Chroma needs a rework

[MaryoSlayer]

we have a megathread for his rework.

[K4RN4]

6 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

um excuse me but your talking about a energy hungry sentry that does nothing near to agreeable to validate the severe energy drain on the pelt. it only attacks 1 target at a time might hit any targets near that target, does a knock-up move which if i remember from the negative reactions of impact status in status 2.5 everyone either hated to disliked it, it reduces your armor in half. the only thing it has going is a roar that stun nearby foes and a credit booster that is grossly out classed by just running index. 

it is in my opinion the single worst ability in chroma's kit in due to it being in the 4th ability slot and that it holds chroma back. at least spectral scream you can control which target you can choose to inflect status on. spectral scream just needs a few improvements at least to grossly outclass effigy and actual have good usability compare to energy drain.

The point in question was not, if it is a good ability or worthy of being a fourth. It's whether or not it's a detriment and I think a bit of CC, a credit booster and a faint movement buff are easily worth a 50% reduction in armor, as Chroma has by far more armor than any frame needs.

4 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Eidolons ARE NOT the whole game. Under a hypothetical, if the majority of his playtime of the entire playerbase comes from a single mission type.... that's not good. Especially since the needs of a hunt is so disjointed from the rest of the game.

I never said they were the whole game, just a significant share of the endgame,which they are.

4 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

I mean it is extremely unlikely DE could ever completely balance play time between every frame, there are too many frames doing too many things. Bigger developers can't do it and they work with 3x to 10x less characters.

They are reworking the frames that have the lowest percentage of usage, so they are at least trying to balance out usage.

4 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

The fact of the matter is that if self-damage didn't exist (to exploit) on Vex (pretty much the only remaining case of it) Chroma world plummet, likely mostly for being way less Eidolon viable. 

"If the game were different the ability would be worse"

4 hours ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

He is being held up by one ability in one game type that we are exploiting to make work. Not great place to be. I can save DE a lot of time for her rework... make Absorb protect everything with its range, boom instantly eidolon viability. But would that be a great rework? Probably not.

Reworks should be made on the premise that their kits aren't working. And Chroma's is barely holding on.

Of cause his abilities are not in a great place, but that was never the question at hand. What I said was, that he is not the top priority to rework, because he has a use unlike other frames, that are almost completely unused. I did never say:"Chroma is perfect as he is, never rework him". What I was suggesting was merely: Rework the unused frames first.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

I don't see changeable elements mid-battle 0/1000000

[K4RN4]

2 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

2: Elemetal Ward: It always bothered me the fact that both Ice Elemental Ward and Vex armor give you an armor buff. Why not fuse both of them? Also, almost no one use the Eletricity or Toxin Ward, mainly because their buffs are mostly lackluster. Therefore I propose the following changes:

 Cold: Fuse his Vex armor armor boost with his Ice Elemental Ward and increase the maximum armor buff to 500%(No loss to durability, Vex armor grants 350% and Ice Ward gives 150%). You don´t need 2 armor boosting skills in a single warframe. Ice Chroma is going to be the Tank version of Chroma.

Heat: Fuse Vex armor´s damage boost with Fire elemental Ward and increase health bonus to 250% The added health boost  from Fire Ward has great sinergy with Vex armor´s damage buff. More armor is actually detrimental to the increase of the Fury buff because the increase is based on health lost. So more HP and no increase to armor means that you get the buff faster without risking a quick death. Of course, this can be dangerous in higher levels but Chroma already has high armor. This is the "berserker Chroma", mainly focused on damage.

That seems like a nerf, as you can no longer achieve Armor and Damage Buff at the same time.

 

2 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

4: Apocalypse (new skill): Chroma unleases all his elemental might in an area around him. This ability has 17m radius and lasts for 12 seconds.

Heat: Meteors fall around the area, similarly to Hydroid´s tempest barrage but the meteors are more spread out and fall at 1/3 speed. Each meteor will deal 600 damage and cause a 5m fire explosion with 100% status chance. Like his heat ward this version is focused on damage.

Cold: Freezes the affected area, slowing down enemies by 25% (not affected by power strenght). Ice spikes will come fromthe frozen ground, dealing 200 damage each with 100% chance to cause a puncture proc. The spikes occur at a rate of 3-4 per second just like Ember´s World on Fire. This version is less focused on damage and more on survivability.

 Eletricity: A storm strikes the area, producing 1-2 lighting bolts per second, each dealing 400 damage in an 6 meter radius with 100% chance to proc. This is focused on crowd control.

Toxin: Generates a poisonous cloud which causes 200 damage per second to all affected enemies and reduce their accuracy by 30%. This version is focused more on support.

New abilities are always a lot of work and not preferable for developers. But it's a good ability concept.

 

2 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

Chroma is a dragon that lacks a Crowd Control Ability, which is something very unusual for a dragon-themed character. This skill represents the ammount of destruction a dragon can cause in an area.

Chroma is more of a dragon hunter, as he wears a dragon pelt over his shoulders. I also don't see a link between CC and Dragons.

[HolySeraphin]

1 hour ago, Oru5732 said:

That seems like a nerf, as you can no longer achieve Armor and Damage Buff at the same time.

 

New abilities are always a lot of work and not preferable for developers. But it's a good ability concept.

 

Chroma is more of a dragon hunter, as he wears a dragon pelt over his shoulders. I also don't see a link between CC and Dragons.

Thanks for the Feedback.

Still. Having 2 "buff" skills seems to be a waste of skill slot, especially because both can boost armor. Vex armor is an incredibly useful skill but using a warframe just to buff himself feels very boring to me, it is not a good way to represent his devastating power. People only use Ice Ward because it buffs Vex armor, otherwise they would use the other elemental versions. I tried to give Elemental Ward the adaptative aspect of Chroma, each version representing a role, instead of just making him the "ultimate tank/damage dealer". 

Another option would be to Keep Vex armor but still buff Elemental Ward. Fire could get a "Rage" effect, gaining energy when struck. This would go well with the health boost.  

About CC, my bad, I mistook the definition of CC. You´re right. Nonetheless I think Chroma should be able to kill multiple enemies at once, to get that "destruction" aspect of a dragon. Chroma is more of a dragon hunter, but I´m sure he has aspects of one.

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by HolySeraphin

[m3stuart]

Here's how i would rework him, while mostly the same. Just read the Spectral Scream/Effigy changes, maybe u will like em.

Passive: Elemental Alignment

Spoiler

Chroma gains Additional Bonuses , depending on the element he's currently using , Heat being the base element.

Heat : 75 Hp

Electric  : 100 Shields

Toxin : 7.5% Movement Speed

Cold : 50 armor

1.Spectral Scream

Spoiler

This ability it's pretty decent, despite all the hate it's getting.

One way to make it better it's to change something for it.

 

New:

Elemental Swap : Chroma can now additionally hold the 1 button, to change he's element.

This would give Chroma so much potential, without changing Spectral Scream at all.

Also, Quicktap, to use Spectral Scream

2. Elemental Ward

Spoiler

Elemental Ward it's in a decent spot, but right now, Toxic it's (for me at least) the most useless one out of the 4 elements he can use. I'm looking to make some changes to that.

Electric : Discharge range increased from 5/6/8/10 to 6/8/10/12 meters.

Toxin :

Replaced Holster Rate with Fire Rate.

Fire Rate Bonus 10/15/15/20%

Added Parkour Velocity. 

Chroma will have 10/10/15/20% Increased Parkour Velocity

 

Changes:

Augment : Everlasting Ward

When this augment is used, all Chroma's will retain their buffs , meaning they will stack (Only works with different elements, meaning Having 4 Electric Chroma's won't matter, but having 1 Heat/Electric/Cold/Toxin, then, they can all stack buffs from their Elemental Ward )

4. Effigy

Spoiler

This ability it's , again decent, only limited by Energy Consumption.

 

• Changes:

Sentry:

Energy Consumption Removed

Now, it will have a duration of 10/10/12/15 seconds.

Cost Increased from 25 energy to 100.

Health Reduced from 1000/2000/4000/8000 to 500/1000/2000/4000

Damage Reduced from 100/200/300/400 to 100/175/225/300

Chroma:

Speed Bonus reduced from 20% to 15%

Armor Reduction decreased from 50% to 40%

 

• New:

Wrath of the Drake : Chroma can additionally hold the 4 button to take flight , exhaling elemental breath below .

This ability will have the following stats:

Flight Height: 2-4 m above ground.

Reduced speed while exhaling elemental breath.

Damage : DpT : 100/200/300/400

Energy Drain: 15/s

Chroma Can choose where to land, dealing heavy damage upon landing.

He gains no additional bonuses while flying (Only the ones he had active during Elemental Ward/Vex Armor).

 

• New:

Icarus Dive (Formelry Guided Effigy) : (Effigy only, removes the ability to fly).

Chroma can command the Effigy by holding 4 button to dive forward in an arc, dealing damage, then orbiting back to it's initial position. It leaves behind, a path of elemental breath, dealing heavy damage, and slowing everyone who crosses it. The longer you hold, the greater the arc.

I would honestly love to see this in-game.

 

[HolySeraphin]

I think the key to make Chroma more diverse is to give greater buffs to his Elemental Ward, giving each one a role. You could give Heat Ward the "rage effect", Eletricity more CC and Toxin a status chance buff and multishoot.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

Dear Chroma main players.
Chroma needs a new "rework" that absolutely reinforces him, because as it is now it's not good.
There is no reason why someone should prefer him to other warframes, the characteristics that made him such have been weakened to the pointlessness, now it is already so much if we survive with Chroma.
I would like to ask DE to grant a new rework, not only of his third skill (the one that needs it most for me) but also of all the others.
If you also want a rework of chroma of any kind, resistance as before, damage as before without the double dipping damage, a new first skill, a fourth skill different or anything else, then you can do a post for Chroma on the forum, if you're not agree then don't do anything , do not come to write absurd things, if you do not care, just avoid ... Thanks

It seems like a revolution ahahah.

[Tsoe]

i tryed every single build to make spectral scream and elemental  ward and have hard time to feel the use of is 1 and 2 and effigy draining so much energy make it useless

 

😄

 

all hail chroma the fat dragon that cant do anything XD

Edited September 30, 2018 by Tsoe

[GinKenshin]

Oh look, another one of those >___> 

 

  I think the worst thing about chroma is the players complaining about reworking him tbh 

[K4RN4]

There is a chroma rework post with over 20 pages. Please post there if you want a rework and don't clutter the forum with posts. Encouraging other players to do so is also a bad idea.

[FLSH_BNG]

This thread will lock or just disappear soon; You've provided nothing of any substantial value that could be used to even guess at what sort of changes you would approve of in a rework.

 

Never mind the fact that each warframe is a unique beast with abilities and stats that, by default, favor a certain playing style. And not everyone is going to be good at or like every frame.

So demanding a rework of something just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean that it's broken. For those who have managed to make Chroma work and make him work well, any significant changes made to how he functions would invalidate all of the time and effort that they put into him; while simultaneously adding salt to the wound by making it so that literally anybody could be just as effective or even more so without as much skill or knowledge required.

There is nothing wrong with demanding players to have a certain level of expertise to be able to fully utilize certain parts of the game.
This is something that players can learn, just like the parkour movements used to quickly traverse maps. Newer players are more likely to just run than bullet jump and aim glide, but they don't demand that everyone simply be able to fly from the start just to make it easier for them to be at the same level as those who put the time and effort in.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

1 hour ago, Tsoe said:

i tryed every single build to make spectral scream and elemental  ward and have hard time to feel the use of is 1 and 2 and effigy draining so much energy make it useless

 

😄

 

all hail chroma the fat dragon that cant do anything XD

And also the armor buff is simply ridiculous 

[(XBOX)MasterFonta6791]

Dear Chroma main players.
Chroma needs a new "rework" that absolutely reinforces him, because as it is now it's not good.
There is no reason why someone should prefer him to other warframes, the characteristics that made him such have been weakened to the pointlessness, now it is already so much if we survive with Chroma.
I would like to ask DE to grant a new rework, not only of his third skill (the one that needs it most for me) but also of all the others.
If you also want a rework of chroma of any kind, resistance as before, damage as before without the double dipping damage, a new first skill, a fourth skill different or anything else, then you can do a post for Chroma on the forum, if you're not agree then don't do anything , do not come to write absurd things, if you do not care, just avoid ... Thanks

It seems like a revolution ahahah.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb m3stuart:

New:

Elemental Swap : Chroma can now additionally hold the 1 button, to change he's element.

This would give Chroma so much potential, without changing Spectral Scream at all.

Also, Quicktap, to use Spectral Scream

another decent change would be:

click for the current spectral scream

hold to release a scream that stuns enemies (just like chromas effigy does)

this would help immensly - giving the ability a new purpose. and since people are experimenting with range on chroma (since his vex armor change) - this could actually work out pretty well.

base range 10m/15m/20m/25m

 

so people might consider running chroma as cc frame giving him more versetility. or running hyprid at 100% range.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

4 hours ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

There is no reason why someone should prefer him to other warframes,

really? damn, I might prefer him to other frames just because he looks the coolest, but I guess that's not allowed. sorry officer, how much is the fine and where do I pay it? /s

4 hours ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

not only of his third skill (the one that needs it most for me)

> even though everybody else agrees that his 3 is his best skill and shouldn't be changed, or at least not changed much.

4 hours ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

if you're not agree then don't do anything

oh right, I forgot, w'ere not allowed to disgaree now either, are we? whoops, that's another fine.. actually you know what, you should just arrest me officer, I clearly have committed a terrible crime by believing I'm free to voice my opinion. /s

[LupisV0lk]

1 hour ago, (XB1)SaitamaPower992 said:

 his third skill (the one that needs it most for me)

And this right here is where you dun goofed.

It shows that all you want is a ez mode bugged crutch.

The only decent answer that that is Git Gud.

[DeMonkey]

Nice repost. 

Not going to do you any good though, especially when you don't take on board anything anyone said.

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

really? damn, I might prefer him to other frames just because he looks the coolest, but I guess that's not allowed. sorry officer, how much is the fine and where do I pay it? /s

> even though everybody else agrees that his 3 is his best skill and shouldn't be changed, or at least not changed much.

oh right, I forgot, w'ere not allowed to disgaree now either, are we? whoops, that's another fine.. actually you know what, you should just arrest me officer, I clearly have committed a terrible crime by believing I'm free to voice my opinion. /s

I mean, if you're not agree don't say anything, just ignore that message and go away, but if you still want to write something is OK. It's not a dictature, no one will be annoyed of this, sorry for the misanderstanding. 

This is just an idea of mine (But also many others agree with me). 

I'm not good to explain my point of wiew but if you're interested I'll leave you that link Which explains better than I could. 

Nex time I'll write something more accurate than this, sorry again. 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1008931-chroma-needs-a-rework/?do=findComment&comment=10175033

[DeMonkey]

Why are you reposting someone elses useless thread, whilst failing to take into account the feedback they got on it?

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1012510-chrome-prime/?tab=comments#comment-10176808

 

[Teridax68]

My thoughts on this :

16 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

With the recent addition of Chroma Prime I can´t help but think of his skills, Spectral Scream and Effigy being the main ones. So after a while I came up with a rework for him in order to buff his skills in general:

1: Spectral Scream: Standing still increases damage by 300%, range increases by 50% and proc chance goes to 100% (increases energy cost by 50% while standing still). Also make it work like the beam weapons, dealing several instances of damage instead of 1 per second. Because this ability loses power quickly when dealing with high level enemies I wanted to make it stronger without relying on the charge mechanic. 

Having the ability increase in range and damage when standing still is a great idea, imo, and definitely goes with the dragon defender theme. On top of this, though, I do think buffing the base damage, and increasing the proc chance to 100% wouldn't really make Chroma overpowered.

16 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

2: Elemetal Ward: It always bothered me the fact that both Ice Elemental Ward and Vex armor give you an armor buff. Why not fuse both of them? Also, almost no one use the Eletricity or Toxin Ward, mainly because their buffs are mostly lackluster. Therefore I propose the following changes:

 Cold: Fuse his Vex armor armor boost with his Ice Elemental Ward and increase the maximum armor buff to 500%(No loss to durability, Vex armor grants 350% and Ice Ward gives 150%). You don´t need 2 armor boosting skills in a single warframe. Ice Chroma is going to be the Tank version of Chroma.

Heat: Fuse Vex armor´s damage boost with Fire elemental Ward and increase health bonus to 250% The added health boost  from Fire Ward has great sinergy with Vex armor´s damage buff. More armor is actually detrimental to the increase of the Fury buff because the increase is based on health lost. So more HP and no increase to armor means that you get the buff faster without risking a quick death. Of course, this can be dangerous in higher levels but Chroma already has high armor. This is the "berserker Chroma", mainly focused on damage.

Eletricity: Give Electric Elemental Ward +50% shield recharge rate (affected by power strenght). This goes really well with the boost to his shields ,because both of them affect the ammount of shield recharged per second.  Also, every 10 stacks of damage Chroma releases a bolt of lighting from his position, dealing 1000 damage in a 10 meter radius, stunning all enemies with an eletricity proc. This Chroma is meant to deal with large Crowds and stun enemies.

Toxin: Keep the reload speed and holster buffs. Chroma leaves a poison cloud behind him every second, the cloud lasts for 3 seconds and deals 150 damage per second. Status procs on Chroma produce different effects due to the contact with Chroma´s toxin. Fire procs create explosions every second around Chroma, dealing 100 damage and knocking down enemies (flammable gas). Eletricity procs leave a corrosive puddle on the ground that lasts 3 seconds and do a corrosive proc each second. Cold empowers the poison clouds, increasing their damage to 200 and stunning the enemies that pass through it. This Chroma is focused on an adaptative playstyle. His intended playstyle is to never stop moving and retaliate if he gets hit.

I very much like the idea of blending Vex Armor and Elemental Ward together, at least in their current state. The double sources of armor is precisely why Ice Chroma is still dominant over the others, and ultimately the two buffs have the same gameplay. With that said, the end result is still a button you press for a bunch of combat stats on a timer, and I'm not sure if that's really the most interesting thing that can be done with an elemental dragon frame.

16 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

3: Effigy: The pelt follows you like an specter (can be ordered to stand still) and drain is reduce to 7 per second. Reduce tick damage to 200 (1000 per second). The augment is changed to allow the pelt to use its wings to produce elemental waves. The pelt produces elemental waves every five seconds, each dealing 500 damage to enemies up to 10 meters and pusing them back. Right now Effigy drains too much energy and it is too clunky to use since it doesn´t move without the augment, these buffs should address these issues.

Turning Effigy into Chroma's 3 is interesting, and while I may not fully agree with that, I very much like the proposal to make it more responsive.

16 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

4: Apocalypse (new skill): Chroma unleases all his elemental might in an area around him. This ability has 17m radius and lasts for 12 seconds.

Heat: Meteors fall around the area, similarly to Hydroid´s tempest barrage but the meteors are more spread out and fall at 1/3 speed. Each meteor will deal 600 damage and cause a 5m fire explosion with 100% status chance. Like his heat ward this version is focused on damage.

Cold: Freezes the affected area, slowing down enemies by 25% (not affected by power strenght). Ice spikes will come fromthe frozen ground, dealing 200 damage each with 100% chance to cause a puncture proc. The spikes occur at a rate of 3-4 per second just like Ember´s World on Fire. This version is less focused on damage and more on survivability.

 Eletricity: A storm strikes the area, producing 1-2 lighting bolts per second, each dealing 400 damage in an 6 meter radius with 100% chance to proc. This is focused on crowd control.

Toxin: Generates a poisonous cloud which causes 200 damage per second to all affected enemies and reduce their accuracy by 30%. This version is focused more on support.

Chroma is a dragon that lacks a Crowd Control Ability, which is something very unusual for a dragon-themed character. This skill represents the ammount of destruction a dragon can cause in an area.

There's definitely a thematic association via elements, but I question how this relates to Chroma's dragon component. I also feel there's some amount of overlap here with his 1, since you're applying lots of AoE elemental damage. I'd say if you want to emulate the elemental destruction a dragon can bring, that's probably something you'd be able to accomplish with his 1, rather than another ability.

[maddragonmaster]

16 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

The point in question was not, if it is a good ability or worthy of being a fourth. It's whether or not it's a detriment and I think a bit of CC, a credit booster and a faint movement buff are easily worth a 50% reduction in armor, as Chroma has by far more armor than any frame needs.

I never said they were the whole game, just a significant share of the endgame,which they are.

They are reworking the frames that have the lowest percentage of usage, so they are at least trying to balance out usage.

"If the game were different the ability would be worse"

Of cause his abilities are not in a great place, but that was never the question at hand. What I said was, that he is not the top priority to rework, because he has a use unlike other frames, that are almost completely unused. I did never say:"Chroma is perfect as he is, never rework him". What I was suggesting was merely: Rework the unused frames first.

and my response was yes it is a detrimint because it drains health like crazy and reduces your armor. whats the dang point in touching a creddit booster, some cc, and that faint movement buff when it drains energy like a mother trucker along with that armor debuff? on top of that we have elemental ward that has shaky buffs on most parts poor range still on it, spectral scream with poor mod scaling on range and strength mods, and vex armor the only ability thats still holding up this makeshift raft.  

so he has 3 (4 depending on your perspective) abilities of varying needs of rework. yet you say they are reworking on frames that have the lowest percentage of usage?  so tell me why i should be start playing a frame like nezha when one i lost interest with him and two chroma and his new prime in design over shadow him, and three why should i touch a frame that is in the heart of a sensitive topic to the point were merely mentioning the set of words can get you banned.

oh don't get me wrong as there will be a chance i will pick him back up once and a while, maybe after i can get my salty disposition of him under control since he is one of the reasons there is no at the least decent rework of chroma, i just have a little bit of anxiety with him since watching region chat. and i was listing some of the reasons i play less of him. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb maddragonmaster:

, and vex armor the only ability thats still holding up this makeshift raft.  

Is it though? Considering that it is a poor excuse of rhinos kit with neather the armor nor the health of his augumented iron skin or even the squad compability of rhinos roar that gives the same results despise the lower numbers simply because it scales multiplicative...

That frame is literally drowning but in denial about it because he can still feel a little wood below his feet.

Edited September 30, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[maddragonmaster]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Is it though? Considering that it is a poor excuse of rhinos kit with neather the armor nor the health of his augumented iron skin or even the squad compability of rhinos roar that gives the same results despise the lower numbers simply because it scales multiplicative...

That frame is literally drowning but in denial about it because he can still feel a little wood below his feet.

note the (4 depending on your perspective) ?  i did put that in because there was some people mentioning that on this thread. yet others feel indifferent about it or find it at a argee able level.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb maddragonmaster:

note the (4 depending on your perspective) ?  i did put that in because there was some people mentioning that on this thread. yet others feel indifferent about it or find it at a argee able level.

Yeah but did you ever ask anyone just why that is? Sole reason he's still accepted is because he can still oneshot eidolon limbs, the same way rhino does (obviously since theyr offensive buffs are about equal)

No matter how bad he is aside from that

No matter how bad its utility is compared to rhino

It's a goddarn joke man.

Edited September 30, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108