Chroma needs a rework

[Cibyllae]

I think a lot the issues people are having with chroma are sharing circles with other aspects of Warframe that have to be addressed before any of these things get sorted out. Namely the type of game or content Warframe is going to be, pve is different from raids is different from pvp is different from open world is different from bite-sized is different from endless is different from FTP is different from fashion is different from waifu collecter. The issue lays within the game modes of warframe, and the issue isn't having all these different game modes, the issue is that rewards are not evenly distributed among them. Doing some content is quite more rewarding than doing other content, and that's the problem with having some frames do well with specific content. Because having content that is not worth doing means that there are some frames not worth using.

In a perfect world you wouldn't need to frame hop every couple of months to be able to efficiently do the most rewarding content. Nor would you be able to take your favorite frame to whatever content is the most rewarding, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter (except for enemy level) what content you would play because they would all give equal rewards (except for level difficulty). The main rewards being kuva, endo, relics, arcanes, credits, and affinity (discounting special event rewards). Right now, kuva is the only balanced reward in terms of variety of games modes to get it from and is only limited by the availability of game modes present. Endo is dominated by nekros+nidus, credits is dominated by tank+buff frames and mesa, relics you go to onslaught because it is the ONLY mode that gives radiant relics and you take high aoe dps frames for that. Affinity you take Equinox or if you don't want to do that, onslaught. And then you have arcanes, the holy grail of rewards because of things like guardian and energize which sell for incredible amounts of platinum. And remember these used to be obtained from raids. That means at any point in the future, any way of obtaining these rewards could change drastically. So drastically as to bring such a frame that had no place to the tip top of a meta, and then had to be nerfed.  Why is this a problem? How are you going to design a tool if you don't know what job it needs to do? How are you going to design a frame when what the content the frame was designed for can become obsolete, not worth playing, no longer has the rewards that made it worth playing? Again, how are you going to design a tool when you don't know what job it needs to do? That's probably why we get so much overap in frame because if a warframe is to specific  in its play style it might become underused, or not used at all, too quickly after release.

 

There isn't a problem to having many metas, we have spy, defence, eidolon, capture, survival, the problem isn't that there are many metas, the problem is that some metas are not worth participating in. Which means there are some frames that are really good at what they do, its just that its not worth doing what that frame is good at. Effectively making that frame obsolete, because its ranking among the other metas is poor, and because of that is not used in those metas which it performs poorly in. Its not about making Loki good in onslaught, its about making Spy missions worth playing on the same level as onslaught. And at the core of this is time, because if every mission in the game were to hypothetically give the same rewards, then players who play market frame would figure out what mission types give the most rewards per 20 minutes. So if DE could make every mission give the same rewards and take the same amount of time, then I think we would start to see better designing of frame because then the developers who design the frames would be able to craft the frame towards a specific type of content and would also help with reworks like Chroma and Vauban. Whenever the community brings up issues that are specific, like issues with chroma and worries about his state within the game, it feels like im looking at a jenga tower whose foundation is on one wobbli boi, And the community is sitting there discussing  what top block to take off meanwhile no matter which topblock you take the whole thing is gonna come down because the root  of these issues are so much further underground. Is chroma's kit a problem? No, its a symptom of game that has no place for him and doesn't know what he should, needs, wants, to be. I'm sure there many ideas of what Chroma could be, but out of all of them I'm pretty sure "being usefull in a team in more ways and game modes than one" is high up there on the list. Every tool wants to be useful, but its not the tools fault when it has no problems it can solve or when there are no problems worth solving. A useless tool is not a problem, it is a symptom, of the problem, of having no problems available to solve. And if you don't know what problems lay ahead of you which need to be solved, how are you able to make effective tools? You run the risk of making a frame and having become obsolete the vary next day.

 

I think this stems from DE declaring that they need to pump out new content in order to bring back players. This new content is different by design, and changes up the meta in drastic ways that have these sorts of effects on frames and the metas they preoccupy. But Warframe needs that new content. So what do, idk, I don't fix problems I just point them out and complain.

Spoiler

just like all of you do

Spoiler

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Spoiler

jkilya

 

[maddragonmaster]

18 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

I think a lot the issues people are having with chroma are sharing circles with other aspects of Warframe that have to be addressed before any of these things get sorted out. Namely the type of game or content Warframe is going to be, pve is different from raids is different from pvp is different from open world is different from bite-sized is different from endless is different from FTP is different from fashion is different from waifu collecter. The issue lays within the game modes of warframe, and the issue isn't having all these different game modes, the issue is that rewards are not evenly distributed among them. Doing some content is quite more rewarding than doing other content, and that's the problem with having some frames do well with specific content. Because having content that is not worth doing means that there are some frames not worth using.

In a perfect world you wouldn't need to frame hop every couple of months to be able to efficiently do the most rewarding content. Nor would you be able to take your favorite frame to whatever content is the most rewarding, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter (except for enemy level) what content you would play because they would all give equal rewards (except for level difficulty). The main rewards being kuva, endo, relics, arcanes, credits, and affinity (discounting special event rewards). Right now, kuva is the only balanced reward in terms of variety of games modes to get it from and is only limited by the availability of game modes present. Endo is dominated by nekros+nidus, credits is dominated by tank+buff frames and mesa, relics you go to onslaught because it is the ONLY mode that gives radiant relics and you take high aoe dps frames for that. Affinity you take Equinox or if you don't want to do that, onslaught. And then you have arcanes, the holy grail of rewards because of things like guardian and energize which sell for incredible amounts of platinum. And remember these used to be obtained from raids. That means at any point in the future, any way of obtaining these rewards could change drastically. So drastically as to bring such a frame that had no place to the tip top of a meta, and then had to be nerfed.  Why is this a problem? How are you going to design a tool if you don't know what job it needs to do? How are you going to design a frame when what the content the frame was designed for can become obsolete, not worth playing, no longer has the rewards that made it worth playing? Again, how are you going to design a tool when you don't know what job it needs to do? That's probably why we get so much overap in frame because if a warframe is to specific  in its play style it might become underused, or not used at all, too quickly after release.

 

There isn't a problem to having many metas, we have spy, defence, eidolon, capture, survival, the problem isn't that there are many metas, the problem is that some metas are not worth participating in. Which means there are some frames that are really good at what they do, its just that its not worth doing what that frame is good at. Effectively making that frame obsolete, because its ranking among the other metas is poor, and because of that is not used in those metas which it performs poorly in. Its not about making Loki good in onslaught, its about making Spy missions worth playing on the same level as onslaught. And at the core of this is time, because if every mission in the game were to hypothetically give the same rewards, then players who play market frame would figure out what mission types give the most rewards per 20 minutes. So if DE could make every mission give the same rewards and take the same amount of time, then I think we would start to see better designing of frame because then the developers who design the frames would be able to craft the frame towards a specific type of content and would also help with reworks like Chroma and Vauban. Whenever the community brings up issues that are specific, like issues with chroma and worries about his state within the game, it feels like im looking at a jenga tower whose foundation is on one wobbli boi, And the community is sitting there discussing  what top block to take off meanwhile no matter which topblock you take the whole thing is gonna come down because the root  of these issues are so much further underground. Is chroma's kit a problem? No, its a symptom of game that has no place for him and doesn't know what he should, needs, wants, to be. I'm sure there many ideas of what Chroma could be, but out of all of them I'm pretty sure "being usefull in a team in more ways and game modes than one" is high up there on the list. Every tool wants to be useful, but its not the tools fault when it has no problems it can solve or when there are no problems worth solving. A useless tool is not a problem, it is a symptom, of the problem, of having no problems available to solve. And if you don't know what problems lay ahead of you which need to be solved, how are you able to make effective tools? You run the risk of making a frame and having become obsolete the vary next day.

 

I think this stems from DE declaring that they need to pump out new content in order to bring back players. This new content is different by design, and changes up the meta in drastic ways that have these sorts of effects on frames and the metas they preoccupy. But Warframe needs that new content. So what do, idk, I don't fix problems I just point them out and complain.

  Reveal hidden contents

just like all of you do

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( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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jkilya

 

god its headach trying to figure what your saying. cut to the point.  don't draw out your dam sentience to make yourself feel like an expert.  i am not sure if your talking about whether warframes making content that doesnt work or your just talking about it not being rewarding enough

Edited September 18, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

1 hour ago, Cibyllae said:

I think a lot the issues people are having with chroma are sharing circles with other aspects of Warframe that have to be addressed before any of these things get sorted out. Namely the type of game or content Warframe is going to be, pve is different from raids is different from pvp is different from open world is different from bite-sized is different from endless is different from FTP is different from fashion is different from waifu collecter. The issue lays within the game modes of warframe, and the issue isn't having all these different game modes, the issue is that rewards are not evenly distributed among them. Doing some content is quite more rewarding than doing other content, and that's the problem with having some frames do well with specific content. Because having content that is not worth doing means that there are some frames not worth using.

In a perfect world you wouldn't need to frame hop every couple of months to be able to efficiently do the most rewarding content. Nor would you be able to take your favorite frame to whatever content is the most rewarding, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter (except for enemy level) what content you would play because they would all give equal rewards (except for level difficulty). The main rewards being kuva, endo, relics, arcanes, credits, and affinity (discounting special event rewards). Right now, kuva is the only balanced reward in terms of variety of games modes to get it from and is only limited by the availability of game modes present. Endo is dominated by nekros+nidus, credits is dominated by tank+buff frames and mesa, relics you go to onslaught because it is the ONLY mode that gives radiant relics and you take high aoe dps frames for that. Affinity you take Equinox or if you don't want to do that, onslaught. And then you have arcanes, the holy grail of rewards because of things like guardian and energize which sell for incredible amounts of platinum. And remember these used to be obtained from raids. That means at any point in the future, any way of obtaining these rewards could change drastically. So drastically as to bring such a frame that had no place to the tip top of a meta, and then had to be nerfed.  Why is this a problem? How are you going to design a tool if you don't know what job it needs to do? How are you going to design a frame when what the content the frame was designed for can become obsolete, not worth playing, no longer has the rewards that made it worth playing? Again, how are you going to design a tool when you don't know what job it needs to do? That's probably why we get so much overap in frame because if a warframe is to specific  in its play style it might become underused, or not used at all, too quickly after release.

 

There isn't a problem to having many metas, we have spy, defence, eidolon, capture, survival, the problem isn't that there are many metas, the problem is that some metas are not worth participating in. Which means there are some frames that are really good at what they do, its just that its not worth doing what that frame is good at. Effectively making that frame obsolete, because its ranking among the other metas is poor, and because of that is not used in those metas which it performs poorly in. Its not about making Loki good in onslaught, its about making Spy missions worth playing on the same level as onslaught. And at the core of this is time, because if every mission in the game were to hypothetically give the same rewards, then players who play market frame would figure out what mission types give the most rewards per 20 minutes. So if DE could make every mission give the same rewards and take the same amount of time, then I think we would start to see better designing of frame because then the developers who design the frames would be able to craft the frame towards a specific type of content and would also help with reworks like Chroma and Vauban. Whenever the community brings up issues that are specific, like issues with chroma and worries about his state within the game, it feels like im looking at a jenga tower whose foundation is on one wobbli boi, And the community is sitting there discussing  what top block to take off meanwhile no matter which topblock you take the whole thing is gonna come down because the root  of these issues are so much further underground. Is chroma's kit a problem? No, its a symptom of game that has no place for him and doesn't know what he should, needs, wants, to be. I'm sure there many ideas of what Chroma could be, but out of all of them I'm pretty sure "being usefull in a team in more ways and game modes than one" is high up there on the list. Every tool wants to be useful, but its not the tools fault when it has no problems it can solve or when there are no problems worth solving. A useless tool is not a problem, it is a symptom, of the problem, of having no problems available to solve. And if you don't know what problems lay ahead of you which need to be solved, how are you able to make effective tools? You run the risk of making a frame and having become obsolete the vary next day.

 

I think this stems from DE declaring that they need to pump out new content in order to bring back players. This new content is different by design, and changes up the meta in drastic ways that have these sorts of effects on frames and the metas they preoccupy. But Warframe needs that new content. So what do, idk, I don't fix problems I just point them out and complain.

  Reveal hidden contents

just like all of you do

  Reveal hidden contents

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  Reveal hidden contents

jkilya

 

You definitely have some valid points, and it's certainly creeping (just like the power) upon the game with each new update, but to DE's credit, they've kept this boat afloat for 5 years when people said it wouldn't make it out of the dock. And sure, there have been plenty of holes that required a LOT of duct tape, and there are still bugs in some of the quarters, but the developers captaining this boat haven't seemed to stop yet.  Now, obviously, to keep up with all the newly sprung leaks (and problems that became problems after other problems got fixed..) it requires a lot of attention, caution, and adaptation on the developers part. If you're familiar with the ecological concept of the Red Queen hypothesis it relates a lot here, the basis of the hypothesis is: you have to constantly be running in order to keep up (constantly be adapting in order to evolve). 

I think that for the most part, DE is still managing the content decently. Though with railjack on the way and fortuna, its true that their resources could get a bit too spread thin but until then, us, the passengers aboard the ship can only wait, watch, and attempt to give feedback (even when it's not always wanted). What you point out is certainly correct, but I dunno if this is the forum post to discuss it in. I am attempting to address issues with one frame within the aspect of the current meta and changes that could help it. Will it need to be addressed again further down the line when this game shows its jenga-ness again? Yup. Are there bigger more important symptoms to address? UH YEAH DUH, but I don't know enough to be able to help in that regard, so I'll trust DE can do their best as always to address that on their own terms.  As it stands, I'm just trying to do my part to weigh in my opinion on one of the many holes I may be able to find a way how to patch 😂 

[maddragonmaster]

ok now i am lost isn't this so pose to issues about chroma and not wordy paragraphs to pages about various issues  and history about warframe? 

as to me chroma seems to have his abilities require too much of certain stats. 

1st requires range, strength, and efficiency.

2nd requires strength, duration, and range.

3rd requires strength, duration , and range.

4th requires efficiency, duration, and strength.

see the problem? and then theres the need for a crapton of energy

Edited September 18, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[Gerbah]

Just sorta posting my feedback of the frame in general here, not responding to anyone in particular. Just my thoughts on Chroma (who I would say is my favorite design, conceptually and visually)

He does need quite the change. He is still EFFECTIVE currently, sure, but he's rather boring. Essentially, he's a frame with a lot of 'stats': a damage increase and a massive armor boost. But not much else.

I'd say rework everything except maybe Vex Armor (and even then, touch it up a bit: an audio cue for when it is about to expire would be very welcome!). His 1 is really neat on paper, but is just bad: any weapon can deal more damage from longer range, so it is always just worse than shooting your target. 2 is pretty good, for some elements. Electric and poison seem far less effective than the others: Shields don't benefit from Vex Armor, which is rough. And weapon swap speed is extremely situational (reload isn't terrible, but compared to "Buncha free health" or "buncha armor/reflection", not great).

4 is the BIG one I'd change, it feels so "not cool". I don't want to summon a thing that fights FOR me, I want to be BETTER at fighting if anything! That and the penalty for even using it (besides the energy cost) is reduced armor: making him more of a liability and encouraging cowardly gameplay by hiding and letting the effigy fight for him, which seems very counter to the rest of the frame. A lot of people have suggested a 'fly mode' like a slower, bigger Titania. I think that could work just fine! Either make it a set duration so it isn't up 'all the time' or energy drain. Could even not be able to 'fly' but maybe just hover off the ground. Would make it feel pretty awesome to go all Dragon Mode on fools.

Actually thinking about it, combining his 2 and 3 would be pretty perfect. An Elemental Vex Armor, basically, freeing up another slot for something more impactful. Would be cool to have a claw slash or flying charge attack, something straight to the point to deal a bunch of damage: maybe even allowing it to refresh Vex Armor, or provide Health drops/life steal? Would encourage him to stay 'in the thick' of things and be a tank.

 

Rambling, I know, but just wanted to throw my voice out there that I think Chroma should get some fun gameplay tweaks!

[MrTitan123]

Okay. What is this like, the eleventy-fourth Chroma rework thread? Whatever. This is my take on how he should be reworked. I don’t want anyone to get mad or anything, I just wanna give my ideas. I would have spent this time making a revenenant feedback thread, but with his current changes I no longer have a raging hate-boner. So without further ado, here are my ideas.

 

Passive: Chroma’s passive isn’t actually a passive. More like a central mechanic. It just says that Chroma can switch his energy color for different elements. There’s no actual passive effect. So here’s what I recommend: depending on chroma’s current element, all of his attacks have a small chance (I don’t know how the variables work so I’m just saying that) to inflict a status effect of that element. (Fire proc, electric proc, toxic proc, cold proc.)

 

1. Spectral scream is really, really awkward to use. It feels really weak in combat and has no reliable use. Right now, it’s main use is inflicting mild damage and status effects. So, let’s change it to something more versatile. The community for a long time has requested that Chroma be able to change elements on the fly. So be it. Spectral scream is now “Elemental Wheel”. Elemental wheel now functions like quiver or minelayer with a cycle function. Tap to cycle selected element, hold to apply the selection and deal a small radial blast of elemental damage. To make this somewhat useful at higher levels which players are definitely going to try and take him to, the radial blast will penetrate a solid 50% of enemy armor. Maybe it could be affected by power strength, idk.

2. Elemental ward is pretty ok, but the buffs and range are all kind of underwhelming. Currently, only two elements are actually useful; Fire and Ice. Let’s fix that. In addition to emitting a damaging aura while active, the various elements will provide useful buffs.

Fire - Give a health bonus and a passive 5 Hp/tick regen. Emits a damaging fire aura that has a chance to deal fire procs. Good for keeping you and your team alive.

Electric - Gives a boost in shields, shield regen, and sprint speed. Emits a damaging electric aura that pulses every few seconds, dealing an electric zap and arcing to other enemies up to a certain distance. Good for crowd control.

Ice - Gives a boost in armor and gives minor damage reduction. Bullets bounce back at the attacker when attacking chroma’s health only. Teammates get the damage reduction, but not the armor, or the bullet deflection. Emits a damaging icy aura that slows enemies and has a chance to freeze them solid. Geared for  tanking or melee.

Toxin - Gives a boost to weapon damage, Fire rate, reload speed. melee speed, and weapon switching. Emits a damaging toxic aura that deals damage over time to any enemies nearby. Geared toward offense.

 

3. Vex armor is actually pretty good. Could be a bit better, but that’s just in terms of numbers. Functionally, it’s fine where it is. Although, I would like a bit of a warning signal when it’s about to expire.

4. Effigy is pretty solid, but could use a few changes to accompany the above changes. Effigy will now mimic the element Chroma selected when the pelt is placed. Effigy will produce buffs identical to the active buff if elemental ward is activated. So if Chroma is out running around with his pelt off, allies can still take advantage of elemental ward’s buffs by staying near the pelt. This does not interfere with everlasting ward, as allies must get near Chroma himself to receive the buffs.

 

Well, that’s about all I can suggest for Chroma. A little altered numbers, changed mechanics, better buffs, and a touch of complete ability overhaul,(COUGHspectralscreamCOUGH) And Chroma will be good as new just in time for his prime release.

[GrimAtrament]

why not add a passive buff to his passives? like having the buffs from elemental ward be part of his passive (since his current passive is basically a non passive. equinox basically has his passive and her own.) then boost up the elemental ward damage?

[Ozamchist]

Why not exponentially bump up spectral screams range and have it either scale off weapons, or be directly customizeable?

Edited September 18, 2018 by TermiteFrame

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Forum mods why? Why combine all these threads and make them jumbled messes? Guess DE is sending a pretty clear message that they're done trying to deal with the issue, guess I might as well be too... well I cant start thinking like what they want me to now or nothing will ever be done but still, what a $&*^ move, really sends a bad message out there to the community...

[Sajochi]

19 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

Forum mods why? Why combine all these threads and make them jumbled messes? Guess DE is sending a pretty clear message that they're done trying to deal with the issue, guess I might as well be too... well I cant start thinking like what they want me to now or nothing will ever be done but still, what a $&*^ move, really sends a bad message out there to the community...

Forum mods do it when there are a bunch of threads with a similar topic. Has nothing to do with the devs directly. I don't like it very much too, but put the blame where it belongs. 

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

7 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

Forum mods do it when there are a bunch of threads with a similar topic. Has nothing to do with the devs directly. I don't like it very much too, but put the blame where it belongs.

Are forum mods volunteers or hired by Digital Extremes?

[Sajochi]

4 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

Are forum mods volunteers or hired by Digital Extremes?

 They're volunteers

[Fallen_Echo]

I never liked chroma, nor the looks nor the powers looked like something i would use. He was just a frame who was about numbers on the screen and nothing more, once i ranked him to 30 i shelved him.

After some month i took another look at him and made the conclusion that without those high numbers chroma is nothing, bad first, bad second, bad third, horrible ult (personal opinion on all) the only saving grace he had was the numbers he could create with those skills.

 

Now that i look at him, hes got nothing. Absolutely no reason to pick him up and in fact if he wouldnt be a quest frame i might have sold him already.

Its a shame what happened to him because what was essentially a high quality rolls-royce engine in an old Lada is now an old Lada without an engine.

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

47 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

 They're volunteers

Guess I'm just really nettled with justifiable frustration that I have no where to place. I'm glad you pointed out that it's true in that the developers/company have little influence over the moderators it's just a shame that they herd all the posts into a big conglomerated mess all the time, it just makes the topics way harder to follow. At best it seems like them lazily not wanting to properly balance topics or at worst feels like suppression.

But I digress, this is supposed to be a post about chroma so I'll get back on topic, er, topics now I guess.

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

10 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

ok now i am lost isn't this so pose to issues about chroma and not wordy paragraphs to pages about various issues  and history about warframe? 

as to me chroma seems to have his abilities require too much of certain stats. 

1st requires range, strength, and efficiency.

2nd requires strength, duration, and range.

3rd requires strength, duration , and range.

4th requires efficiency, duration, and strength.

see the problem? and then theres the need for a crapton of energy

Making Effigy duration based instead of efficiency would solve the problem honestly, because Spectral Scream being channeled benefits from both efficiency and duration. Regardless of if they switch his 1 and 4 like suggested, making effigy duration based I now believe to be crucial to fixing chroma's kit. 

The crapton of energy portion will be bandaided by his prime which I can deal with for now, but ultimately the problem needs to be addressed in future patches.

[(XBOX)AM LAWLESS]

Chroma rework I feel you should think about 

 

Stance switching frame:

1st ability stays the same but now has two abilities like vauben mines. While still using the breath it now increases in damage from absorbed damage. Second part of ability is switching between elemental stances 

Ice: chance to freeze melee attacks from enemies 
Fire:chance to burn projectiles and reduce damage
Poison:chance to debuff enemies in range
Electric: chance to stun enemies 

Effigy: is now duration based 
Debuffs enemies 
Also increasing the affects from the first ability 
Chroma also retains all armor gains while within range of effigy

ps I want Pablo to do 

[Lior55]

16 hours ago, hazerddex said:

is having something like this for either his 4 or 1 to much to ask for?

 

 

or idk this? 

Sir. Just Yes. You are amazing. A saint. True. Meaningful. DE give this man or woman a prime access! Give me Dark Eater Chroma pls.

[Lior55]

 

On 2018-09-15 at 12:02 AM, Lior55 said:

4. Effigy - Now has an added large Buffing Aura I like to call Dragon's Presence that is not affected by range mods. It's a decent 30 meters. It is Duration based (60 seconds default). The problem with this ability is that you sacrifice survivability for speed. If Vex Armor is active then the radius around Effigy carries it's own Vex Armor with the same reflected stats as Chroma's Vex Armor. It buffs allies with the Vex Armor and stacks/doubles for Chroma himself. It draws aggro much better and still roars and all that good stuff. When you cancel Effigy or if it dies, it self destructs doing the same amount of damage as it was dealt. The damage is affected by Vex Armor and your passive. The element of the explosion is dependent on your attunement.

Dragon Presence effect

Fire - Radial Heal (HPS affected by power strength)

Ice - Slows incoming enemies by 40%

Toxin - Increases Status and Crit chance on ally weapons 40% (affected by Power Strength but caps at 100%) 

Electricity - Shield Regen (Affected by Power strength) 

You need to be in radius to gain the affect of the Effigy. It does not have a sticky affect.

@[DE]Pablo can you AT LEAST make Chroma's Effigy duration based and give Effigy it's own buffs to go with the rest of the kit to support allies? Also Please give him his tankiness back and the sticky buff treatment for allies. No one sticks around him to appreciate his buffs most of the time.

[Soketsu]

Oh my ♥

Diddn't expect this thread to survive, usualy only the regular "nerf this *insert popular build of the moment here*" do this.

 

Perhaps this time after so many years it might give the chance to finally have a real passive XD. I don't hope for each ability usable but something than color determine the element, thing that equinox do it better x)

[Cephalon_Baphoma]

On 2018-09-14 at 1:58 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im buying access... Looks amazing! Chroma is in a great spot as is.

Me too. But he's no where near in a good place. Sure by the old standard he's fine, but with reworks like Nezhas... it just further shows me chroma needs love. Chroma needs to be brought up to the new standard. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Cephalon_Pestilence:

Me too. But he's no where near in a good place. Sure by the old standard he's fine, but with reworks like Nezhas... it just further shows me chroma needs love. Chroma needs to be brought up to the new standard. 

I dare say that he's not even good by old standarts due to how poor his abilities overlap... the current vex armor buff literally makes him a bad rhino and there's nothing in his kit to make up for it. Not his effigy that could easily be a duration based AI rather then the stationary mess of a channel it is now, not the waste of energy his EW is and definitly not... what was his first again? Idk since i never used it since i got him.

His broken ARMOR calc was the only thing that worked for him at all. Now he's just a horrible frame with a unreasonable build up.

Edited September 18, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

Would be time to dig up my old thread but nah.

Passive: element alignment gives % bonus to that stat, PLUS innate health regen.

He's a dragon, they could probably shed or something. It makes sense. 

1: Just make it a CC and can change elements

2: maybe combine with 3 with original stats?

3: since combined with 2 uh effigy?

4: dragon mode.

Bam fixed chroma

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

Still better than what he is right now. Though not really my ideal Chroma rework. I had a thread like a year ago. Might dig it up soon

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Spoiler

Hey everybody, posting this again as a repub because my last one was absorbed into another chroma thread and I figured, to keep the discussion focused on this particular rework suggestion, that it would be less confusing to just remake this post. Plus I don't want to distract from the separate topic that my post was (for some reason) shoehorned into, because it did not relate to reworking Chroma like my suggestion here.  I don't think this is considered spam, so be kind and don't report pls, I just want to talk about my feedback without the conversation veering to far off topic.

I know DE will likely take awhile to update Chroma, but I figured that since his prime is right around the corner I might as well post my thoughts on fixing my most played frame. I'll try to keep the majority concise with details listed in "spoiler bubbles" for those of you wanting more in depth analysis. I know I am asking a lot here, and I don't honeseyl think he needs ALL these changes, but this outline is my ideal Chroma, something I've been thinking about and processing since I picked him up. Without further ado let's get started!

PASSIVE: 

• Remove current restrictive passive and replace it with a triple jump (using effigy's wings).
• On third jump, Chroma receives a substantial aim-glide boost.

We can all agree that Chroma's current passive, ISN'T (or at least shouldn't be considered) A PASSIVE! It is SO restrictive, not only in a game-play sense, but more importantly it nerfs Chroma's true end-game potential: his fashion. I believe that a unique solution to this would be giving him something that makes Chroma feel much more dragon-like (via a tripple jump). Sure I've seen plenty of damage boosting passive suggestions and things that relate to elemental ward, but in my opinion, Chroma doesn't need more damage, he needs something that sets him apart, something fun. My proposed changes to Spectral Scream will play a part in making this more than just a gimmick but I'll go more into detail about that further down. 

SPECTRAL SCREAM:

• Now draws aggro in a fixed 15m range.
• Allow's weapon use (at least melee) if it remains a first ability.
• While aim-gliding, Spectral Scream costs half as much per second and will always reach ground level.
• When Spectral Scream makes contact with the floor it leaves an elemental trail (similar to Nezha's firewalker) based off duration. Trail deals damage per/sec equivalent to Spectral Scream and possesses status chance.

It has been discussed that Chroma's 1 and 4 could be swapped with proper stat adjustments in order to fit leveling progression. I am highly in favor of this change. Below are some hypotheticals to make Spectral Scream strong enough to be a 4th ability (or be implemented into the ability as current, as it stands I don't think it would be too overpowered if the stats were correctly balanced) (Suggested by: maddragonmaster ).

• Damage and/or Status Buff (it's current damage is negligible if it changes to a 4th ability).
• Have the ability be able to be channeled with the trigger button (similar to Revenant's 4th).
• While channeled, Spectral Scream gains range but looses width, becoming a death beam (very similar to Dark-eater Midir from Dark Souls 3 laser beam, suggested by: hazerddex ).
• While channeled, Spectral Scream gains a damage and status chance boost.
• While channeled, Spectral Scream gains the same ramp up mechanic seen in beam weapons (damage boosts over time, status boosts over time).

For awhile now, people have wanted a way for Chroma to effectively crowd manage, as he depends on enemies targeting him to gain more power, the issue is, he possesses nothing in his kit to allow him to do so. Making Spectral Scream draw aggro not only solves this, but also benefits his light support role on a team (chroma tanks damage that he benefits from and takes the pressure of more squishy teammates). Now, I believe that it should be a fixed 15m range that stacks with Guardian Derision, but that's just me. I think too much aggro draw would be overkill or OP ( but hey I can't play test so  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   ). 

Now, the reason I think Chroma's passive should include an aim-glide buff is simple: I wanna feel like a dragon when I play a dragon frame, and what better way to express that than FLYING OVER YOUR ENEMIES, RAINING ELEMENTAL FIRE DOWN UPON THEM FROM THE HEAVENS AS THEY ATTEMPT TO RETALIATE IN VAIN AT YOUR MIGHTY AND IMPENETRABLE HIDE, LEAVING NOTHING BUT DEATH IN YOUR WAKE!!! Now, in order to achieve this I think a couple things are in order: 

1. Spectral Scream has to cost half as much per second while airborne (as to encourage it's use in air)
2. The fire (beam, projectile, dragon vomit?) ALWAYS has to reach the ground when aim-gliding since warframes can reach some pretty astonishing heights. In addition, there should be an elemental trail in case ya missed some baddies 

I think these changes would help make Chroma's 1 less useless, or at least more satisfying to use. As it stand currently, the ability both lacks functionality and fun, at least one of these issues would be addressed with these fixes. Also, the ability is based off of DRAGON FIRE, and therefore should be very powerful. This relates to some suggestions wanting Spectral Scream to become Chroma's 4th ability, which, I think I'm in favor of for a few reasons. 

1. With my proposed effigy changes, as well as it being duration based, it would encourage players to use effigy's support/ CC options early on as to get a better understanding and general feel for how the ability works and when to use it. As long as the stats were reduced accordingly (but not too harshly) this would work out well.
2. Progression wise, it makes sense to have the hard hitting CC ability dedicated to the 4th ability slot.
3. Like I said, dragon fire (elemental breath/vomit?) is supposed to be really powerful and therefore is more fitting as a 4th ability. This would also justify it being buffed to incredible levels to make it more fun.
4. For those of whom want a "dragon mode" or exalted ability on Chroma, this is the closest thing to making that somewhat of a reality without giving him an entirely new ability. Plus, with my proposed aim-glide changes, it practically would be a PERMANENT (long as you have energy) "dragon mode"

There has been discussion about swapping Chroma's Spectral Scream and Effigy in terms of where they are in his kit, making effigy a bit weaker (or keeping it as is because it currently is, in all honesty, rather pathetic or at very least underwhelming), but spectral scream MUCH stronger by comparison. Obviously the first step in making this work (if this is the path to take) is to ramp up the damage and status chance significantly at base, just to bring it on par with a standard 4th ability. I recommend Chroma be able to channel this ability, similar to how revenant channels his 4th. This channeled "scream" would not only buff damage and status at base but also narrow its width to increase its range and become a killer beam that possess's beam weapon properties in that it ramps up damage and status over time. This just seems like tons of fun. And if I get to "fly" with my passive and buff it with my vex armor? Man I would never want to change frames it'd be great!

ELEMENTAL WARD:

• Utilizes a "holster" mechanic (think Ivara's quiver, Vaubaun's landmines etc.) allowing user to switch between elements.
• Everlasting Ward integrated into ability, replaces augment with: Elemental Touch: adds 60% status chance and 60% element damage according to current elemental buff.
• Toxin: Remove holster rate buff and replace it with Status immunity (credit DeadlyCreation)
• Electricity: Reduce total amount of shield given and allow charge speed and recharge delay to be boosted by power strength. Give's a modifiable movement speed buff (for place holder I'd say staring at 15% would be good). Electricity procs from Arch charges chain stun enemies (not as powerfully or as far as Volt's 1, but functionally similar). 

Spoiler

EVERY Chroma player wants a holster mechanic for elements. I cannot stress enough how much people want this to be a thing as it would improve all aspects of this frame's kit, because it number 1, removes the dumb restrictiveness of his current passive, number 2, allows Chroma to react better to situations where different elements would be more beneficial than just one of four, and number 3 WON'T RUIN MY FASHIONFRAME (i'm not gonna get over it). Now ideally, this would allow Chroma to recast Elemental ward and swap up the element at any point allowing the player to better react to certain situations at the cost of energy, but I recognize that this could seem a bit broken considering the fact that I am proposing everlasting ward is integrated into the ability. Ultimately play testing is the only way to know for sure how it might work out (at worst I think just making it so that every time Chroma switches elements he has to play tag with his teammates to reapply the buff, until then, the teammates elemental ward is on its own independent timer from when they were first tagged). 

I see no reason as to why Everlasting ward isn't standard on the ability. It forces Chroma players who want to support teammates to either play super close to each other if they want at all decent duration (since it's not recastable), or sacrifice the power of the buff by investing in range, therefore missing the point of having teammates be affected by it anyway since the buff is minuscule. inb4 bUT mUH BuiLD VariEtY!!1! There is no point in variety if what you have to sacrifice eliminates the effectiveness/objective of the ability in question. Yes Everlasting Ward is a mod and makes you consider what to work around in your build, but ultimately the augment doesn't change how the ability fundamentally works/plays, it simply makes what the ability does in the first place not as much of a hassle to achieve. Everlasting Ward is a QoL bandaid and should be replaced with something that alters how Elemental Ward functions like a proper augment.

As it stands, Electricity and Toxin are by far the least used of Chroma's elements. This is mostly due to the fact that Toxin gives no boost to a tanks tanky-ness and that shields are not a super reliable form of staying protected functionality wise. To help solve these issues I believe Toxin should grant status immunity similar to Negation Swarm. This would give toxic Chroma some additional forms of tanking outside of simply absorbing damage and would make him on par with Inaros, Rhino and Nehza. Now I can recognize the balance issues regarding Elemental Ward being a team buff, so at worst, simply allow the Toxin elemental to act like a really powerful Rapid Resilience mod. As far as electricity is concerned, Shields have never been the most effective way of negating damage. Because of this, if a tank oriented frame is to take the most advantage of them, a form of pseudo-shield gating would be the best way to go imo. Having the total amount of shields reduced in favor of allowing a faster recharge rate and recharge delay would mean that Chroma is gaining synergy with vex armor as well as making shields a tad more useful. This would also encourage more build variety with mods like Fast Recharge, Fortitude, or Arcane Aegis finally giving some better reasons to add these rather niche items to your build.  Now, I don't think that would be enough for electricity in higher levels as damage gets so high your shields are one-shotted anyway so the movement speed is there to help counter this. Being able to run away quickly when your shields are gone is extremely important to their functionality. Plus, if it would stack with Effigy's speed boost, it would allow Chroma to be much more mobile than he currently is which in a game like Warframe, is always important. In addition, I think that electricity should be primarily focused on CC. Having the arch charges target groups of enemies, or chain like Volt's 1 would be a far better alternative to the current, dump a ton of damage on a random bystander play-style it is now. CC also synergizes with the fact that shields simply don't offer reliable tanking, so stunning enemies briefly while you make an escape with added speed seems like a great balance. 

VEX ARMOR:

• Strike a balance between the current armor calculation and the new armor calculation, we can agree that the previous calculation was a bit busted, but the nerf was too critical to Chroma's identity and therefore I believe adjustments need to be made. 

Spoiler

It's no surprise that Chroma got hit hard in update 22 when edilons were being one-shotted and as salty as I am, I can agree that the damage aspect of vex armor should remain nerfed. HOWEVER the armor calculation was hit REALLY HARD, unnecessarily so. I can understand the concerns of balance since vex armor is now a team buff, but Chroma is more than half of what he used to be and cannot survive even a fraction as much as before (there are plenty of videos that display this, if you want examples, let me know). In all honesty, this ability needs the least amount of work, but it just seems too lackluster and doesn't allow him to scale nearly as far into the late game as it used to and I think that should be addressed.

EFFIGY:

• While active, modifies Chroma's base sprint speed to 1.20, in addition to the 20% movement speed buff.
• Ability becomes duration based as opposed to channeling.(credit: Xydeth)
• Elemental Ward and Vex Armor buff's now apply to effigy.
• Will register as it's own entity while in Interception zones, allowing the pelt to capture and hold zones independent from Chroma.
• Guided Effigy integrated into ability, replaces augment with: Guardian Effigy: aiming over a downed teammate revives teammates at 30/45/60% of the normal revive speed (credit: Sintag)

Unpelted Chroma should be fast to make up for such a blow in his tanky-ness, adding a sprint speed modifier helps more in this regard. Perhaps the movement speed buff could be modified by power strength like Saryn's Molt (base chroma does require Saryn parts after all *wink wink*)  but either way, the more speed the better in my opinion.

I think that Chroma really shines in interception missions when built for effigy. I think that allowing Effigy to act as it's own entity when capturing zones would further increase Chroma's usefulness in these missions, and further establish his niche in the meta. This would be ESPECIALLY beneficial as Chroma is primarily considered a solo frame, it would make soloing these mission types way more bearable and maybe even enjoyable. 

Similar to what I discussed above in the Elemental Ward section, I believe Guided Effigy should be a standard aspect of the ability because it is primarily QoL and maintains practically the same functionality as base Effigy, just more streamlined. When Effigy is not instructed to hold a position or charge, I believe it should follow you similar to a sentinel (that way it's like a mobile CC companion, I mean can you think of the possibilities?) The replacement augment has a functionality we haven't seen in a frame before and changes the play style of the ability, making Chroma more support leaning, INCREASING build variety instead of reducing it. 

 

Well I think that sums it all up, hope you enjoyed my little tangent on my once favorite frame. PLEASE comment below any ideas or feedback! I'd love to discuss the possibilities for this frame as I can see his kit could really go anywhere (or continue the discussion from last time before it got moved to another thread...)

Here's to the hope that DE registers Chroma feedback post prime!

Edited September 21, 2018 by Oni_Spartan4

[VarianStark]

I think they should fuse his first augment mod in and his 4th augment mod. No reason they should be seperate.