Chroma needs a rework

[Acos]

I don't know about calling him weak; He is a very strong boi that is still preferred in Eidolon hunts. I just think he's boring as hell to play. Two of his powers are just mindless up-keep buttons, his first ability is useless, and Effigy is really situational and not necessarily even beneficial. 

Everything in Rhino's kit (since we're randomly comparing him to Rhino) does something different, unique, and useful. I like it when my video game asks me to think every now and then. 

[Ohmlink]

1 hour ago, Acos said:

 

There is a weird belief in this game about if it isn't the best option it's trash. Which in this case isn't really true.

It's also great when you bring up say, Chroma can give armor to allies the comparison will jump to how it doesn't matter because Oberon exists

[DarkRuler2500]

Greetings Tenno,
today I'd like to present (another) rework thread for

CHROMA

The True Draconic Knight

Issue: Chroma is mostly played on his 2nd ability (Elemental Ward) and 3rd ability (Vex Armor) to boost the outgoing damage and to minimize incoming damage through amplification. The 1st ability (Spectral Scream) and 4th ability (Effigy) are only rarely seen. Also most Chroma players tend to use HEAT and COLD as elemental alignment. ELECTRICITY or TOXIN are rarely seen because they are considerably weaker.

Goal: Rework the Chroma ability set to make all four alignments almost equal in power and to make all four abilities of Chroma being worth to have a build created around.

Spectral Scream

• Change: Damage is buffed to 200/225/270/350 from 100/125/150/200

• Change: Status Chance is buffed to 40/60/80/100 % from 40/45/50/60 %.

• New: Damage is increased by 25% for every second active
  (Damage boost affected by Power Strength)

• New: Damage is increased by 100% against targets who‘ve damaged Chroma within the past 5 seconds.
  Damage boost affected by Power Strength, Timer affected by Power Duration)

Afterburn

• New: Deals 300 elemental damage in a 4 meter radius when deactivating Spectral Scream.
  (Damage affected by Power Strength, Ability radius affected by Power Range

• New: Damage is increased by 25% for every second that was active. Explosion radius is increased by 0,2 meters for every second active.
  (Damage boost increased by Power Strength, Ability radius boost affected by Power Range)

Elemental Ward

• Heat

  • Change: Heat status chance increased to 50% on all levels from 2/5/7/10%

  • Change: Health bonus reduced to 50/70/90/120% from 50/75/100/200%.

  • New: Adds 2/3/4/5 health per second regeneration as long as affected.
    (Health Regeneration value affected by Power Strength)

• Cold

  • No changes, since its perfectly balanced in my eyes

• Electricity

  • Change: Arc will home into closest target now and can jump over up to 2 times.

  • New: Shield regeneration is constantly active with an 30/50/70/100% increase regeneration speed than normal as long as affected.

  • New: Forces a circular energy outbreak of 5 meters when shield is being depleted every 10 seconds and applies guaranteed electricity status effect to all enemies.
    (Explosion radius affected by Power Range, Cooldown unaffected by Power Duration)

• Toxin

  • Change: Enemies standing within Chroma‘s range will have their toxin status effect refreshed every second instead of being immune towards it until the duration ends.

  • Change: Reload Speed is buffed to 20/30/40/50% from 15/25/30/35%.

  • Change: Becomes a one-handed ability and can be recasted while active

  • New: Increases attack speed of melee attacks too while active for 10/15/20/25%.

Everlasting Ward

• No change, the effect is great!

Vex Armor

• Change: When entering the last few seconds of the ability Chroma‘s roar could be heard to warn from the running out.

• Change: Armor bonus now affects Kavat/Kubrows through their Link Armor mod as well

Vexing Retaliation

• Change: Explosion is triggered after taking 150 unmodified damage instead of modified damage. E.g. if you reduce the damage to 30 through your armor rating the explosion is triggered because the incoming damage was 150 to begin with.

• Change: Base explosion range increased to 5/6,5/8/10 from 4/5/7/9m

Effigy

• New: No longer spawns the Sentinel but instead causes energy wings to sprout from Chroma‘s back resembling those of the former sentinel for 10/10/10/10 seconds (Duration affected by Power Duration)

• New: While active enemies within 7/10/12/15 meters are more likely to attack Chroma instead of other allies. Chroma itself is 20/30/40/50% damage resistant in this state.

• New: Incoming damage is stored in a counter at the same position where Saryn has her spores and Nidus has his mutation stacks. When the ability ends the total amount of damage absorbed triggers a heat, cold, electricity or toxin explosion within 10 meters and deals the damage to all enemies within. Enemies killed by the explosion will drop a guaranteed health orb on death.

• New: While active movement speed is cut by 40% and bullet jumps are deactivated.

This new look was inspired by Kevin Glints fanart on DeviantArt (Link). This is how it could look ingame.

Detached Effigy

• New: Chroma no longer benefits or disadvantages from effigy base ability.

• New: Spawns the former Sentinel which now has the same effect as Chroma would have too. It taunts enemies within 5/7/9/12 meters to attack and absorbs damage and triggers it in a 7 meters explosion radius with a 50% less damage absorbed conversion.

• Change: The summoned sentinel will deal the stun and the normal attacks just like now as well but has its credit enhancement removed.

• Change: Armor is reduced by 50% and movement speed is increased by 20% just like now but additionally the parcour velocity and wall-latching time.

 

Thank you for reading (or scrolling) this far.
I really hope that Chroma is going to get some love rework soon and hope DE might consider it.

All values are of course my suggestions and it might be too strong or to weak. I leave that to DE for balancing.

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by DarkRuler2500

[hooperinius]

I like your idea for his number 4 except for the movement speed reduction.

IMHO Chroma has a lot of problems that come down to a confusion about what he is supposed to be. If he is supposed to be a buffer his abilities have terrible range and energy economy, if he's supposed to be a very strong tank then his armor doesn't protect him very well, if he's supposed to be a sort of status warrior he's no good at that either, so on and so forth...

Right now it seems like the only thing he is good for is people who want to solo eidolons, IIRC you can still do that with him if you stack enough power strength and duration.

 

 

[Dwarf_King]

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

This may be a bit late, but there's already a megathread for Chroma rework posts and suggestions, to which this thread will no doubt get moved soon. With that said, though, here are my thoughts on the above:

This could help the ability out, especially since Chroma has some defensive elements in his kit already, though I also don't feel that would resolve the core problem, which is that its damage feels weak, and it otherwise serves little function, not even for applying status. Personally, I think some of the most direct fixes that could help the ability out would be to raise the status chance to 100%, and either increase the base damage, allow it to benefit from Vex Armor's damage increase, or both. Giving the ability life steal would also allow it to be useful to Chroma, who desperately needs sustain, even with weak damage.

I can agree with this. Elemental Ward and Vex Armor are two buttons Chroma presses to gain a bunch of timed stats, and there's already a ton of overlap between the two, so it would make sense to combine them into the same ability.

 I very much agree that there should be synergy. I think overall it would benefit Chroma if his damage increase also applied to his own abilities, but on top of that, being able to do more things with the Effigy would make it feel more useful. Personally, I think it would help if using any ability would cause the Effigy to use it instead with a range increase, allowing Chroma to defend an area by proxy while doing his own thing. Because Chroma already sacrifices a ton of durability, I'd say he could lose the movespeed bonus from Effigy, but also the Energy drain completely, since he's already making a significant tradeoff.

This I think is a good idea. I think Chroma should be able to actively switch elements, instead of being stuck with just one for a whole mission, and that element of adaptation should allow him total control over all things elemental, namely damage types, status procs, and resistances. 

Thank you for your constructive response! I should clarify a little bit on the 1st ability, in which the hazardous zones created with spectral scream have heightened proc like oberon's hallowed ground, to allow for some cc options (allowing for a defensive option that isn't outright nuking a room with a vex armor ogris), also the idea of spewing lingering flames seems like a fun addition to chroma, which is what he really needs. A thing I need to clarify is that I meant to say that activating 1 while the 4 is active would turn it into the volley option, which would explain why the energy volleys would leave hazard zones just like the 1st ability would normally. and thanks to the element switching ability option, it should allow us to use any color we want on our chroma's, so our cosmetic choices don't directly link into how our abilities work (which is why we don't see stat altering melee skins anymore). This would also mean that chroma can get a new passive! Question is, what should this new passive be?

[Teridax68]

3 minutes ago, Dwarf_King said:

Question is, what should this new passive be?

This is a good question. Personally, I think it would make sense to put some bits of Vex Armor, or the entire ability, into his passive, so that Chroma gains power as he takes damage at all times, including pre-mitigation damage. Alternatively, an even more basic suggestion could be to make any enemy who attacks him receive a status proc, corresponding to his chosen element.

[Dwarf_King]

1 minute ago, Teridax68 said:

This is a good question. Personally, I think it would make sense to put some bits of Vex Armor, or the entire ability, into his passive, so that Chroma gains power as he takes damage at all times, including pre-mitigation damage. Alternatively, an even more basic suggestion could be to make any enemy who attacks him receive a status proc, corresponding to his chosen element.

Maybe, but knowing DE, they'd prob scale it down since it would cost no energy to cast, and make it like "It naturally decays unless you constantly take damage or kill things". Otherwise I'd like for something unique for a passive to really tie the whole package together like Harrow or Nidus's passives that can't really be put into ability form already, ya know?.

[Teridax68]

25 minutes ago, Dwarf_King said:

Maybe, but knowing DE, they'd prob scale it down since it would cost no energy to cast, and make it like "It naturally decays unless you constantly take damage or kill things". Otherwise I'd like for something unique for a passive to really tie the whole package together like Harrow or Nidus's passives that can't really be put into ability form already, ya know?.

I'm not sure if the lack of an Energy cost would necessarily push for the ability to be nerfed, though I agree that passives as a whole, including any passive Chroma would receive, should tie a frame's abilities together. An alternative to what I proposed above, for example, could be instead for Chroma to gain a resource based on the damage he takes, and for him to be able to use and consume that resource in certain ways to power himself up. This, for example, was a Chroma rework I proposed a little while back that would work under that principle.

[Dwarf_King]

7 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I'm not sure if the lack of an Energy cost would necessarily push for the ability to be nerfed, though I agree that passives as a whole, including any passive Chroma would receive, should tie a frame's abilities together. An alternative to what I proposed above, for example, could be instead for Chroma to gain a resource based on the damage he takes, and for him to be able to use and consume that resource in certain ways to power himself up. This, for example, was a Chroma rework I proposed a little while back that would work under that principle.

Essentially like atlas's rock collecting mechanic (with a nidus invulnerability)? I could get behind something like that, especially if for example you use vex armor ward (the name of our new 3rd here) and you die because you can't heal as it's active with the ice element and you can't switch in time or whatever the case may be, this would be fantastic as a means of keeping him in the game.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Dwarf_King
typo

[Galix]

So real talk,  I'll keep this short and sweet.  I know we just got Chroma Prime but can we get a slight buff and/or rework to the toxin elemental ward chroma?  I mean with Melee 3.0 weapon swapping is being super buffed in a sense so that effect on the toxin elemental ward is now voided for the most part.  However on a side note, the rest of the ability is reload speed, and a 5% max hp damage dealing toxin debuff on an enemy within a set 5M.  This is assuming though you have enough power strength for the Status % listed on the ability as well,  though that is a bit easier since it only requires 200% power strength to hit 100% chance.  And who honestly runs a low power strength chroma?  Btw if you do toss a link to your build color me intrigued. 

So to keep this short and to the point if it were possible could be get a replacement stat for the weapon swap, or just a full rework with the weapon swap and reload speeds in its entirety.  And last but not least if possible could we get that 5% toxin debuff a slight buff?  I know probably not the damage % itself because having that increased would kinda be a bit op but can we at least have that set 5M range on that debuff be subject to change with power range mods?

 

If anyone has better ideas I would also appreciate them as well.  My other thought was if the Toxin debuff was converted to corrosive or viral that might also be something interesting.  Having an aura that slowly chips away at an enemies armor value or and aura that builds up a viral proc to the point where it will effect the enemies within the range, halving their hp when you finally decide to drop them.  In either event the Toxin elemental ward needs a range buff of some kind preferably changed via range mods.

[seprent]

tweaks are in the future please be patient 

all i really have to say on the whole rework chroma debate 

all i can really say maybe toxin just adds toxin damage the weapons of people near by him and himself if i recall it buffs holster speed and reload speed as of right now

[Bipp]

I dont care what they do with it so long as it's a watered down version of some other frame's already existing ability/augment 👌

 

[Galix]

14 hours ago, seprent said:

if i recall it buffs holster speed and reload speed as of right now

yeah it does.

it also has that 5% toxin damage to enemies max hp like i stated above lol.

[Galix]

14 hours ago, Bipp said:

I dont care what they do with it so long as it's a watered down version of some other frame's already existing ability/augment 👌

 

hmm, yes...  quite..  do elaborate sir.  I'm listening lol.

[seprent]

3 minutes ago, Galix said:

yeah it does.

it also has that 5% toxin damage to enemies max hp like i stated above lol.

i feel max health damage would be excessive since any warframe abilities that did it is like 1-2% if i recall my history correct just 5% seems overkill the biggest one is oberons at 35% but that decided amounts his orbs so each orb does 5.8333% huh now that ive sat down and done the math doesnt seem that bad to me now if thats 1 orb to a enemy but that would be busted on a shotgun its following say Oberon logic its 5% per orb it gotta be 5% on the thing your hitting regardless of how many pellets hit so your not doing 5% per pellet since that would murder or close to murder anything pointed at it 

 

[Bipp]

10 minutes ago, Galix said:

hmm, yes...  quite..  do elaborate sir.  I'm listening lol.

Without derailing too much I'm really annoyed with the vex armour nerf.
Chroma went from an interesting rage tank that kept on chugging in high levels (talking level 100+) to a sappy team buffer.

In fact it was pre-nerf chroma that got me so interested in warframe's mathematics. I had calculated my build at the time could get to around 75k EHP with about 298% STR, Vitality, Primed Vigor and Ice ward iirc. Obviously even more if I had double arcane guardian (which I didnt at the time and still dont) or some other meme like health conversion.

That same build now has about 22k ehp which becomes even smaller when you factor in enemy damage types and armour bonuses (ESPECIALLY against corpus). Same goes for pre-nerf but at least then you also had some hefty damage output to help you keep up when even your defenses start struggling. They can't kill you if they're dead, right?

/shrug

Edited October 4, 2018 by Bipp
lol

[Galix]

14 hours ago, Bipp said:

Without derailing too much I'm really annoyed with the vex armour nerf.
Chroma went from an interesting rage tank that kept on chugging in high levels (talking level 100+) to a sappy team buffer.

In fact it was pre-nerf chroma that got me so interested in warframe's mathematics. I had calculated my build at the time could get to around 75k EHP with about 298% STR, Vitality, Primed Vigor and Ice ward iirc. Obviously even more if I had double arcane guardian (which I didnt at the time and still dont) or some other meme like health conversion.

That same build now has about 22k ehp which becomes even smaller when you factor in enemy damage types and armour bonuses (ESPECIALLY against corpus). Same goes for pre-nerf but at least then you also had some hefty damage output to help you keep up when even your defenses start struggling. They can't kill you if they're dead, right?

/shrug

yeah i can kind of relate.  But we all knew Chromas vex was mathematically doing calculations on the side and buffing not 1, not 2 but 3 elemental bonus' assuming you ran with sub-elements and lets face it everyone is running with sub-elements.  All in all though still a good frame however I personally have been branching out more and more towards Rhinos and Mirages.

[Galix]

14 hours ago, seprent said:

i feel max health damage would be excessive since any warframe abilities that did it is like 1-2% if i recall my history correct just 5% seems overkill the biggest one is oberons at 35% but that decided amounts his orbs so each orb does 5.8333% huh now that ive sat down and done the math doesnt seem that bad to me now if thats 1 orb to a enemy but that would be busted on a shotgun its following say Oberon logic its 5% per orb it gotta be 5% on the thing your hitting regardless of how many pellets hit so your not doing 5% per pellet since that would murder or close to murder anything pointed at it 

 

Well I guess it's a good thing the ability doesn't affect weapons then eh?  As I have mentioned though the 5% is probably fine but that set 5M range that is not affected by any mods period is kinda stifling.  Tack that on with the fact that the only other bonus you get is reload speed and a soon to be irrelevant weapon switching speeds...  It's no wonder no one uses toxin Chroma aside from the VERY niche builds that makes use of the swapping or reload.  I am fairly confident though that no one is using it for the given elemental effect.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

First of all, this post was beautifully designed. Second, I'd main this Chroma...

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

14 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

NOTE: If Chroma is complete and utter trash, worse than Oberon and/or the Operator with no mods/focus powers, then please ignore my thoughts.

Skimming through your post, as someone who uses Rhino but not Chroma, I have to say this: Chroma  is not just more difficult to build, he's freakin' difficult to use. I look at these people online who use Chroma to get ridiculous amounts of damage, and frankly, my Rhino can't do that, and I'm in awe. But I'm too stupid to use Chroma like them, which is why I stick to Rhino.

It's kind of like when I hear people say Octavia is better than Loki for invisibility, and my first thought is, yeah, but Loki only requires one button press to be invisible, Octavia has more advanced stuff to do for that, which I'm to stupid for.

Simplicity will draw people to frames, doesn't mean the "ignored" frames are not better. I can't comment on how good Chroma is when compared to Rhino, but if the videos online are anything to go by, he's better. He's just not simple enough for idiots like me. Takes investment. Does that mean he should be reworked? I dunno, does DE want Chroma to be used more? I feel like Chroma is better than Rhino to offset this low level of usage he gets. If he were easier to use, he would either be on par with Rhino (which would lead to "Chroma got nerfed" threads) or would just make Rhino terrible by comparison, and then people will want a Rhino rework, so this circle will never end.

i somehow feel as if that starting sentence is saying you believe oberon is trash...  if im wrong, than correct me please.   but my brother can list off several reasons as to why that is not the case with our resident satyrframe

 

EDIT as to contribute to the thread as a whole:   chroma himself is in a great place, fire and ice chroma are really powerful, while toxin and electricity could use a serious buff.  the only things he has that are wrong with him are the viability of his 1 and 4.   

if his 1 sent out a shockwave of whatever element he had active during the mission (kind of like an eximi unit) that would be cool.   i also think itd be sweet if his effigy functioned like nero's devil trigger from devil may cry.   a spectral version of chroma attacking on a delay of chroma himself.  so basically more dps

Edited October 4, 2018 by (XB1)Neon Lights9212

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Whats wrong with him being out damaged by rhino? Rhino should out damage him.

[GPrime96]

16 hours ago, scourge213 said:

Valkyr... not sure where to even start. Wukong can do the same things as her, just better.

Tell me what he can do better for the Squad?

[NoLazyShadow]

16 часов назад, Doomsknight сказал:

Can't blame DE for focusing on Melee3.0 and Fortuna, but usually DE will rework a frame when its Prime comes out yet they did nothing for Chroma Prime this time, which makes me feel bad for our poor dragon 😕

I had same expectations, when Valkyr prime was about to releace. " They'll adress her problems and make her stronger"...and they did nothnig. Same situation here.

 

16 часов назад, Doomsknight сказал:

Would love to see some Valkyr rework, too, can hardly see a Valkyr these days

Even I stopped playing her..there is no point. Hysterya is useless, Paralysis is useless without aug and i dont have slot for that, ripline is mobility tool only, CC part is broken ever since update 11...and overall melee is weak and not fun to use. Nezha is better in every way...

 

16 часов назад, scourge213 сказал:

-Valkyr... not sure where to even start. Wukong can do the same things as her, just better.

And unlike her he's getting rework...and i'm not sure if melee 3.0 will even touch melee frames or break them just like melee 2.0 break down Valkyr in update 13

Edited October 4, 2018 by NoLazyShadow

[(PSN)Vexx757]

1^st ability:

·       Increase the range from 10m to 15m.

·       Make it do continuous damage (like beam weapons) instead of damage a second.

·       By holding the fire button, you will increase its range, damage and cone spread.

·       Increase range when adding range mod to be more noticeable.

·       Fix: Elemental stream sometime not showing the right colour.

2^nd ability: Options

·       Whatever element chroma has equipped (toxin) will be added forced onto the weapons you are currently using or Increases status on weapons by 30%.

3^rd ability:

·       Increase damage on all abilities.

 

4^th ability:

·       Can be cast in the air.

·       After being cast press move on 4^th ability to move around on its own. Damage is increased but it won`t do any cc while on the move.

·       Fix: At the moment the range of the elemental stream is visually short.

[Koeboldt]

This is more a complete overhaul but, here's some Ideas I had. (note I hate the current effigy since it's lame and doesn't make me feel like a dragon. I'd rather be the dragon.)

• Elemental ward
  • Turn elemental ward into a barrier (similar to old warding halo in effect) you can apply to an ally that would potentially apply a buff to them along with blocking damage
  • When the barrier runs out of durability it explodes dealing Chroma's elemental damage type in an aoe around the initial target, along with a status proc.
  • This would enable Chroma to have a survival cool down he could use to aid his allies.
  • Could self cast but would function like Nezha's current halo with reduced effectiveness (due to vex armor) and be at a reduced durability as well.
  • Still thinking about this one, other option is buff electric and toxic by adding a %status chance to one and %crit chance to the other multiplicative of course since flat chance would be overpowered, the goal here would be keep ice and fire as the go to tank options and make toxic and electric be for damage dealing.
• Vex armor
  • Move the damage buff from vex armor to Chroma's 4th ability and replace it with the buffs elemental ward currently give based on element (hp, more armor, shields, and reload speed or something) this would make more sense for the ability.
    • Or tone down the damage buff so the amount gained is more in line with Rhino's roar and revert it to more or less the old system.
  • Keep the armor buff how it is, and make damage done to health apply the buffs listed above.
• Effigy
  • Chroma gains the elemental energy wings as shown in the Chroma prime codex entry.
  • Chroma as well as nearby allies get a damage buff for the duration as long as they are near Chroma, this damage buff would work similar to roar, but could potentially be a tad bit stronger since it requires you be close to Chroma for the whole duration.
  • Casting this ability cause Chroma to roar stunning nearby enemies (what his effigy currently does when summoned)
  • Elemental energy pours out of Chroma causing him to emit a damaging aura of whichever element he currently is using. Potentially acting like the ward effects, like the poison/fire aura, electricity arcs, and ice reflection (although it would make sense for ice to just slow nearby enemies).

Edited October 4, 2018 by Krankwagon