratable health source that's bigger then anything chroma could've managed even before the nerf

*has an equal buff with the range and possibility to support

*and controllable Cc that can't be shot down in higher levels and doesn't affect his defense

* on a far superior efficiency, even if you account for rage.

 

...His entire kit makes him nothing but a poor excuse of a rhino and if it wasn't for the stacking with rhino there would be no reason at all to play him over him, no matter the content. That kinda kit is fine. That there's a frame that does the exact same thing a hundret times better is not.

Edited by (PS4)CoolD2108
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vor 5 Stunden schrieb yles9056:

Not that DE doesn't want to rework Chroma. It's just that there are other frames waiting in line. They are in worse place than Chroma.

exactly. chroma will get a rework and DE knows that we seeking for one but they have their priorities. currently everybody is focusing on fortuna (as steve wrote on twitter).. after fortuna i can see that the staff has time for reworks but they are going by their list. and as allready mentioned chroma is not on that. so we wont see a chroma rework for atleast a  year.

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Il y a 1 heure, (PS4)Silverback73 a dit :

But once they fixed the error vs Eidelons, the end result was an unacceptable performance liability vs the rest of the game, especially compared to other frames.  He became a great looking, popularly themed, WEAK frame.

Is this accurate?

It is. He's still tank-ish but considering he only has his EHP to go about it's sad he's lower than Nova of all frames, and less than half of Nekros, Nezha and Nidus, and less than 25% of stuff like Trinity and Mesa... And they are all off-tanks 😞

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53 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Ok?  Are you saying he is already balanced and I’m asking him to be unfairly buffed or are you saying he needs a rework to compete?

I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things his 2-3 are balanced. His 1-4 need a look at but he's not in a bad state that many make him out to be. There are other frames out there in worse states that need touching up.

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Can they consider making Chroma's Effigy Duration based instead of a Drain Ability - They can even swap it with Spectral Scream (So 1st to 4th, and vice versa) and have Spectral Scream be an ultimate Drain ability that does incredible amounts of damage, much like Revenant's Danse Macabre, but instead of it being radial have it be angular in the direction he's facing; possibly with an option to do increased damage through holding the ability in.

I do miss his old damage buff numbers, but I'm not upset at his current state. I just had to switch from being Ice Chroma to Fire Chroma as Ice Chroma is not that effective at tanking anymore.

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My gripe with Chroma is not with his 1-4, as much as the way they changed his 2-3, they sacrificed some damage and tankiness for "utility" which makes him lose flavor, and to me Chroma isn't about that, and I hope DE won't continue going down that route.

Chroma, IMO should always be THE boss killer in warframe, screw CC, utility, team buffs, when I want someone like that I'll pick Rhino/octavia, when I want to clear a room I'll pick saryn/equinox/mesa, but when you want to send someone to the void and beyond and back, you pick freaking Chroma. To me he's like the tigris prime, you don't use it all the time, but you always want to.

And then one day you find something that really, unequivocally must die, so you dust off the tigris. Chroma is like that, he's the frame you pick when you just want to say "#*!% you" to a boss right before wiping it from existence, he's the frame you call when you want to kill corrupted Vor BEFORE he even starts his monologue. "I was.." "You were dead, Vor, stay dead" - Chroma. 

Keeping it brief ( or not ), what I'm saying here, PLEASE DE, for the future don't try to make Chroma compete with others to "balance" him out, in doing so he will lose his flavor just so he can be like other frames ( e.g. Rhino ) there are many other games that do this in the name of balance they sacrifice the theme around something and you end up with lots of choices, that are meaningless because they're all the same!

So basically, just get rid of his aura, and give back his old numbers, he'll still suck in most situations like he always did, but he'll remain the Boss Dragon Slayer ( and tbh even then he's overkill, I can do just fine what chroma does with many, MANY other frames while offering lots more, but I always liked that he was the only one that can, potentially, do just that much more damage, which makes him worth it )

And if they ever do decide to work on Chroma, he really only needs a few tweaks on his 1-4 to make a build centered around them viable, right now his 1 is the worst skill in the game, I can't believe that even with max ability damage it does so little it's pathetic! I love the ideas of them just they barely scale ( 4 ) or they don''t at all ( 1 )

P.S. People tend to forget about who needs the most rework, Chroma is the frame that requires the most investment, because not only do you HAVE to build around his 3 to gain the most out of him ( otherwise he's a weaker version of x/y/z frame ) you also need to forma his weapons differently than any other frame, and all this just so he can work in a small set of missions , that is a significant investment, and Chroma's main playerbase maybe small but they're dedicated.

Edited by Licandrien
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4 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

He is one of the most popular frames, when it comes to Eidolon hunts, one of the few end game possibility we have.

 

So he is no where near as unplayed as other frames and is not a priority for reworks.

Depending on circumstances I can see more frames with 2 detrimental abilities

Also Chromas Effigy is far from a detriment in some situations.

um excuse me but your talking about a energy hungry sentry that does nothing near to agreeable to validate the severe energy drain on the pelt. it only attacks 1 target at a time might hit any targets near that target, does a knock-up move which if i remember from the negative reactions of impact status in status 2.5 everyone either hated to disliked it, it reduces your armor in half. the only thing it has going is a roar that stun nearby foes and a credit booster that is grossly out classed by just running index. 

it is in my opinion the single worst ability in chroma's kit in due to it being in the 4th ability slot and that it holds chroma back. at least spectral scream you can control which target you can choose to inflect status on. spectral scream just needs a few improvements at least to grossly outclass effigy and actual have good usability compare to energy drain.

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4 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things his 2-3 are balanced. His 1-4 need a look at but he's not in a bad state that many make him out to be. There are other frames out there in worse states that need touching up.

correction the damage buff is fine. His armor buff on the other hand is weaker than most tank frames and needs to be looked at along his 1 and 4.

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13 hours ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

So far everybody here is aware of the tons of chroma rework threads and it's affairs. Usually all those threads get merged with the other chroma thread, forming an amalgamation of all sorts of mixed ideas that get jumbled up into a hideous mess. Hopefully this thread doesn't suffer the same fate. Anyways moving onto the main topic.

 

Chroma the elemental master. able to adapt to anything.

passive: chromatic adaptation - Chroma upon taking damage adapts to whatever damage type has been inflicted upon him, becoming immune to its status effect and bonus's for a time.

1st ability: spectral scream - Chroma lets out an elemental scream that can devastate your foes. Spectral scream is an ability that can casted immediately for a quick elemental blast or it can be charged up to one huge continuous beam of elemental energy that grows stronger with each and every status proc they take. This ability and it's scaling becomes amplified when effigy is active.

2nd ability: elemental swap - Casting this ability will allow chroma to change elements on the battlefield. Each element determine the effects of each ability.

3rd ability: Warding vex armor - When shields are hit, Chroma's armor grows stronger, when health takes a hit, weapon damage increases,active for a limited time. Along with that chroma surrounds himself with an elemental ward that has different effects based on the element. All of chromas damaging abilities are affected by the damage buff warding vex armor gives.

4th ability: effigy - Chromas pelt manifest as a guardian that hovers right behind chroma lowering his defesnse in exchange for more offensive capabilities and enhancements/utility. Effigy will mimic chromas attacks and movement with its own version of attacks and mobility. 

primary weapon/secondary weapon fire will cause effigy to fire elemental energy at the enemy you are currently firing at. :note: weapon type will determine whether or not if effigy's attacks are burst or continuous.

blocking will bring effigy to the front of chroma and create an elemental shield that protects all who is within the field range. :note: the shield would function as if you would normally block. Basically for example if you have a silva and aegis prime with 90% damage reduction when blocking, that shield that effigy projects gets 90% damage reduction.

melee attacking unleashes the fury of effigy's elemental claws, slicing through all in your way. Along with that performing charge attacks will unleash effigy's roar stunning all enemies within a certain radius.

jumping/aim gliding becomes more effective while effigy is active.

Alright here's basically in a sense the effigy is a stand and chroma is a stand user with this rework proposalThis is the best picture I could make to show off how it may look.

mi7xFj6.png

The goal of this rework Idea was to make chromas entire kit much better and more synergized while still retaining the weapon platform feel of chroma. The only thing I didn't add my ideas towards were the 4 elements that chroma uses. You guys can discuss what would be the best ideas for what effect each element provides. Anyways I hope you like my rework proposal.

But sadly I don't think DE will care about these ideas. But hey it doesn't hurt to try anyways 🙂

best one yet!!! Very, VERY good ideas here DE, work with us and lets make a great frame together! 

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1 minute ago, (XB1)ultamite hero said:

Yeah I figured the ideas I proposed would keep the tanky weapons platform feel while also at the same time having you feel like a powerful dragon.

that is exactly what i wanted from this frame,to have more of that "dragon feel"you know?what you did with his 1 and 4 is just perfect.That weapon synergies with the ult especially,and when you attack with melee i suggest to make it so the effigy targets nearby enemies and does a woosh claw attack.

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thinking of something for an idea not sure on the entire bit involving it but here i go.

passive: wrath: as chroma fights and receives damage, using abilities, and dealing damage he will build up a meter and once that meter is full it boosts his abilities making him a force to be wreaking with for a fixed amount of time.

1st ability: vex armor: ok some people may question why this is here but i would like to point it out this is merely to help chroma out when leveling the poor guy, as i noticed when chroma level's to rank 6 he only gets what? about 12'ish seconds on his vex armor? not very good if you ask me, this is chroma's main survival ability and we can only aquire it at rank 6 and above? and when you max rank him and build him for about high strength and duration he gets about 60'ish  aseconds, while  that is acceptable it is heavily due to having primed continuity, constitution, and a full narrow minded, while having on the strength side we have blind rage, and transient fortitude. 

2nd: ability: effigy: this one for its current functions doesn't really validate for being a worthy 4th ability when we have some engaging abilities that can clear a goond number of enemies far better then this thing can do to a few. so here is a simple  suggestion, just make it a duration ability and not a channel and we are good. scratch the knock back ability and  it is all good just let it breath element and roar from time to time.

3rd ability: elemental ward: ok this one needs to have more range and better buffs for each one, while the passive i suggested will increase the effects of all abilities there needs to be some more effective buffs  for them. suggestion adding a defense and offense buff, while having a aura that can inflect status. the buffs are health and attack damage for fire, armor and crit chance for ice, shield and attack speed, and status chance and resistances for toxin.

4th: spectral roar (aka spectral scream): have chroma begin to prepare for a spectral scream and while this is going on he gathers power from any elemental status inflected mobs in the area  and lets out a mighty blast of elemental might primary dealing element from your choice of energy color while dealing any other status that was gathered when preparing.  the longer this ability charges the more strength and range the final breath attack has. and the reason i prefer it being called spectral roar is well you can guess it. screaming doesn't seem like something a dragon or a dragon slayer would do. it would be more like belting out a roar then anything. that or call it a shout for a slight wink to another game. ps when you use this in the air chroma's wings will pop out and chroma hover then while charging up and then release breath blast. a sguestion for a useful augment would be spectral  flare. replaces the regular breath cone or beam with an explosive elemental ball of energy.

Edited by maddragonmaster
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7 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

He is one of the most popular frames, when it comes to Eidolon hunts, one of the few end game possibility we have.

Eidolons ARE NOT the whole game. Under a hypothetical, if the majority of his playtime of the entire playerbase comes from a single mission type.... that's not good. Especially since the needs of a hunt is so disjointed from the rest of the game.

7 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

So he is no where near as unplayed as other frames and is not a priority for reworks.

I mean it is extremely unlikely DE could ever completely balance play time between every frame, there are too many frames doing too many things. Bigger developers can't do it and they work with 3x to 10x less characters. The fact of the matter is that if self-damage didn't exist (to exploit) on Vex (pretty much the only remaining case of it) Chroma world plummet, likely mostly for being way less Eidolon viable. He is being held up by one ability in one game type that we are exploiting to make work. Not great place to be. I can save DE a lot of time for her rework... make Absorb protect everything with its range, boom instantly eidolon viability. But would that be a great rework? Probably not.

Reworks should be made on the premise that their kits aren't working. And Chroma's is barely holding on.

7 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

Depending on circumstances I can see more frames with 2 detrimental abilities

Also Chromas Effigy is far from a detriment in some situations.

I mean you are speaking about just about every warframe depending on the circumstance. I can use all of Nyx's abilities to better extent than I could ever use Chroma's 1 and 4. That is the point.

7 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I've touched that topic in another thread before but rhinos multiplicative nature makes it able for him to still reach chromas pre-nerf armor rating on his iron skin with ease... and isn't vex armors offensive potential about equal to his roar?

I mean yes. It depends on how you mod, but pretty much any decent riven can make Rhino output about equal to Chroma; while some rivens can push Rhino further.

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With the recent addition of Chroma Prime I can´t help but think of his skills, Spectral Scream and Effigy being the main ones. So after a while I came up with a rework for him in order to buff his skills in general:

1: Spectral Scream: Standing still increases damage by 300%, range increases by 50% and proc chance goes to 100% (increases energy cost by 50% while standing still). Also make it work like the beam weapons, dealing several instances of damage instead of 1 per second. Because this ability loses power quickly when dealing with high level enemies I wanted to make it stronger without relying on the charge mechanic. 
 

2: Elemetal Ward: It always bothered me the fact that both Ice Elemental Ward and Vex armor give you an armor buff. Why not fuse both of them? Also, almost no one use the Eletricity or Toxin Ward, mainly because their buffs are mostly lackluster. Therefore I propose the following changes:

 Cold: Fuse his Vex armor armor boost with his Ice Elemental Ward and increase the maximum armor buff to 500%(No loss to durability, Vex armor grants 350% and Ice Ward gives 150%). You don´t need 2 armor boosting skills in a single warframe. Ice Chroma is going to be the Tank version of Chroma.

Heat: Fuse Vex armor´s damage boost with Fire elemental Ward and increase health bonus to 250% The added health boost  from Fire Ward has great sinergy with Vex armor´s damage buff. More armor is actually detrimental to the increase of the Fury buff because the increase is based on health lost. So more HP and no increase to armor means that you get the buff faster without risking a quick death. Of course, this can be dangerous in higher levels but Chroma already has high armor. This is the "berserker Chroma", mainly focused on damage.

Eletricity: Give Electric Elemental Ward +50% shield recharge rate (affected by power strenght). This goes really well with the boost to his shields ,because both of them affect the ammount of shield recharged per second.  Also, every 10 stacks of damage Chroma releases a bolt of lighting from his position, dealing 1000 damage in a 10 meter radius, stunning all enemies with an eletricity proc. This Chroma is meant to deal with large Crowds and stun enemies.

Toxin: Keep the reload speed and holster buffs. Chroma leaves a poison cloud behind him every second, the cloud lasts for 3 seconds and deals 150 damage per second. Status procs on Chroma produce different effects due to the contact with Chroma´s toxin. Fire procs create explosions every second around Chroma, dealing 100 damage and knocking down enemies (flammable gas). Eletricity procs leave a corrosive puddle on the ground that lasts 3 seconds and do a corrosive proc each second. Cold empowers the poison clouds, increasing their damage to 200 and stunning the enemies that pass through it. This Chroma is focused on an adaptative playstyle. His intended playstyle is to never stop moving and retaliate if he gets hit.

3: Effigy: The pelt follows you like an specter (can be ordered to stand still) and drain is reduce to 7 per second. Reduce tick damage to 200 (1000 per second). The augment is changed to allow the pelt to use its wings to produce elemental waves. The pelt produces elemental waves every five seconds, each dealing 500 damage to enemies up to 10 meters and pusing them back. Right now Effigy drains too much energy and it is too clunky to use since it doesn´t move without the augment, these buffs should address these issues.

4: Apocalypse (new skill): Chroma unleases all his elemental might in an area around him. This ability has 17m radius and lasts for 12 seconds.

Heat: Meteors fall around the area, similarly to Hydroid´s tempest barrage but the meteors are more spread out and fall at 1/3 speed. Each meteor will deal 600 damage and cause a 5m fire explosion with 100% status chance. Like his heat ward this version is focused on damage.

Cold: Freezes the affected area, slowing down enemies by 25% (not affected by power strenght). Ice spikes will come fromthe frozen ground, dealing 200 damage each with 100% chance to cause a puncture proc. The spikes occur at a rate of 3-4 per second just like Ember´s World on Fire. This version is less focused on damage and more on survivability.

 Eletricity: A storm strikes the area, producing 1-2 lighting bolts per second, each dealing 400 damage in an 6 meter radius with 100% chance to proc. This is focused on crowd control.

Toxin: Generates a poisonous cloud which causes 200 damage per second to all affected enemies and reduce their accuracy by 30%. This version is focused more on support.

Chroma is a dragon that lacks a Crowd Control Ability, which is something very unusual for a dragon-themed character. This skill represents the ammount of destruction a dragon can cause in an area.

Edited by HolySeraphin
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