I really like how Pablo reworks and balances Warframes

[Levanthan]

Frames [DE]Pablo either designs or reworks take in deep consideration the RNG nature of Warframe's energy economy without the mandatory use of energy consumables, a pocket Trinity, Zenurik, and whatever other external optional energy sources that exist in the game and in most cases, are prime candidates for Rage and Hunter Adrenaline. They also have a sense of synergy that doesn't punish the player for not using the provided combination at all times by being the objectively superior flowchart, but rather offer different tools for different circumstances. Then there's the pacing. Bar Harrow and Nidus(for understandable reasons described later), the frames promote and encourage the fast pace combat and action times that Warframe as come to represent. No 2.5 second charge times or needlessly long animations. Nidus and Harrow don't follow that rule because of their naturally defensive and scaling roles.

Nidus is looking for long duration missions where he can camp a spot of his choosing for a lengthy period of time while Harrow is a large proximity support with a lot of kill potential and scaling damage buffs. And on the note of long duration capability, he fully recognizes and designs around Warframe's ridiculous scaling. Damage multipliers and damage mitigation percentages are used very frequently, as is necessary for abilities to have any sort of scaling properties with how enemies currently scale. I can't think of one skill on any of the frames he's worked on recently that I'd say is redundant or falls off in usefulness past the star chart. 

This post isn't to flame the other frame devs, but to highlight what I consider to be healthy design decisions that fully take into consideration the mechanics of the game and tries to make a kit that's fun for the player to utilize rather than a kit that the player has to wrestle against to make useful in order to minimize frustration. Oh, and UI elements representing and notifying the player of the core mechanic of the frame that needs to constantly be tracked is always nice. The artist(s) who create them are lovely.




TL;DR: Pablo frames have optional use synergy and innately good energy economy despite the RNG nature of Warframe's energy economy and mandatory use synergies segmented to look optional. Pablo frames are new and veteran player friendly. I'd like Pablo frames to be the standard.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by Levanthan

[therealDG]

Can we get a warframe named Pablo?

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

42 minutes ago, Levanthan said:

- Snip - 

Amen brother.  Its why I'm super hyped for the Nezha rework whenever it hits ConsoleFrame.  He fixed most of my beefs with the frame full stop.

I wish he'd take over Booban as well.  We all have the right to dream yeah?

[EinheriarJudith]

all the devs at Digital Extreme's are hard workers. this disgusting display of praise should stop. nezha barely needed any work done in the first place. any of them could have made these changes.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

all the devs at Digital Extreme's are hard workers. this disgusting display of praise should stop. nezha barely needed any work done in the first place. any of them could have made these changes.

What are you talking about, everything about Nezha was completely outclassed, now he has a tank ability that’s on par with other frames, a speed booster that doesn’t annoy teammate (looking at you volt!), one of the few abilities that drastically increase the spawn of health and energy, and a lot of good synergies and QoL that not only improves his position in the tier list but puts him in a unique category.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

What are you talking about, everything about Nezha was completely outclassed, now he has a tank ability that’s on par with other frames, a speed booster that doesn’t annoy teammate (looking at you volt!), one of the few abilities that drastically increase the spawn of health and energy, and a lot of good synergies and QoL that not only improves his position in the tier list but puts him in a unique category.

1. animation speed up, to duration from channel

2. health orbs from healing pulse

3, DR from invincibility, new ui

4, synergy with 2 animation speedup

does that look like alot of work was done? the skills are virtually the same.

[Femuru]

6 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

all the devs at Digital Extreme's are hard workers. this disgusting display of praise should stop. nezha barely needed any work done in the first place. any of them could have made these changes.

he literally just said "This post isn't to flame the other frame devs, but to highlight what I consider to be healthy design decisions that fully take into consideration the mechanics of the game and tries to make a kit that's fun for the player to utilize rather than a kit that the player has to wrestle against to make useful in order to minimize frustration." not everything is about hate he just wanna show his appreciation to pablo and i see nothing wrong with that. everyone have their own strength and weaknesses and yea should all be appreciated but pablo was able to address a issue some players had on some frames.  

also as for nezha not needing any tbh thats just yur opinion thats fine and so is everyone else to theirs thinking nezha was a bad frame. it wasnt just 1 or 2 ppl who thought nezha was bad and they barely changed his playstyle and can pretty still do the same thing as before and to most opinion he does it even better now.

idk why all the hate but i see no problem in players just saying thanks to a developer who just putting his end of the work. he dint say anything bad about anyone else nor did he implied ill intent to anyone else but if u have yur own issues with the reworks i mean saying yur own voice on the forums is a thing on that certain topic and no need to go bite other players for being happy.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

That aside Saryn will probably get Miasma nerfed to LoS because of how OP she is.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

1. animation speed up, to duration from channel

2. health orbs from healing pulse

3, DR from invincibility, new ui

4, synergy with 2 animation speedup

does that look like alot of work was done? the skills are virtually the same.

May I point out that the last frame rework that wasn’t headed by Pablo was Vaubans passive and laughable Tesla changes. Compared to that, these are like the holy grail of changes, not to mention this is a REVISIT not a REWORK meaning the abilities won’t change, but their functions will be improved. And that’s exactly what these changes were. I mean he made blazing chakram actually worth casting. I can’t even top that. He made a completely worthless ability great.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

That aside Saryn will probably get Miasma nerfed to LoS because of how OP she is.

They stopped reworking her after those last spores changes. Going back at this point would be beating the dead horse that is Saryn reworks.

[Ozamchist]

Also he was always fast (understatement on multiple levels) and suprisingly durable, and not a whole lot of work needed to be done on him.

On the other hand Pablo does deserve praise (honestly the large majority of DE staff is praise worthy) his frames and reworks do stand out, although his second Saryn rework wasn't super necessary and didn't change to much (she still improved from it) and if you actually played Nezha regularly he wasn't all that outclassed or even comparable by many of the frames he was often compared with, but he had a noticeable clunkyness to his kit.

[EinheriarJudith]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

May I point out that the last frame rework that wasn’t headed by Pablo was Vaubans passive and laughable Tesla changes. Compared to that, these are like the holy grail of changes, not to mention this is a REVISIT not a REWORK meaning the abilities won’t change, but their functions will be improved. And that’s exactly what these changes were. I mean he made blazing chakram actually worth casting. I can’t even top that. He made a completely worthless ability great.

mag and ash's reworks were done by? oberon's rework was done by? if the op wanted to give thanks he wouldnt be singling out one dev simple as that. im pretty sure DE frame devs were also listening pretty closely when they were making changes to revnant which will probably get more changes. they are all working hard to make the frames balanced and enjoyable to play.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb EinheriarJudith:

zephyr's rework was great. sure there are some issues with airburst but blazing chakram has poor enemy tracking.

Tailwind plays poor in any kinda game type except open world. Tornados could've had theyr velocity lowered or just made to pick up and hold enemies so yeah, it was kinda great but really not.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb EinheriarJudith:

Chroma was broken and DE fixed it. there needed to be no compensation. DE admitted he was broken and also said they want to go back and do a proper rework.

He was indeed broken and fixed but he wasn't really in a situation where this wouldn't break him to begin with beeing a tanky brawler with some crazy build up and stat requirements. This rework should've come with a decaying mechanic or some massive duration buffs if nothing else.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb EinheriarJudith:

valkyr can be played many ways. this is your opinion of her but i play her best as eternal war and without the use of hysteria. its called options.

Where's the befefit there over volt? I play volt the same way i play valkyr only that valkyr doesn't have the extra electricity status, passive that adds even more status (got toxic on my weapon that's switching to corrosion on contact!) nor the support, ranged damage or even defense compared to volts freely refreshable overshields and ES. The sole benefit is that my valkyr got a better power economy on a kit where one can't use the extra power for anything at all. Truth is that she's eather a worse volt or a frame where you can sacrifice everything, including the sole benefit of playing melee, the damage, to be invulnerable.

You sure didn't but i do say that he's doing a fantastic job compared to how they've worked so far.... basicly like they're only doing things by statistics and not because they actually know why they're doing things.

Edited September 15, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Levanthan]

5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

mag and ash's reworks were done by? oberon's rework was done by? if the op wanted to give thanks he wouldnt be singling out one dev simple as that. im pretty sure DE frame devs were also listening pretty closely when they were making changes to revnant which will probably get more changes. they are all working hard to make the frames balanced and enjoyable to play.

Two out of three frames you mentioned took at least a year after their initial rework and lots of head bashing from the playerbase to have some/most of their issues addressed. Oberon only took about two months but that's only because the forums, reddit, and Warframe youtube were pretty much set on fire to, in some cases, highlight that his rework was actually a set of nerfs and for the most part, just extremely mediocre.  Revenant still requires changes and player input even though this has been given en masse even before his release, but admittedly, so did Harrow. I want frames to be good and not take the community setting all communication channels on fire in order to get that result. I want DE to have a strong cohesive game so I can play and have fun rather than play and try to minimize frustration that I'm getting from the game. I think it's safe to say that holding a button for 2.5 seconds only to use up 2x more energy for 2x more damage on a linearly scaling damage ability in an exponential scaling game is both frustrating and deceptive in providing a false sense of choice. Not to mention that this is on a premiere damage dealing caster frame.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Also, yes. I vot for having Pablo rework every Warframe❤❤

[WhimsicalPacifist]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

[Re:  Valkyr]

Where's the befefit there over volt? I play volt the same way i play valkyr only that valkyr doesn't have the extra electricity status, passive that adds even more status (got toxic on my weapon that's switching to corrosion on contact!) nor the support, ranged damage or even defense compared to volts freely refreshable overshields and ES. The sole benefit is that my valkyr got a better power economy on a kit where one can't use the extra power for anything at all. Truth is that she's eather a worse volt or a frame where you can sacrifice everything, including the sole benefit of playing melee, the damage, to be invulnerable.

You sure didn't but i do say that he's doing a fantastic job compared to how they've worked so far. Otherwise they probably wouldn't work like they're only doing things by statistics and not because they actually know why they're doing things.

Great point.  Volt does too many things and infringes on other frame's territory.  He should be rebalanced accordingly.  Change his shields to Duration and health-based and make them scale with his HP pool.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb WhimsicalPacifist:

Great point.  Volt does too many things and infringes on other frame's territory.  He should be rebalanced accordingly.  Change his shields to Duration and health-based and make them scale with his HP pool.

True, and while i consider this to be a plenty balanced strength of his due to how low his stats are set, i agree to his shields. I'd like a rebalance for him rather then a straight nerf though.

Duration and health are fine for his shields but it shouldn't be anything but health and the channeling cost if he's carrying it. That's the one thing about him i consider to be straight up BS.

Edited September 15, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Dragazer]

7 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

mag and ash's reworks were done by? oberon's rework was done by? if the op wanted to give thanks he wouldnt be singling out one dev simple as that. im pretty sure DE frame devs were also listening pretty closely when they were making changes to revnant which will probably get more changes. they are all working hard to make the frames balanced and enjoyable to play.

Sorry m8, but Pablo just does it better with his work.

Many other reworks/Frames not done by Pablo (Ex. Mag, Ash, Oberon) were borderline garbage needing several months of changes until their problems were addressed.

Pablo's Frames/reworks were good right out of the box only needing minor tweaks.  

Now I just hope he is in charge of the possible Chroma rework for the prime release or else we might end up with some trash like the recent Vauban "rework"

Edited September 15, 2018 by Dragazer

[Sloan441]

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Name a successfull mmo that effed theyr classes up that bad and lived to tell the tale. Go ahead.

 

World of Warcraft. 

Blizz generally screws up shamans and warriors with every expansion. They usually fix warriors. Shamans...well...not so much. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Sloan441:

World of Warcraft. 

Blizz generally screws up shamans and warriors with every expansion. They usually fix warriors. Shamans...well...not so much. 

That game has been around for like...what? 10? 15 years? And i've been among the top 3 Dd's in my guild for like what? 5? 8? Playing shaman.

Not that i'd know about.

Does he do like 1/10 compared to other classes with no survivability, healing or support these days? Cause that's the extend we're talking about here.

Edited September 15, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Sloan441]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

That game has been around for like...what? 10? 15 years? And i've been among the top 3 Dd's in my guild for like what? 5? 8? Playing shaman.

Not that i'd know about.

Does he do like 1/10 compared to other classes with no survivability these days? Cause that's the extend we're talking about here.

I was top server ranked as an enhancement shaman during several expansions. Trust me, Blizz screwed up shaman repeatedly. You could count on it. Some times were worse than others and we had a brief shining moment in Cataclysm, but...the point stands. 

Past that, I have no idea what you're going on about. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 39 Minuten schrieb Sloan441:

.

Past that, I have no idea what you're going on about. 

I'm going on about how any nerf or rebalance in a game like WoW makes a difference of like 10-15% at most between similar roles. Any differences are justified with secondary functions like support or self sustainability what includes shaman as example.

 

There just isn't a situation where you have something like a meta aside from squad balance that's made of a selected few, no def warriors that beat most DD's, no mages that do more and more efficient AoE then rogues do singletarget damage, nothing that's easily 10 times better then anything else the way it is here. Such games usually die out rather fast.

[Klokwerkaos]

12 hours ago, Levanthan said:

Frames [DE]Pablo either designs or reworks take in deep consideration the RNG nature of Warframe's energy economy without the mandatory use of energy consumables, a pocket Trinity, Zenurik, and whatever other external optional energy sources that exist in the game and in most cases, are prime candidates for Rage and Hunter Adrenaline. They also have a sense of synergy that doesn't punish the player for not using the provided combination at all times by being the objectively superior flowchart, but rather offer different tools for different circumstances. Then there's the pacing. Bar Harrow and Nidus(for understandable reasons described later), the frames promote and encourage the fast pace combat and action times that Warframe as come to represent. No 2.5 second charge times or needlessly long animations. Nidus and Harrow don't follow that rule because of their naturally defensive and scaling roles.

Nidus is looking for long duration missions where he can camp a spot of his choosing for a lengthy period of time while Harrow is a large proximity support with a lot of kill potential and scaling damage buffs. And on the note of long duration capability, he fully recognizes and designs around Warframe's ridiculous scaling. Damage multipliers and damage mitigation percentages are used very frequently, as is necessary for abilities to have any sort of scaling properties with how enemies currently scale. I can't think of one skill on any of the frames he's worked on recently that I'd say is redundant or falls off in usefulness past the star chart. 

This post isn't to flame the other frame devs, but to highlight what I consider to be healthy design decisions that fully take into consideration the mechanics of the game and tries to make a kit that's fun for the player to utilize rather than a kit that the player has to wrestle against to make useful in order to minimize frustration. 




TL;DR: Pablo frames have optional use synergy and innately good energy economy despite the RNG nature of Warframe's energy economy and mandatory use synergies segmented to look optional. Pablo frames are new and veteran player friendly. I'd like Pablo frames to be the standard.  

So pablo is the ideal but I would caution making bold statements to put a frame into like you did with Harrow and nidus.  I'm a nidus main with 70% at over 2k hours.  While the design is geared that way, the beauty is you don't have to use it that way to be effective.  If anything nidus is more effective the way i use him in 99% of missions which isnt that.

I agree though Pablo should be the designated rework guy 99% of the time.  He's good at that by a lot.  People like his designs, they are fun to play and they tend to do most, if not all of the things people want from them.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[felixsylvaris]

Fanboyism is an infestacion and need to be purged, we need to buff Ember for just scorching stupid ideas.

At some point DE Pablo will make a mistakes, or the changes will be not enought or something. So do not get too exited.

That being said, Saryn and Nezha was a nice job. Looking forward to future.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb felixsylvaris:

Fanboyism is an infestacion and need to be purged, we need to buff Ember for just scorching stupid ideas.

At some point DE Pablo will make a mistakes, or the changes will be not enought or something. So do not get too exited.

That being said, Saryn and Nezha was a nice job. Looking forward to future.

Pretty sure that one was censored so i say it again: Pablo did make misstakes allready.

Saryns rework did have a self spread on release and didn't decay in eso later, difference to anything else so far though was that it was rebalanced immediatly after people and probably he himself got to test it.

That's the fine difference between his work and anything else we had so far... it's not only that his work is on spot, it also gets adjusted pretty fast should it not be. He does make misstakes but actually admits to it and does what's best. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108