"Tapping your Quick Melee button will bring out your melee weapon completely"

[Mokkun108]

How about additive critical on slide, maiming and blood rush stacking? They have no intention to rework those?, but instead focus on things such as quick melee which was well-functuining in the first place.

I never use stances and they are only for increasing mod capacity. I don't want to use stances no matter what change they're getting. If quick melee gets removed I'll never use melee weapon again. 

Stances = Slow = Death

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Mokkun108

[LupoDWolf]

On 2018-09-15 at 11:06 AM, Ada_Wong_SG said:

Am I the only one who switch to synthesis scanner on melee-only sortie ?
Just because how much stances are counter-intuitive as you would want your attacks to be 
consistent instead of jamming up suddenly when you pressed the melee button a couple of time ?

You interrupted your melee attack in stance while being completely exposed to an enemy only to be butchered ?

I mean I use Nikana a lot, most of the time the quick melee "windscreen wiper" cuts is all you need to keep on
whacking on an enemy. Switching to Tranquil Cleave will not be able to allow excess of 10 - 20 cuts without you being jammed into an combo animation.

Especially useless for stance is when we use Berserker build, this is dynamic attack speed change. 
No amount of practice would adequately allow you to pace combo attack when you have a melee weapon
that changes attack speed and you need to keep watching out the buff icon time to have the slightest idea.

funny, i love nikanas and use a berserk build i use full stance mode a lot 
blind justice heeding call is so fun with a lot of AS

[Dragazer]

My biggest issue with this possible change is that I rebinded my melee attack to left click in melee mode, which might end up getting ruined with this change. 

[DrBorris]

At first I found it funny when people were using Melee 2.0 as a baseline of reasoning for judging Melee 3.0 features. It is like they are reworking all of melee, making comparisons to current melee, the one that will no longer exist, pointless.

 

It is like if in the lead-up to Parkour 2.0 people were saying that +movement mods would be useless because the movement system they currently had was bad. Who would have thought that when DE completely reworked movement that the new movement mods were *shock* good.

To compare that to things said in this thread: "I don't want to use the new melee combos because the current melee combos are bad". Like... what? The logic, WHAT ABOUT THE LOGIC.

 

But now it is just getting sad. This is a NEW system with NEW mechanics that will make a NEW meta. Assume everything is changing because, drumroll please, it is going to change. Please, for the love of RNGesus, stop comparing it to the old system.

 

Edit: One more comparison. Imagine someone saying that they refuse to use an Android smartphone because the Android they used 10 years ago was horrible. I can imagine most would harshly judge someone if they said something like that.

Edited September 16, 2018 by DrBorris

[Teridax68]

I feel the problems mentioned in the OP aren't directly related to the feature being discussed. Sure, stances feel bad and lock players in animations, but they're getting reworked. Hopefully, this should mean that they'll impede less on the player's movement and also be possible to cancel, and if not, then that should be something to fix directly anyway. Personally, I really like the idea of being able to transition fluidly between melee and ranged (hopefully pressing the fire button should transition to a ranged weapon just as easily), and so support the idea, I just hope it comes with all-around improvements to fluidity in melee combat.

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2018-09-15 at 8:51 PM, WhiteMarker said:

The new system will be just like quick-melee.
Tapping E brings out your melee in an instant. Just like it is now. Tapping or holding LMB will bring out your Gun in an instant.

It does not sheath it instantly, and that's the problem. And it means I am compeled to use E as my melee button and can't have more option, include m1 as melee button on sword alone.

 

Do your homework first, pls. Don't jump to conclusions.

As if you give anything to me? I didn't expect such rude behavior, sir.

 

[Guest]

I have nothing on Melee 3.0 except I prefer the hold "F" to change to melee. Come on man rebinding it to E to bring out melee instead of keeping quick melee would be a disaster. Just make the Quick Melee use the E combo or something.

[DroopingPuppy]

Well, if it is AN ANOTHER OPTION to switch to the melee weapon, it is very interesting change actually. The problem is, it seems simply replace our current mechanism. You know, give a new option is nothing wrong and even helpful, but throw away what someone has is not a wise plan at all.

[DroopingPuppy]

12 hours ago, Dragazer said:

My biggest issue with this possible change is that I rebinded my melee attack to left click in melee mode, which might end up getting ruined with this change. 

That's exactly what I fear, for I did it as well. Only for one swing only press F once is enough, but if you want to fully swing the melee weapon all the times you need to move the attack button to the mouse or your left hand(or right depend on your favorate hand) have to make attack and move at once, which is so annoying.

[Julian_Skies]

3 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

It does not sheath it instantly, and that's the problem. And it means I am compeled to use E as my melee button and can't have more option, include m1 as melee button on sword alone.

 

As far as I saw in the devstream, it does in fact sheath instantly, to the point people are saying weapons just teleport to your hands.

[Darkmatt3r]

it's not even out yet and people losing their mind saying its a horrible idea. That's what I said when they were planning the bubble rework which turned out to be fine.
Calm downey and wait for it.

[DroopingPuppy]

59 minutes ago, Darkmatt3r said:

it's not even out yet and people losing their mind saying its a horrible idea. That's what I said when they were planning the bubble rework which turned out to be fine.
Calm downey and wait for it.

If you wait without a word, the fear may come true(I admit that it is possible that it may not come true, of course, but no one would sure about this). It is meaningful because we may warn it if the problem is correct. I think that overreact seems better than sit idle, because if it is once delivered we will have too much impact, and even if it is no more than unfounded fear all we can suffer is having the thread like this, nothing more.

Consider the opportunity cost, I don't think that say nothing is the better choice. It is always the worst option we have, actually, regardless of the topic. You know, I didn't gone so far like as 'I will quit the game if it comes to the reality' or do something bad more than this, isn't? So I don't think that I did anything wrong, nor what have I done is actually making a negative result - not even a single glitch.

Edited September 17, 2018 by DroopingPuppy

[Loza03]

17 hours ago, DrBorris said:

At first I found it funny when people were using Melee 2.0 as a baseline of reasoning for judging Melee 3.0 features. It is like they are reworking all of melee, making comparisons to current melee, the one that will no longer exist, pointless.

 

It is like if in the lead-up to Parkour 2.0 people were saying that +movement mods would be useless because the movement system they currently had was bad. Who would have thought that when DE completely reworked movement that the new movement mods were *shock* good.

To compare that to things said in this thread: "I don't want to use the new melee combos because the current melee combos are bad". Like... what? The logic, WHAT ABOUT THE LOGIC.

 

But now it is just getting sad. This is a NEW system with NEW mechanics that will make a NEW meta. Assume everything is changing because, drumroll please, it is going to change. Please, for the love of RNGesus, stop comparing it to the old system.

 

Edit: One more comparison. Imagine someone saying that they refuse to use an Android smartphone because the Android they used 10 years ago was horrible. I can imagine most would harshly judge someone if they said something like that.

Not going to lie, I agree. Especially when people say "I don't want to use combos because they restrict my movement" when combos will be tied to whether or not you are moving. It seems reasonable to assume that combos that activate when you are moving will not restrict movement.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Not going to lie, I agree. Especially when people say "I don't want to use combos because they restrict my movement" when combos will be tied to whether or not you are moving. It seems reasonable to assume that combos that activate when you are moving will not restrict movement.

That assumption is easily disproved by what's in the game right now. Take a dagger, the equip stinging thorn stance, then use the forward moving spam combo. Notice how your character does a bunch of stupid pauses interrupting your forward movement?

Take a longsword, give it crimson dervish (which I hate because it's so damn slow, but that's another matter entirely) and use the back movement combo. Notice how you're not actually moving backward but instead doing a bunch of twirly crap?

Give it swooping falcon instead and try the forward combo. After a couple of swings, notice that *drumroll*... you're not going forward and instead doing yet more twirly crap. Or try the basic combo and note how it roots you to the spot which is obviously an EXTREMELY bad idea in this game. This stance also has the problem of overwriting the quick melee swings with its own impractical crap.

Or how about a hat trick for poor old longswords - give it vengeful revenant and then do the forward combo. Watch your frame highlight the inequality of modern society with a beautiful interpretive dance routine. Notice how the Corpus don't give a flying crap about that, actually like the way in which Nef Anyo gets all the money and they get none, and decide to riddle you with laser bullets in the middle of THIS POINTLESS UNSKIPPABLE CUTSCENE.

What every single one of these things has in common is that quick melee is fast and practical, and stanced melee is full of useless twirly crap. One of them lets you engage and disengage at will, the other will cause you to stunlock yourself and get killed as a result. One of them is just fine the way it is, the other is not used for very good reasons.

 

This game has a very long history of terrible ideas getting implemented and then being left to fester for months or years on end. The only realistic way to prevent this is to stop it before it starts. Getting melee ruined by being forced into stance mode would be a terrible idea.

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

That assumption is easily disproved by what's in the game right now. Take a dagger, the equip stinging thorn stance, then use the forward moving spam combo. Notice how your character does a bunch of stupid pauses interrupting your forward movement?

Take a longsword, give it crimson dervish (which I hate because it's so damn slow, but that's another matter entirely) and use the back movement combo. Notice how you're not actually moving backward but instead doing a bunch of twirly crap?

Give it swooping falcon instead and try the forward combo. After a couple of swings, notice that *drumroll*... you're not going forward and instead doing yet more twirly crap. Or try the basic combo and note how it roots you to the spot which is obviously an EXTREMELY bad idea in this game. This stance also has the problem of overwriting the quick melee swings with its own impractical crap.

Or how about a hat trick for poor old longswords - give it vengeful revenant and then do the forward combo. Watch your frame highlight the inequality of modern society with a beautiful interpretive dance routine. Notice how the Corpus don't give a flying crap about that, actually like the way in which Nef Anyo gets all the money and they get none, and decide to riddle you with laser bullets in the middle of THIS POINTLESS UNSKIPPABLE CUTSCENE.

What every single one of these things has in common is that quick melee is fast and practical, and stanced melee is full of useless twirly crap. One of them lets you engage and disengage at will, the other will cause you to stunlock yourself and get killed as a result. One of them is just fine the way it is, the other is not used for very good reasons.

 

This game has a very long history of terrible ideas getting implemented and then being left to fester for months or years on end. The only realistic way to prevent this is to stop it before it starts. Getting melee ruined by being forced into stance mode would be a terrible idea.

What's in the game now has literally nothing to do with the new system. So demonstrating all the current stances that mess up your movement achieve nothing (aside from showing how much the system needs to change), because all of these are being changed at the same time. Melee 3.0 combos are, as far as we know, coming with melee 3.0 weapon switching. Thus, this being a bad change in the current environment will never be relevant.

I'd recommend you take a second look at Devstream 114. When they first show off the stationary and movement and block combos, you can clearly see that the stationary combo and block combos have full-body animations, acrobatics, your 'interpretive dance routine' and all that. When they start moving though, that changes and now the animations only affect the upper body or otherwise have you still moving whilst using these attacks, and they also use faster, more practical animations. 

This is certainly true of heavy blades, where they take steps to show it. From observation, I can see that this is true for the Dual Dagger stance they showed off, as the flashier moves always followed the gap-closer or had no movement. When they were demonstrating tonfas, it was less clear, but it seems that it's true for those too. And they showed it clearly for claws as well. Should they have been more clear with daggers and tonfas? Yes, but they still demonstrated that more practical and less restrictive melee from forward momentum is absolutely going to in melee 3.0

Basically, they've taken this extremely valid complaint into account when designing the new system.